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1602

 
  

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sleazenation
06:41 / 15.08.03
So, its finally out - what do people think?
 
 
Mr Messy
10:15 / 15.08.03
Undecided. I liked bits of it - the Queen's dream was typical Gaiman - but mostly it seems to me to be just another spin on the marvel universe. Is it possible to do something interesting and new with these characters anymore?
Yeah. Felt a bit tired.
 
 
Spaniel
11:43 / 15.08.03
My considered opinion? Bloody boring, with rubbish art.
 
 
Catjerome
12:30 / 15.08.03
I had fun reading it, but I felt like it was too much of a checklist of "who's who from the Marvel U" (eh, I have the same complaint about Elseworlds stories). If it had been focused around a specific set (only the X-Men, e.g.), it might have been tighter, but there were just so many people to highlight that it got a bit scattered.

The artwork was glossy, and not just because of the printing. Everything in that world seemed neat and tidy. I get the impression that there should have been more dirt in 1602. All the folks in this were so clean and scrubbed. I'm not sure if this is something that could've been addressed in the art or if it's a result of the art style itself.

It was a good set-up, though. It actually reminded me a lot of the first part of Heart of Empire - introducing all of the characters and implying some mysteries behind them, hinting at an overarching Very Big Thing, and beginning slowly to tie all of the characters together.

Think I might wait for the trade, though. Too expensive for my tastes in pamphlet form, and in the trade I don't have to put up with the Hulk telling me to drink milk.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:52 / 15.08.03
I kind of liked it. Not earth-shattering, but it piqued my interest enough to pick up more. Kubert's art was better than the hideousness of he and his clones art in Ultimate X-Men, but still lacking in oomph. I expected to hate it more cos of my built in anti-Gaimanism. (Gaiman bashing?)
 
 
sleazenation
15:32 / 15.08.03
The cheaper price seemed to be one of the title's selling points to me - I had been expecting some kind of prestige format nonsense. The art looks very charles Vess-like not a bad thing at all.

But while I'm sure many will defend this as a well written romp in the marvel universe transferred to the elizabethan England, I wasn't really impressed by the spot the character game, and I'm still not convinced that this isn't another age of apocalypse redux. I also felt that I'd prolly feel more disappointed if I paid money for it... Still it is for a good cause so, maybe next week...
 
 
NotBlue
18:47 / 15.08.03
So, is it worth the price, or worth enduring the ordure of FP to read?
 
 
NezZ the 2nd
19:02 / 15.08.03
Having not read much Gaiman before, I thought this was pretty good - not great. I liked the characters that were used. I don't really expect them to be too different to current incarnations, this may dissapoint some people. It is the unusual settings which interest me. And on the art is really good, if u liked the style of origin then this is pretty similar. I will however be buyin the trade when it comes out.
 
 
hypersimulation
21:00 / 15.08.03
After blonde, blue-eyed Native American Captain America showed up, I spent the rest of the comic giggling 'this is SO gay' like a white suburban ten year old.

Oh, and, nice job concealling the identity of 'John Grey' there, Adam Kubert...the face you put on every female character, except this time SHE'S WEARING A HAT. And, Twelvth Night aside, there was that issue of Sandman about a girl-pretending-to-be-a-boy-so-she-could-be-a-sailor, yeah? REcycled!
 
 
FinderWolf
00:54 / 16.08.03
Wow, this was pretty weak - I thought it would at least be a little better than this. I'm prepared to give it some benefit of the doubt since it was all set-up, maybe things will get better once things start HAPPENING. I really liked Gaiman's AMERICAN GODS and the UNDERWORLD or whatever it was called novel, and I enjoyed SANDMAN tho' I can see the complaints about it taking itself so seriously or being like Goth Lite or something like that. But I think SANDMAN works, for the most part, and has a certain charm to it.

I agree about the Elseworlds type crap -- I got really sick of this with all of DC's Elseworlds books, even the good ones ("Look at how we did THIS character! And oooh, here's THIS one switched around a bit, isn't that keen?") "Scottius Summerius" or whatever the fuck his horrible name was made me laugh my ass off. And I guess Iceman's last name means "Drake" in some Elizabethan way. Sort of funny everyone else's names were almost exactly like their regular MU names and Bobby Drake's is like Bobby Tiroekth or something like that.

The whole 'let's do the MU, Elizabethan' style seems like Gaiman trying to be all Alan Moore and failing. The Kuberts' art kinda bores me; I think Isanove's coloring helps make it slightly more interesting. "The Witchbreed" also makes me giggle; sounds like Witchblade's kids from Top Cow. She always did look like a breeder, those gorgeous breasts, those supple hips....uh, anyway.

Anyway, maybe the second issue will be a small improvement. But I'm not expecting much. I think Otto Von Doom will be fun, though, and I like Stephen Strange as the Queen's John Dee-like 'physician'/magician.
 
 
Laughing
02:28 / 16.08.03
After blonde, blue-eyed Native American Captain America showed up, I spent the rest of the comic giggling 'this is SO gay' like a white suburban ten year old. --hypersimulation

(slaps forehead) Argh! Of COURSE that's who he's supposed to be! I had no idea who the "blonde indigenous warrior" was. Thanks for letting me know, in an inadvertent way. Still don't know who Virginia is -- it's probably glaringly obvious and I'm just having a senior moment.

I enjoyed the book overall. There was the "spot the character/easter egg"-type feel to it but it didn't ruin the story for me. It was sort of fun in a geeky way to point say "Oh! Oh! That's Magneto, that is!" The artwork was good, no complaints there. The only real problem I had is something HunterWolf mentioned too: "Scotius Summerisle"?! I groaned. I groaned loudly.
 
 
Krug
07:55 / 16.08.03
Fuckin' bore.
 
 
finger n' thump
09:42 / 16.08.03
I thought it was poor of Gaiman to expect us to believe that the queen's intelligence chief and her good doctor of medecines had never actually met before.

if 1602 does have big implications for the marvel universe as I think I've heard said, does this mean all those origin stories are going to be shown to have been co-incidental? That the Parquagh genetic line has always contained the capacity for 'spidey-sense' mutations? etc.
I don't know how Gaiman gets away with it you know.
He really is less than impressive but comics peeps are just so far up his arse.
Interested to see the manga meme creeping into this title. (fuckin bigeyed paedo-bounce for Cap on his boat)
On a tangent; I'm not so sure I'm looking forward to Marvel's attempts to lure the girls.
I wish these pricks would realise that people want to read good stories. That's fuckin all. Good stories. They don't have to be tennis based or romance or superheroe smush - good stories is the remedy, morons. (I'm talking to mainstream publishers lest you felt targeted)
anyway.....
the art is so shit.
but the cover is great.
significantly different for marvel.
gaiman, I bet, will take on a regular title, now that Moore has retired again.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:39 / 16.08.03
But Gaiman doesn't need to take on a title does he? He's fucking minted. It always has to be whatever his lordship wants. I mean look at the Sandman 'endless' hardcover that's coming out. Fuck that! Someone should edit him.
"No Neil. Go back and doit again. Don't come back until you have a STORY."
Unrelatedly, I have it on good word from an industry pro that Gaiman's a tosser.
 
 
—| x |—
14:04 / 16.08.03
This is the first comic I’ve read since the final Preacher TP. It’s the first comic I’ve bought since the final issue of The Invisibles (no wait, I think I bought some Last Gasp stuff in the past couple years…anyway). It’s also the first Marvel comic I’ve read since about 1992. After the Fall of the Mutants (or was it the Mutant Massacre?—whichever came second) was so fucking lame and no one important really died (what, one main character or something) I swore that Marvel fuckin’ sucked and that I’d never bother reading another one of their comics again. Well, yesterday I step into the comic store that is at the university for the first time since before I lived in Calgary. I thought I might pick up some issues of that Promethea some of you keep going on about (I ended up getting the first TP). So, the guy and I get to talking about the industry and some various writers and what not, and he ends up recommending this book. Well, I figure, what the fuck—it’s only supposed to be a limited series (what 6 books or something?) so if I like it I am not tied in for the next ten years or whatever. And he tells me a little about the premise of the new origins of the Marvel universe: not some “elsewhere” world, but the actual Marvel Universe. Sounds kind of neat.

So I finished reading it moments ago, and I thought it was fun, and is setting up for a tidy little story about the Ark of the Covenant or something. Personally, not having read any Marvel for so long, it was nice to see some of the characters surfacing. I especially like the treatment of Daredevil, and the panel where he does his acrobatics into the second story window was nicely done. And it’s always nice to see Dr. Strange. Also, while I really am sick to death of the X-men (one of the titles I read religiously until the Big Mutant Let Down), there was a real nice panel of Cyclops’ eyes. I am also looking forward to finding out more about the old man.

So, I liked it and I think I will get the rest of the series. I personally have no investment in the continuity and consistency of the Marvel Universe; thus, I really don’t care how divergent the series makes the history of some of the characters. It’s nice to see them shaking it up a little.

Also, the reason Fury and Strange hadn’t met is because Dr. Strange is the Queen's new court physician (see the sequence of dialogue between Strange and his love when he first arrives back home).
 
 
raelianautopsy
14:27 / 16.08.03
One way to de-manipulate yourself from hype is to pretend that someone else did a comic instead of the 'big name'. If someone other than Neil Gaiman did 1602 it would have been an extremely generic parralel unverse story that didn't break new ground at all. Notice there weren't very many Avengers in it, since they've all been medievalized all ready in the first few issues of Kurt Busiek's run? Maybe its too premature to judge though, its only the first issue but so far not impressive.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:33 / 16.08.03
Scotius Summerus (makes me think of the Monty Python 'Bigus Dickus' in LIFE OF BRIAN) fashions SUNGLASSES in 1602? I feel like the artist could have come up with a more time-appropriate visual design for whatever is keeping the beams in Scott's eyes from blowing everything up all the time. Maybe more like actual GLASSES from the time period? Or maybe it could be like a cloth laced with the rubies? Something is better than the glasses which looked straight out of 2003.

I do love the cover artist, though -- and I love the logo.
 
 
diz
16:57 / 16.08.03
god, this was so much worse than i expected.

i've been on an anti-Gaiman kick, but i really loved Sandman back in The Day, so i figured that once i got over my own pretensions i would get into it.

i was so wrong.

i wanted to tear the comic in half by the time they got to Ye Charminglye Roguishe Olde Taverne. good god, how many times has Gaiman recycled the same fucking Olde Taverne shtick? i mean, just in Sandman alone? i wonder if you could see Hob Gadling and a pale-faced stranger sitting together in the background somewhere, or maybe Cluracan.

i hate to cast aspersions like this on someone, but it really seems like Gaiman is not just writing like crap, but cynically selling to American wankers' ideas of Jolly Olde England. it's like a theme park or something.

and, as has been mentioned many times already "Scotius Summerisle?" i think one of my friends might have picked a name like that going to the Renaissance Festival when we were 14 or something. barf.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:28 / 16.08.03
"Still don't know who Virginia is -- it's probably glaringly obvious and I'm just having a senior moment."

Virginia Dare, the first child born in the colonies. Gone missing like everyone else at the Roanoke setlement. Real historical character.
 
 
quinine92001
01:40 / 17.08.03
"Croatan"
 
 
—| x |—
10:46 / 17.08.03
It is interesting to see so many feeling like Gaiman is simply recycling and reusing much of his old stock. I could see how this would be a pisser. For me, as one who hasn't read so much Gaiman in the past, I don't notice this aspect of the book, and so, I find some of the elements to be at least fun, whereas these same elements others are finding tired old hacked shit. Hmm...maybe Gaiman could find a way to destroy everything he's done before, and erase all memory of it from the minds of his readers: would that make 1602 a better book?
 
 
--
16:49 / 17.08.03
Haven't read "1602"... For that matter, haven't ever read a Marval comic period (guess I'm a DC loyalist). So I can't really comment.

I can see how it could be easy to bash Gaiman, but I still really love "The Sandman". Hell, were it not for that I would never have gotten into comics or Vertigo or anything like that... which means I would never have read stuff like "The Invisibles" or "Transmet". Gasp!
I've never met gaiman in real life but from all the stuff I've read about him (and interviews) he seems like a nice, very intelligent guy. I dunno.
 
 
--
16:50 / 17.08.03
As for Gaiman recycling himself... Well, lots of artists do that. Hell, look at Grant Morrison.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:16 / 17.08.03
I thought the white-haired woman was Tefe until someone pointed out this was Marvel not DC... Yes, it would have been better if the characters hadsn't been introduced making it painfully obvious who each of them was: "His name is Peter Parquagh." I mean, for fucks sake, we've seen him playing with a spider and we know his names Peter, I think we're able to work it out for ourselves Gaiman.

I wonder if, as they've 'sailed off' and are considered dead, whether the Fantastic Four are going to sail to the rescue in whatever the last issue of this is.

"Scotius Summersisle" is the shittest name ever.

But apart from that an average enough issue.
 
 
DaveBCooper
09:12 / 18.08.03
I thought it was okay. To be honest, given the fact Neil’s made no bones about what he’s going to do with the money, I consider buying it a contribution towards getting Marvelman out of the legal mire. Yes, I said Marvelman.

Anyway, it was all right for a first issue, though it did lightly suffer from introduce-everybodyitis, but that’s inevitable, really. I do hope, though, that he makes some vague kind of effort to give the characters a bit more to them than simply being 400-year-early versions of all the Marvel characters. Going ‘oooh, that must be X’ is mildly amusing, and I can pat my little fanboy back and feel all intellectually flattered, but I’d rather he didn’t just lean on the existing characterisation in its entirety.

Unlike some, I had no problem with the art, and the lettering was as good as ever.

And the cover was one of the first I can recall post-Watchmen which rolled straight into the story, though dunno if that’ll continue throughout the series in a conscious way in the same fashion.
 
 
sleazenation
11:29 / 18.08.03
"Scotius Summersisle" is the shittest name ever.

Ah but will we discover he is in fact the lord of an obscure scottish island with a failed harvest and an odd line in human sacrifice...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:49 / 18.08.03
Yes. The Wicker Man could be the muscle in the Elizabethan super-friends!
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:40 / 18.08.03
Told ye it was going to suck and yet the Gaiman brand brought readers in (not everyone here, but I wager 99% of total readers were drawn in like moths to the comic marquis by the big G on the cover).

People should have gotten drunk on that money or given it to a bum. Ye should all write the big G an email asking for your money back.

Who's getting the next issue then?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:57 / 18.08.03
I WILL! It revolutionised the way comics can be! Imagine the Marvel Universe...in pantaloons!

Fucking genius.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:47 / 18.08.03
So the Fantastic Four are presumed dead but are actually imprisoned somewhere (or at least the Human Torch is), Gaiman seems to be working on Morrison's interpretation of the Four as representing each of the four elements. Thinking of major Marvel characters, I think this Virginia might be the She-Hulk, what with her references to changing, though if so that's one of the widest reimaginings in the issue. Is that Magneto as head of the inquisition? It would fit with the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver as his subordinates.

So who haven't we had? The Hulk, Namor, the Silver Surfer (maybe Gaiman won't bother with any aliens, unless they're rejigged as mutants), Wolverine (presumerably he's at the school), Thor/Hercules.

And what's in the box? Presumerably it's the Arc of the Covenant, whether or not it is also The Ultimate Nullifier or some objectification of the Phoenix Force as well?
 
 
diz
17:51 / 18.08.03
I can see how it could be easy to bash Gaiman, but I still really love "The Sandman".

i still like The Sandman too, mostly. however, i haven't liked much of what he's done since then - Neverwhere, especially, was complete shit - and some parts of Sandman have really lost their charm for me over time.

the folksy English pub aspect of it is one of those elements. i just really loathe it when Gaiman gets all quaint and Ren-faire-ish. it also seems, to me, anyway, that over time he came to be really way too enamored with his own cleverness and the mythic stature of his stories, in a way that comes across as very condescending to the reader. it also has a tendency to wallow in canned nostalgia - it's almost Disney-esque. i feel like there's an overtone of "now gather round, children, while Old Uncle Neil envelops you in The Magic Of Storytelling! (tm) he holds the keys to the simple wisdom you've lost since the summers of your childhood..."

1602 just reeks of all the worst tendencies of NG's writing in that sense. it's not so much that he repeats himself as such, it's that he repeats the worst aspects of his own work.

And what's in the box? Presumerably it's the Arc of the Covenant, whether or not it is also The Ultimate Nullifier or some objectification of the Phoenix Force as well?

i vote for either the Cosmic Cube or the M'Kraan Crystal.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:35 / 18.08.03
well...i really like gaiman, so i'm a little perturbed by all the bashing here...i honestly can't see the problem with him. at least he can write a STORY that has an interesting plot. hey, I love the Invisibles, too, but c'mon, Morrison can't string a plot together to save his life. Check the past couple of New X-men storylines, for example.

Anyway, 1602. I certainly wasn't blown away. Marvel has already done the ultimate alternate reality series and it's called Earth X (Don't bother with the sequels. They are interesting, but don't compare to the original). I kind of dug the Templars stuff. But, as for the rest? Seems to early to tell, although I have to admit it was all kind of cheesy. The names are pretty boring and obvious.
 
 
The Falcon
20:27 / 18.08.03
Mjolnir's in the box. The old man is Thor.

[I stole this off another mb, but I reckon it's true.]

I'm intrigued enough to buy the second, but hardly pissing my pants in anticipation.
 
 
The Falcon
22:25 / 18.08.03
Oh, just found Jess Nevins' annotations to #1

Quite interesting stuff, the conceit is deeper than I'd been aware; though I'd suggest the green-tighted chap attacking Fury and Parquah (yuk) may be The Vanisher rather than the Vulture.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
22:37 / 18.08.03
What's the reasoning on the Old Man/Thor theory? I'm not saying I don't believe it, it would certainly be ironic if the secret treasure of a Christian sect is an object of power from a pagan religion, but the storms in England might signify that Thor is behind them, not that he's needed to put a stop to them. Hmmm, didn't the Silver Surfer manipulate Earth's weather with holograms to try and stop Galactus from eating us way back in FF #4 or something?
 
  

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