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Underground > Creation >

Mafia 2: The Early Years.

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16:53 / 19.02.03

I'll give Todd till the end of the day (18:00 EST, 23:00 GMT) to make his final speech & cast an allegation.

Whisky Priestess

17:01 / 19.02.03

You're just making us wait so that we buy more popcorn.

17:03 / 19.02.03

grant: cast an allegation -- he's innocent.

As far as I understand.

06:41 / 20.02.03

Why was Bendt Chromeo announced as an innocent? Was it done because enamon dropped out of the game and you wanted to equal out the sides?I'm just wondering.

13:58 / 20.02.03

Because when detectives are whacked, their findings are made public. The detective had time to ask but one question before meeting his end. That question was: "Is Bendt Chromeo mafia?"
When his body was found, so was this information.

14:24 / 20.02.03

Ah. Cool.

01:15 / 24.02.03

Gah. I go out for a movie and the mayor makes a liar out of me.

Were you specifically trying to make me look bad??

13:29 / 24.02.03

Obed McGrant cares not for "week" or "weekend"!

17:40 / 20.03.03

We certainly seem to be redefining the phrase "baroque plot," but I'm rather enjoying it from on high.

18:00 / 20.03.03

You mean you're not grinding your teeth every time you see my name?

18:01 / 20.03.03

As long as votes are actually cast, no.

21:39 / 20.03.03

Here - I'm opening a discussion on voting practices.

Discuss here or on the wiki, linked above. (just hit "Edit" at the bottom of the page, and write in what you think).

Dead Grantonians and non-players, feel free to contribute.

18:25 / 25.03.03

So, the game's over.

Impressions?

18:47 / 25.03.03

I think we need a Mafia Support Group thread, to heal and get closure. And thrash out old grudges, of course. Whisky and Bengali I can understand, but I'll never forgive you, lolita!

18:52 / 25.03.03

Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

Whisky Priestess

19:04 / 25.03.03

Speaking as an evil supervillain, I think the villagers deserve TLC more than TRC.

Bwahahahaha!!!

Seriously though - I apologise to everyone who was deceived and/or horribly murdered, (i.e. NOT including Orr) but if it's any comfort you all gave me several sleepless nights on Death Row. After Stoatie was saved from death, I really, really, really didn't think we were going to make it - as grant can testify, I even wrote my own death scene in anticipation.

19:11 / 25.03.03

It might be my fault you never got to debut it. I thought publically enlisting in Orr's army would drive iszabelle right into your camp, so I kept hedging, which seems to have driven iszabelle right into your camp.

Shame on you, iszabelle! But huggles just the same. Shame and huggles. It's like you're part of the family!

Whisky Priestess

19:13 / 25.03.03

If not actually part of the Family.

19:29 / 25.03.03

but I'll never forgive you, lolita!

Oh God. How will I go on? Please, Qayln!! Whatever. I did what I had to do... in time, you'll understand. It was business, not personal. Pies will be dedicated to the memory of you and Orr.

Seriously though, Orr, how DID you figure us out? Was it really through meeting with Whisky in person? And for the record, Whisky and Bengali are some seriously smart cookies. They deserve all the credit. I also had nothing to do with any of the death scenes. Heh.

19:43 / 25.03.03

My deepest and sincere apologies to Orr. You were right, I was wrong. And I will suffer with that knowlege...

Mistress, are you ready to have your boots buffed?

Nietzsch E. Coyote

19:59 / 25.03.03

I had Whisky and Lolita pegged from right near the beginning but I had them teamed with Byron.

Whisky Priestess

20:16 / 25.03.03

Interesting ... Flyboy thought that BiP and Byron were working together, although I think he let me off the hook.

As to how Orr worked me out, he was suspicious of me right from the very start, like even before the game, and I guess I didn't do enough to dispel that suspicion. He started with the premise that I was mafia and hey, he happened to be right. From there, he worked out from the voting record who I was linked to. Wery clever indeed.

And then the BC death happened, which rather put the tin lid on it -having known me and my prose style for going on eight years, he was absolutely sure as soon as he read it (correct me if I'm wrong on any of this btw Orr). Fortunately, others proved harder to convince.

And I think you deserve more credit than you're taking, Lol - you and Bengali managed to fool people in meatspace, at which I was a dead loss (well, unless Flyboy thought I was innocent) - plus you both did some nifty argumentation on the thread. Nifty as opposed to hefty, i.e. my technique. Blind them with science! Spin conspiracy theories out of nothing! Bore them into submission!

I have to say that the voting patterns of Bitchlaces, Orr and Qalyn were an absolute gift though. I guess they were all thinking along the same lines and it showed.

21:42 / 25.03.03

Well, of course Whisky, I am always suspicious of you. Actually, I was just winding you up to begin with and had stopped because I decided to try to think about who was truly mafia and then something smelled odd. I'm still not entirely sure whether continuing the game in meatspace isn't cheating in some obscure way or at the least a bad idea. However, whenever we discussed the game I got the strong impression that you were trying to lead me in certain directions. It may well be that this was nothing more than paranoia, but I became convinced that you were playing me. Once you've identified someone you are certain is mafia at an early stage it is merely a question of trying to figure who is working in concert. The worrying thing is that it was still totally circular logic - everything was reasoned from an assumed given. Once the three of you fell into place, it was far to pretty a pattern to give up.

I guess the frustrating thing is how well I played into all your hands when I moved from a passive to an active role. I really handled it badly when I tried to move the village against you and in the end the whole 'femafia' debacle came back to bite me on the arse. Given that we only had the one dectective it was a hell of a stroke of luck killing him off so early, but in the end we were just outplayed.

Frankly, there was never quite enough evidence to provide a smoking gun and playing the casting votes in rotating pairs rather than as a threesome was a masterstroke. BC's death scene was a bit of a giveaway, but there was no way to use that to convince anyone else, especially after you'd given me the credit for it.

So, congratulations to you all. Enjoy your dominion and as for the rest of us poor Grantonians, remember the wise words of Harry Lime - we are at least saved from the cuckoo-clocks.

21:59 / 25.03.03

Here! Here! How about a round of slurry grappas for the survivors?

Whisky Priestess

22:26 / 25.03.03

The limoncellos should probably be on me.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:31 / 26.03.03

I always had my doubts about yon Priestess... towards the end, though, lolita and BiP were doing a fucking good job of proclaiming their innocence.
Oh well. Sorry to everyone we lynched.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:40 / 26.03.03

I had bengali pegged as Mafia from the moment I met a grisly fate - I'd requested help via PM and she chose to effectively damn me, and then claimed not to realise she'd done so, which would require either severe fuzzy-brainedness or at the very least poor math skills. Sadly this knowledge wasn't much use to me...

I think poor Orr's fate teaches us an important lesson - even if you've figured it out *correctly*, know when to zip it, because nothing draws suspicion like extended explanation of your theories. In fact, I think a good general lesson for this game is that anything which draws attention also draws suspicion.

08:20 / 26.03.03

Actually, nothing draws suspicion like certainty. Others expounded on theories and I mainly did so as a result of being challenged. Our grey ladies were pumping just as much speculation into the thread as I was, with Qalyn adding to the pile - they were just a damn sight more convincing, and cultivated a superior air of faux coyness, outrage, confusion and fear. Figuring everyone's roles is only a battle - projecting innocence is the war. Well slap my thighs and call me Rommel.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:27 / 26.03.03

I dunno... I found that it was when I stopped speculating people started suspecting me... oh yeah, that'll be because I'm incompetent!

12:07 / 26.03.03

Not that I lasted long, but I had effectively excluded Bengali from my suspicions because in the signup thread, she mentioned something about only sporadic net access, and I thought Mayor grant would exclude her from a special role because of that.

For most of the game, though, I though Bitchlaces, Whiskey, and Lolita were in cahoots. Since others had the same trio, Bitchlaces, you must be one shifty fellow. I think I thought it because I immediately suspected Whiskey, and the way she and Bitchlaces traded off votes for one another in the first round stunk of misdirection.

I'd like to take this time to apologize to Flyboy. I got so caught up in the fun and thrill of lynching that I didn't realize someone would get hurt. So, I'm sorry.

I'd also like to apologize to everyone else for inspiring Chrome to start the PM line of inquiry. It was a bad thing for me to do, and I'm sorry. I've learned my lesson.

12:57 / 26.03.03

I don't think you were that much at fault, Todd. If the PM thing had been used as part of a strategy to provoke reactions, rather than as a smoking gun, it would've been okay. You'd have seen lolita and Whiskey as the only two players who didn't point out the strategy's flaws to BC... the only two I know of now, that is. The only people to be blamed for how it turned out are me and BC.

As for drawing suspicion, I think it's essential to do so. First of all, it'd be a really boring game if everyone stayed quiet. First and a half of all, staying quiet at the wrong time looks just as evil. Second, playing it cool is what got Lionheart killed. Looking suspicious is the best way to stay in the game long enough for your votes to count for something. Obviously, I haven't figured out how to do that while retaining some scrap of credibility with the rest of the villagers.

And finally, constantly referring to "femafia" is no way to win the confidence of a crucial female voter. I just wasn't thinking.

Whisky Priestess

13:30 / 26.03.03

Man! I didn't realise how many people suspected me (although hindsight is always 20:20). Guess I should shut mah big mouth once in a while.

Qalyn, that's a good point about the flaws in the PM system. I dedcided that if BC was dumb enough to trust in it, he should not be corrected by humble me.

At least on Space Station Whisky we won't have the PM problem, as pretty much everyone will be a different special character. Japery ahoy!

13:42 / 26.03.03

So - the mafia got *really* lucky with their first whack. (Just for the record, Qalyn was actually protecting Whisky that first round.)

I'm curious how villagers thought the Doctor did alone, with no help from a fact-finder... a pretty extreme condition for a "shakedown cruise" for the role.

13:55 / 26.03.03

Actually, Qalyn, I can't believe you let BC get whacked - he was the only person in the game whose ID as an innocent anyone could possibly be sure of. What possessed you to protect someone other than him?

13:58 / 26.03.03

It's difficult to criticise the ratio of mafia to 'good' specials without sounding (rightly) like the worst loser ever. So I won't. Even with Tez's early departure we still could have won the game after Qalyn saved the Chairman had we gone the right way in the final lynching. All in all, any rules that result in the game hanging on a razor edge right up to the final vote have to be described as successful. For personal preference, I'd go for three mafia and two 'tecs and justify the doctor by adding another, evil 'half-powered' character like the fink, but that would mean quite a large playing group. I'm just starting to realise quite how much of an effect the selection of specials has on the whole tenor and tactics of a game. I guess any number of variations could work, you gotta pick how you want the game to go.

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