BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Comic Books >

Ultimates #7

  
  

Page: (1)23

 
 
Sebastian
18:41 / 24.10.02
Okay, the previews are probably all around the web. Impressive panel of St. Patrick, the art seems definitely to be much worthy to have been waited for, and if you ask me I prefer to wait if I know in advance I'll get this graphic quality work in a comic book.

Just a question, doesn't it strike you as a little bit odd that we find ourselves now witnessing this mass which I suppose honors the victims of the Hulk's rampage? Because the dinner at Tony's place in issue 6 supposeddly took place already about two weeks later of the team's "adventure" with Banner, but maybe its the way such masses are done.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:27 / 25.10.02
Yeah, all the arrangements and all tyhat and who cares.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:59 / 31.10.02
Right, can we just talk about this ish without anyone butting in with a "But don't you just think the whole thing's shit" and/or "I'm really not into Mark Millar"? Please?

Goood......

I'm enjoying the way, as someone else pointed out on another Ultimates thread, Millar gives me the feeling he's very happy to play w/ viewpoints entirely opposed to his own. I can guarantee that he doesn't approve of secret military/govt stuff, but that doesn't stop his characters from playing the "we'll keep Banner on tap and bullshit the general public" card. The moral tightrope Fury and co. are walking with Bannerhulk is very, very wibbly indeed: on the one hand this is real "secret state" shit and "NO! Wrong!", on the other hand it's probably better than some of the extreme, "destroy all monsters!", tactics our real world leaders appear to have adopted. Millar understands that this book couldn't deal with a govt sponsored super team and STILL appeal 100% to liberal ideology. I like.

What else do I like?

- Well, I just knew Widow and Hawkeye etc would have to do the stealth-work, so to speak. She's a spy and he uses a silent weapon, they can't be loud and proud and bright spandex. It's nice to see them. What are they up to?

- I love the fact that all Cap's best pals are oldies. How many superheroes hang out with Grandma and Grandad (Spiderman doesn't count - Aunt May isn't his mate)? And, is it just me, or does Bucky look a bit jealous when Gail and Cap start swapping compliments? Does Cap still fancy her? In all the moaning people miss this shit and it's really good...really weird... the kind of fucked (IN A GOOD WAY) psychology that could only be born in the superverse. Asks interesting questions....

- Millar's acknowledgement, through Betty, that there IS something sickeningly hokey and sentimental and bad taste about big memorial services w/ banners and poems and massive cathedrals; but also, through Cap, Gail and Bucky, the recognition that maybe there IS a need for it and that one man's evil naffness is another's catharsis.
Good, complex stuff. Again, while Mark may not be in the Cap and gang zone, he still attempts (and I think successfully) to portray, recognise and understand their take as the perfectly valid viewpoint it undoubtedly is.

- Thor fighting the Midgard Serpent and Loki! Huzzah! The Shrodinger's Cat of the team. Is he? Isn't he? I can't wait for the story that focuses on him.

- Well...you asked for it! Cap's gonna fucking slay Pym.

I love the Ultimates - just hate the delays.

And to all those of you that go on about how it's not original...well...maybe not, but, as far as I'm concerned, it represents the high water mark/perfection of the widescreen genre. It's certainly the best rationalisation of the Avengers....
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:22 / 31.10.02
slow down, the runce!

my copy (nice cuv btw) is sitting unread in my outbox.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:27 / 31.10.02
I liked this issue.
 
 
Tamayyurt
14:31 / 31.10.02
Has this come out yet?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:40 / 31.10.02
Cameron – Barbelith is highly respected for it quality criticism – glad to see you’re raising the bar once more!

ps. Scored yer catwumman the day – looks very good. Not read it yet, art looks magic tho.
 
 
kid coagulant
14:46 / 31.10.02
I like the idea of having 'stealth' and 'public' teams. Was wondering how they were going to handle Wanda and Pietro. Looking forward to the PR conflagration when all of the dirty tricks go public.
 
 
The Natural Way
14:55 / 31.10.02
Yeah, the "mutants" line stumped me a bit. Wanda and Pietro are, at this point in the story, still heading the fucking brotherhood. Are they moonlighting w/ the govt. on the side? I mean, Prosimian was bitching (over in UXM) about how they've been hobnobbing with hume politicians. We'll see...
 
 
Sebastian
15:08 / 31.10.02
Wanda and Pietro are, at this point in the story, still heading the fucking brotherhood

Yes, and I thought they were actually fucking their own brotherhood, in at least two senses of meaning and action, according to that Utlimatea #8 cover with both of them. I kinda wanted to ask to readers of UXM, has this incest thing been even suggested in that title? No? Oh, I knew it, UXM is for kiddies.
 
 
kid coagulant
15:09 / 31.10.02
I've only read the first 2 'Ultimate X-Men' trades, so I'm kind of behind w/ what's going on over there. Care to bring me up to date on all of that? Something about the Hellfire Club in the current storyline, and Kitty Pryde is on the team now? Just assuming Black Widow was referring to Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, but perhaps she's talking about other mutants? Maybe they've got a Weapon XII program up and running or something...
 
 
The Natural Way
15:17 / 31.10.02
Well, as I said: Wanda and Pierto are in charge of an increasingly hume friendly brotherhood, but there's mutiny brewing in the ranks.... The more militant elements have just been made aware of the fact that Magneto is still alive and the shit's gonna hit the fan. Just a matter of time till Ultimate war and Quicksilver and Sis are ousted.

The new story arc is pretty good.
 
 
gergsnickle
17:06 / 31.10.02
I liked this issue too, though I found the Wasp/Giant-Man fight's aftermath more than a little disturbing. And this is Marvel's kiddie line, huh? Beyond that, I hope that this doesn't mean Hank Pym is gonna get his butt kicked by the star spangled scourge of righteousness (oh yeah, like that's NOT gonna happen). I find this whole spousal abuse by ant proxy very, um, unsettling, but I wouldn't mind seeing the overly-earnest Cap get his butt kicked. Who knows, maybe with those 'aliens' being skrulls (according to Millar comments months ago) maybe Giant-Man and the Wasp are just skrulls posing as a dysfunctional couple to cause in-fighting on the team. Yeah right. I hope we don'y have to wait months to see what happens next.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:10 / 31.10.02
I hate to say it, but I bought it and liked it. Definitely the best issue thus far... It makes me feel all dirty and wrong, and there's still loads of things that get under my skin when I read it, but I approve of this issue.

Hitch is going crazy with the photo-referencing, isn't he? It's all so amazingly well-rendered. He's a major talent.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:20 / 31.10.02
Yeah I liked the ish as well...

I figure Wanda & Pietro are trying to establish a sort of legit front for their cause and have been in dialogue with Nick Fury about it...
also I figure Nick want's an iside line to mutantdom as well.

Betty's confession was disturbing...
 
 
CameronStewart
20:41 / 31.10.02
>>>Cameron – Barbelith is highly respected for it quality criticism – glad to see you’re raising the bar once more!<<<

Pblllblblbllt.

Given my usual grumpy-bastardness regarding this title, exceeded only by mi amigo Flux=Whatever It Is Today, my concise review of this issue should carry immense weight.



>>>Scored yer catwumman the day – looks very good. Not read it yet, art looks magic tho.<<<

Fanks. Just wrapped issue 15 and it's leaps and bounds ahead of 12, in my opinion. Getting comfortable drawing a monthly book at last...

Back to Ultimates-talk.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:27 / 01.11.02
Yr not that grumpy about it, really.

Now....interestingly, it seems this arc is going to be heavier on the ACTION. Widow and Hawkeye are on target for some serious alien-busting and Thor's already on the scene.

And as for Giant Man caning Cap.... Puhlease! (Oh, well, maybe....) This going to be nasty and good - anyone with eyes could see it coming.

So...acksheeeONNN! That'll keep you happy for a little while, won't it Cam? You've been bemoaning the lack of dustups for aaaages.

Another thing - just noticed Betty's nod to Jan's not "liking herself very much." Of course! Her Mutation = serious self-hatred = allowing herself to remain in an abusive relationship. Hank's managed to convince her that she's disgusting enough that nobody else would ever want her and, somewhere inside, she feels she deserves it all anyway. Neat and economical. Cod psychology, but it works.
 
 
Chubby P
08:53 / 01.11.02
The main implication of Wanda and Pietro incestual relationship can be found in "Ultimate X-Men issue Half" that came free with Wizard I believe. Whether this will be included in a trade who knows? Heres the page with the main implication. Ultimate X-men Half Page 15
 
 
Sebastian
10:16 / 01.11.02
Hank's managed to convince her that she's disgusting enough that nobody else would ever want her

Nah, Hulk horny for her, Hulk wanna play with Jan, Hulk wanna see boobs again, Hulk's pants have just ripped.
 
 
e-n
10:59 / 01.11.02
So did anyone notice that in the scenes set outside the church theres a woman in a purple outfit and wide brimmed hat that's in almost every frame? Is it continuity oir something else?
Or am I thick?
 
 
CameronStewart
14:00 / 01.11.02
Hmmm...now that you've pointed it out, it does seem like they're deliberately drawing attention to her. It may be merely Hitch just keeping panel-to-panel continuity but the obscured face seems like it may be something more.

Purple outfit...

But it's entirely equally likely that it's nothing at all.
 
 
Sax
05:31 / 02.11.02
Not having read advance previews of the Ultimates I may have missed something obvious, but what are the alien sleeper agents that Black Widow and Hawkeye are tackling? Skrulls?

And is the skull graffiti all over the basement where the black ops team are waiting significant? Punisher-related? He wasn't very much in the Avengers' radar, though, was he?

One other thing that slightly niggled - everyone was running around wondering where Hank Pym had gone and it took Captain America - a man from 1945 - to have the nouse to go to the Triskelion computer room and use the fancy programme that locates each and every Ultimates member right down to the bar they're boozing in? I would have thought someone else might have had this idea first...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:03 / 02.11.02
Ah, thanks for pointing out that purple hat woman - looking at those pages, it's hard to imagine that was a mistake, especially the way she hovers around Captain America. Interesting pony-tail on that one too...

I'm not sure what it might be, but it seems very deliberate. Who knows. It might be the Scarlet Witch, and the man she joins in her last panel might be Quicksilver.

I doubt they're working the Punisher into this, even though that IS the Punisher skull logo in the black ops training place.
 
 
gergsnickle
15:51 / 02.11.02
I don't think you missed anything obvious, Sax, I just seem to remember something in comic shop news months ago mentioning that Millar's run would involve the skrulls, so I'm guessing that's what these aliens are.

Good point about Cap being the only one to use the computer to find Hank. That's funny.
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:47 / 02.11.02
Well, everyone was pretty much either shocked or worrying about the PR angle. Cap has seen horrible shit and has survival modifications. So he processed the information quickly and quietly and made a decision. It doesn't matter that he's from the 40's. He's a soldier and an expert with thinking on his feet. The computer just made the job easier.
 
 
gergsnickle
16:58 / 02.11.02
Alright, you've convinced me.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:28 / 03.11.02
god, I hate religious verse in comics.

and cap's smile is beginning to bug me. But I think it's mean't to.

Looks like the younger generation rate Thor more than Cap too.

A 'Thanks Thor' crayon poster providing the evidence.

Dunno - bit too much grandstanding and show-boating from Millar and Hitch for me in this one.

Tho Fury's initial comments to Black Widow remain a series highlight in dialogue terms.

'Hawkeye and I...', responds Black Widow to something or other.

Och aye the noo!

Some of the exposition seemed lumpen to me. 'We've got a PUBLIC team and A PRIVATE team!' - ohhhh, righhhtttt. I see.

Colouring was tops.
 
 
gergsnickle
12:57 / 03.11.02
Yeah, it's mainly Cap's smile that makes me want Giant-Man to sit on him, come to think of it.
 
 
The Falcon
13:55 / 03.11.02
god, I hate religious verse in comics.

Even by former trainee priest Mark Millar? Look at the way the verse was used. God, this comic is spectacularly cynical; I mean that in the best possible way.

Millar's remixing and amping up Marvel history to an exponentially crass level. I love it.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
18:39 / 03.11.02
DF: I'm sure Millar is using it to superb effect. To be honest the reason I don't like rv is because I've never been able to understand it or get it's rhythyms correct.

To expand on the 'thanks thor' observation: don't really know what the power structure of the Avengers was; who was boss? IM, CA or Thor?

but

in the world depicted by millar thor seems like the politically astute choice for leader - he's got that global village feel as well as undeground appeal. kinda anti-national.

Oh, and he's a god.

I never bought thor as a Marvel superhero when I was a kid. I'd met him through mythology and I thought Marvel were cheating. He just didn't fit as far as i was concerned.

But thick ole millar has actually managed to perk my interest in the hammer lover.

Just where the ufck is this character coming from? What is he all about?

Anti-cap (hah) demos? fighting mythical serpents? claims he's a god?

He still doesn't fit but this time round that's purty cool.

I'd love for him to be diagnosed a Shizoid.
 
 
The Falcon
21:40 / 03.11.02
I might be enormously wrong and showing ignorance, when instead my intent is to impress, but the verse reminds me of John Donne. He wrote some fairly similar stuff, anyway. 12 lines; it's hard to read cut up like that, but then the only memorable film recording of verse I've seen is John Hannah doing Auden in the otherwise spectacularly awful 'Four Weddings and a Funeral'.

I had that big book about Marvel by Les Daniels (still do, actually) where there was a page, from Avengers #57, of Ultron's broken body, with Shelley's 'Ozymandias' played, as it were, over the top. The meter is preserved, though, where it isn't here. Which enhances my idea that Mark Millar is comics top (modernist) sampler/remixer. T.S. Eliot ("artists steal") to Morrion's Ezra Pound, anyone? Without the dodgy anti-semitism, and so on.

O!, and Thor fukkin ROOLZ!
 
 
The Falcon
21:45 / 03.11.02
Yeah, it's mainly Cap's smile that makes me want Giant-Man to sit on him, come to think of it.

I actually want Cap to feed the wifebeating prick every single one of his ants, incrementally. He's interesting: conservative values as heroic - it's obvious, and can work, at least here.

(You don't know how hard that sentence was to write.)
 
 
The Falcon
21:53 / 03.11.02
To expand on the 'thanks thor' observation: don't really know what the power structure of the Avengers was; who was boss? IM, CA or Thor?


Sorry, I'm post-count-padding ('cos it matters so much to me.) Nah, I like to keep 'em short, and I forgot this.

Cap was generally leader, except if he wasn't there (there was some UN tie-up for a while, when they were supposed to do what S.H.I.E.L.D./ Nick Fury told them, but I think they just didn't when they disagreed.) A lot of people (Comics International reviewers, anyway) complained Busiek's recent run was just about Cap holding their hand/ bailing them out any time they got in bother. Stark was finances, and original leader, and (I think) West Coast leader for a while. Thor is hard as fuck, and could probably have Superman, but he's never (as far as I'm aware) led the team. I think there's some bother coming up in the Marvel U. because Asgard's hovering over NYC and Thor is currently All-Father, having replaced Odin.

Short enough? Plenty factoids, though.
 
 
gergsnickle
22:51 / 03.11.02
As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Hank's abuse of Jan disturbed me in a way comics rarely do, so please don't take my desire to see Cap sat upon as an endorsement of domestic abuse.

That said, I would hate for Captain America to become this unbeatable Superman-like figure who always triumphs for what's right (as you point out some thought about Busiek's Cap). That's where my desire for Cap to take a fall comes from, plain and simple. And I'm sure we will all be plenty surprised what happen.

As a character I think he works fine, and I'm glad Millar IS treating him as a 1940s man (that comment about the taste of drinking water was great), even if that's precisely what irks me at times.
 
 
The Falcon
02:03 / 04.11.02
Of course I don't think you were endorsing Pym's behaviour. It's strange looking at two clearly fallible men and choosing sides. Comics din't useta be like this.
 
  

Page: (1)23

 
  
Add Your Reply