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New X-Men #130

 
  

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Murray Hamhandler
18:27 / 20.08.02
(more geekery): Isn't Doug Ramsey still sort of alive? Didn't he fuse w/Warlock to become...Douglock? He was in Excalibur for a little while and then got his own title (titled simply Warlock once cooler heads prevailed). So he's still among the living, so to speak.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:39 / 20.08.02
Well, just cos Doug Ramsey is dead doesn't mean that they just can't make up a new character with exactly the same ability. I mean, how many telepaths are in the X-world? How many people who can fly, or shoot beams, or be really strong? There's already a lot of redundancy, and having some reduncancies makes more sense if it really is an evolutional thing.

Barbepact: if any of us ever gets to write an X-Men comic, we have to include someone with Cypher's power, and we've got to have the portrayal be similar to Tom's ideas, cos his are the most developed and cool. Got it?
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
20:03 / 20.08.02
yeah i don't think it will be hard for writers to make doug back from the dead. from my anti-creating little mind, i see multiple possibilities to bring him back, with this doug/warlock fusion as a good start to find issues for him.
after reading yours last words, ladies and gentlemen, i wonder what GM wait for ; with doug, he got some of the nicest examples of useless character for classic X-tales, but so ideal for GM and co new stories...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:42 / 20.08.02
Wait, why would it be a good thing to bring back the Douglock character, who really has nothing to do with the interesting part of the Doug Ramsey character, that being he's NOT a robot-creature, but a mutant who has amazing interpretative abilities? When he's a dead boy merged with a robot, he loses his entire appeal. It's not nearly as special for a robot to have the abilities that Doug Ramsey had, y'know?

Like I said, if there can be multiple telepaths in the X-world, there's no good reason why a new kid can't enroll in the Institute with pretty much the same mutant talent that a former student, now departed, had.
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
22:06 / 20.08.02
well, i'm not for a douglock back. i was thinking that making him back as a doug ramsey should be cool enough, just telling that writers have a large choixe of bringing him back through the organic bots as magus or warlock... now, of course, there's nothing so boring to revitalize somebody dead in the comics land. but sometimes it works, no ?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:34 / 21.08.02
Runce's wish Pranny suggested Reed Richards as an ambassador for human culture. Afterall, he is Mr. Fantastic; a kind of Bob Dobbs-y, pipe-smoke-y, all-round regular guy (the "Mr." component), but he's also his family's gateway to a whole world of reality bending weirdness (the "Fantastic").
He's got one foot in the mundane, the earthly, the human and the other in the stars. The perfect bridge.


Except he spent a fair while trying to 'cure' his son of being a mutant. Sounds a bit phobic to me.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:14 / 22.08.02
Simple: Ummmm. Ignore all that crap.
 
 
glassonion
17:46 / 22.08.02
don't have to forget it. just a silly dad worrying guiltily about his son being the target of race-hatred. doesn't make stretcho a monster.
 
 
houdini
19:32 / 22.08.02
Couple of thoughts on Cypher:

Firstly, the character never worked as a jump-on point for reader empathy, in the same way that kids never empathized with Robin. Kids don't want to imagine being Batman's juniour partner, they're perfectly ready to imainge being Batman himself. The New Mutants was the first US comic I started reading, aged 10, and the characters I empathized with were Bobby (Sunspot), Warlock and Illyana (Magik). Cypher was always The Lame One, which is presumably why Weezie Simonson was given editorial permission to kill him so as to generate 10% extra sturmunddrang during the whole 'Fall Of The Mutants' thingie.

Having said that, Doug undeniably WAS a mutant and was capable of doing superhuman things. For instance, the issue where he (maybe) wins at poker by decoding his opponents' body language, or in NM #50 when he 'hacks' Magus's DNA (presumably AT LEAST) as complicated as human DNA and reverts him to a childlike state in about 5 minutes, tops. He was also a pretty likeable character and I always felt a bit of resentment at killing him off purely on the grounds that he was The Lame One when this (a) wasn't true except by the most narrow of viewpoints (the one which dictates your coolness as a superhero = the splashiness of your power) and (b) any perceived lameness could've been changed by telling more varied and interesting stories in which old Cypher would've been given a chance to shine.

On the Douglock thing: As I understand it (and this is pieced together, because I refused to read all that Phalanx tosh that mid-90's-Marvel threw together) Douglock wasn't technically the reborn Warlock-Doug-Ramsay hybrid who'd been hinted at in NM #53 and #97, but actually an entirely different member of the Phalax, with a (yawn) origin story similar to Warlock's, who'd come to Earth and decided to assume Doug-and-Warlock's identity as some kind of bizarre covers-band type tribute. (Anyone wonder WHY I wasn't into collecting these issues...?) Personally, I feel that there are interesting things that could be done with this character, but only by applying a lot of cleansing acid to the essential stupidity of its premise.

And GM already IS doing tales with characters using powers similar to Cypher's. Remember Emma downloading Chinese into Scott's head during NXM 2001? And I'll just betchya that Xorn has some pretty intense mental abilities available to him. What kind of processing could you run on a "living star" anyhow?

Why d'you think Fantomex keeps pouring water (?) on his head?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:38 / 22.08.02
He kept pouring water on his head cos it's hot under his mask. That simple!

When I was a kid I thought Cypher was really cool. Honestly.

I understand the point of killing off Cypher in the context of the story, I don't think it was as crass as "kill the lame one", it was about the defenseless guy getting killed cos a) he was brave and saved the life of his friend and b) the kids had gotten into a situation that they shouldn't have. It was about showing the other kids that they are just kids, and not superheroes, and still had a lot to learn. They had the death of their friend to live with from there on.
 
 
ciarconn
01:40 / 02.09.02
Sorry to post this question, but sometimes I am a little behind on somethings:
What is the magic mirror? Is it related to Morrison's magic theories?
 
 
The Natural Way
07:22 / 02.09.02
I think the only answer to that that'd make any sense would have to be: go read the Invisibles.
 
 
The Falcon
22:30 / 02.09.02
Fantomex 'is' John a'Dreams, right? Has anyone said this?

White suit, extra-dimensional/fictional character, yeah?

What's under that mask?

Etc.
 
 
ciarconn
23:53 / 02.09.02
Gee, I think Fantomex draws on several different archetypes. Fantomas and Batman being obvious refferences (Hey, I read the mexican comic of Fantomas many years ago: and the similarities were obvious for me, starting with the mask and following with the attitude and the Fanto-cave), with a Matrix taste, into the X-men/Morrison-enriched continuity.

It would be of interest to nottice that when the mask lossens, he speaks of himself in plural. Perhaps he is so inteligent because he has multiple minds inside his head (the nanosentinels)
 
 
Ganesh
09:23 / 03.09.02
I assumed that part of the mask's function was to stop his brains leaking out of his head like his Weaponly chum...
 
 
ciarconn
13:47 / 03.09.02
YOu know, I was thinking that perhaps Zona (the cauliflowerbrain guy) and Fantomex are to be seen as two sides of the same coin, or like opposites. Some where he says that the other guy gets to reproduce his conscience in other beings, while he (Fantomex) "got to be smart". He eviedently is smart, and has other, huh, "brain" powers. He evbidently creates a subjective reality for PrfX and Grey while they are in the EVA (the discoherence of time is evidente between their expirience and the Field team on the tunnel). The whole Fantomex concept is created by him (weapon 12b?), and it works ("there was no european superthief"... "now there is"). And he seems to have some biofeedback type control of himself.

EVA is another interesting point. EVA is Eve in spanish. the first woman, created by God from the rib of Adam. When I caught that, I remembered the women around the mexican version of Fantomas (then again, I had not read anything on the french, original version until three days ago). EVA is Fantomex´sidekick? his couple? A symbiont?
 
 
glassonion
18:42 / 03.09.02
i like that thinking. perhaps not brain powers tho, maybe more likely that jean and charlie never left the you-foe, which created a quasi-environment for them. nano-sentinels...may your bulletts never run dry.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:03 / 03.09.02
hmmm... I would Imagine that the whole experience Jean & Charles had at Fantonex's Home, was all experienced while in EVA. Their whole debate & Fantomex's self surgery was a sort of dressing for their journey outside of normal space/time. Similar to how the Invisibles charactors each "dress" the Harliquinade according to their world view.

Fantomex as Harlequin?

I miss Cypher as well... always thought there was such potential in his "language" mutation... especially in the context of Invisible cosmology. Or Terrence McKenna's theories of the Universe as Language. Imagine if such a mutant found himself in the home of The Watcher!

Also Perhaps Fantomex was Weapon XIII... this would also dovetail nicely with the Anuibus imagery... 13=Death?
 
 
Graeme McMillan
21:19 / 03.09.02
"Also Perhaps Fantomex was Weapon XIII..."

In that Jean called him Weapon Thirteen at the end of the issue, I don't think that that idea is particularly shocking...
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:41 / 03.09.02
Oh yeah . . .
 
 
The Falcon
23:37 / 03.09.02
I still say he's John a'Dreams in strong fictionsuit. John's everyone; everyone's John.
 
 
ciarconn
00:29 / 04.09.02
Hey, if you want to see some interesting applications of Cypher's power, check out the New Mutants fanfics in the Age of Onslaught site. (on the side, I wrote the Cadre K fanfic, Criticisms apreciated as PM, if you will)

They take him far beyond the Age of Apocalypse level.
 
  

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