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New X-Men #139

 
  

Page: 1234(5)6

 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:01 / 18.04.03
Here's my two cents, having not read the issue but extrapolating from other peoples descriptions:

She's either dead, or she's very, very injured. She's already had her further evolution. She doesn't appear to be Omega. Either she turns up next issue (with some pretty severe injuries) just in time for #140's REAL murder, or she's croaked it. Dead. At the arse-end of the finite.

Also, this looks like a classic kick overdose, and I'm very suprised that hasn't been mentioned. Maybe she tried to power up to take on Jean and snuffed herself.

That scene with Xron in the woods is foreshadowing something but it isn't murder. Grant wants to introduce new and innovative X-Men and Xorn is the first of those. It's been his stated aim since day one.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:05 / 18.04.03
Why can't it be both ways with Xorn?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:30 / 18.04.03
I dunno. He's not a murderer. The U-Men were evil- Sublime (who is still alive- did no one get the hint in #136?) was part of a group that made Xorn kill against his own volition. The U-Men killed innocents, they were trying to kill more innocents when Xorn killed them- although note how the bodies never turned to ash + bone, does that suggest a greater degree of power refinement? Did he just send them to another place like Quentin? Maybe he has to take life in order to heal?

The point is, the U-Men were a cancer and had no place in the new X world. Wolverine has done a lot worse, but was he ever held up as a threat?
 
 
louisemichel
14:37 / 18.04.03
I was not crazy about a murder mystery in the Xavier Mansion...
But...
Best comic I read since a long time.
Grant and Phil should definitely work together more often.

To all of you who don't read New X-men at the moment, read it !
 
 
Simplist
15:11 / 18.04.03
How long is Jiminez on the title, anyway? Just this arc, or all the way through 150?
 
 
Mike-O
15:28 / 18.04.03
Murder At the Mansion (#139-141)-- Jimenez
Assault On Weapon Plus (#142-145) -- Bachalo
Planet X (#146-150) -- Jimenez

And Sublime is dead, buddy. The U-Men still follow his rulebook, tho. He's a martyr now.
 
 
perceval
15:35 / 18.04.03

Hadn't thought about the possibility of a Kick overdose.

As for Jean, I don't think she's going to have to be stopped, considering that this is Nature at work, here.

E
 
 
Quimper
15:41 / 18.04.03
Right, I think Jean is going to have to stop nature itself. The Phoenix Force is obviously the force of nature that has chosen to deal with mutantkind during the disinfection period. I think Dust is going to move Jean away from that Old Testament God smote-happy behavior. So eventually she will have to reject the Phoenix.

Look at it this way. Remember the utensils, "Jean is only the house where I live" scene in the Fantomex arc? What was the one pop culture reference everyone made in regard to that scene?...it was straight out of the Exorcist. Jean as Regan (damn, there's that name again, see my King Lear post). And what was the main point to The Exorcist?...the exorcism.
 
 
Aertho
16:05 / 18.04.03
I have different kind of clarity about Jeannie and her impending "disinfection". She's becoming an Omega Level telepath, duh. Which obviously means that she's opening her sense of self to a greater amount of consciousnesses. Opening the sense of self and identity is the overwhelming threat and danger with telepathy -we discussed it thoroughly in Mindreading for Columbine and the Xavier coporate virus threads.

Emma asks: "Why am I telling you all this?"

Jean replies: "You're not, it's just happening that way."

"Jean" is becoming, on a psychic level, one with anyone's Tiphereth(SuperSelf/soul). She's already tapping into the univeral Tiphereth(The Phoenix). Jean, the woman, wasn't forcing Emma into any frightening situation. Emma was being propelled by her own soul, albeit on fire due to Phoenix's presence, into reliving her shames and regrets. It wasn't JEAN who is the judge and jury, but Phoenix forcing one's soul to become a judge and jury to their persona. Emma was burning thorugh Emma... I foresee a problem if people begin to rationalize that JEAN is causing all this turmoil, when it's really just their own fears and insecurites being burned away by the power of their own soul.

Jean may disinfect the planet of its individual fears and smaller rooms(ala QQ) by allowing Phoenix to empower their souls to burn away their infection-like personalities. It's another one of those really-Good Apocalypses. Everybody's afraid that "the enemy within" is a person on the team... it's actually The Enemy Within, the part of their minds that keeps them small and afraid.

Does this make sense?
 
 
Mike-O
16:17 / 18.04.03
Does to me, tho your rationalizing may be slightly flawed. Regardless of the fact that one's own "soul" spurs the means of exploration of one's flawed persona, the Phoenix is still aware that this is going to happen. Meaning Jean is no doubt aware of it too.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:21 / 18.04.03
yeah... I wondered if it was a kick overdose... but it seemed to contrived especially after the revelation of Jumbo Carnation's "murder"
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
16:23 / 18.04.03
Re: The Sublime thing. He has wings and god knows what else (one can implant a healing factor in the marvel universe, right?). From what I understand we never see a body. The U-Men in #136 refer to him very much like he's alive and kicking.

Just a though. Most likely I'm wrong on this.
 
 
louisemichel
17:27 / 18.04.03
A question...
When did Jean fight Emma ?
She says something about electrical psychic bolts, etc... was there another confrontation between Jean and Emma apart the one in the Hellfire Club saga, prior to the Dark Phoenix saga ?
Because... at that point, that wasn't Jean if I remember correctly, it was the Phoenix indeed but it wasn't Jean...
(I lost sight of X-men continuity... there may be another rumble I'm not aware of...)
 
 
Mike-O
17:34 / 18.04.03
The best way to get around that confusion is to just see it as though Jean and the Claremont-Era Phoenix were not one in the same, but still shared the same conciousness unitl the Phoenix's death.
 
 
LDones
18:37 / 18.04.03
In response to Chesed's post above: I don't feel like Jean's getting in touch w/ anyone's Tiphereth - certainly not in this issue. I'd say she's behaving a hell of a lot more along the lines of Geburah, and that it seems to me that's more where the Phoenix is coming from - I'm drawn to remembering the lines about Qlippoths in the Geburah issue of Promethea: About stern judgement without the judgement being simply rage. Actually, that issue brings a lot of other ideas to the fore about the Phoenix that click with me:

Geburah is the Fifth Sphere, Strength - Judgement. Mars, War, Strategy - Cold Decisions, Cold Judgement.

"Fire means will. Not human will, but the will that moves the suns and planets. Universal will."

"The energy of god crackles down into material existence through these spheres, these numbered stages. Here in Geburah, it's purged of any impurities. Anything flawed. Anything weak."

But beyond the Qlippothic entanglements and the harsh nature of the ideas behind it, if I'm reading into it right, Geburah is a testing ground - were worthiness to continue is assessed.

To paraphrase from Promethea again - The harshness of the judgement isn't meant to be cruel or unkind, it just can't afford to get sentimental. It must be stern. The energies at work in everything below must be pure. "Nothin' unworthy. No crap' Geburah is where the world gets the @#*& beaten out of it."

There's also a weird sexual connotation assigned to Geburah (at least in Promethea, which is just Magic 100/101 for fresh-starters like myself).

I think in past X-Men/Qaballah discussions there's been a tendency to put Jean and the Phoenix near the top of the Tree because of the obvious power-level. But Geburah seems a perfect fit to me, and strikes all sorts of chords with what's come before. And particularly in this issue - Emma's comment about Jean's purity, hating Scott for his weakness. The Phoenix's supposed goal of 'disinfection'. Jean's comments about the fire of the Phoenix burning through lies.

We've seen Jean as the mother-figure in X-Men already, giving (re)birth to Charles at the end of the Imperial arc - So I wonder, did she change roles, or did she simply find Charles worthy enough to be sent down the Tree again to Malkuth? And who exactly is going to be judged unworthy/disinfected from the planet (if anyone) - Mutant or mankind? Or maybe something more localized... Emma's certainly a possibility, but that strikes me as more Qlippothic rage than stern judgement.

I'm just meandering, really... Either way I'm convinced that the current incarnation of the Phoenix is Geburah, through and through, unless it/Jean HAS been changing roles, moving up or down the Tree of Life to some specific purpose.
 
 
Aertho
19:48 / 18.04.03
I understand what you mean about Geburah, but I'm pretty down with Promethea too. Though Phoenix as Geburah DOES exhibit some of the qualities of the wrathful God, I'm talking about the point where individual persona cracks and crumbles, exhibited in two of the Atu paths, Death and Devil. Both involve cathartic husking of repressions. You have to concentrate on the fact that Tiphereth is the combination and individual aspect of balancing Sphere 5 and Sphere 4. Phoenix we've seen is incredibly powerful and destructive, but the whole POINT of the Phoenix and the M'Kraan Crystal is The Give of Chesed. Phoenix CAN be incredibly constructive, we just never see it because people fear destructive elements.

And it's only Emma suggesting that she's being "judged". Emma's memories were all about personal transformations(yes, I know, the theme!) but the whole thing added up the pile of dead bodies in her past.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:12 / 18.04.03
I'm not sure "disinfection" equates to the death of X number of unworthy beings... ala Casandra's Mega-sentinal attack.

I'm begining to wonder if it equates more closely to how Charles' was disinfected and thus freed from the influence of his "Mumudri"

This could run into the "dissolution of opposites" theme as Phoenix burns away those lies that foster the illusions of seperateness. Isn't that what she did with Emma? Strip away the illusions that fostered her sence of supeiority.

As for Xorn vs. Phoenix...
There's in interesting parrallel in that one of Dark Phoenix's major feats was to drive a star towards supernova then consume it. What with the current dialogue on all conflict being mental conflicts I wonder how it could relate in that Xorn's brain is a star. maybe they'll become lovers after Jean devorces Scott.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:45 / 18.04.03
Please. Xorn is soooooooooo in love with Scott!
 
 
The Falcon
00:06 / 19.04.03
Three other possibilities on the Murder: a suicide, Cyclops, or the Cuckoos.

Maybe.
 
 
The Falcon
00:08 / 19.04.03
Jean took over Emma's brain in Uncanny 280-something. Also, a lot of those kids in pink and purple costumes, the Hellions, were killed by a dude called Fitzroy in, I think, #281 of said comic.
 
 
LDones
08:02 / 19.04.03
I'm still fairly new to the whole Tree of Life thing, but I can definitely see your point Chesed - if I'm not mistaken, you're intimating that the negative reactions to the Phoenix are essentially ones of fear, and that a more far-seeing benevolence lies beyond what look like hostile actions right now.

I'm un(?)fortunately woefully lax in my X-Men History courses, so the M'Kraan Crystal is just a reference I spot now and then on these boards - The history of the Phoenix in X-Men beyond Grant's continuity is largely unknown to me (aside from the super-obvious bits - eating stars, Is it or isn't it Jean, etc. and even then I'm largely clueless, though my girlfriend questions my sexuality for not knowing such things).

I had something pertinent to add to discussion of this month's issue, but I've completely forgotten it. Back to the drawing board...
 
 
glassonion
08:22 / 19.04.03
wow. just to go back a bit. 'i really got the king lear references in this issue'. wow.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:27 / 19.04.03
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that the prime suspect in a murder case is often the last person to be seen with the victim while they were alive...

What does adamantium do to diamond?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:25 / 19.04.03
Logan would have to be hacking away at her for HOURS to break her up as much as we see on the final page.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:14 / 19.04.03
What do you mean, glassonion?
 
 
Ellis says:
15:57 / 19.04.03
I liked what Wolverine said to Emma about trying to brweak up Scott and Jean "Nice try though" or something similar, did anyone else think that sounded totally wicked and quite unlike him?

Unless Scott and Jean have to be broken up for them to move on, I mean they have been together forever, it's old and this is new X-Men.
 
 
Aertho
16:21 / 19.04.03
That's exactly what I'm intimating, LDones. Phoenix is basically getting each person it "burns" to push themselves through "their enemy within" -the lies they tell themsleves. Emma's biggest revelation was that she was indeed in love with Scott, that she DID in fact have intense personal feelings for him... (in some ways, similar to her love for all her dead students[different thread]) Emma only thinks she toys with men, that she "helps" them along, that she provided "sex therapy" to Scott, but that's not the whole truth... Phoenix pushed Emma through that lie and straight into the truth of her own emotions.

Anyone confronted with something they believe to be true and find it a lie would believe it the messenger of the process of unfolding the lie to be hostile -that's real life. But it's also Grant's representation of the Phoenix Force. This is really just the theme of the Invisibles last volume encapsulated into a characterization.

Tell your girlfriend that the M'Kraan Crystal(I'm not quite sure myself) is a crystal that is symbioteic for the universe, crack it, and the universe cracks... Phoenix fixes it.

I think I liked what Wolverine said to Emma about trying to break up Scott and Jean. "Nice try though" was a bit of fecescious humor. Scott and Jean have a childish relationship that NEEDS to grow up. Emma sliding in where Logan used to be is a Good Move, Logan knows that, and he knows how hard loving one part of the unit can be.
 
 
Uatu.is.watching
17:59 / 19.04.03
Charles: "If I actually dared come any further into your conciousness, all my thoughts would turn to ash."

Jean: "Only the ones you don't need in the light."
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:29 / 19.04.03
Um, the "nice try" remark was just Logan making a joke out of his unrequited love for Jean.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
19:13 / 19.04.03
I think that the structure and published descriptions of the "Assualt on Weapon Plus" are becoming clearer, though. It looks like it may just be the Scott getting down with all those "bad thoughts" arc.

Especially with a lineup of FantomeX, Logan and Scott.

On the issue at hand, though... I want to say this is Emma's Shamanic Initiation, but Morrison has played pretty hard with Death being final. (And yet not final at all...) I'm actually at a loss for what will happen next.
 
 
Persephone
21:53 / 19.04.03
I'm sure I'm missing something because I only started reading X-Men at #114, but there's never been any chemistry between Jean & Scott to me. The whole time it's been looking at a dead relationship. The one moment I can think of as being at all warm between them was when Scott blasted back from the Shi'ar spaceship, remember, and Jean said he was her favorite superhero; and even that seemed sad, the way people who *used* to go out talk to each other. It's a little tiresome, it's like when you have friends who really should just break up and they just keep crying on and on your shoulder... only one of them is a super-powerful mutant that everyone's afraid of. I hated how Charles tried to hold back Scott from annoying the Phoenix. If the Phoenix is worth her salt, she'll burn away this lie that Scott and Jean have this special holy bond that's keeping them together forever...ugh, it's a death sentence, their relationship is a corpse that they need to let go.

That said, I think this was the best beginning to a story since I've started reading NXM. I wonder what it feels like to get the Phoenix treatment?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:16 / 19.04.03
I've been following the X-Men since I was a little kid, and I've never thought that Scott and Jean had even the slightest bit of chemistry, save for some hyper-romantic nonsense from Claremont about them being destined to be together, the whole star-crossed lover shtick that he loves so much. At the worst of times, Scott and Jean seem to be whiney and codependent, and the best, they are just going through the motions of longterm commitment.

It's also worth remembering what Scott did after Jean died for the first time - after a few failed flings, he meets a woman named Madelyne who looks *exactly* like Jean and marries her. They have a kid, and not even a year after his birth, he finds out that Jean is alive and abandons the both of them. After Madelyne is revealed to be a clone of Jean, goes insane, and is killed; Scott gets custody of his son again, but loses him within a year by sending him off into the future to eventually become Cable. Scott and Jean continue on with their relationship, but they don't see each other very often because they are on two different X-Men teams. A flirtation develops between Scott and another telepath on the team named Psylocke, but that never gets anywhere. He eventually marries Jean, but apparently for no good reason other than that they had been together for a long time.

Now, it should be noted that a lot of the total lack of romantic spark in Scott and Jean's relationship has come from writers who never seem to know what to do with them other than make them the de facto mom and dad of the X-family. There's enough in the characters' history to suggest that Scott and Jean are deeply unhappy codependents who seem trapped by each other, but go through extended mourning periods during each other's apparent deaths. Think about that - they've both had to come to terms with the loss of the other in very final terms in their lives. They both got used to the idea of never seeing the other again, but they came back. That must be a weird dynamic.

Scott is fascinating to me, and I'm really glad that Grant Morrison is examining how much of a complicated mess he is.

Any theories as to why Scott only feels comfortable with telepaths? I think he just prefers not having to actually say things. There's probably a lot of ways of looking at it, as well as plenty of psychological reasons as to why telepaths (including Xavier, his adoptive father figure) are drawn to him.
 
 
ciarconn
00:10 / 20.04.03
I suspect that the real reason that made Jean angry was that she noticed that Emma was in love with Scott. For starters, a simple sexual off-marriage relationship might not be as humilliating as an emotional affair (which implies a total infidelity). Besides, Jean might have noticed now that she doesn't love Scott anymore (and perhaps she never did). So Emma had better feelings for Scott that Jean, who has been deceiving and repressing Scott. Maybe Jean was angry at Emma because she showed her the truth about the relationship with Scott.

AS to Scott's relationships with telepaths, Scott is all about repression. And telepaths allow him to express himself without letting go. In a way, Psylocke started to lead him the same way Ema did. By giving him the chance to do what is forbidden. What Jean cannot accept because she is too pure (even if she cann't explain her flirtations with Wolverine). Many times Scott didn't have to speak to express his feelings to Jean, he didn't have to demonstrate his lack of social skills.

I hope that Cycke manages to beat his inner demons, now that he has to face them finally.
 
 
Mike-O
00:30 / 20.04.03
I think the most we could hope to be explored out of all of this would be to finally see Jean and Scott split. I think it'd be interesting to see the unexpected explored through Scott and Emma trying to make it work, and to shatter the expected if Logan and Jean finally realized there wasn't that much to their dynamic without the tension between them, keeping them apart.

I think there could be hope yet for Emma and Scott, that perhaps they can help eachother to put themselves back together... as difficult a process as that would be. (and no pun intended with Emma there...)

Thoughts?
 
 
perceval
03:50 / 20.04.03

The thing about Logan is he's always accepted Jean for who she is, and has loved her unconditionally. He's never freaked out over things the way Scott always has.

He's also the person who could probably benefit the most from what she has to offer, now. He actually WANTS to sort out all that stuff from his past.

E
 
  

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