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Underground > Comic Books >

The Filth #4

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23:42 / 11.09.02

first of all, hi there. i'm a new guy, been a lurker for nearly six months now, and i'm finally jumping into the game.

so, woah. this one kinda left me reeling. i didn't get that 'holy fuck, that was great' feeling after the last issue, and i'm still trying to work it all out. anyone else grabbed this yet?

01:47 / 12.09.02

Hey, good to hear from you, mikebee. I actually have been so broke that I'm still waiting to buy issue three. But I will definitley get back to discuss. I am intrigued by i-Life.

*lifts couch cushion in search of change*

12:09 / 13.09.02

Liked it but it left me feeling lessened, like someone had been draining my vital body fluids. I particularly liked the idea of Otto drowning in his own fear-induced urine. But, why doesn't he just reach down, disconnect his urine tube and insert his oxygen tube? Did Ned take it? Why do I care?

This book is fresher and more vital than dozens of other comics. I'm in for the haul, but I must admit to being pleasantly perplexed, not unlike the feeling you get after watching a David Lynch or Kenneth Anger movie.

14:25 / 13.09.02

I'm mildly disappointed by issue #4.

What's happened to the whole sub-plot with Secret Original and the paper-verse?

Why did this issue seem kind of like a half-hearted early Philip K Dick story written by a piss & germ crazed maniac?

Some nice twisted imagery though.

And the first page kind of seems like a direct vision of GM trying to deny the part of himself that's turning into a dirty old man.. worrying, to say the least, but would we expect anything less?

14:27 / 13.09.02

Read it quickly, and it seemed pretty good, though it feels a bit like each issue is ending with the idea of Slade going back to being Feely, if you see what I mean.

And the bit where Slade attacks Otto whatsit was rather lifeless in the big panel, I thought – the one where he’s hitting him with the bone or whatever it was (like I say, quick skim of it) was unfortunately lacking in a sense of movement, which was a shame, as the art on this title’s really well done on the whole – detailed, distinctive, and generally very good at carrying the story along (I really do get a sense of Feely’s love for his cat from the facial expressions as well as the dialogue).

Anyone know why Grant was surprised Karen Berger published it ? Nothing in there struck me as really offensive – maybe it was the bit about the two-year-old kid ? I know Karen has a child, maybe Grant thought she’d think it was beyond the pale ? Or was it all the porn in this issue, maybe ? Anyone ?

DBC

15:01 / 13.09.02

Someone on another board put forth the idea that The Filth is a fictionalized account of Grant's writing of The Invisibles.

At first I was skeptical, but this issue strikes me as having parallels with Grant's sickness...the focus on germs and bacteria, the body as environment (the landscape looks like hairy skin at times, what's it...the World in the Crack?...) malevolent macro-mites, Slade barely surviving and coming through all deranged at the end.

Plus the fact that the sickness nearly derailed the Invisibles, just as this issue nearly derails the plot of The Filth....

Hmm.

14:09 / 14.09.02

after all the symapthising of the last issue we get a good honest twart of a character. so many overwritten gm/am baddies in von vermun. cleansing of life's accidental evils like accreted dirt is a standard preoccupation of mysticism, blavatsky/crowley's opaque veils, rusted iron gates of cabala. direct literal hard-sf comicbookery - the malign microbes crawling all over us are the baddies [but lke the us gov finds so hard to work out you have to make friends with your enemies, killing them only makes them come back.]

16:15 / 14.09.02

Thing is, Grant so regularly throws in stories that seem strangely placed, breaking up the main action. I'm totally used to it by now. Remember all those standalone issues introduced in the Invisibles right in the thick of the action?

I though this issue was solid fun, unremarkable but enjoyable, with some hilarious dialogue. I loved the idea of pornographic timewarps used as a murder weapon, and I don't know whether i'm alone in picking up parallels between Filth #4 and New X-Men #132 (the naked girl seen running across the rubble, radiation suits in an inhospitable environment, giant dust mites, etc). As for the virtually unpublishable story, that's Issue 5, as far as I know.

16:41 / 14.09.02

Libertine Wrangler:

"Someone on another board put forth the idea that The Filth is a fictionalized account of Grant's writing of The Invisibles."

The Invisibles was a fictionalized account of the writing of The Invisibles.

The Filth is a further exploration of the black and negridic magic employed by the Outer Church/Tom-a-Bedlam in the 30's nd 40's/De Sade's Filthonauts mucking about with the anti-mirror in the semi.

17:57 / 14.09.02

Someone told me recently that The Filth had a great deal of "Qlippothic" symbolism emebedded throughout. Can anyone comment on this? My knowledge of this sort of thing is rather limited, and said person didn't elaborate. (Random Goth-esque comic-shop dweller).

12:23 / 15.09.02

What about von Vermun being dressed in a Matrix-style coat?

13:14 / 15.09.02

the qlippoth are the nasty entities that live behind certain sefirah of the hermetic cabala. they're scary as fuck, but still a part of the overall process of illumination - they tear the shit bits off you rather painfully and unceremoniously, but with courage they can be withstood.

The Natural Way

16:15 / 15.09.02

I was wearing Pranny's cyber-skin yesterday, so that last "Pranny" post? That was me. Anyway.....

Yr just being silly now, aren't you Wrangler? AREN'T YOU?!??!?

Yep, forgot to add "qliphothic" to my list of Filth-y ingredients.

Qliphothic elemements in the Invisibles: the inverted tree of life(the crawling, devouring time-maggot tree; the superdense tesseracts of The Outer Church); inverted sephira (the Archons: barren, all consuming Onorthocrasi/Kali - the negative Binah); Quimper/Sir Miles (the shadow of Adam Kadmon [or, in the Invisibles, Horus], the divine child/man/mind of which the Qabbalah is a map), both of whom experience themselves as abortions; and, of course, Freddy/John (the "Magician" who befriends the qliphothic entities with whom he has been infected).

17:09 / 15.09.02

I've always been under the impression that the whole of The Filth is basically an extrapolation of the Desade issue of Invisibles V3. But I've only recently begun to grok the magickal elements of the book on the properly deep level. The whole POINT of The Filth is to make the reader feel sick, disgusting, and horrible. It IS nothing more nor less than 22 pages of sick wallowing in pure FILTH and degredation. Everything in the book, from Greg's porn habits to the nasty little scrotes in issue 3 ('Dirty old podiophile!', indeed...) to the rubbish tip full of porn and junkies, is calculated to make the reader feel deeply uncomfortable. Grant is fucking with us again: he's created a book that taps in very effectively to all our suppressed feelings of fear, disgust, and self-loathing, presumably as some kind of innoculatory process.

And I loved Von Vermun! He's such a total Devlin Waugh villain. 'I lost my sense of smell in a bizarre wine-tasting accident...' Brilliant! And all the Century 21 stuff Grant said he'd be incorporating seems to have made it's first appearance here, with the strange, Thunderbirds-ish radiation suits...

Yeah, I wasn't too chuffed with the Filth to begin with, but I'm really starting to get into it. Although, given the way it's going, the next issue will make this all meaningless and will make me hate the thing to Hades...

Nietzsch E. Coyote

20:02 / 15.09.02

Maybe the whole thing can be mapped on a tree of life
1-10 are sepheroth and 11-13 are the "negative veils"
1 starts with a twin earth, the Malakuth/[whatever the qliphotic equivilent is.]
and so on...

12:43 / 16.09.02

I was wearing Pranny's cyber-skin yesterday, so that last "Pranny" post? That was me. Anyway.....

Funny...after I read that post I thought, "Oh, that must be Runce." Your voice shines through.

Yr just being silly now, aren't you Wrangler? AREN'T YOU?!??!?

Am I? Is it so outrageous to think Grant would dress a villain in the garb of his arch-nemesis' creations?

I'm not saying anyone's wrong...I'm just saying that the whole foundation of Grant's work, chaos magick and such...doesn't it utterly defy either/or definitions? Can't it embrace and be both? Does it not engender a multiplicity of explanations and interpretations?

Or do we all just want to be the first one to "get it right"?

The Natural Way

14:10 / 16.09.02

Filth sure does contain elements of the Invisibles, but Grant's stated again and again that its core themes are a continuation and further exploration (as opposed to a carbon copy) of his adventures in that particular ghetto of the supercontext. I've already pointed out the threads he appears keen to pick up on, and not because I wanna be cool or any of that crap, but because I find that stuff interesting and because getting all worked up about THE CONNECTIONS is, for me, a real dead end, especially if it means getting hardons for trench coats (as that kind of talk, so often on Barbelith, does: "Hey, Look! That looks just like that!" Yes... But what does it mean?). God, if we wanna talk about parallel themes we can do better than that!

I usually "get" Morrison - plenty of people on Barbelith "get" Morrison - he's not that difficult.

Like the idea that "The Crack" is, amoungst other things, the body itself: the final meeting ground of self and other...

"Arrgh! It's the alien! Run away!" "

"But it's using my legs!!! And it's thinking my thoughts!!!"

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

15:12 / 16.09.02

I've been enjoying this a lot more recently. At first, the series seemed slightly underwhelming, but as of issue 3 - I went back and read them all through again - and suddenly they seemed far more fresh and exciting. Issue 4 seems like Morrisson pulling the rug from under our feet again (as in, one long narrative of something completely different from before, etc) - but now I'm finding it all enjoyable, and a very involving read.

Shit, I'm sure I had a bunch of interesting points about the nature of the whole thing, but they seem to have left me for now. Which is really bugging me actually, because I'm sure it was a big thing which made me think "oooooooooooh, I see". But still.

One thing that gets me slightly is the art - I thought it would work better as a whole if the art changes were more pronounced. (As in, the "comic strip sections" and "real life".) Some of Weston's panels at the end of issue 3 were superb, and I thought him to be very much suited to those sections of the story. This is just me though - and is just a thought i've often had when reading it. Just a minor gripe, really (specially seeing as most comics these days are notoriously bad at being consisten with the art - which this definitely is).

But still, I find myself looking foward to this every month, and it looks to be an interesting ride.

And I think that in the end this will work excellently as one, whole, thing.

15:42 / 16.09.02

The storytelling seems to me to be very televisual: lots of little self-contained stories that are linked by an ongoing subplot (with the exception of the two-issue 'pilot' and in contradistinction to the 'novelistic' approach in the Invisibles). Episode 4, in particular, really does have a creepy 60s/70s British TV feel. The end reminds me of that Prisoner episode, 'Many Happy Returns', where 6 escapes from the village and goes on a lone, Robinson Crusoe like journey, until he finally finds himself back in the village.
That whole 'we knew you were the baddie all along' thing is quite like some Prisoner episodes as well.

Not that 'Prisoner similarities turn up in Morrison comic!' is any kind of a shock, of course...

22:55 / 16.09.02

Yeah, I'm really getting the 'Gerry Anderson for paranoid schizophrenics/wankers (literally)' vibe out of this one. It has the deliberately 'crap' feel. It is written by a man whose revolutionary ideas will be sidelined for years, because he writes 'funnybooks'.

Masturbation guilt? God, yes. It's cumming out of the covers of 'Shit Happens'.

I can identify with that agglomeration. Oh, and I'll be disappointed if Greg's not a 'podiophile'.

12:05 / 17.09.02

Feels-like/is a non-'continuity' issue. Character/World-building. We've never seen Ned operate properly - and it's clear he doesn't do it on the the terms of The Hand, but has his own compass he's following. On the crap 70's sci-fi tip, he's so Blakeian! (rog, not william)

Really enjoyed it, but read it quick while drunk and listening to the shipping forecast. On the pace of the thing... it's going to fly by quickly isn;t it. Nearly every episode I've breezed through as a ripping yarn, then gone back, read it again and let it unfold more...

20:05 / 17.09.02

I loved #4. Loved it, I tell you!!

I had sat down and read the first 3 issues through before getting into the new one, and those first few pages felt like the start of Volume 2 of The Invisibles -- “It’s Ned! And Replacement Greg! And there’s Dimitri! Welcome back, Dimitri! Ho-ho, Ned is shouting at Replacement Greg -- isn’t that just like Ned? And Dimitri is going on about ‘big dirty jobs’ -- ha! Look, there’s Tony! And who’s this new guy?”

A master detective who solves crimes with his nose -- “I smell murder” --

-- piss brothers --

-- “NINTH GEAR ENGAGE” --

This shit is brilliant!

20:10 / 17.09.02

I’m worried about Tony, though.
And worried about Ned.

The only think that seems to be keeping Ned going is his concern for his cat. (“Some of us have reasons to keep on living.” “I promised – I promised Tony I’d be back with his tea.”)

But – “Daddy loves his little Tony, doesn’t he?” – that loathsome, leering grin on Replacement Greg’s face as he shuts the door – “Something about what he said…”

Yuck. I suppose bestiality was due for an appearance round about now.

I really don’t like this. Didn’t someone say that Morrison had described The Filth as having more “heart” than his comics usually have? And now Tony is being used for some kind of cheap, Garth Ennis-level cat-fucking joke??

Look, when I reread issue one, and I realised what Greg Feely’s last thoughts were before he got snotted out of existence, I fucking wept, alright? (Ah, shit, jesus, my eyes are starting to fucking dribble now, just thinking about it…)

Those last few pages of #3…

And now??
Ha-fucking-ha. I hate you, Grant Morrison.

How’s Ned going to react when he gets home?

I wish The Filth came out every week.

Am I taking this too seriously?

Graeme McMillan

01:40 / 18.09.02

"Oh, and I'll be disappointed if Greg's not a 'podiophile'."

If he's not - and I'm beginning to doubt that he is, now, despite being the first person here to suggest it - then he's going to be set up as being one by The Hand for some reason. Think what Greg/Ned is told as he leaves his house in the first issue.

This is the second issue where the idea that we are being controlled by micro-organisms appears (Sharon Jones' last appearance in issue two)... is this important?

The Natural Way

07:39 / 18.09.02

Well, yeah: Grant's attempting to undermine our belief in a single, homogenised self. Y'know: the memeplex at the end of the Invisibles/Plex in Marvel Boy. What we generally understand as "me" is actually a heaving mass of viruses/Archon bug gods all violently competing for bodymind supremacy. Or something.

Back to the "what the fuck am I...Bzzzzz....many angled...many eyed...arrrgh!" of the Outer Church...the CRACK....the Choronzonic Abyss.

UIIII win.

11:22 / 18.09.02

Was reading SFX last night (shut it!) and Dave Langford's column was about using real life people for fictioanal characters names as a personal dig at the person in question.
He seems to think that greg is based on some US critic Greg Feely(or could be Feeley, or a variation therof) and gregs shitty life is one big joke on the real life greg.
Any of you hear anything about this?

jUne, a sunshiny month

11:25 / 18.09.02

damnfuck, i knew that it's no good to read you guys as far as i haven't already receive #4... dmanfuctme...

18:08 / 18.09.02

Hey!

Alternative title for this series:

“ Dharma and Greg ”

Do you see? Do you see what I just did there??

18:25 / 18.09.02

Actually, thinking about it, perhaps a better name would be “ Karma and Greg ” – you know, “karma” in the sense of psychic and psychological attachment, rather than “karma” in the sense of future reward or punishment – except –

– ah, shit, I’ve fucked it up, haven’t I?

18:58 / 18.09.02

frosty: Oh, and I'll be disappointed if Greg's not a 'podiophile'.

Smile: If he's not - and I'm beginning to doubt that he is, now, despite being the first person here to suggest it - then he's going to be set up as being one by The Hand for some reason. Think what Greg/Ned is told as he leaves his house in the first issue.

“Greg Feely” “is” a “para-personality”. I imagine that whether or not “he” “is” a paedophile is determined by who has control of “scripting duties” for this “character” at any particular moment in time.

“All of this is shit… We’re all shit… Greg Feely can be anyone…”

19:54 / 18.09.02

Noticed on page 2 panel 1 that Feely's got a picture of a clown up on his wall. What's up w/ that?

Graeme McMillan

02:00 / 19.09.02

"“Greg Feely” “is” a “para-personality”. I imagine that whether or not “he” “is” a paedophile is determined by who has control of “scripting duties” for this “character” at any particular moment in time."

I was referring to the Ned/Greg amalgam, not Greg as a concept/para-personality.

The Natural Way

07:48 / 19.09.02

The Clown picture's there to disturb.

15:06 / 19.09.02

fenris10111- Maybe the whole thing can be mapped on a tree of life
1-10 are sepheroth and 11-13 are the "negative veils"
1 starts with a twin earth, the Malakuth/[whatever the qliphotic equivilent is.]
and so on...

I think this is a great theory! Sorta like the opposite of what Alan Moore is doing in Promethea. If that's Sophie's tour of the Seperoth then this is sorta like Jack Faust's (obvious parallel with Feely) march through the Qliphoth (or whatever)

Thoughts.

15:37 / 19.09.02

So, in Jungian terms, it could be thought of as a descent into the shadow archetype: of the self, of society, of the world, reality, comics, the Cabala, etc.

I find it both horrifying yet fascinating, though I suppose that's the point of the whole thing: being attracted in some way to what repels you as a kind of unification of opposites. Another magickal working?

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