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Northern Lights/ The Golden Compass - The Film

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
pony
05:00 / 02.12.07
just saw the sneak preview... it was really good. more info tomorrow once i figure out how to work the spoiler taggage.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
14:50 / 02.12.07
Hmmm. I'm really not seeing Daniel Craig as Lord Asriel. Not sure who i *would* cast for him, however, except possibly Christopher Lee about 30 years ago (which seems to be my answer for almost every casting problem at the moment)...

Kidman looks awesome, however (although i'm slightly annoyed that they changed the character's hair colour)... and, from the posters i've seen, the armoured bears will ROCK (despite the armour not looking exactly how i expected it to - a bit too intricate, IMO, whereas i imagined at least Iorek's armour as very rough, functional and kind of spikey looking).

I have trouble imagining what Hollywood would do with the second and third books - frankly, i'm not sure if they're filmable (except perhaps just possibly as anime). My suspicion is that they will cut out the whole Mary Malone/wheeled aliens subplot (which is, IMO, extremely different in tone from the rest of the books, reminiscent of a cross between Ursula Le Guin and CS Lewis's space trilogy, as opposed to the Alan Garner-meets-China Mieville vibe of the rest of HDM, and which i *really* can't see working in Hollywood film format - not even the look of the malefa(?)) and the "New Eve" thing, and possibly also the naughty stuff happening between Lyra and Will, and make up some other reason for Lyra's significance.

Of course, that would leave a huge gaping hole of what to do for the ending - but i suspect that Pullman's ending is far too depressing for Hollywood anyway, and might well be scrapped in favour of one that will allow for a series of "further adventures" (which would, of course, be awful beyond imagination)...

Or they might just not do the other 2 books - since the first one is relatively "safe" in terms of politically/religiously contentious issues (or, at least, probably not much "worse" than LOTR or Potter)...

It's worth noting, i think, that Pullman's trilogy can be seen as a kind of "post-Christian" response to the work of CS Lewis (both Narnia and the Cosmic Trilogy) - the latter of which, in turn, was a Christian response to the "atheistic" sci-fi of the likes of Verne and Wells. (Thinking the other day about one particular parallel between Narnia and HDM - one features a powerful, kingly talking animal who helps the child protagonists, but is infinitely spiritually "higher" than humans, being in fact basically a parallel-world version of Christ, while the other features a powerful, kingly talking animal who helps the child protagonists, but is less of a spiritual being than the in-universe humans, lacking both a soul and an afterlife, and thus being merely an animal with language and sentience - which, of course, is the author's view of the reality of real-life humans...)

I actually kind of like the name change from Northern Lights to The Golden Compass - that way all 3 parts of the trilogy are named after the artefact that plays a significant role in them, which gives it a better thematic unity IMO. (Although, of course, it is annoying that it isn't actually a compass.)

Bring on the bear-fights...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:48 / 02.12.07
It's worth noting, i think, that Pullman's trilogy can be seen as a kind of "post-Christian" response to the work of CS Lewis (both Narnia and the Cosmic Trilogy) - the latter of which, in turn, was a Christian response to the "atheistic" sci-fi of the likes of Verne and Wells.

Well, it isn't post-Christian; it's manifestly and clearly anti-Christian. The Magisterium is an authoritarian monotheist church seeking to control free thought. The hierarchy of Heaven is decayed and corrupt, and a union of right-thinking people of all races opposes it.

I very much hope and confidently expect that the Malefa sections will be mercilessly cut, because they are thumpingly tedious and didactic. Mary Malone being quietly taken out and cut, as she was in the stage version, would and I think will improve the film version greatly.
 
 
pony
19:51 / 03.12.07
i'm thinking it would be pointless to break out any potential spoilers until there are some other people to discuss them with.

in the mean time, i'd just like to mention that the fans that were concerned that the anti-religious tone was going to be excised have nothing to worry about. the church is turned into "the authority", but it certainly doesn't do damage to the spirit of the book. if anything, the shift from the church of the book to the amorphous power-structure of the movie (headed up by the magisterium, which is very clearly a stand-in for the catholic church) takes the story from anti-religion to straight up anarchist.
 
 
Seth
22:51 / 03.12.07
That would seem to me to be improving on one of the main flaws of the book (see my much earlier post). I'm happy with that, although I'd be interested to see exactly how this Authority is represented in the movie before I am fully happy with it.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:16 / 05.12.07
SPOILERIFFIC (I think)

I didn't know if anyone had put this up on this thread yet, so I decided to.
 
 
Seth
16:50 / 06.12.07
It's lile a blink-and-you-miss-it tour of the book's greatest hits, minus the ending. Fans will probably be hoping for an extended version on DVD. The performances were almost all superb, with the only real downside being McKellen as Iorek. He's just too distinctive a vocal, arguably doesn't have the right voice for the character and too tied into that other fantasy franchise. If I were McKellen I'd have turned it down for at least two of those reasons. Some great effects work but very bog-standard direction. Most of the religious elements critique was left to the costume design, so I imagine they'll see how much money this makes before they decide what they can get away with in the sequels. I guess that may be why they chopped the ending.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
17:06 / 06.12.07
I haven't seen it yet, but I love the books and was excited there was going to be a movie. But the ending...really? It's gone? I thought the book's final image of a disillusioned girl and her daemon going to face the great unknown with only each other was sheer beauty.

By the way, are the witches naked in the movie? How're they handling that? I thought it was great in the book, but it did cross my mind it would be hard to portray onscreen for family-friendly audiences who will die if they see a naked human body.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
17:57 / 06.12.07
Were the witches naked in the book? I honestly don't remember that - in fact, i thought i remembered descriptions of the clothing they wore...

Actually there are a couple of other things that i've seen people mention in reviews of the HDM trilogy that make me wonder if the editions i read were somehow abridged editions - for example, people talking about the relationship between the 2 rebel angels (one of whom used to be human) in the second book as if it had been made explicit that the relationship had been of a sexual nature, whereas from my reading of the book there was nothing explicitly indicating that.

I know from Wikipedia that the editions i read (belonging to a friend) were very early UK editions because of certain details (some spellings and stuff) that were changed in subsequent editions...
 
 
Grady Hendrix
21:21 / 06.12.07
I'm pretty sure the witches were naked but, um, maybe I'm just a perv...?
 
 
Punji Steak
09:26 / 07.12.07
In the books the witches wear scraps of black silk. How much is left to the imagination of the reader so that's you pegged Hendrix.
 
 
Spaniel
10:03 / 07.12.07
El Directo, as someone who liked but by no means loved the book, should I bother? Would you describe it as a good movie on it's own terms, or a movie that's perhaps more enjoyable if you have a lot invested in the story already, or somewhere in between? I ask because it's really tough for us to get the cinema at the moment, but it looks like the wife and I might be able to squeeze in a movie over the holiday period, and I'm wondering if this should be it.

Is this one a contender, basically?
 
 
haus of fraser
10:35 / 07.12.07
I want to see this movie too Boboss- but Rotten Tomatoes says it may not be 'the one' this christmas....
 
 
DavidXBrunt
11:24 / 07.12.07
I must have mis-remembered or mis-read or been mis-informed because I thought McSane was playing Iorek, not Iofur and thought he'd be a perfect match. Now I find it's the other way around I'm a little disappointed. As good as he is I can't imagine McKellen in the role. If it had to be someone with a roaring, rolling, RSC voice I'd have gone for Brian Blessed at the bear in question.

But then I'm still pissed off that he wasn't Tree Beard or Gimli in Rings. To have one part stolen from him by an actor on my list (Come the revolution...) was bad enough but both? Madness.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:05 / 07.12.07
I guess I had the same problems with the film that I had with the book. Last week, upoun reading Peter Bradshaw's review, I felt some sympathy with the idea that he wasn't entirely convinced by Pullman's world. He did imply, however, that this was because he'd been dumped in it without the slow build that generally sells fantastic environments that come in book-sized packages. I was concerned he was wrong to be so generous, because, personally, I've always found something a little jarring about The Dark Materials' universe - the way it leaps from air-ships to armoured bears to witches to daemons to parallel realities... It lacks the internal consistency I need to really feel immersed, least of all become emotionally attached to a world. Likewise with Pullman's cosmology - he never sold it to me. There were too many points left hanging - why an underworld? who the fuck is that creator bloke anyway? Dust? Eh? etc. - and in the end the whole thing just came across as really inelegant; which totally sucks when you consider the book's fantasy-in-the-service-of-reason/philosophical enquiry/science slant. So it didn't hang together for me as a book, but i enjoyed it enough anyway... As a piece of cinema, though: not so much. It was difficult enough for me to glue it all together as novel, but when the narrative's as necessarily condensed as it has to be for the film version, well, I just felt like my imagination was pinballing from one gaggle of spectacular environments/weirdoes to the next, without any verisimillitudinous handholds to cement my imagination to. And, therefore, I just didn't give a shit. Add to that the fact that Dakota's not a terribly good child actor (I genuinely prefer american child actors to british ones, I think) and an ending that was so anti-climactic you could blink and miss it, there were no amount of great performances that could've rescued the thing.

Just to be clear, I didn't hate the Golden Compass, but I totally didn't love it.
 
 
Seth
15:14 / 07.12.07
If there's one movie I'd recommend above all others (that I've seen) for the holiday period then I'd point everyone in the direction of the extraordinary Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. It's so good it can survive a Nick Cave cameo stinking up the place (although his soundtrack is ace). Possible Barbelith thread to come.

Golden Compass, not so much.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:21 / 07.12.07
Dust? Eh?

Good one!

I ran into Pullman at the corner shop just now. He was buying 20 B&H and a Dairy Milk. I told him someone had knocked down his whole house of cards by saying "Dust? Eh?"

He burst into tears.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:31 / 07.12.07
You lying bastard. I know for a fact that PP smokes Dunhills.

In fact, he stubbed one out on his own arm when I told him just this morning that a mate of mine had collapsed his fictive tunnel with the blinding insight, "Why an underworld?"

Then he howled the desolate howl of a man without even a distant God to comfort him in his brokenness.
 
 
Saturn's nod
16:04 / 07.12.07
I've just reread the books and anti-christian isn't how they strike me. Anti- institutionalized mediaeval hierarchies, sure. I can see it would strike Catholics as anti-christian, from the linguistic borrowings - 'heresy' 'Magisterium' - alone. But from my reading, there's no Jesus in the books at all, unless in the sense I understand him: as champion of the downtrodden, reverser of fortunes, architect of the fair and just world to come, in which he could clearly be inferred to be on the side of the children and rebels.

I didn't find him mentioned once, nor is the word Christ there as far as I could see, nor any reference to Christianity as I know it, so it's difficult for me to read it as anti-Christian. Almost, closer to a Protestant fable on the Reformation and rise of scientific methods in Europe, and the Christian enlightenment hope for a better world constructed by humans co-operating and allying their rational powers to the desire for peace and justice.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:14 / 07.12.07
being serious again: You're quite right about there being no Jesus in His Dark Materials. I read an interview with Pullman recently where he said he'd left Him out on purpose, and he (Pullman) would "get to Him later on."

Philip Pullman's got something special planned for your Jesus, oh yes.

Jesus is, I'm sure, shitting Himself in terror as we speak.
 
 
Seth
20:45 / 07.12.07
Skipping any mention of Jesus rather makes the case for Pullman being anti-Christian rather than deflates it by removing potential counter examples (Song of Songs also doesn't fit with his argument, and so also hits the cutting room floor). The Authority, Church and Magisterium don't wear the tropes of any institution other than Christianity. You don't find any other organised religion, the military, Governments or corporations in the mix, and the only negative slant given to education systems is when there's a Christian influence involved. His depiction of the Magisterium being a stand-in for any organisational power structure therefore ring rather hollow, pretty exclusively an addition of post-book interviews. Christianity, in his own words, from the third book, is a powerful and convincing mistake... but that powerful and convincing mistake isn't really extended to anything else.
 
 
The Natural Way
21:09 / 07.12.07
You may well mock, but, to me at least, something just feels so arbitrary about Pullman's set-up. It just jars. And I know I'm not being particularly eloquent with the criticism, but I find it really difficult to unpack exactly what it is about his books that make me feel this way. I don't know, if it was a straight 'it works because it's magic!' universe then Pullman's Underworld - his God, his angels and wraiths - I would've bought the lot, but it's not. The Dark Materials-verse is a great big arrow pointing at science and philosophy 101 and I just expect more of a theoretical throughline than ol' Phil provides. To be honest, I'm not even sure that the books possess the same clarity of cosmological internal logic of most out-and-out fantasy weird-fests. At least in Lord of the Rings or Star Wars I can understand, intuitively, how and why the whole thing works. I really can't get there with Pullman. I think he's particularly bad at making his universe make sense because he's not entirely sure what the rules are.

Well, I've put myself out here, on a limb, with the Pullman dissing - I can only hope someone big and clever feels the same way as me.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:19 / 07.12.07
Star Wars.
 
 
Seth
21:25 / 07.12.07
Lor of the Ri
 
 
The Natural Way
08:46 / 08.12.07
That wasn't a defense of Star Wars, btw.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:45 / 08.12.07
Perhaps it's the lack of overdetermined Freudian Oedipal symbolism that Pigs finds so catastrophically lacking in HDM. I mean, c'mon, how can a compass, a pocket knife and a whatever the other thing was compete with a MOST AWESOME phallic light sabre and a retroactively Batailleian 'ring'?

Seriously dudes. Sexual metaphors in action adventure franchises make the whole universe much more 'believable'.
 
 
This Sunday
15:45 / 08.12.07
I'm not the only one who's fiddling with a joke about a compass needle measured against a lightsaber, right? Sexual metaphor pissing contests? Put'em away before the Pullman ties his Galatea into the Dark Materials stuff and knocks the whole lot of Star Lord Potter Wardrobe Rings into the far end of family-friendly territory a cocked hat!

More seriously, why does the big bear billboard seem to be the most prevalent - and least relevant - advertisement in existence for this thing? I won't get to see the flick until it's on DVD (promised a hospital-stuck friend I won't see it until he does), but have this weird paranoia that they've just replaced whole swathes of the book with bears smacking each other about. Not that this is entirely a bad thing for cinema. I can't imagine the projected audience they think they're raking in with the armored bear ads, really, or how they think that'll keep them coming back once they've seen the whole movie isn't that.

I swear, people all over LA, right now this very moment, think this is going to be something akin to 300 with airships and bears. (It's not, right?)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:01 / 09.12.07
Yes, they shouldn't put the bear on the poster, he's irrelevant.

GET OFF THE CRACKPIPE DAYTRIPPER YOU CRACKHEAD.
 
 
Mug Chum
17:37 / 09.12.07
MOST AWESOME phallic light sabre

Oh yeah right, like your parts don't immediatly start humming the moment the humming vibration ensues...

VVVVVBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRZZZZZZZZZMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

ring

Oh yeah right, like your sphincter doesn't immediatly shuts tight (to the point a needle couldn't pass) the moment the gentle-eyed hobbit is chased or when the dark ghosts says in mordor-speak "I smell ass!"...

Yeah right.

I'm rather curious to see how these types of films (based on books that have a rather vague cult following in other places) go over here. I don't remember something like LotR having much space in geek culture here before the film (though afterwards, it seemed to blow up).
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
23:10 / 09.12.07
Well, if this review is anything to go by, i don't think i'll bother watching it...
 
 
The Natural Way
07:12 / 10.12.07
Okay, I'm prepared to accept that my reading of Pullman's books might be, err, a little subjective, but that guy up there's repeating me almost word for word re the movie. Get it straight, compass fans, this isn't a good adaptation: I said it, my g/f said it and now PZ MYERS HAS SAID IT.
 
 
Seth
09:35 / 10.12.07
I don't think your criticisms of the books are odd at all Pigs, I felt almost exactly the same when I read them. I guess the lynchpin that held it all together was Pullman's ranting preachiness, but if you notice that it doesn't really stand up to argument then the rest starts to unravel too.
 
 
This Sunday
13:43 / 10.12.07
Yes, they shouldn't put the bear on the poster, he's irrelevant.

I mean, of course, the billboard's that are nothing but the bear. Which are, while perhaps not irrelevant, very very misleading. It's like putting up an Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe billboard of nothing but Mr. Tumnus, except there isn't nearly that level of familiarity amongst a general audience. And then making sure it's the most common advertisement for the film.

And I'm sorry I stole your crackpipe, On Final/Flyboy. I didn't realize you'd go into withdrawals that quickly.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:45 / 10.12.07
I don't understand how they're misleading. A billboard, by convention, doesn't have to incorporate every single element of a film. I don't understand why I'm having to explain this.
 
 
This Sunday
14:25 / 10.12.07
On Final, I agree they don't have to incorporate every element, but I have yet to see anyone understand what the film/story's about based on that particular ad, which is incredibly present everywhere. So (a) it's not doing the job of telling people what this film's like, and (b) it's turning off a number of people which may otherwise be a major part of the film's audience. On the other hand, it's not a bad looking ad and the detriment is only it's placement and prevalence, being misleading in atmosphere and narrative significance by focus and exclusion.

I'm not joking when I say a high number of people in LA (and other parts of the U.S.) think it's all about polar bears in armor smacking each other about and a barbarian flick. Maybe it's because it's such a prevalent ad, maybe it's because television ads of a more explicatory nature are being skipped over intensely by the power of TiVo, but yes, this is only a bother if you think it's not actually meant to be a film/story about barbarians on bears beating each other up (which isn't to say, in some ways, that isn't in there).

Advertisements that directly intrigue a market unlikely to be satisfied or ultimately interested in the product once it has been provided, while alienating the audience most likely to be satisfied and return customers, are, by nature, sort of failures. I don't know why I should have to explain this, either.
 
  

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