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IRAQ NEWS as it happens.

 
  

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Ganesh
16:43 / 21.03.03
Fuck.

 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:52 / 21.03.03
Rumsfield is having a news conference right now telling us about how 'humane' this is because the weapons are so 'accurate'.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:53 / 21.03.03
...and he just referred to the 24 hour new coverage as being 'free press'.

What a dry wit on that guy.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:59 / 21.03.03
Apparently it's the most free press in wartime ever... and it's all down to "embedding". Who'd'a thunk it, Don?
 
 
Jack Fear
17:06 / 21.03.03
Hundreds of Iraqis eagerly surrender

In the town of Safwan, Iraqi civilians eagerly greeted the 1st Marine Division...

One little boy, who had chocolate melted all over his face after a soldier gave him some treats from his ration kit, kept pointing at the sky, saying "Ameriki, Ameriki."


I need a break. I'm logging off the feeds for a while before my head explodes.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:19 / 21.03.03
And yet I can't look away...

Hoo boy.

Oil Depot Hit by Rocket in SW Iran, say Sources

An oil refinery depot in southwestern Iran close to the border with Iraq was hit by a rocket on Friday, and two people were injured, Iranian government sources told Reuters.

They said it was not clear where the rocket, which hit the depot in the city of Abadan at around 7:45 p.m., had come from.


More in link.
 
 
gingerbop
20:13 / 21.03.03
I hate these constant news bulletins... it reminds me of what i dont want to be reminded of. That they dont really know what theyr doing.
 
 
Baz Auckland
20:50 / 21.03.03
The first attack on Baghdad came from 320 Tomahwak cruise missiles fired by ships in the Gulf and the Red Sea

CNN's been ordered out as well.
 
 
Baz Auckland
01:41 / 22.03.03
1,000 Turkish troops enter Northern Iraq, pissing off Americans and Kurds.

BUT: Palau has joined the coalition! 3 Cheers!

(Palau being an island 458kmsq big in Micronesia, population 19,000)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:48 / 22.03.03
Two helicopters have collided; another 7 Brits dead.
 
 
Bill Posters
06:59 / 22.03.03
Ah, that'll be our hi-tec, precision guided 'copters. Lovely to know that just like the missiles, they simply can't go wrong.
 
 
Ganesh
07:41 / 22.03.03
Marines apparently involved in a "major battle" west of Basra...

Something Xoc and I were querying: the CNN footage included some almost-close-up shots of the faces of the surrendering Iraqi soldiers. Are we right in thinking this is, in itself, a violation of the Geneva Convention? Protection of the identities of POWs, etc.?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:48 / 22.03.03
Yep.

By the way, how can Palau join the Coalition, when it's just one member of the Feredated States of Micronesia (I actually wondered, when I saw the list of the Coalition members, why Micronesia wasn't on it. Do you know, I think I need to get out more.)
 
 
Bill Posters
07:57 / 22.03.03
I am under the impression that identifying POW's is an integral part of the GC. Also, the Amerikkkans may not be bothering to work within it; I would not be at all surprised if the Iy-Rayk-wies are defined as "illegal combatants" in TWAT, hence little things like the GC will have no meaning.
 
 
Jack Fear
10:11 / 22.03.03
Ganesh: I've heard it mentioned by a reporter on the ground that interviewing POWs is indeed prohibited under the Geneva Convention, as would, presumably, identifying them by name.

But a mere photographic likeness is probably not considered sufficient to clinch identity—as borne out by the continuing was-that-Saddam-or-was-it-a-double foofaraw currently inflaming the chattering classes.

Indeed, I can think of several famous war photographs that feature clear shots of the faces of POWs—in particular one from WWII, (I forget the photographer, unfortunately) with two German soldiers, badly beaten, falling to their knees to plead mercy every time the door to their cell was opened...

Another of an Australian POW just moments before his execution by beheading, blindfolded, on his knees, Japanese officer standing above him with the sword: the photo was taken surreptitiously, by an inmate, and smuggled out into the World—so the photographer was not constrained by the Convention, but LIFE magazine, which ran the photo, presumably was.

But (again, AFAIK) the prisoners in question were never identified by name in the magazines: it was always just "an Australian POW."

The military and the press are both institutions with a sense of history: I doubt that the rules of this engagement are being worked out on the fly—both parties know damned well what the other is and is not permitted to do. That said, this level of interconnectedness, the so-called "embedding," is AFAIK unprecedented—and the ol' fog of war does lead to the occasional fuck-up.

Bill: That "Amerikkka" thing is pure comedy gold. It just gets funnier

every

fucking

time.
 
 
Jack Fear
10:31 / 22.03.03
"Ameriki! Ameriki!"



"You're late. What took you so long? God help you become victorious... I want to say hello to Bush, to shake his hand. We came out of the grave."


(Hey, gotta take the good new with the bad, yeah? Or is it the bad news with the good?)
 
 
Bill Posters
11:27 / 22.03.03
Jack, I apologise. I criticised the USA. I was wrong.

* kneels before Dubbya and slobbers all over his shoes *

Fuuuuuck, and there was me thinking I had a right to freedom of speech and conscience.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:34 / 22.03.03
He didn't say you didn't. He said it wasn't funny that you incorporate the KKK into the name of the country he lives in. He's right. It's not. 'America' is not George Bush. This war runs more or less contrary to the American ethos - although it has been fairly successfully presented to the people of the US as being in line with that ethos.

Any time you want to find a better way of expressing your distaste for the war, that's fine with me.
 
 
MJ-12
11:57 / 22.03.03
Jack, much as I'd like to believe that the Iraqi's are thrilled to see the US troops (and they may very well be), they're seeing nervous men with guns coming through their town. If the wicked witch of the west showed up with that kind firepower, they'd probably be out yelling "God bless the Flying Monkeys!"
 
 
Jack Fear
13:18 / 22.03.03
Bill: I'm just jealous that you live in a country without extremist groups, and with no history of sectarian violence.

Either that, or I'm just pissed that "UDF-NF-IRA-ted Kingdom" isn't as pithy as "Amerikkka." (Just as accurate, though, in expressing the views of the country as a whole...)

In any case, I don't think it helps the level of the debate any.

And I'm not asking you to "slobber over W's shoes." Get a grip, and act like a grown-up. If you can't carry on a discussion without resorting to juvenile shit-flinging, it's awfully tempting to dismiss you out of hand as a dilettante.

Speaking of shit-flinging: a group of bright young things have expressed their displeasure with military action in Iraq by defecating in the City center of the most liberal and anti-war city in America, San Francico—much to the irritation of even those who share their views.

Way to uplift the cause, guys.
 
 
Bill Posters
13:48 / 22.03.03
Oh dear, oh dear. Jack, I have obviously made you mad and for that I apologise. It’s just there here in the UK, institutional racism is not the same as actual overt racism, and a member of a racist institution is not necessarily guilty of the latter. The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry explicity states:

“We hope and believe that the average police officer and average member of the public will accept that we do not suggest that all police officers are racist and will both understand and accept the distinction we draw between overt individual racism and the pernicious and persistent institutional racism which we have described.”

Surely the US is a racist institution? That is all I mean by ‘Amerikkka’. I was not trying to be funny (racism isn’t funny). I was perhaps allowing African American voices to be heard in a way they often aren’t on the ‘Lith (NWA, I believe, use the same spelling as me). I agree that this thread should not be bogged down in all this, and I for one will shut up about it henceforth, but I just want finally to say that I do not see you or any of the Stateside posters as 'American' or indeed 'Amerikkkan'... I regard you as people.

[edited for clarity]
 
 
Baz Auckland
15:39 / 22.03.03
Nick: According to the CIA World Factbook, Palau remained independent from the Federated States of Micronesia.

(I had to look up where Palau is. Not a good sign for the coalition. Angola's out, by the way.)
 
 
Char Aina
15:46 / 22.03.03
im probably chucking this in after it's over, but...

isnt amerikkka a fair speling if you are referring to an aspect of the nation that is in some way racist or in the style of those who belong to the klan?
if you were to use it in everyday writing, eg: "i was going on holiday to amerikkka", then it would be more unfair.

i use the spelling 'amerika' when wishing to allude to kafka, so i saw that as similar.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
21:02 / 22.03.03
There are factions in Micronesia? A million square miles of ocean with a land area of what, a few hundred miles, and they manage to have more than one country? Population, around two hundred thousand total?

So, let's be absolutely clear: the US is listing Palau - which is a tiny, tiny island not affiliated to the federation of the tiny, tiny islands of whose number it is geographically one - as one of the Coalition of the Willing?

And Palau will be supplying what, apart from stunning comedy value? Recreactional scuba? Roast hake? Precision guided pineapples?
 
 
Jack Fear
21:36 / 22.03.03
Moral support, and the added appearance of legitimacy.

And the next time Palau gets whacked by a hurricane, their good buddy the USA dishes out a big fat aid package. Makes perfect sense to me.

Or maybe—you know, just maybe—the government of Palau has a majority of people who think that removing Saddam Hussein by force is a good idea, and they just wanted to stand up and be counted.

You know, shortly after 11 September 2001, some aid workers (I think) encountered a band of nomadic Maasai herdsmen in Kenya. These Maasai generally only made it into town every few months, and were eager for news of the world. The visitors explained to the herdsmen what had hapopened in New York—explained it as best they could, and with the difference in lifestyle between the savannah and Manhattan they might as well have been talking about space aliens living on a distant planet. The Maasai were dumbstruck, astonished—and deeply moved. They resolved to do something, the only thing they could to express their solidarity with the people of the United States...

...and that's how the administrators of a disaster recovery fund in New York found themslves dealing with enquiries from Nairobi as to whether they could accept a contribution of a hundred head of cattle.

If they think the cause is just, people want to help—even if all they've really got to give is their prayers.
 
 
Mazarine
03:36 / 23.03.03
Soldier detained in grenade attack on 101st Airborne.

An American soldier, that is.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
06:36 / 23.03.03
Patriot Missle Downs UK Plane

so between this and the grenade tossing soldier, most of the reported "coalition" causalities have been inside jobs.
 
 
Magic Mutley
07:40 / 23.03.03
Report from the Sydney Morning Herald on the taking of Safwan Hill -

'Dead bodies are everywhere' ... Saddam's first martyrs lost


Later in the day, the American firepower was turned on Safwan Hill, an Iraqi military observation post a couple of kilometres across the border. About six hours after US marines and their 155mm howitzer guns pulled up at the border, they opened up with a deafening barrage. Safwan Hill went up in a huge fireball and the Iraqi observation post was obliterated.


"I pity anybody who's in there," a marine sergeant said. "We told them to surrender."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:47 / 23.03.03
It just gets dumber- apparently (according to Radio 4 news... I'll try to find a link) an ITN crew are missing, having last been seen being fired on by... wait for it... British troops while talking to some surrendering Iraqis.
 
 
Magic Mutley
08:41 / 23.03.03
Reports of American missiles hitting Iran, plus violations of Iranian airspace -

From Ananova
 
 
rizla mission
13:50 / 23.03.03
Are the Three Stooges in charge of this bloody war or something?

It seems like all those military types who seem to spend their whole lives immersed in minute details of technology and strategy and similar junk (and spend billions of dollars on it) .. have revealed themselves to be absolutely goat-fuckingly incompetent..

It would be pretty funny if people weren't being horribly killed.
 
 
Mazarine
14:05 / 23.03.03
Actually, Riz, I think it's Wile E. Coyote.

Yeah, the US is doing a specutacular job of kicking its own ass in addition to any other asses in the vicinity. Of course, stateside they're still chanting the mantra 'support our troops.' Like by putting them in a broken helicopter and blowing up the English?
 
 
Baz Auckland
14:38 / 23.03.03
There's the problem... on one hand they brag about how with their great technology they can hit anything with SUCH precision... and then they go and blow up, for example, some bit of Iran. Which either means the missles aren't that good, or they WERE aiming at Iran/the hospital/Chinese embassy/etc.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
15:50 / 23.03.03
It looks like a handfull of soldiers (5?) from my old unit the 3rd Infantry Division have been captured. Apparently one of them's a woman, and they've been interrogated on Iraqi tv, which is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Supposedly these guys took a wrong turn somewhere and were captured.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
15:54 / 23.03.03
Having driven an army truck in the Kuwaiti desert, I must say that if you're not following a convoy it's an absolute bitch. I don't know why these soldiers would have been on their own, I'm also unsure if they were driving on sand or road. Have to check up on that later after work.
 
  

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