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IRAQ NEWS as it happens.

 
  

Page: 123(4)567

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:01 / 23.03.03
Jack: that Maasai story is very, very touching. Do you have a reference for it?
 
 
Jack Fear
17:01 / 23.03.03
Heard it on Nat'l Public Radio last year some time--I'll see if I can find a link for the particulars...
 
 
Jack Fear
17:20 / 23.03.03
Okay, so I misremembered the details: it was only 14 cows. And it was village, not a band of nomads. And they had radios, and knew about the evnts in the abstract.

Still.

Here's highlights of the story as it appeared in New York Times:

"Most Masai had learned of the attacks from the radio soon after they occurred. But the horrible television images passed by many Masai, who got electricity in their village only shortly before the attacks. In the oral tradition they rely on, Mr. Naiyomah [the visitor] sat them down and told them stories that stunned them.

"Through his tales, Sept. 11 became real. The Masai felt sadness. They felt relief that Mr. Naiyomah was unscathed. They wanted to do something.

"Today, in a solemn ceremony in a grassy clearing, they did, blessing 14 cows being given to the people of the United States. Elders chanted in Maa as they walked around the cows, animals held sacred by the Masai (often spelled Maasai)."

Full story hither (requires registration).

But the follow-up gets even better...
 
 
netbanshee
18:51 / 23.03.03
A hidden iraqi chemical plant has been uncovered by a group of US troops. Suggestions of chemical weapon creation abound...
 
 
netbanshee
18:52 / 23.03.03
The grenade attack on a US camp is now thought to have been carried out by one of their own.
 
 
bjacques
18:58 / 23.03.03
That story's great! I needed a break from war news.

Well, it looks like the military planning these PNAC ideologues did paid off, assuming the Bush administration implemented much of it in just two, or the Clinton inheritance is better than the GOP cares to admit. When one side militarily outclasses the other so overwhelmingly, more soldiers can die by accident than by enemy fire. Also in play are the casualty statistics for any largeish population, even one whose individuals are as well-trained as modern soldiers. For the amount of firepower unleashed, there are remarkably few civilians killed.

But if those people had put half as much thought into modernizing their ideology instead of recycling 1970s Kissinger crossed with early 1690s Judge Hathorne, and relying on a 21st-century military to force it on everyone else. Which raises the question: will abortion be legal in post-Hussein Iraq?

I caught the press conference of Lt. General (US) Abaizad (sp?). He gave a lot of information, I thought. He acknowledged the Iraqi tactic of faking surrenders, which killed about a dozen US marines. The tactic is obvious; first to take down as many allied troops and then to make it tougher for regular Iraqi soldiers to surrender later. The lite general said they'd just be more careful in the future. He also expressed his disgust at al-Jazeera's rebroadcasting Iraqi TV footage of the US soldiers killed or captured, and wished they would not do that, but twice said he did not consider al-Jazeera hostile media, which puts him one up on his bosses.

The army's smart to go around the cities. When the Republican Guard (I'm *so* glad they're called that) are indistinguishable from the locals but can still cause trouble, there's no need to rush them. somebody apparently *did* learn something from Waco.

"Shock and awe" is pretty damned patronizing, and the sort of phrase a politician would use far away from the battlefield. Iraqis have been bombed off and on for more than 10 years. True, in 4 days Baghdad saw more bombing than in 10 years, but they're still just bombs and they're only headed for government targets. The locals avoid the target areas like a bad neighborhood. *Nukes* would be shocking, but not in the way Rumsfeld would like. He must think he's Lord Kitchener impressing the fuzzy-wuzzies with a few Lewis guns.

This morning I saw a young US army officer interviewed. On his helmet he'd written "XO [exec officer?] Shai-Hulud." Hmm.
 
 
stml
01:35 / 24.03.03
Here are two scenarios that crossed my mind...

The first was really hopeful a couple of nights ago - there seemed to be the suggestion that the coalition forces would go only just over the border then the CIA would foment a coup, talk to the generals, and it would collapse all nicely. I was very excited about this idea.

Something a lot worse appears to be happening now - what happens if enough Iraqi soldiers scatter and turn to guerilla warfare? Isn't that the only thing that can really fuck up a techie army? They've been trying to secure Um Qasr for three days now...
 
 
Jack Denfeld
06:15 / 24.03.03
I'm watching Saddam give a "live" speech right now on Iraqi tv via MSNBC. It looks like the coalition forces are in deep shit. Saddam has made some sort of deal with the god Allah, and says the Iraqi military will have victory. He has yet to mention any specific things from the past few days. May be taped. "Kill, kill, kill, you're all like my family, blah, blah, blah." God, I'm tired. I'm going to sleep.
 
 
Saveloy
11:23 / 24.03.03
Any news of refugees yet? Interesting report on Radio 4 this morning which claimed that more Iraqis are trying to get in to the country than leave it. A few days ago Taxi drivers were charging 15 dollars to drive from the Syrian border to Baghdad, but are now charging up to 1000 dollars because of the huge demand by Iraqi ex-pats wanting to return to defend their country.
 
 
grant
14:37 / 24.03.03
Any news of refugees yet? Interesting report on Radio 4 this morning which claimed that more Iraqis are trying to get in to the country than leave it. A few days ago Taxi drivers were charging 15 dollars to drive from the Syrian border to Baghdad, but are now charging up to 1000 dollars because of the huge demand by Iraqi ex-pats wanting to return to defend their country.

I don't know about driving back *in*, but there was a report on NPR this morning that far fewer refugees than expected have turned up at Red Cross facilities thus far. The thinking is that they're less able to move around than they were during Operation Desert Storm - something about sanctions ruining roads and making fuel harder to come by.
 
 
Lionheart
16:32 / 24.03.03
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,920714,00.html

About the supposed chemical facotry find:

The former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter told Sky News: "If it's true, it legitimises in one fell swoop the entire Bush administration position vis-à-vis Iraq." He added that he found the reports convenient and was sceptical that a huge chemical weapons establishment would be located in a Shia area traditionally hostile to President Saddam.
 
 
Lionheart
16:34 / 24.03.03
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030324/80/dw5ka.html

DAMASCUS (Reuters) - A U.S. plane has fired a missile at a bus carrying 37 Syrians home from Iraq, killing five and wounding at least 10, according to the official SANA news agency.

It said the incident occurred on Sunday morning in Iraq's al-Rutbeh area, some 160 km (100 miles) from the Syrian border.

"A U.S. warplane fired a missile at 10 a.m. local time yesterday (Sunday) on a civilian bus carrying Syrian nationals in al-Rutbeh...killing five and wounding at least 10," the agency said on Monday.

The bodies of the five dead Syrians were taken to a Damascus hospital in coffins with Iraqi death certificates, the hospital director, Dr. Abdullah al-Asali, told Reuters. "The deaths were caused by an explosion...We saw shrapnel wounds and distortions due to an explosion," he said.

A source identified the five as Amjad Abou Azab, Asheq al-Warrad, Abdul-Karim al-Hamdou, Ahmad Elaywi, and Salmou Hamamseh. "They were all young, apparently labourers returning home after the war started," he told Reuters.

Ten wounded Syrians were treated at a medical centre at the al-Tanf border post and two at the Damascus hospital. All were released apart from a man with a leg injury, who was transferred to a hospital in his home town, the central city of Hamma, medical sources said.

The bus was carrying 37 people when it was hit, SANA said.

Syrian analyst Imad Shueibi said he did not expect Syria to respond militarily and accused Washington of trying to halt the movement of people between Syria and Iraq.

"It is...an attempt to cut the open road between Syria and Iraq," Shueibi said. "The intention is to provoke us and we will not be (provoked)."

Syria, the only Arab non-permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, has been a staunch opponent of the U.S.-led war on fellow Arab Iraq.

Oil-rich Iraq has attracted labourers from Arab and Asian countries for years, despite the crippling economic sanctions imposed on Baghdad for its 1990-91 occupation of Kuwait.
 
 
Francine I
17:37 / 24.03.03
A clarification:

The U.S. POWs may not have been interrogated, per se, on Iraqi TV -- they were supposedly interviewed by the Iraqi media. As pointed out by Iraqi officials, logos and equipment belonging to civilian media groups in Iraq are clearly visible in the footage. Is there a difference? Well, if CNN interviewed Saddam, we'd think so, wouldn't we? I'm not so sure Bush's administration is in any position to complain about potential contravention of the Geneva Convention.

Interesting tidbits:

Iraq says we have not encountered the Republic Guard, and will not prior to reaching the big 'B'. They say all the soldiers encountered by coalition forces thus far have been Iraqi Army Regulars. This could constitute a gross "misunderestimation" of Iraq's ability to defend itself. We'll see.

A sand storm with 50 MPH gusts will be sweeping into the combat zone on Tuesday, either just before or just after U.S. forces begin attacking Baghdad. Maud'dib! Maud'dib! Er.. Oops.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:51 / 24.03.03
Reports of Iraqi troops in civilian clothes, fake surrenders and booby traps. Which, I suppose, is what you'd expect from a grossly out-classed army fighting an enemy with orders to avoid civilian casualties.
 
 
gridley
19:05 / 24.03.03
I think it's a fairly brilliant strategy, Nick. Not only do the Iraqis get to pull off a decent ambush, but they also get to spread the word about how US/UK troops are killing surrendering Iraqi soldiers, thus putting doubts into the minds of anyone thinking of surrendering.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
19:52 / 24.03.03
It's probably the only way Iraq can hope to make any kind of impact. I was actually wondering why they even bothered to have a regular-style army at all for this conflict. It also means that Saddam Hussein's (and his generals') rather notorious lack of military wisdom is irrelevant, because the soldiers are striking at targets of opportunity and in non-military situations. Potentially a natural selection process similar (Gawd 'elp us) to the one in which the Mujihaddin were hardened in combat against the Soviets.

On the other hand, that's not a scenario which lends itself to governing a nation, and certainly not to imposing the kind of terror and centralised tyranny which is the Hussein forte. Your commanders become more and more independent and you can't stop them, they become warlords who don't answer to you any more.

Demonstrating once again that war is shitty for all involved.

Speaking of which, is anyone else petrified that Saddam's claim that 'victory is in sight' and his promise to bring the war to the West implies some kind of huge terrorist-style strike here and in the US over the next few days? 'Cos I'm seriously thinking of pissing of to this house I know which has a deep cellar and a nice view of the sea.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:06 / 24.03.03
I'm not.

I'm deeply skeptical about his capability to pull off something like that, or any other terrorist group.
 
 
gridley
20:57 / 24.03.03
yeah, I don't see the agents of Saddam staying that loyal to him once they move abroad. Even Osama's Islamic fundamentalists were blowing their money on strippers. I would wager any agents Saddam was willing to spare for such missions are eating barbecue and freedom fries in some bar right now.
 
 
Baz Auckland
22:11 / 24.03.03
The Arab League has called for the US et al. to withdraw

The United States and Britain should withdraw their troops from Iraq immediately and without conditions, and the U.N. Security Council should hold an emergency meeting on the issue, the Arab League said Monday.

The coalition attack on Iraq violates the U.N. Charter and threatens world peace, the 22-member league said in a resolution that did not receive full support.

Kuwait entered the lone no vote because the resolution omitted any reference to the 10 Iraqi missiles that have landed on its soil since the conflict began Thursday.

Several summit delegates chose their words carefully because their nations are hosting U.S. forces. But the chief Libyan delegate, Ali al-Treiki, received sustained applause when he spoke of "Iraqi heroism" battling American and British troops.

"We have to raise our heads high and salute Iraqi heroism as proof that Arab individuals are capable of confronting the mighty, the coercive and the arrogant," al-Treiki said.

Al-Treiki warned delegates at the session's opening, "If Iraq is to fall, many Arab countries will fall as well."

The remark touched on concerns by Arab leaders that allowing the United States to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) could threaten their own undemocratic regimes.


I just thought that last bit was interesting. Our leaders keep talking of democracy, but since no one else around there really is, I've wondered how they felt about it...
 
 
Bill Posters
07:51 / 25.03.03
Click here for civilian casualty pictures the mainstream media is currently none to anxious to show. N.B.: these pictures are very unpleasant, and of course, I can't prove they are genuine.
 
 
angel
09:34 / 25.03.03
Gridley, sorry to get all snarky on your ass, but on what information do you base your statements about Osama's people and the "agents of Saddam"?

I'm sorry to pick you up on this but we get enough blanket unproven statements every day in this bloody war and I would like to think that we in Barbelith-land are working to move beyond that.

For example the thing that currently makes me screech like a banshee (don't ask, it's not pretty!) is the statement made on days two and three (?) of the war that Saddam's hold on the country was crumbling and the will of the people to fight against the Americans was almost non-existant. BASED ON WHAT????? No where did anyone ever justify or explain this statement! I am finding this and other statements like it are just soul destroying. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! And they are suprised that there is resistance???????

And given that the "people/soliders" seem to be quite capably fighting back and aren't just rolling over like good puppy dogs, what they fuck did they think they were on about???? I know what they were doing and that it was all propaganda for the benefit of any Iraqis watching on satellite TV but ...... Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!
Just stop fucking lying to us!

Sorry, this whole thing is just getting to me. I think I'm going to stop watching for a while. All my worst nightmares about propaganda and people's seeming inability to see/think around it is doing my head in. There are so many issues about this war that aren't even being expressed, explored or even nodded at.

Will go now. sigh!
 
 
rizla mission
10:28 / 25.03.03
All my worst nightmares about propaganda and people's seeming inability to see/think around it is doing my head in. There are so many issues about this war that aren't even being expressed, explored or even nodded at.

Agreed. As I've said elsewhere, it seems almost impossible to find any reliable, or even coherent, reports of what the hell's going on at the moment. Every media source is so tied up with being PRO-WAR or ANTI-WAR, that just about everything's reading like propaganda.. truth first casualty of war blah, blah, blah..

I think this thread's doing a pretty good job of siphoning the useful bits out of the endless mass of drivel, btw.. it's told me more of interest than reading about three different papers over the weekend..
 
 
Olulabelle
11:46 / 25.03.03
Not sure if this is the right place to post this so apologies if not and maybe someone can put it where it should go. I thought people might be interested in this warblog. It's by a man called Salam, and he is an Iraqi, writing from Iraq.
 
 
sleazenation
12:13 / 25.03.03
Actually there is already a thread on Salam Pax's weblog here.
 
 
gridley
12:28 / 25.03.03
Angel, my doubts about the abilities of Iraqi terrorists (if they even exist, which I find doubtful) are based on the fact that the western lifestyle is very corrupting. I don't think sincerely-held political beliefs are enough to sustain a terrorist once they leave home and they're confronted with 200 channels of shit on the tv and shopping malls the size of cities. I think you need religious fanaticsm to armor your mind against the madness of western thinking, and I don't think any of Saddam's would-be agents are all that Islamic.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:37 / 25.03.03
More corrupting than, for example, being under heavy fire from a vastly superior military machine? 'Cos that doesn't seem to be slowing them down any.

Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979. He's controlled the world of Iraq pretty thoroughly during that time, though nothing on the scale of North Korea. Sure, lots of people won't believe a word he says, but at least a few will be loyal and devoted, having grown up under his rule. Hitler comparisons are idiotic for the most part, but this is a dictator whose youth programme has had time to mature. It's not impossible that he has at least a few people who are completely sold on his Cult of Personality. That kind of thing is basically a religious fanaticism under another flag.
 
 
grant
15:41 / 25.03.03
Once again, noble North Africans come through with aid in the form of beasts:

UPI: Morocco offers US monkeys to detonate mines:

RABAT, D.C., Morocco, March 24 (UPI) -- A Moroccan publication accused the government Monday of providing unusual assistance to U.S. troops fighting in Iraq by offering them 2,000 monkeys trained in detonating land mines.

The weekly al-Usbu' al-Siyassi reported that Morocco offered the U.S. forces a large number of monkeys, some from Morocco's Atlas Mountains and others imported, to use them for detonating land mines planted by the Iraqis.

The publication quoted a highly-informed source as saying, "that is not a scientific illusion but a well-known military tactic."

 
 
gridley
15:43 / 25.03.03
More corrupting than, for example, being under heavy fire from a vastly superior military machine?

Absolutely! I imagine that being attacked by any kind of military force will likely convince you that you're doing the right thing by fighting them. Watching Bill Bellamy score with the mobster's girlfriend on "Fastlane" however will likely make you put off building your bomb at least as long as it takes for the pizza to arrive.
 
 
Ganesh
16:30 / 25.03.03
Sounds like the 'shock and awe' theory's a load of bollocks, then...
 
 
grant
18:07 / 25.03.03
Weirder, even:

Dolphins arrive to hunt mines
March 26 2003, 4:36 AM

The US Navy is about to put Atlantic bottle-nosed
dolphins into active war service.
At the southern Iraqi port of Umm Qasr, secured by US and British forces after days of fighting, soldiers made last-minute preparations today for the imminent arrival from Florida of a team of specially trained dolphins to help divers ensure the coastline is free of danger before humanitarian aid shipments can dock.
US Navy Captain Mike Tillotson told reporters that three or four dolphins would work from Umm Qasr, using their natural sonar abilities to seek out mines or other explosive devices which Iraqi forces may have planted on the seabed.
"They were flown over on a military animal transporter in fleece-lined
slings," Tillotson said. "We keep them in a certain amount of water. They travel very well.
"They will be given restaurant quality food and vitamins, and they will work out of wells which we've set up here."
Tillotson said the dolphins were trained not to swim up to mines, but to place a marker a small distance away, minimising any danger to themselves.
Several mines were discovered last week on the back of ships along the Faw peninsula, but teams of divers searching around Umm Qasr port since
yesterday have not found any embedded mines.




More here.
 
 
bio k9
18:11 / 25.03.03
I guess Aquaman isn't so useless after all.
 
 
Baz Auckland
18:29 / 25.03.03
Dolphins? At least the future is now becoming a William Gibson book instead of a Tom Clancy!
 
 
gridley
20:01 / 25.03.03
And cyborg dolphins at that, judging by the photo! So, when do we send our secret army of burrowing ninja monkeys?
 
 
bjacques
20:36 / 25.03.03
4 words: Day of the dolphin
 
 
William Sack
21:00 / 25.03.03
Grant, that picture is not of an actual combat dolphin but of an embedded reporter dolphin.
 
  

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