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Sex Workers - Is anything wrong with the status and conditions thereof, and how, if necessary, should change be made?

 
  

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Papess
15:11 / 17.09.02
From the Article
In Europe's prostitution capital, Amsterdam, only two prostitutes have been murdered while working in the last five years. In Britain, the most recent case was just three months ago. The victim was 21 years old, a heroin addict and pregnant. Her name, Danielle Moorcroft, like those of other murdered prostitutes, was quickly forgotten. Most of these women you will never have heard about. Their deaths rarely make the national press.

See the difference?

If the goverment of Britan, Canada, even the U.S (although they at least have Nevada!) would just plain accept that this profession is not going to go away, maybe some of these poor women would have had a goddamn chance!

As much as I am anticipating the impositions the Government will make on this industry, if it leads to a safer industry, I am all for it.

Firstly, these girls must learn that this is a buisness and must be run like any other business!. No getting high or scimping on safety precautions. Keep a bank account and dears, please pay your taxes!...need I mention Al Capone!

The laws that are put in place only further antagonize the STW's (the ones on the streets)situation, leaving them with little or no recourse if attacked or ripped off. This is why pimps and violent johns feel at liberty to victimize these prostitutes.In places were it is legal, ie: Amsterdam and Nevada, U.S.A, it is not a life-threatening situation for these girls/boys.

How to make changes...hmmm, that is a difficult question.

I made my own personal changes so I could be safe but, I still know this is a rampant problem globally. It basicaly the double standard and organized crime that keep these workers from being protected.

The organized crome bit is a no-brainer, they do not want their "assets" absconding with all their profits. The Mob gains in triplicate here: the money from the girls' tricks, the money from her pimp for drugs and of course terrritorial protection...not to mention any other "crime taxes" the chain of command can think up.

The double standard is the Governments fault. Very rarely are the johns given equal penalty to the prostitutes'. This is just one way the double standard rears it's ugly face. This problem is prevelant in most female-dominated professions, however. If they would protect these STWs, it would mean less murders of the ones who work on the street and better conditions for the clients as well.

Maybe standards and regulations would do away with the young minor on the street, hooked on crack or heroin, getting abused or even murdered by johns and pimps. But, is this considered? Nooooo. Puritan attitudes in government will make sure of this, looking the other way and not realizing that they too are the reason so many of these women and boys are dead. They are Accessories to Murder if you ask me. Isn't it the governments duty to protect their citizens?

If the only form of socail security comes in the form of a pimp then you can be sure, that is where these girls/boys. (Boys apparently are a hot commodity. A pimp I used to know was making a killing off these young men. He would call them his "Man-ho's") will have to go until the appropriate measures are taken.

That is all I can type right now. I will have to do more research for y'all

~MT
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:44 / 17.09.02
Maybe standards and regulations would do away with the young minor on the street, hooked on crack or heroin, getting abused or even murdered by johns and pimps. But, is this considered? Nooooo. Puritan attitudes in government will make sure of this, looking the other way and not realizing that they too are the reason so many of these women and boys are dead. They are Accessories to Murder if you ask me. Isn't it the governments duty to protect their citizens?

This, it strikes me, is one of the cruces of the matter. Government, certainly in the UK, is failing completely to look after people who are in great need of help. Because their entire existence - the drugs they take, the the way they get money for the drugs, often the places they live - are criminalised. As Laurence might suggest, the issue here is not gender (boys, although a smaller group, are perhaps no less at risk) but class - these people are targets because, on some level, "nice" people sort of expect them to die in squalour. It's what is expected of them.

Problem is, there's a dangerous road to hoe here between protection and paternalism. The Dutch model seems to work pretty well in the main - if I understand correctly, prostitutes are licensed, declare their earnings, some actually work for state welfare agencies (although whether this is still prostitution is ambiguous - one woman specialised in having sex with the severely disabled as a therapeutic measure), but are no more expected to declare the identities of their customers than a shopkeeper would be obliged to tell who exactly had given him each note in his till. The cash economy is a wonderful thing here.

In the extreme situations Maggie o' Kane is talking about, maybe something more is requird - a sort of halfway house cum shooting gallery cum brothel where former streetwalkers can cut back on their drug consumption while still keeping their hand in, as it were. The main problem I can see with this is that the punters might be rather antsy, but what's materially different as long as the transaction remains anonymous.

As to whether the availability of clean bedding, anonymity, no fear of police persecution, prostitutes with (at least) access to clean needles and so on could induce johns to give up the illicit thrill of the nasty....well, I don't know. I find it very hard to think myself into the role of somebody who would pay for sex, as opposed to lie, manipulate, deceive, emotionally blackmail and browbeat like all right-thinking folks. My common sense suggests that, if a john likes young women, he might choose a safe, licensed, legal 16-year old over a 14-year old being caught in an act of congress with whom would result in a very serious ass-kicking by the powers that be, they having now made a start on separating ambivalence about the sexual act from the need to protect the people at the bottom of the scale most likely to be exploited.

So, those would be your pornai, and then the next level up you would have the sort of position Ms Tricks seems to occupy - a small businessperson, in effect, paying taxes on her earnings but being able to write off business expenses against that tax, with their own venue, equipment and so on, who cater to a more solvent and/or specialist crowd, and who are through situation less in need of the protection of the state and thus able to function largely independently of it - the Amsterdam model. Which I suppose would put the "high class call girls", professional partners &c. at the top of the pile...

Hang on. I just described Classical Athens, didn't I? I thought it sounded familiar.
 
 
Papess
18:07 / 17.09.02
Tannhauser wrote:
...well, I don't know. I find it very hard to think myself into the role of somebody who would pay for sex, as opposed to lie, manipulate, deceive, emotionally blackmail and browbeat like all right-thinking folks.

Oh that is toooo funny!!

~MT
 
 
telyn
20:13 / 17.09.02
That sounds similar to that lovely quote

"It's the sex you don't pay for that costs the most".

Watching a dodgy thursday night channel 5 thing, I heard about a lady in Berlin who runs a bar and 'hotel'. The various girls (all freelance, not directly connected to her) meet in the bar below, where potential clients also meet for drinks. If a client finds a lady s/he likes then the girl hires a room on an hourly basis from the landlady. It's an excellent system: a nice environment and relatively safe too. Because the landlady only hires out the rooms, her establishment doesn't qualify as a brothel and she can't be prosecuted.
 
 
bacon
23:15 / 17.09.02
When we were young my friends "A" and "B" were doing it for dope. They were very open about it. They said shit like,
"It's just an act."
"What's the big deal?"
4 years after they cleaned up they were all fucked up and afraid to come home because we all knew "the truth". The truth was alot bigger in their minds than ours. But they surpressed it so long that when they finally faced what they were doing it engulfed them. Those two are gonna' be fucked up forever.
 
 
Seth
23:42 / 17.09.02
Their parents fucked them up, if you ask me. Who would call their kids "A" and "B?"

Saw an interesting C4 documentary just now (well, caught snippets is probably more accurate), which mentioned in passing that the legalisation and subsequent regulation of prostitution in Amsterdam has caused the unfortunate side effect of there being both legal and illegal prostitutes, where conditions are worse than ever for those who are practising illegally. While legalisation could well be a step in the right direction, I guess it's unlikely to solve everything for everyone.
 
 
Papess
10:44 / 18.09.02
So true exp. Some people try to get around the system no matter how liberal.

I guess it is the consumer's choice at that time. Do they want someone who has been tested for HIV and has the seal of approval or do they want to take chances with someone who is undercutting the legal STWs and take their chances?

You get what you pay for!

~MT
 
 
Papess
17:58 / 24.09.02
From the "...Ethics of a Punter" thread

Haus states:
Problem there being, where is the first step going to be made? I would hope governments could work to destigmatize sex work as, say, the Dutch government has destigmatised heroin ("it's not the greatest idea in the world, there is this health risk and this health risk, but if you really feel it's the thing for you, come to this warm, comfortable space, use our clean needles, make sure the stuff you are injecting is not cut with anything dangerous, and let's minimise the risks as much as possible, rather than force you to live in the shadows).

But, as you say, it seems unlikely that a British government is likely to do either in a hurry, more's the pity. I* suspect it is not so much a principled stand or a desire to play to the gallery - it's just not caring. Sex workers don't have much of an electoral presence, and sex worker issues are not a big vote-winner, so why bother?


So my question is: How do sex workers appeal to the Legislature in order to bring about the social contract for their safety and welfare?

Does anyone have any ideas?

~MT
 
 
Papess
10:38 / 28.09.02
Prostitution in Canada:
The Invisible Menace or the Menace of Invisibility?



From the article:
Throughout time prostitution has aroused a wide range of emotions from the communities in which it exists. Some are morally outraged by its presence, others merely curious. Some view it as a threat, others as a necessary evil. However, at least in recorded history, no society has completely accepted it as a valid and integral part of the community. Prostitution is something to be abhorred or tolerated but never condoned. It is a "nuisance," a "problem," but above all it is an embarrassment. For the religiously inclined it reminds us that we are far from the moral standards set for us by most scriptures. For government officials it is considered a sign of their mismanagement since prostitution is taken to symbolize a society in decline. For police officials it is a blotch on their record, an indication of incompetency, because it is something they are unable to control much less eradicate. For many feminists it signals the continued entrenchment of the patriarchy, the ultimate exploitation of women, a significant indication of how far we are from achieving full gender equality. Prostitution is the poor relative of whom we are slightly ashamed, the black sheep of the family who is a reproach to our cultural image of ourselves. And so like most families in this situation we would keep prostitution out of sight, if not out of mind, as much as possible.

....

(This) gender bias does more than result in an inequality of criminal charges however. Prostitutes are punished for their deviant behaviour on an unofficial level as well, by a higher rate of violence directed towards them by both the general public and the police. "Violence," in this case includes "low level" violence such as the day-to-day verbal abuse street prostitutes receive, as well as the more serious violence of theft, assault [67] or murder. The mortality rate in Canada for girls and women in prostitution is 40 times the national average. [68] Similar statistics have been reported in the United States. [69]

....

if prostitutes and community officials must learn to work together, prostitutes must have some sort of representation which is acknowledged by all. Therefore, prostitutes should be enabled to become more politically active. Prostitutes' rights groups must be encouraged to take a prominent place in the political sphere. In countries where this has occurred there have been multiple benefits. Prostitutes' groups have been able to dispel many of the public myths regarding prostitution and create a better relationship between the public and prostitutes. [161] Where prostitutes' groups have received political backing, they have also been successful in helping to create reasonable legislative and judicial reform.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:34 / 06.10.02
I'm bumping this, because I think May has put forward a very interesting document, and we should be looking at it with a view to feeding into the "ethics of the punter" thread, as well as this one.

Will return to it myself when I have a chance to formulate a response. In the meantime, jump in. What do *you* feel the effects of the measures proposed would be?

Fred - I think you might be interested in this, as it ties quite nicely into your "is prostitution victimless" question in the ounter thread.
 
  

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