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SPOILERS: Order of the Phoenix

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:22 / 17.07.03
It seems to me there's a suggestion Malfoy - or at least some of the Slytherins - may end up on Harry's side.
 
 
Persephone
13:29 / 17.07.03
I did like the bit about Voldemort basically having created his own mortal enemy in Harry Potter, not knowing the full prophecy. That Harry is partially a product of V's own choices and psychology. So now I'm waiting for Harry to get a grip and make some right choices about the person he needs to be.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:31 / 17.07.03
It seems to me there's a suggestion Malfoy - or at least some of the Slytherins - may end up on Harry's side.

I think that the best thing Rowling could do is rebuild the Slytherin's from the ground up. At school it always feels like you're segregated in to these stupid little groups but they're always swapping and changing. Perhaps the next book will start to sensibly rearrange friendships and recreate the Slytherin's accordingly. She's padded out quite a lot of characters in OotP so maybe a couple more will get done as well.

Ok. I admit that I just want a Draco with a character.
 
 
Persephone
23:53 / 17.07.03
Tut, if I were J.K. Rowling... I would lurk around Barbelith and come out with a new Slytherin prefect, slightly imperious with strong opinions about fashion & named Anna de Logardiere. And so I would. Somebody send out an email, I am totally serious... this is a great idea. Draco would wet his pants. Can't you see her in Potions class: Did anyone else think that was an appallingly bad apology!? or I really don't think that you consider your own opinion humble.

Who's Rowling's model for the female Slytherins, anyway? Margaret Thatcher?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
05:47 / 18.07.03
Funny I thought she already had, tall, dresses in black, interesting hair, always ready with a cruel put-down... this Autumn the Slytherin ClubHaus IS Snape.

"Mister Potter, this potion is completely useless. Ten points from Gryfindor and you get to wear the Doomlord mask for the week."
 
 
Persephone
13:23 / 18.07.03
But I'm perfectly serious, I may be missing something obvious... is it a British class satire, maybe? Why are the Slytherin girls such troglodytes? E.g., Pansy Parkinson and Margaret Bulstrode. Or really, all the younger generation Slytherins with the exception of Draco. There's so much more room for characterization and still be in the Slytherin mold. I can think of half a dozen characters that could write themselves, basically.
 
 
invisible_al
15:07 / 18.07.03
Yes it does kind of de-value the hero's when the opposite side seem to have nothing but morons in the junior side. Where are the up and comming vilians and Villainess's of tommorrow, in my head there should be at least a few Slytherin women making a play to wrap Harry round their fingers in some sort of evil scheme or perhaps just to cruelly play with his affections and then point and laugh.

And where are the intelligent villians of tommorrow, perhaps because of this pure blood nonsense the Malfoy family gene pool is getting rather shallow, Draco isn't a patch on Lucius and theres no one even close to a Voldemort in the junior leagues...hmmm no far too Star Wars to have a 'join the dark side' moment. Perhaps they're just hiding really well and biding their time, would be nice to have some competant Slytherin's.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:37 / 18.07.03
But who is there on the side of good outside of Harry, Hermione, the Weasleys and Neville? Cho kept threatening to break out in to three dimensions and there were occasional bursts of colour from others, but generally everyone that is in the Gryffindor Quiditch team that isn't one of the special people is generally singleminded about Quiditch. Rowling seems to go for one thing to mention about a character as a short-cut to characterisation. Remember Draco's relationship with Crabbe and Goyle when Harry and Ron were disguised as them in book two?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:40 / 19.07.03
The characters certainly are badly characterised a lot of the time - it's as if Rowling doesn't quite know what to do with them when they're not advancing the plot, and so they tend to flop about a bit. Cho is just *awful*, and having Hermione explain why she was behaving like a series of programmed responses after every encounter hardly helped. Nice touch to have Ginnie stop fancying Harry, less nice touch to see that she is turning into yet another bloody wise-before-her-years woman-child.

In general, though, I enjoyed this far more than I expected, partly perhaps because it is moving onto some of the big, reasonably important things finally, although in doing so reveals further the rather embarrassing fact that Rowling is making up the entire world as she goes along. There are some really nice set pieces, and some occasional moments of definite "yay!", such as the point where Fred and George go postal, and the further moment when, after everyone has mocked Hermione for two books solid for her attitude to house-elves, Dumbledore comments that actually they are victims of institutionalised and internalised oppresion (doesn't stop him having them doing the cooking, though...). Too many characters who didn't do enough, though - Zacharias Smith (for FUCK'S SAKE), Tonks, and once again Snape and Malfoy are criminally wasted, Malfoy in particular - and did the writer forget that she ended the *last* book with Malfoy getting humiliated by curses on the train home? Is this going to happen every time?

Going into "Ounce of Sense" territory, I might hope that next time around, since Malfoy's father has been discredited and thrown into Azkaban (a rather short-sighted policy given that it is now completely empty of guards), and his family name utterly besmirched, and that he is a member of a house which represents only 25% of the student body, the rest of whom all think Harry is wonderful again, Potter could feel a little less fucking put-upon. I'm just sayin'. There's a lot of really interesting stuff about Malfoy - how he might feel about his father, how Snape might be affecting his upbringing, what role he will have now he no longer represents the wizarding élite but a disgraced house. In fact Slytherin, as it is represented only by a series of thugs and pugs, is being annoyngly underexplored.

I do rather wish that Dumbledore hadn't exonerated Gryffindor Princess Potter of all wrongdoing *again*, also; if he had not been such a shitty student, topping it off by rifling through the memories of another human being, and one who had on more than one occasion saved his life, and is risking his life to help protect him, then Sirius Black would not have died. Simple as that, really.

And, as has been mentioned, the prophesy was weak, weak, weak.

Good fun, though. I do still wish she was a more rounded and able writer, but her capacity to create readable and involving plots with sketchy but largely engaging characters, if nothing more, deserves props.

And, like Southey, she has inspired great work through her example.

The classroom door banged open with a crash, and Harry Potter half-fell into the room. He was staring-eyed, and his robes were smeared with what looked like luminous yellow paint. He glared at Flitwick. "SO WHAT IF I'M LATE?" he bellowed. "WHAT RIGHT HAVE ANY OF YOU TO JUDGE ME?"

"Potter's in a strop again," muttered Draco wearily.

"Well, he's got a lot to be upset about," said Neville indignantly.

"Oh, shut up, Longbottom," said Draco.

Unfortunately he had spoken so loudly that he had attracted Harry's attention. Harry stared at him in fury. "WHY THE HELL IS MALFOY ORANGE?" he demanded of no one in particular. He glared around at his silent classmates. "FINE, DON'T TELL ME. NOBODY EVER TELLS ME ANYTHING."

"Mister Malfoy," Flitwick squeaked. "Ten points from Slytherin for upsetting Harry and coming to class orange. Now sit down."


I want to write a story in which, during their sixth form, Draco and Goyle start dating, but, realising that he cannot possibly introduce him to his insane and thoroughly bigoted mother for fear of losing what remains of the family assets, Malfoy concocts a plan to trick her into giving her blessing by using polyjuice potion to disguise his lover as patsy Parkinson.

This story shall feature the line "Goyle, I want to take you to a gay bar".

And the line "Goyle, you'll be a woman soon."

That is all.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
08:26 / 20.07.03
Draco cast his eyes heavenward. "Just the way I wanted to spend the evening, picking explosives off a pelican that used to be Potter."

That's made my day.
 
 
Mono
10:56 / 22.07.03
I do wish that JKR was a better writer. But after reading OotP, I'm re-reading the rest. I think that the owl delivering my acceptance letter got lost trying to cross the atlantic.

Loved Luna, the Weasley twins, still have a crush on Ron. And then there was Neville. I don't like your musings about bis death, loz...I would weep like a f*ing baby. He is by far my favourite character and the only one who has consistantly brough tears to my blurry, have-been-reading-for-way-too-long eyes.
 
 
that
10:26 / 25.07.03
Hm. Wasn't sure where to put this, really, but starting a new thread would be overkill, and this kind of seemed like the best place. Here is a picture (apparently) of Gary Oldman as Sirius (with Alan Rickman and Rupert Grint and a couple of girls). I was curious about how he'd look, and this link arrived in my email today, so I thought some others of you might also be interested.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:37 / 25.07.03
He looks... cold, but then they all look cold. I think that's all right, isn't it? Not too dusty, but then I didn't have a huge amount riding on Sirius anyway.
 
 
that
10:44 / 25.07.03
I think he's close enough, basically, and Gary Oldman should work really well.

I'm always surprised when I realise afresh just how good the adult casting for the Potter films actually is...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:52 / 25.07.03
Doesn't look particularly cadaverous and ghoul-like, which is what ISTR Sirius is like in 'Prisoner', but then special effects are wonderful these days. Who are the two girls flanking Ron?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:02 / 25.07.03
If that isn't Alan Rickman's daughter I will be genuinely astounded.
 
 
that
11:12 / 25.07.03
Yeah...and I think his hair's supposed to be quite a bit longer, too. But I still reckon it's a pretty good effort, especially considering it's just a casual snapshot. Doesn't jar too badly with how I expected Sirius to look...which isn't quite the same thing as getting all the details spot on.

No clue re. the girls.
 
 
that
11:14 / 25.07.03
That was supposed to follow on from Flowers' post, btw.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:55 / 25.07.03
Alan Rickman has kids? Ummm...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:26 / 25.07.03
I don't know... she looks like him. No kids, a niece? Two random girls from the set? I don't know anything about Alan Rickman because, ever so oddly, I've never met him.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:11 / 25.07.03
I don't think I've met him either - although you can never tell with these actor types. They use make-up, you know...

Am I being an idiot asking who's taking over from the magnificent Richard Harris?
 
 
that
17:27 / 25.07.03
Michael Gambon is going to be Dumbledore for PoA.
 
 
that
17:31 / 25.07.03
I'd just like to mention that, despite appearances, I don't even like the Potter films.

Just wanted to clear that up.
 
 
alas
14:49 / 07.02.04
I don't know if anyone is interested in more Harry Potter talk, this far into the lull between tomes, but my daughter sent me this feminist analysis of the feminist critique of HP, and I think it's pretty right-on. From our friends at Bitchmagazine.
Thoughts?
 
 
gingerbop
16:11 / 07.02.04
When does the 6th one come out? Will it be yearsandyears again, or yet undetermined?

I used to think it was sooo overhyped. And I suppose to an extent I still do, but they're truly addictive.

I have only seen the first film, but thoroughly disliked it. Made me shout at the tv a lot, when they chopped and changed it. The end made me really mad- Harry, not Hermione worked out the potions thing. She was praised, in the end, for "cool use of intellect" (re: big scary plants) and not use of logic as it should have been. If there were that amount of discrepancies in a 200 page book, I dread to think the travesties there will be for the 5th film. Either a 24 hour pant-wetting epic, or very brief details of the book. They couldnt split it into two films, surely?
 
 
Jack Fear
21:31 / 07.02.04
Any tightening done to ORDER in the translation from book to movie can only be a good thing, IMHO--it was a flabby, repetitious piece of writing.

And remember, too, that a lot of the page count is taken up with descriptive passages and action sequences: the fight in the Department of Mysteries, for instance, goes on for pages and pages--but it will probably only translate into eight minutes of screen time.

And hey! Can somebody tell me exactly what was the point of having Sirius give Harry that damned magic mirror? It doesn't make the ending any more poignant; it just makes the reader cry, "Why didn't that four-eyed numpty-headed wand-jockey use that to communicate with Sirius instead of the fire in Umbridge's office, ye great filthy-rich hen-scratcher, ye? Richest woman in the world or no, you're a disgrace to your O.B.E.!"
 
 
Cat Chant
19:35 / 15.02.04
Embarrassing Fangirl Question (answer needed fairly urgently): can anyone remember what NEWTs Hermione, Ron and Harry all decided on? I know Harry had to keep doing Potions and DADA to be an Auror (so, presumably, did Ron) - did Hermione ever make a decision? Did we ever even find out?

Argh. I am going to have to go and look through that fucking 900-page book, aren't I? Damn her. I wish she would release them in a searchable format.
 
 
wicker woman
03:58 / 20.02.04
A quick one. Since previews for PoA are circulating now, am I the only one that thinks the previews alone are a step or two above the previous movies since crappy ol' Chris Columbus got relegated to the role of producer? The dementor (or at least its' arm, anyways) looked fantastic, and the preview seemed to carry a distinctly darker tone that I don't think Mr. Home Alone could have managed.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:59 / 05.03.04
Seems as good a place as any to mention this: La Rowling says she may continue writing Harry even once his Hogwarts career is over.

Which is kind of a massive spoiler--i.e., an acknowledgement that Harry's gonna survive all seven books--when you think about it.
 
 
grant
17:11 / 08.03.04
Gotta milk that cow, milk that cow....

She oughtta make a whole new series, like the Island Stallion books that came out after the Black Stallion books. I like the Island Stallion better, myself.

Anyway, I can't remember the details with the mirror, but wasn't it stated that "all channels are being watched" or something? Rowling's got an easy out there, since we don't know how magic actually works. The gag with the communication between paintings was interesting -- I'm rereading this one now (when the boy is in the mood for reading aloud vs. blasting videogame opponents to hell) and can't recall if the portrait of Lestrange Kreacher squirrels away in his den is explicitly stated as a backchannel to Voldemort's buddies or not. Cuz it's seeming obvious to me now, but that might be because I've read the thing before. Glory of absentmindedness, see?
 
 
grant
17:20 / 08.03.04
Any tightening done to ORDER in the translation from book to movie can only be a good thing, IMHO--it was a flabby, repetitious piece of writing.

She's fallen to the same weakness I've seen in Stephen King's short stories from the mid-80s onward (as far as I know) -- gotten too big to be edited properly. King's stuff from that period (and maybe now) ALWAYS had typos and spelling errors in it, and was always a little too long for its own good. Writers all have vices, and King's seemed to be favoring speed over spelling. Rowling seems to go on and on. So many sentences that are either redundant or else just overdescriptive and telling not showing... and trailing onward and onward. Very hard to read aloud.

can anyone remember what NEWTs Hermione, Ron and Harry all decided on? I know Harry had to keep doing Potions and DADA to be an Auror (so, presumably, did Ron) - did Hermione ever make a decision? Did we ever even find out?



Again, absentmindedness, but I don't think they make any formal decision. Hermione, actually, seemed ready to go her own way, if I remember right. I do recall the choices of professions seemed laid out in a very "you do this, or this, or this and that's it" kind of way.

Which leads to...
alas:my daughter sent me this feminist analysis of the feminist critique of HP, and I think it's pretty right-on. From our friends at Bitchmagazine.
Thoughts?


I think the latest installment pretty much undermines that writer's analysis, because Hermione is recast as a subversive & even an activist for change -- she's not a rule-bound wet blanket at all. Of course, the nemesis is a woman too, the very personification of shrill rule-boundedness. But Umbridge is positioned very much (I think) as a sort of fake woman, like she's trying to grab onto the superficial trappings of womanhood (painted nails, frou-frou ornaments, floral dresses, and most importantly, the way her voice changes from low croak to sticky-sweet high) while not being gendered at all... not being human at all.

Anyway, Hermione -- who's set up in this book as a sexual woman, by the way, offering dating advice to Harry, having a secret correspondence with a boyfriend, all that jazz -- is her nemesis, while Harry is more just dealing with all sorts of OTHER challenges (primarily, his brain-link with Voldemort).
 
 
Jack Fear
12:31 / 14.03.04
She's fallen to the same weakness I've seen in Stephen King's short stories from the mid-80s onward (as far as I know) -- gotten too big to be edited properly.

"Edit," nuthin'--that's the kind of thing that should come out in the second draft, long before it ever gets to an editor's desk.

I blame word processors: there are things that you would catch in the process of physically re-typing a manuscript that just slip by you in the electronic cut-and-shuffle. The whole pardigm of writing changes, from more-or-less linear motion to a more... sculptural, modular approach, you know? Less like making a chain and more like building with Lego.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:29 / 16.03.04
Well, to be fair, it's a big article based on speculation based on a sentence taken out of context, she might have meant that she'd write a book set in that world which has got twisted into 'Harry Potter will go on forever announces megolamaniac author!!' But seriously, if she really ends the series withou Harry dying, how will that not suck? I presume either Dumbledore or Ron will perish vanquishing Voldemort and she'll promote it by saying how she'd almost killed the population of a medium sized country with grief after she wrote the strange unmoving chapter...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
17:17 / 02.12.04
I wish they'd just call Voldemort Tom.

"Yo Tom! Fuck you!" he said in an undertone. Do you often talk in an undertone, and then have your cheeks flush or go crimson (or any of around 5 possible descriptions for blushing) while endlessly repeating the *gasp* of breath because you can't say Voldemort? Say TOM!

"Dude, Tom's back."
"Tom who?"
"Y'know, Lord Tom?"
"Whoa."
"Totally wants a war." he said in an undertone.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:31 / 02.12.04
"RIDDLE ME THIS, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!" he bellowed (or shouted, or yelled, or screamed).
 
  

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