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Pop Corner

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
13:22 / 05.10.02
"Haterz no like, but they got to fuck widdit cos the flow's so tight!" - Jay-Z

There's some fantastic pop music about at the moment. Let me tell ya bout:

'Down Boy' by Holly Valance - nice to have Nellee Hooper producing again (unless he's never been away and I've just missed stuff); even nicer that he has embraced POP! in all its glory. This is a slinky record: it slinks. It is pervtastic, it is Ms Vallance saying "fuck waiting, I'm going to record my 'Justify My Love' right now". It says more to me about sex and cruelty than a thousand record by the likes of Nine Inch Nails could ever hope to achieve. It makes me want to dance in my pants. Like Holly Valance.

Craig David's forthcoming single, 'What's Your Flava?' (I'm assuming it's not written 'What's Yr Flava?', 'What's Yer Flava?' or some other variant, although if it is - respect due), is full-on 'Planet Rock' style electro funk - now that's a comeback, and one that tempts me to move from mildly liking Craig to wanting to hoist him onto my shoulders and bear him through the streets of London, cheering. Did you see him on telly performing this at the MoBos? He's gone electroclash, he's obviously been listening to a lot of Cameo and hanging around in Shoreditch or something. Ace.

Pink's 'Just Like A Pill' sounds like the theme tune for a mid-80s road movie about a sexually-confused teenage girl who just broke out of the asylum her cruel parents had her committed to and is trekking across America trying to find herself. If they cast Pink and her fly-ass hair in that movie I would go see it. Still can't believe she actually managed to pull of the trick of becoming AngstyGothyRockPink and still having number 1 singles and not being anywhere near as annoying as I expected - I eat my words... (That 'Complicated' woman is clearly also doing the 80s teen angst movie theme thang - it's now officially a genre.)

A brief mention of Shakira, the craziest woman in pop. Her new single is called 'Objection Tango' and appears to be mostly influence by Dick Dale - surf guitar everywhere. Her forthcoming tour is apparently called 'Tour of The Mongoose', and there is genuine madness in her eyes. No wonder Gabriel Garcia Marquez likes her.

Some sceptical sceptics have expressed scepticism at the sincerity of Britney Spears' latest single, a cover of Joan Jett's 'I Love Rock'n'Roll'. I see no reason to do so. It's big dumb chant-a-long ROCK anthemics, and suddenly you see the Britney/Steven Tyler connection - the spandex pants, the hair, of course! If this is her next direction, she ought to follow it up with a cover of 'Walk This Way' featuring Ja Rule, Eve and possibly Nelly. The video meanwhile, in which Britney would appear at one point to be auditioning for a role in the Village People, proves yet again if proof be need be that it is David LaChapelle's world, and we just live in it.

On a related note, in what we might call 'Haterz Corner', Ryan Adams written a song in response to 'Boys'. Adams says: "I wanted to write a song in defence of men, because we're not all players. There are romantics who don't think about panty lines and don't talk shit about women. And just because Britney can't find one doesn't mean that I'm supposed to be chastised for it. The song doesn't attack Britney or anything, it attacks this preconceived notion that men cannot be romantic intellectuals." "Romantic Intellectual" Ryan Adams is officially the dumbest man making music in the world today, and I cannot help but wonder if he has even heard the Britney song in question. He is not as good as Bryan Adams, who at least did 'Summer of 69'. If The Neptunes see him at a celeb shindig, they should hit him with sticks.

Pop music. You know you love it really.
 
 
suds
17:48 / 05.10.02
flyboy, i love you.
my favourite pop right now has to be the new j timberlake single "like i love you" because he wears a trilby and dances with pharrell in the video. the song is super sexy and hott. i like it when he says "drums" and the beat kicks in again.
i also dig liberty x because they dance in bikinis and with poles and one of the boys is actually quite cute! i missed the whole popstars thing because i was in the states, but i cannot believe these folks didn't win. hear say looked too NICE.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:54 / 06.10.02
Holly Valance just seems to be getting better by the minute...

ooh,ooh! will come back to this, and you rool, Fly, for reminding us about the glory of Proper Music... but just for now am getting dangerously obsessed with Ms.Dynamite... her performance on the Mobos...rahhhh.

And have a big ol'bunchashiny pop
 
 
rizla mission
14:28 / 06.10.02
A brief mention of Shakira, the craziest woman in pop. Her new single is called 'Objection Tango' and appears to be mostly influence by Dick Dale - surf guitar everywhere.

that sounds awesome!

Some sceptical sceptics have expressed scepticism at the sincerity of Britney Spears' latest single, a cover of Joan Jett's 'I Love Rock'n'Roll'.

You serious?? That sounds double awesome!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:51 / 06.10.02
Liberty X really need to come up with another song as good as 'Just A Little', which is mos def one of the singles of the year, what with the very Neptunesy production, vaguely Jackson 5 feel, good clean RAUNCH, and, oh yes, the canes!

Mr Timberlake also gets props from me. I love the fact that the single is the none-more-pop guy from NSync featuring the none-more-grimy rappers Clipse. This is the natural result of Pharell and Chad having taken over the world.

From Timberlake to Timbaland - the new Missy Elliott single, 'Work It', is utterly incredible. I have so much to say about this that it probably needs a new thread... for now, go read this which pretty much sums it all up, then go hear this track. It's the bomb, as people never seem to say anymore.

"I put my thing down flip it and reverse it!"
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:52 / 06.10.02
Currently crossing everything and hoping that the Holly Valance album, when it arrives, doesn't just consist of Kiss Kiss, Down Boy and ten syrupy ballads.
 
 
The Strobe
21:11 / 06.10.02
Fly is so right on the new Craig David single. It's just fucking great. Personally, I think the new Liberty X (the Mantronix cover) is probably better than Just A Little, which I never really dug. Oh, and I cannot BEAR that new Pink song. It's entirely dreadful. Just that moment when the doubled vocal so blatantly comes in... it's bad. It hurts.
 
 
Seth
23:04 / 06.10.02
Craig David = Southampton Boy Done Good.
 
 
Domestiques
03:51 / 07.10.02
are you all fucking mad, or are you students being ironic. Its pop music for gods sake, when you favourite artist gets dropped by their record company it will be because of a pop artist. Holly Valance, craig David, what in the name of all that is holy are you on. I was told that their is some serious music discussion on Barbelith, but really, think about what you have done, now go and stand in a corner.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
04:28 / 07.10.02
Oh, please.

It's not as if we're fucking ILM or something. Pop music isn't the enemy, and it's not mutually exclusive from Serious Music.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
06:08 / 07.10.02
You serious?? That sounds double awesome!
Only if she wears the requisite mullet. That would be fucking ace.
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
06:25 / 07.10.02
as far as the title ("pop corner") said it all, Domestiques, you don't have to be surprised about its content...

now, i gotta tell you that i'm feeling less alone with your post : aside strictly social analyses of the mentionned "artists", i don't have any interest into holly valance or craig david's new tracks.
i find it boring, really, and i gotta admit that i feel just sad when "we" (the barbelith people, who are some of the more interesting and curious people i've ever met) use some time for speaking of this kind of music, while there plenty of stuff which really needs our appetite and interest.
now, the lith is a community, with its individuals, and this is probably what makes it so fresh and strong.
but yes, indeed, i spent to much time reading topics and debates closer to my tastes while here, so it hurts when reading this !!!! ;[
 
 
Bear
06:38 / 07.10.02
Well I'm I like this thread.

Just want to add that Craid David deserves extra credit because his new video is a tribute to Willy Wonka!
 
 
The Strobe
07:12 / 07.10.02
june: we spend an awful lot of time talking about "proper" music.

But the fact is, you've got to take things in perspective. Barbelith is (apparently), a counter-cultural board. I think we can all accept that? I mean, it's certainly alternative in whatever capacity you choose to think of. How can you be alternative if you don't know what you're being alternative to? You've got to appreciate culture to counter it.

And this is one of the best examples of the two interfering. It is a bit embarassing, but it's also a broadening of scope - there's a lot of pop that STINKS, and there's a lot of "alternative" music that ALSO STINKS. We're not discriminating by genre, just by quality. I mean, on a purely "shaking booty" front, I would find it pretty hard not to shake or get involved with say, that new Missy track, or Nelly's more recent output - but I also find it criminal that no-one shakes ANYTHING whenever me or anyone else I know plays Lady Don't Tek No. Do you see? Music of all genres elicits a relatively similar response. We're just not defining that response by genre.

Crap it's early
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
11:58 / 07.10.02
paleface : yes, we spend an awful lot of time talking about "proper" music

How can you be alternative if you don't know what you're being alternative to? You've got to appreciate culture to counter it.
heck (1), i never said i'm "being alternative".
is the fact of [waiting to discover and appreciate underated and/or not advertised music] is "being alternative" ? i don't think so.
i never said that pop is crap or whatever. cause really i don't think this, simply. you cannot make a 2 tones debate around this (as we done it a thousand times before, i agree) ; what i was trying to say is that i spend many many times reading posts on the lith, enough to know that people here got billions of musical background, of nowadays tastes, and that it's a good place to keep in touch with what's happens in the (not-specificaly-"underground/alternative") underexposed musical word...
as far as i'm concerned, the "barbelith underground" is a community, right ? and we push debates and informations a little bit higher by exchanging ideas between all of us, right ? so here i am, not away from this very point.

I would find it pretty hard not to shake or get involved with say, that new Missy track, or Nelly's more recent output
heck (2), by saying that i don't find interest in the last holly valance stuff, i didn't criticize the whole "pop" genre ! as you said, We're not discriminating by genre, just by quality ? ok now let me tell you that i'm a lot into missy ("work it" rules alongside the majority of her work, for me), too, and that my last purchases aren't white-super-underground-limited-alternative-dope-rare shit : at the moment i can't listen to anything but miss dynamite...
do i still have the right to don't find craig david (even with a tribute to Willy Wonka-lol) or holly valance this interesting ?

but I also find it criminal that no-one shakes ANYTHING whenever me or anyone else I know plays Lady Don't Tek No
heck (3), the whole world cannot be perfect, right ?

Do you see?
not really.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:37 / 07.10.02
Domestiques> is this the bit where the discussion becomes a mess of half thought-out statements about artistic worth and integrity? Oooo, please say it is.

Next up: the Tool debate!
 
 
Shortfatdyke
14:13 / 07.10.02
Been thinking about this thread, wanting to say something but hesitating, but here goes:

Holly Valance worries me. As a shame faced Neighbours fan, I've been vaguely following her singing career. I haven't heard 'Down Boy' but I saw the video to 'Kiss Kiss' and I've seen a hell of a lot of shots of her. It really does strike me that Kiss Kiss/Valance's voice seemed to be unutterably mediocre. No big deal in itself - what I deem to be good is not going to be what someone else likes - but I must've seen fifteen or twenty different posters/photos of Holly Valance and she looks incredibly unhappy/uncomfortable in all of those pictures except one. I keep visualising a woman who wants a career as a singer being told she's not that good but if she gets her kit off, who cares about her voice?

So, to read some enthusiasm from someone who likes her records, as opposed to the only other praise I've seen for her - frankly, as wank material - is quite a surprise.
 
 
Bear
14:20 / 07.10.02
Funny I just read an article where she's stated that she wants to stop making music in 7 years time, she wants to write more songs for her second album but when she gets to 27 she wants to stop, so maybe she's got different plans altogether.
 
 
rizla mission
14:54 / 07.10.02
when you favourite artist gets dropped by their record company it will be because of a pop artist

When my 'favourite artist' gets dropped by their record company, it's generally because they didn't sell enough records and didn't really belong on a big label in the first place.. but whatever..
 
 
grant
15:01 / 07.10.02
Shakira: Dick Dale guitar, with an accordion.

I'm totally into her.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:49 / 07.10.02
Hang on...does this mean that pop is the evil Galactic Empire, and us clever people who have all the songs written by clever people who went to good universities and have good record collections to draw upon to inspire their good music are good and right? Thank heavens for that.

I really like Coldplay, me. And Toploader. And I just wish Dodgy would get it together and release a new album.
 
 
Jackie Susann
00:08 / 08.10.02
You should all go to Melbourne Indymedia

And comment because the thread is dying...
 
 
Bear
06:41 / 08.10.02
So did anyone else see this on the news last night? (I would have just posted a link but its unlinkable) -

Mozart, Wagner and Chopin have been revealed as the unlikely influences behind the hits of pop guru Pete Waterman.

The Popstars: The Rivals judge has admitted swiping many of his biggest successes - including Kylie Minogue's chart-topper I Should Be So Lucky - from classical tunes.

And he claimed he was not alone in plundering the classical vaults to find inspiration for his pop hits, listing the Beatles, Barry Manilow and the Farm as other culprits.

Waterman said he had lifted elements of Wagner's compositions around 20 times over the years.

But he added: "If I'm good at what I do, you shouldn't be able to hear where I've taken it from."

He said the track which launched Kylie's career was taken from Pachelbel's Canon, while Dead Or Alive's You Spin Me Round borrows from The Ride Of The Valkyries.

Last Thing On My Mind by Steps took its unlikely musical inspiration from Mozart, he said.

"I think classical music has had an amazing influence on pop, although at the moment American R&B and rap artists have forced all the tunes out," said Waterman.

"But pop will come back to classical music.

"There's Pachelbel's Canon which is almost the Godfather of pop music because we've all used that in our own ways for the past 30 years.

"The Farm used it for All Together Now and we used it for I Should Be So Lucky by Kylie.

"Then you've got Whiter Shade of Pale by Procol Harum which is Bach's Air On The G String, while Could It Be Magic by Barry Manilow is of course Chopin's Prelude in C Minor.

"For people like myself, The Beatles and Burt Bacharach, the tune was always the most important thing.

"If you look at the greatest pop writers, you'll always be able to spot the classical influence."

So you can all rest easy now, its ok to like pop
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:29 / 08.10.02
I love pop music in principle- I just have this unshakeable (and no doubt incredibly sad) conviction that it used to be better in the olden days.

(mmm... Strawberry Switchblade...)

Commerciality in itself be not bad... c'mon, even the majority of "serious" bands are trying to shift units.

Current pop... hmmm... to be honest, I don't really know much. I've heard a few tracks being played in pubs that I quite liked, but don't really know what they were.
 
 
No star here laces
10:24 / 08.10.02
The 'complicated' woman is Avril Lavigne. Lovely, lovely Avril.

I am SO in favour of shiny record-company alterna-teens. They have better dress sense and better skin than the real thing.

However, shall we talk of Busted now, and the vileness thereof?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:59 / 08.10.02
sfd: In every photo of Holly Valance I've seen, she looks happy and self-satisfied to the point of smugness - as indeed would I in her position, with the pop world currently at my feet. And I've heard people go on about the actual music all the time... it's a commonly leveled charge that pop fans don't like the actual music, just the image, but I have yet to see any evidence that this is more true in the case of this type of music than any other.

As for the thorny subject of whether Holly is being made to take her clothes off to sell records... It's important to remember two things here. Number one, that sex and pop music have been intimately connected ever since Elvis swivelled his hips and cocked a sneer. Number two, that music reflects the sexism that exists in society, but that different genres of music do this in different ways. For example, indie rock's solution is to exclude women from the process of making music wherever possible; hip-hop tends to verbalise misogyny as it does all things; in pop music, the sexualisation that is common to male artists is greatly heightened where female arists are concerned...

But I'll come back to this.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:19 / 08.10.02
As long as we're all in favour of hurling bricks at Busted if we ever see them, I'm all in favour of this thread.

(Not that you really need my approval. I just love that the Liberty X song has that bit that goes "sexxxxxy, everything about you's so ... seeexxxxy". Which I always find hilarious.)
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:31 / 08.10.02
Have any of you heard the new Jay-Z/Beyonce Knowles single? It hasn't been officially released, but you can find it on the P2P services. It's called "'03 Bonnie & Clyde", but it's easier to find it under the title "Me and My Girlfriend".

The song is growing on me, but I've got some mixed feeling - I really don't care for the soft porn acoustic latin guitar, but Jay-Z's verses are very strong, particularly the one about Sex & The City. Beyonce sings on the chorus, and then sings a verse starting off with an interpolation of "If I Was Your Girlfriend" by Prince. It's solid, it's going to be a MASSIVE hit, but Hov' can do a lot better than this, and I hope this is an anomoly on The Blueprint 2...
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
08:23 / 09.10.02
Rizla Ramone
When my 'favourite artist' gets dropped by their record company, it's generally because they didn't sell enough records...
i agree with that ; now, with this whole "music-as-a-product,-more-than-a-concretization-of-art" system we're all into, isn't the best way, is to stay outside the major classics ways ? independant is a hard road cause you've got to take care of things major do better (distribution, advertising), but at least... well, you're what you want to be, and you stop only if you decided to (or your bank, uh).

The Haus
Hang on...does this mean that pop is the evil Galactic Empire, and us clever people who have all the songs written by clever people who went to good universities and have good record collections to draw upon to inspire their good music are good and right? Thank heavens for that.
my idea is that there's truly an evil galactic empire, but maybe it isn't pop. more a "certain" pop, and even more of this, the way that labels runners do what they do of artists, cause the results of an artist releasing its shit with this or that label can really change the whole thing, the way it reach its audience and the idea of how the artist is viewed by people. now, i'm probably sick-and-pessimist-and-parano enough to think that making money as a first reason to release a record is evil, evil, evil...
and as i feel concerned by your post, i want to way that i'm not clever at all, i stopped school at 17, and i don't think that the music i listen to is good and right and what others listen to is bad. i respect the whole genres of music and its audience ; BUT i'm not into Holly, at all (place your nasty joke here _________ ).

I really like Coldplay, me.
and i really like Coldplay too.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
10:44 / 09.10.02
Agree with Fly re: Holly Valance looking unhappy. I think wht's going on in some shots is she's trying for pouty and somehow mixing it up with mardy.

As for the thorny subject of whether Holly is being made to take her clothes off to sell records...

She addressed this herself in a recent interview, saying that she believes that to get her image as widely seen as possible, stripping down for photo shoots and videos is simply a (and, crucially, her) good business decision. Whether or not she's doing herself a disservice by placing so much emphasis on image is open for debate, but it certainly didn't appear that it was something anyone else had told her she had to do.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:59 / 09.10.02
Ok, Might I suggest that we don't believe what pop stars say in interviews, we don't try to work out how they are feeling from their facial expressions in photoshoots, and we don't assume that we know their emotional state?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:51 / 09.10.02
But where would be the fun in that, Haus? Next thing you'll be telling me that it's only about the music (maaaaaan), and surely one of the most delightful things about pop is that it is not limited to the music but seeps in and out of other forms...

Incidentally, Pete Waterman is clearly an insane old white supremacist. American r&b and rap have *saved* pop, not buried it. Git.

And Crunchy, where do you think I got the idea for this thread from, eh?
 
 
suds
12:34 / 10.10.02
dudes, that ketchuop song is going to be number one this sunday. i don't like it. does that make me very boring? still, i'd rather listen to it than coldplay any time. ha ha ha.
i think that holly valance is very boring.
i think christina agrueilla looks HOTT in the new video for "dirrty" and the song is super too.
i agree with flyboy that pete waterman isn't making pop any better.
i am sick of people who are all, i don't like pop music. i like real music...all music is real! 4realz.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:02 / 10.10.02
...and all the same I'm growing a little weary of overzealous ILM-posting folks who've sworn off the EVILS of 'indie' and now must talk only about POP and the people who don't get it. It's the same condescending attitude and manages to double the pretention factor. Ugh. I'm not levelling this at anyone here...but surely some of you must know what I'm on about.

I think there's some pretty good songs on that new Coldplay album, by the way. They've improved a lot. That song "Clocks" is really good. In my country, Coldplay is just as 'pop' as Christina and Justin. It's true.
 
 
rizla mission
14:54 / 10.10.02
...but surely some of you must know what I'm on about.

Yeah.

Actually, in my wrong-headed world, 'perfect pop' is stuff like the Buzzcocks, the Ramones etc., and current chart-topping stuff, fine as it may be, has more in common with what I'd mentally categorise as dance, funk, hip-hop etc.

Funny that..
 
  

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