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We're trying to piece together the Sniper mystery at the Magik forum

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:13 / 23.10.02

Oh yeah... and the flame wars in policy didn't help a great deal. Haus is right again. Now THAT's scary.

12:16 / 23.10.02

1) The Magick is a strange place. And you're not slow. You're special. Always remember that.

2) Another, similar phrase for "the short bus" is "the rubber bus".

3) It's all done with mirrors anyway.

4) Watching Haus trying to seduce Posh Spice would be magick. In the most Selwyn Froggatt of senses.

5) If any forum on Barbelith correctly "identifies" the Washington Sniper I shall bare my arse in Woolworth's window.

6) Unless the sniper is actually someone from The Magick, of course, in which case all bets are off.

7) Or the Creation. Like one of those people who continually shoots round-robin stories dead in the water by posting halfway through a normal, rooted-in-reality story: "And then he ripped his shirt off and he was a self-knowing superhero pastiche and Cthulhu came down from space on the back of a big flying saucer and everyone could fly and then everybody had sex. The end."

12:23 / 23.10.02

I guess I never got the chance to see Jack's post. Reading Haus' initial post, it does look like a generalization. That is what I was reacting to, the sweeping generalization.

In Jack's defence though (so ze is not left being a scape-goat here), ze has posted some very thoughtful ideas, or at the very least, whimsical thoughts, even he if has (apparently) fucked up. We all do fuck up sometime.

Word of the day: Tolerance

I think this place works far better when people come here with open minds AND open hearts.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:30 / 23.10.02

But it wasn't a generalization. It was a very specific response to the post directly above it, which started this thread...

And can I also say, Victoria - may I call you Victoria - that those are beautiful, beautiful earrings. Are they diamonds? Diamonique, you say? No, I would never have guessed. Why yes, my dear, they do look even better than real diamonds.

Here. Let me get that for you. Let me lay you down on this beautiful gold four-poster bed. Let me put on one of your more contemplative numbers...perhaps "Out of your Mind", your collaboration with Dane Bowers and the True Steppers where, if I may be so bold, your angelic vocals give them a substance and pathos they have never truly recaptured in their oen work.

Oh, Victoria. I'm out of my mind. I'm out of my mind for your charms. Let me caress your body. Let me kiss you. Let me do you so nasty, girl.

Damn.

12:58 / 23.10.02

Okay, what Haus said was:

"Can't imagine why the rest of the board treats the Magick like the short bus"
The crucial thing is that he's not talking for the board, but about it - about what he has observed 'the rest of the board' doing, out in the open, for all to see* - rather than what the rest of the board thinks (which Haus would have to guess or assume unless the rest of the board had communicated it to him privately). So, if any criticism can be made, it is that he is either exaggerating (if not all of the people who make up the rest of the board treat the Magick in the way he says they do) or is simply wrong (if no one does), rather than that he is being presumptious.
*Mind you, he doesn't state specifically where and when the 'rest of the board' treats the Magick like the short bus. If it's "in places I don't get to see or hear about and at times I'm not around" then it is a supposition on his part, but I think we can safely assume that he means here, on the board.

13:04 / 23.10.02

...along with a corresponding degree of tolerance from some of the big Magick figures for those who haven't read every single Llewllyn publication in existance?

...not to mention a degree of tolerance for those who have "read every single Llewllyn publication in existance"...

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:06 / 23.10.02

Why, Mr. David. I wasn't expectin' you to be back so early from practice. If you just stay calm, I'll explain everything...I know it may look like I'm knocking boots with your lady wife while you're knocking boots against goalposts, but there's a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Hmmmm....but is there an explanation for that....bulge in your shorts, Mr. David? You like it, don't you? Seeing Miss Victoria with...a man like me? It excites you, doesn't it? You wanna know what happens next, hmmm? Like a kid on Christmas morning...

You come on over here, Baby D....you know, you're pretty for a boy...

13:27 / 23.10.02

I am of the opinion, as I was taught in buddhism, that all action is born of the mind. Therefore, behavior is a result of thought process. Meaning, if you treat the magick as if is a "short bus", you must actually think it is a "short bus". Any other claim, that thought and action are separate, denies responsibility for one, the other or both, thoughts and actions.

Oh, I would let you, however, I do not believe you have the rigour...heh

Now, why don't you position your lovely buttocks over the ottoman and I will show you what kind of nasty I like, my golden boy

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:39 / 23.10.02

Ah, but does "the rest of the board" include me? Or was this a cri de coeur about how "the rest of the board", i.e. those who do not post on the Magick (which group excludes me) treat, and thus think of (being Buddhists) the Magick? And how Jack was only exacerbating this by spamming the Head Shop to tell them how the Magicians were on the case, Columbo style? And how small are the circles and how wild the leaps to become before you simply accept that you misread the original, did not understand the context and are now just being obdurate in attempting to justify the original misreading?

And Mr. Barthez....well, this is a surprise. Now don't you dawdle like you did over that Steed Malbranque penalty, you naughty man, you. I ain't got no 91 seconds to wait. Get over here with those huge white gloves. You remind me of Mickey Mouse, Fabian. Put on these ears. Now work, baby.

Oooooh, that's gooood. They say Barthez has handling better than Seaman. You ready to prove them wrong, Fab baby?

Nooo, Victoria, I haven't forgotten you for a minute. As if I would. Here. Hold my martini.

13:54 / 23.10.02

"Oh, while we are taping this, could you please refrain making that grimace, Mr. Golden Boy"

Sucks back martini.

"...Oh, get me another martini too. Make the next one a gibson dear. Whoever had the blasphemous notion that cranberry juice worked well with vermouth had no sense of what a martini is....for shame."

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:58 / 23.10.02

You know, I don't think Posh Spice would talk like that. Hang on.

OI! YOU! Yeah, YOU! Get over 'ere and give me the loving I demand! No, not you, David! Reveal my womanhood as only a true lover can. DAVID! I said off the bed, or you'll be put out for the night!

Oh, bloody hell, Romeo's crying. Hang on a sec, everyone. I'll let the Neville brothers in while I'm downstairs.

14:27 / 23.10.02

My name is Ozymandias, king of kings, gaze upon my manhood and despair. Yes, my friends, 'tis I, your very own Stuart Hall, bused in at great expense by the Haus super-ego to provide a suitable commentary for this evening of barnstorming bed-hopping bawdiness, of peripatetic partner porking and END TO END ACTION. [draws deep breath and large draft of ale] Our gracious hostess, dressed as the fair Lady Godiva of Coventrys past, is playing the porter in this Scottish play of love disguised and lust awry as we speak and hark, I hear the dainty steps of Nevilles on the wing. A poor choice of team formation as it seems, as just as Phil is entering the box he is scythed to the floor by his brother. Penalty! Oh the humanity! And Haus wept for there were no more worlds to conquer save the hidden paradise of the Beckham love nest. So nearly beaten to the mark by the Red Devils' gruesome twosome, he really has to raise his game for the second half.

14:31 / 23.10.02

You know, I don't think Posh Spice would talk like that

Yeah, but I would.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:35 / 23.10.02

Yes, but this is not a you and me thing. This is a me and lady Beckham (and half the Man U first team, and Stuart Hall, as it turns out) thing. You are just for some reason cyberspuffing from the cybersidelines. And, looking at the multi-million dollar array of talent (and Stuart Hall. And Posh Spice) in front of me, I'm afraid I'll be tied up for a while. Although not literally. David doesn't like the kinky stuff.

14:38 / 23.10.02

Creative interpretation

14:40 / 23.10.02

Besides, why do you get to play yourself and no one else does?

14:42 / 23.10.02

Nevermind, keep playin' yourself Haus

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:47 / 23.10.02

It's a reference, dear. To a post earlier in the thread. By Sax.

Besides, I'm not playing with myself. I'm playing with Stuart. The Nevilles are posing together in a manner that would be deeply erotic if they didn't look like portraits of Tim Roth made entirely of ferret's guts, David is watching the Lion King and Posh is downstairs tending to Romeo.

What could be more sociable?

14:52 / 23.10.02

Giggsy. Showing off the red dragon tattooed on his arse. And quoting Dylan Thomas softly into your ear.

14:55 / 23.10.02

But wait just a a bated moment, what is this? The visitng manager is up from the bench. She's approaching the linesman as the Assyrians came down like the wolf on the fold. Marching as to war she is remonstrating with the wee timorous beastie over some foul or ilegal play. I can't quite make it out from here but he's certainly getting the full hairdryer treatment. There'll be crockery all over the dressing room soon. I think there's some dispute over the last play of the half or whether Haus's striker had broken the fourth wall before the ball was passed forwards to him. Was it real? Am I real? What is real, really? Is Giggsy signing for Real Madrid?

The match continues...

14:58 / 23.10.02

Denial...more than just a river in Egypt.

So this is your little fantasy and has nothing to do with anything or anyone other than those you have mentioned, who BTW, are not exactly posting themselves but live via your own posts here on Barbe?

Hmmmm....Not very sociable at all really, Haus. Have a nice time though, and call me when you are serious enough to venture out of your own head. It was delightful up to the point where this just became YOUR fantasy.

15:03 / 23.10.02

May Tricks - are you bitchiekittie in disguise?

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

15:09 / 23.10.02

Well, a) it isn't MY fantasy. It's Sax's.

And Orr/iadne came too. As it were.

And b) the point was that we had reached a level where you were, rather than going back and rereading things to see whether it was possible that you had misinterpreted or misread, or indeed paying close attention to people who were expressing differing viewpoints, instead just picking up the odd word and responding to it, with increasingly tortured tergiversifications, with no other interest than demonstrating that you were right all along.

Given which, it seemed like we may as well just talk about nobbing Stuart Hall, as the conversation would be about as engaged and mutually comprehended, and very probably funnier.

15:12 / 23.10.02

Might I suggest that we move this thread to the Sport forum?

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

15:18 / 23.10.02

Or the role-playing forum?

What?

We don't have one?

Shit, man!

That makes me wanna.....TEAR IT UP!

With my elven blade.

And my ancient magics.

And Fabian Barthez' buttocks for earmuffs.

15:24 / 23.10.02

Haus?

Haus, man, just calm down.

We can sort this out, I know we can. Just put the d20 down and step away slowly.

That's it. Nice and easy. Slip the ear muffs off. Yes I know they're kiss-ometer tested by the French Football squad but they have to be back at Old Trafford for Sunday.

Because he's in the team.

Because without them he can't stand upright without flailing around and will have to spend long periods leaning against the posts for support, holding up play.

Oh.

Bugger.

15:25 / 23.10.02

I read your post Haus, I understood it. Take some responsibility for yourself and stop whining about being misinterpreted or misunderstood. I understand that you do not hold the Magick in high-esteem as you have made that perfectly clear before in previous conversations. Your posts do not reside in vacuumns.

And if this is just simply a response to Sax, why not just PM him? Otherwise, the rest of the team gets a turn too.

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

15:36 / 23.10.02

Dearest Tricksy, the esteem in which I hold the Magick is not the issue. The esteem in which those members of the board who do not visit it hold the Magick, and how Jack Denfield's post might have reinforced that esteem, is the issue. 60 posts on and you have yet to grasp this fairly simple concept. My own opinion of the Magick is explained in detail in my Barbinterview for anyone who wishes to read it. That is not really the point. Because you have missed it. As I think I mentioned.

(Ariadne - you know, I think there could at the least be definite pen-pal potential).

And of course you are welcome to join in the fun - merely select any one of the Machester United squad or the Spice Girls and have at it. But this is an entertainment. Posts describing naughties between two barbeloids are officially creative endeavours, and go in the Barbe-Slash thread in the Creation, here

16:26 / 23.10.02

Sorry for joining the game late, but I'm catching up...

Short bus go slow.

In my limited experience, I certainly would - new thread! - but I am by no means a lone voice in suggesting that the Magick is marginalised and treated with distrust, uninterest and/or amused contempt by people who might frequent every other forum.

Before we even get into the question of whether there's a lick of truth in this assertion, it might be worth asking

whether the topic at hand has ever really been treated very differently

whether the participants in the Magick should, in fact, care

16:30 / 23.10.02

I do not think that the actions of one person can justifiably hold the entire Magick Forum in contempt. He is new here and is not accustomed to Barbelith ways. Especially the Headshop which, as I recall, has an entirely different premise for what is considered an appropriate post. If you were simply addressing the spam in different fora, you didn't initially clarify what you thought was spam and it rather came off as the entire MAgick was spam. Seeing as how I do not have the time nor inclination to read the ENTIRE BOARD, up and down before I post, maybe that would have been good to include in your retort to this appropriately placed thread.

I wonder though, if it not your own opinion, why volunteer yourself as the spokesperson? If it is your opinion, why are you trifling with the matter? Own your position Haus, you are a big boy (I suspect).

This has been rather entertaining however, you are a joy to argue with, (I am not being sarcastic either). What a rush babe!

I'll be Scary Spice

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

16:55 / 23.10.02

In my limited experience, I certainly would - new thread! - but I am by no means a lone voice in suggesting that the Magick is marginalised and treated with distrust, uninterest and/or amused contempt by people who might frequent every other forum.

Before we even get into the question of whether there's a lick of truth in this assertion, it might be worth asking

whether the topic at hand has ever really been treated very differently

whether the participants in the Magick should, in fact, care

Finally! Who really gives a fuck? And besides, I frequent many forums on this board, and have heard little contempt for the magick forum. Amusement and distrust, sure, but not really contempt.

20:10 / 23.10.02

The actions of one person? So what, I'm the rogue magik poster who got everyone pissed off? Look, I just saw this sniper thread at Magik, and thought "A group of magicians trying to piece together the sniper mysterty? How fascinating." I just thought it was really neat, is all. I wasn't trying to sell herbal viagra or anything like that. I know from lurking around the boards in the past that a lot of people don't go to the magik forum, and thought it might be interesting to show those people that sometimes magik attempts things on a grand scale in relation to real world problems, that we don't just argue the origins of Vishnu and stuff. Didn't mean to offend anyone,

20:30 / 23.10.02

'Offend' is far too strong a word, but this really was a completely superfluous thread - the Magick sniper one has been visible from the main page for a while now and I doubt very much that anyone who was likely to be interested in its contents would have been able to miss it - and I can't really think why it would be of more interest to Headshoppers than, say, Switchboarders. There's little point in plugging topics in this manner anyway, but if you feel it has to be done then it should take place in Conversation. So, the moderation actions were entirely justified.

A two page bitch-fest, however, is not. Let it go.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:31 / 23.10.02

I'm off the bitchfest. I am lodged in the loving arms of the entire Manchester United first team. Such tiny, thin arms, for such big men.

But to assume that this was an attack on the entire Magick thread, rather than on a single instance of well-intentioned but very tiresome behaviour, would require a near-psychotic misreading of events. Which everyone is, of course, entirely entitled to.

For reference, I moved to have the thread deleted after the first post, another Head Shop mod suggested instead that it be moved to the Conversation. I agreed, little expecting that Barbelith Top Trumps would show such a startlingly low self-awareness score.

mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

23:19 / 23.10.02

Sadly, there is a stigma attached to the Magick forum. I will not name anyone I've spoken with on this subject, so don't ask me to. The majority of conversations I've had about it have been with regular posters off-site.

Furthermore (yikes! I used a *furthermore*) Haus - and anyone else, for that matter - is perfectly capable of acting as a spokesperson for a belief that he doesn't share. That's how dialogues get started, and ideas get thrown around. He's also demonstrated that he takes the forum seriously by making a several excellent posts. Please continue to do so.

I'm also of the opinion that the forum could do with an influx of new ideas, so I'll put my thinking cap on straight away. And yes, there are a lot of board regulars who don't go to the forum who are capable of some superb contributions. Anyone else who wants to take the challenge of posting there at least once per day is most welcome.

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