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File Under: Reasons To Hate Fanboys

 
  

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the Fool
06:36 / 21.08.02
Some people really like to yell don't they? Pages and pages of it. ENDLESS CAPS LOCK SHOUTING FEST THAT GO ON FOREVER, WITH UNENDING INNUENDO AND LOTS OF CHEST BEATING AND PETTY INSULTS AND...

Bio K9's right, it is a flaming pit of hell. Lets never go there again...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:09 / 21.08.02
Let's not be unfair. I'm sure that there are lots of very intelligent and able posters on Millarworld, and many valuable and interesting threads. It just happens that that wasn't one of them. Although I did enjoy the sarcastic rejoinder to the comment that the BNP had little public support.

"AND THE BROWNSHIRTS WERE REALLY WEAK IN 1935"

Umm..yes. Actually. Because Hitler had had their leadership massacred in 1934. You're right. They were.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:32 / 21.08.02
You should've seen the homosexual "debate".
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:25 / 21.08.02
COULD IT BE 'POLITICAL CORRECTNESS' HAS SILENCED THE TONGUES OF THE EDUCATED?

APPARENTLY SO.


Do you think that's a real photo of the shouting man? Wooooh.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:34 / 21.08.02
I think that's Stone Cold Steve Austin...
 
 
Jack Fear
12:23 / 21.08.02
Oh, yeah, like we've never had a discussion on this board that's crawled up its own arse and out the other side...

Holiday in Selfawaria, guys. All this "Us and Them" bullshit is getting tiresome.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
13:05 / 21.08.02
Yeah, we get a bit frumious on occasion, Mr. Fear... I ain't never seen shite on Barbelith like that, though. Us/Them bullshit aside, I think being repelled by a lot of the crap on that forum is entirely justified.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:34 / 21.08.02
Oh yes.
 
 
glassonion
16:27 / 21.08.02
there's a real lack of huomour there i find. and why do you want to put a picture of how ugly you are next to your name and then have a quote from dan jurgens or someone follow you around all the time at the foot of your post? us lot really are fucking excellent you know. neighbouring tribes always experience friction
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:43 / 21.08.02
God, those sig files or whatever are annoying. They take up three times as much space in the post as the actual post in a lot of cases. Thank Elvis we don't have those here...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:49 / 21.08.02
Uh... guys? We've just reopened Barbie's Undies to new members, yes? And there's still a certain degree of scratchyness around from the last time someone decided that dissing the prevailing culture of another messageboard would be a fun way to pass an idle hour, yes? Do we really, really want to go through all that again?
 
 
Ellis says:
18:17 / 21.08.02
Personally I find looking at the dynamics of other web communities fascinating- although Millarworld hasn't been up long enough to create an identity (or an impression of one) yet.
 
 
glassonion
17:41 / 22.08.02
there's plenty THERE to make an impression. i enjoy the odd lurk but haven't yet been moved to respond to anything. the chat THERE ain't as much fun as here yet, but THEY don't care. as for the 'really really' stuff i don't know what you mean so yeah fuck it i'll go through it again.
 
 
The Falcon
03:06 / 27.08.02
A brief word in defence of Hero Realm.

There is no Christian Right agenda there that I can discern, and many of the posters are polite and, even - yes, charming. They just care about continuity and character in their franchise characters a little too much.

"They're all very lovely friends of mine." Well, some of them.

However, if we all like these wee fictional universes, which I do, these people are kind of a necessity.

I've made it my project to try and help them understand/enjoy New X-Men, which - I think you'll agree - is a samaritan thing to do. Feel fee to join me; my ident is Jack Frost 23 there.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:32 / 27.08.02
[[ However, if we all like these wee fictional universes, which I do, these people are kind of a necessity. ]]

No.

We don't.

They aren't.

Nostalgia is poison: these people are toxic.

[[ I've made it my project to try and help them understand/enjoy New X-Men, which - I think you'll agree - is a samaritan thing to do. ]]

No.

Fuck it.

Let them burn.

This is called natural selection.
 
 
some guy
12:04 / 27.08.02
Nostalgia is poison: these people are toxic.

Surely New X Men is little more than a nostalgia exercise, the Claremont years 'remixed' by Grant Morrison?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:11 / 27.08.02
I wouldn't know. I haven't read it. I outgrew the fucking X-Men fifteen years ago, no matter who's writing or drawing it.
 
 
sobel
14:04 / 27.08.02
can't undo?
 
 
sobel
14:11 / 27.08.02
I've come over from Millar World. I follwed a trail and this is where I ended up.

Nice place.

Smart people.

where's the sex?
 
 
sobel
14:13 / 27.08.02
undo last post.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:45 / 27.08.02
Click on "moderate post," under your name, log a moderation action, and sooner or later one of our kindly moderators will fix it for you.

Nice to have you here.
 
 
sobel
14:59 / 27.08.02
thranks
 
 
sleazenation
15:31 / 27.08.02
Actually I'm not certain that this thread serves any useful purpose at all.

Anyone object to its being scrapped?
 
 
The Natural Way
15:38 / 27.08.02
Nah. It's bollocks really, innit? And it's making everyone go all unpleasant and bitchy.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:40 / 27.08.02
Oh yes: hello, undo. Stay here (one final bitch) - it's much nicer than millarworld.
 
 
bio k9
18:19 / 27.08.02
Plus: We talk about She-Hulks tits all the time!
 
 
sobel
19:21 / 27.08.02
goodbye thread
 
 
The Falcon
15:01 / 28.08.02
Dear Mr. Fear,
Speaking of poison - your attitude smacks of it. What comics do you read? Looking at the comics forum, I can see a sizeable portion of it is dedicated to superhero works.

Well, boo hoo. I am far from retarded and.. yet.. I.. like.. the idea of Marvel and DC universes, even if a large amount of them are badly written tripe.

Yer right, though, nostalgia is toxic. And...?
 
 
Jack Fear
15:23 / 28.08.02
Don't have a problem with superheroes per se, O Adjectiveless Namesake: only with franchises—"shared universes," episodic works by diverse hands, the way that the commercial demands (There Must Be Product Every Month) overrides basic artistic impulses (Good Stories Have a Beginning, Middle, and End).

For instance, I read PLANETARY (when it comes out), and have no qualms with it being a superhero book. But it's got a singularity and purity of vision that comes from the creation being inextricably, contractually linked to the creators, and it's telling a single story. If PLANETARY were a Marvel property, we'd have seen a dozen Terry Kavanagh/Igor Kordey fill-in issues by now.

Anything a writer does on a franchise book is essentially meaningless, because it can all be undone in a single stroke: character development can be reversed, characters can come back from the dead, life-altering events can be explained away with pocket universes, robot doubles... all manner of cheats. And in fact a lot of this retconning is driven by the demands of the fans.

That's a horrible stricture for a writer to have to work under, and it's not conducive to good writing. And even on those occasions when excellent work is produced under those restraints, that work can still be rendered invalid in a heartbeat.

The system's entire purpose is to produce work of acceptable mediocrity. The occasional exception does not justify the continuance of a fucked system.
 
 
The Falcon
16:16 / 28.08.02
Hey, I don't know. Are you the fellow that hates Igor Kordey? He's an excellent artist in my opinion.

I apologise (slightly) for the tone of my last post, but you did seem bent on shorting everything I had to say in a manner that wasn't open to dialogue. Ellis' 'Excalibur' had a beginning, middle and end. As Morrison's NXM will. 'Dark Phoenix' does - it's in a tpb. Or 'From the Ashes'. What goes on afterward need not devalue these things in and of themselves.

I thought it slightly presumptuous of you to speak for everyone here, stating that 'we don't' like fictional universes. I don't buy franchises, personally, although some teenage kid that wasted a lot of money inside me was thrilled to hear about New X-Men when it was announced. I have not been disappointed.

I'm not saying they're faultless by any stretch of the imagination (DCU, MU.) Bear in mind, Planetary is part of the Wildstorm Universe, too. However, the idea of all these thousands of books accumulating to one whole entity, independent of any single vision is, to me, conceptually exciting.

A lot of the faults you mention are also nowhere to be seen at New Marvel, truth be told.

Anyway, I was defending a site, which on first look, had me thinking in a similar fashion to yourself, but that somehow became compelling to me. And who's residents are nowhere near the caricature you have painted of them. I enjoy going and fighting my corner aganst a consensus there. Viral tec, remember?

(*petulantly*) Hey, man, it's a free world - and you can't stop me.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:40 / 28.08.02
Based on Jack Fear's logic all of Isaac Asimov's work is worthless purely because the publishers hired some hack to 'rewrite' some of his books and a few new books for things like his Hari Seldon series. It possibly wipes out Philip K. Dick's canon because of the new Blade Runner books, though it could be argued they are sequals to the movie and not the book the movie came from...
Also, despite the fact that his Sandman beared no relation to any previous holder of the title, that invalidates Neil Gaiman's 'Sandman'.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:11 / 28.08.02
Lada: just because it gets done in "proper" books doesn't make the practice any less abhorrent.

And your comparison doesn't quite hold, does it--because you're still thinking of the Foundation series as "Asimov's books," rather than as "Hari Seldon books." The original works are still closely identified with the creator in a way that true franchise books are not. I don't think Grant Morrison's NewXmen be said to be a "continuation" of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's work in the same way.

Similarly, while the Blade Runner novels may embroider and elaborate on the source film, they're not going to invalidate or reboot it in any meaningful way. The closest equivalent to these comics in the prose camp would be Star Trek novels and their ilk.

adjectiveless: First, a point of order: you used the royal "we" before I did. If we all like these wee fictional universes...

Second:

the idea of all these thousands of books accumulating to one whole entity, independent of any single vision is, to me, conceptually exciting.

And to me, not. No need to paint yourself as a martyr over this.
 
 
sobel
17:38 / 28.08.02
hello again thread
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:50 / 28.08.02
I think that Jack Fear has a good point about the corporate-properties, but I don't think it's nearly as black & white as he makes it out to be - plenty of worthy work can be created in that system, stories that do have an end even if later writers change all of it.

And the notion that simply by owning your creative property alone makes that work more worthwhile is really foolish - plenty of creator-owned work is no better or worse than corporate properties, in terms of quality. Even though most of the comics that I enjoy the most now are creator-owned, I would say that Grant Morrison's New X-Men or Peter Milligan's X-Statix are both infinitely superior to most of the dross put out by Image or Oni Press, and certainly stomps all over Planetary which reads like a fourth-tier Marvel comic. (Think "Thunderbolts" or "Captain Marvel")
 
 
some guy
18:02 / 28.08.02
Nikki's off the island tonight, Flux.

I agree that singularity of creatorship does not inherently make things better or worse. The dreadful 1990s do not negate the wonderful stories and characters of the 1980s X-Men for me, any more than umpteen production teams have ruined long-running series such as EastEnders or Doctor Who. Milligan's doing better work via franchise right now than he's ever done in creator-owned work.

I think it's backward to call a story a thing with a beginning, middle and end. Sure, some stories can be defined that way. But almost by definition that's not what serials are about. Some of us get off on the serial nature of certain franchises, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are different kinds of storytelling.

Hell, part of the fun for me is waiting to see how they inevitably bring back Magneto and crush Charles' legs again...
 
  

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