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China Mieville

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:57 / 16.05.02
FINALLY (having read the first two chapters of a copy found in Oxfam MONTHS AGO before finding out it was misbound and missing the last fifty pages) read China Mieville's "King Rat". Fucking excellent book- kind of shimmies between horror, thriller, "yoof culcha" novel, updated fairy tale, meditation on London, and magical realism. With beautifully-realised characters... and much drum'n'bass malarkey.
Today started his next book, "Perdido Street Station". Like a steampunk Gormenghast, only more grotesque, and more inventive (yes!) than that would suggest. And with a touch of "City of Lost Children" bunged in, as far as atmosphere goes. Only 100 or so pages in, but so far, it seems fucking wonderful.
Has anyone else read this guy? And is his new book "The Scar", as I'm assuming from the blurb, really likely to have pirates in? (Because that would be marvellous).
(Oh, and did I mention... his prose is gorgeous.)
 
 
Trijhaos
14:02 / 16.05.02
I've read King Rat and most of Perdido Street Station. King Rat's premise kind of reminds me of Megan Lindholm's Wizard of the Pigeons. Perdido Street Station was just plain weird in some parts.

I didn't know he had a new book coming out. I'll have to keep an eye out for it, especially if it has anything to do with pirates.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:20 / 16.05.02
yeah, "Wizard of the Pigeons" kind of occurred to me too... seem to remember loving that book when it came out, and not having re-read it since... I think "Perdido Street Station"'s just plain weirdness it what endears me to it... (unless it gets WAY too weird later on... at the moment, I'm loving it).
 
 
Trijhaos
14:30 / 16.05.02
Perdido Street Station is pretty consistent in the weirdness factor.

The Scar doesn't come out here until June 25 so I've got about a month to wait before I can hunt down a copy. The reviews make it sound pretty good. It's even set in the same world as Perdido Street Station.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:12 / 16.05.02
'Perdido Street Station' is probably up there as one of my favourite books ever, probably due to the amount of detail in it, little things like the musing on the Hellkin and the extensive chapters of Isaac discussing physics. The language is a bit OTT to start with but then he calms down. Does anyone else think of Gilliam when reading about the architecture of Perdido Street Station?
I'll have to find the other ones now, and I think Michael Marshall Smith's new book is due out in Autumn...
 
 
Malle Babbe
12:33 / 17.05.02
You bet I was thinking of Terry Gilliam when reading PSS!
Even though David Cronenberg might also be an effective
choice, especially in depicting the Remade.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:19 / 17.05.02
I don't think Gilliam would necessarily make a good director, there's a sense of whimsy about him, even in his more mainstream films like '12 Monkeys' which wouldn't work with 'Perdido...', it's not a comedy by any means.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:55 / 22.05.02
I'd definitely have to say Jeunet & Caro (please forgive me if I've spelt those wrong)- the mix of grotesquerie & whimsicality is pure City of Lost Children. But nastier, and with demons and stuff. Obviously. But I reckon Gilliam'd make a decent fist of it- Cronenberg would make a fantastic movie (as would Lynch) but not necessarily a good adaption...
Not sure if this is necessary, since everyone who's posted in this thread seems to have read it, but...

SPOILERS

#

#

#
etc...

Just read the bit where the grub's hatched, dispatched Isaac's "workshop-mates", and there's been a fantastic low-tech "Aliens"- style scene, with militiamen with mirrors so as not to become entranced... that was wonderful.
Although I have to admit, the "Ambassador of Hell" bit kind of left me cold- it seemed a bit "already-established mythology", whereas I liked the universe created by Mieveille entire, give or take a couple of rip-offs... a blatant use of an earthly milieu seemed a bit lazy...) UNTIL I picked up the book again, and realised I was entranced myself...
Tis good. Muchly.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:14 / 22.05.02
Looking through badly designed websites this morning I found one page that claimed his new book was set in the same universe, so maybe some of the unanswered questions will be sorted out.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:14 / 11.06.02
Just finished "Perdido Street Station" (having taken a break for a week or so cos I was working)- man, what a fucking book. 'Twas bigly good. The fact that the exact moment I formulate the thought "I really, really like this character" the plot twists and I suddenly feel bad for having thought that...
now that's writing.
 
 
Irony of Ironies
19:30 / 11.06.02
China is a God. And a damn nice looking guy as well. The books are excellent, he can really, really write.
 
 
invisible_al
19:48 / 11.06.02
Yeah I just finished King Rat and I loved it, read Perdido Street Station first and that was better, I read with with mouth open from cover to finish.
PSS has just a gorgeous world, I was hooked after the first chapter with what you realise the woman is after a few pages.
Its also the fact the city is a character in its own right, just the way that prose about it ripples off the page.
And the ideas, the Weaver and the difference engine, just one cool and interesting idea after another, I was kind of shell shocked after reading it, well that and how it ends

You can definately how that prose style develops from King Rat as well, the journey into the center of London from the country by train was beautiful and drew me in completely, was actually reading it on the train to London Bridge at the time which was weird. Only problem I had was he was a bit to earnest with his Jungalist Massive, but that was kind of sweet at the same time .

I'm really looking forward to the Scar, which I think is set in the same world...and now with pirates you say
 
 
Grey Area
17:15 / 12.06.02
Bought Perdido Street Station on the strength of people's reactions in this thread, and have to say that I was not dissapointed. The world Mieville creates is a potent blend of William Gibson and Jules Verne, which is a feast for a steam-power and sci-fi afficionado like me. Considering that a lot of the sci-fi hitting the shelves in the last two years has left me feeling very dissapointed, I'm very very pleased to have been pointed in the direction of this gem.

I'll definately be getting 'round to reading King Rat later and if what has been said here is true, and the Scar is set in the same world, then you'll see me first in line when it comes out.
 
 
Trijhaos
17:50 / 12.06.02
For those who don't already know, the Scar is out in the UK right now. Go forth and purchase your copy! Go now. Stop fighting your desire for another one of Mieville's wonderful works of fiction and buy it.

Of course, if you're one of those poor people in the United States, you must wait until June 25.
 
 
Grey Area
17:53 / 12.06.02
I'll be popping down to my friendly neighbourhood bookstore on Botanic Ave. first thing tomorrow to give them a little more business and me a little more pleasure.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:55 / 14.06.02
I've got "The Scar"... but am giving myself a few days to chill after "Perdido Street Station" before I go anywhere near it...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:34 / 16.06.02
And file this under "stuff that sucks"... last night, I went to lie down for a bit, and turned my radio on, only to hear the presenter of Radio 4's arts programme saying "And that was China Mieville discussing Philip K Dick..."
Balls. Timing, as they say, is all.
 
 
Grey Area
20:50 / 16.06.02
Sung to the tune of "Ironic":

"Mieville leaving,
when you've just switched it on..."

I despise bad timing...but hey, you might find it archived somewhere.
 
 
Trijhaos
20:58 / 16.06.02
That sucks.

What about calling up the radio station and asking if you can get a transcript or something?
 
 
Grey Area
22:00 / 16.06.02
Actually, if you get one could you post it or let me know where I can obtain a copy? Just searched the Radio 4 website and came up empty-handed. Maybe if enough of us asked they'd upload a transcript or an audio file...?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:28 / 17.06.02
Not too sure how you go about finding this stuff (other than, as you say, calling them, which sounds like a plan) but (irony of ironies) just AFTER that (I mean about a minute or so) my phone rings, it's one of my friends saying "were you just listening to R4? Cos I just switched it on and heard..." etc, etc. And his web fu's ace. I'll see if he can find something...
...although, it's just occurred to me, his nephew actually knows Mieville (I don't know how well) but if anyone's gonna have taped it, it'd be the guy himself, right? I'll call him tomorrow (the guy who knows him, that is).
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:24 / 17.06.02
check www.bbc.co.uk in the radio section, I seem to remember someone saying they were trying to keep all their radio programs on their in realaduio format for 7 days...
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
10:27 / 03.10.03
mercury was mentioning sci-fi forums... and well the genre doesn't get much better than this.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:21 / 04.07.04
I recently bought Perdido Street Station on the strength of the first chapter and the rest of it did not disappoint. I was blown away, frankly. Reminded me a lot of the first time I read William Gibson, in that those authors reminded me why I ever used to enjoy science fiction or fantasy novels by incorporating so many qualities I'd grown to expect these genres to lack, and Mieville does the same with his own blend of the two. Like Gibson and Pulman, I find myself tearing through Mieville's prose much more quickly than I do with most writers, but it stays with me, too. And it gives me the irresistable urge to get the next one.

The easiest joke to make about Mieville's style is that he must get a lot of use out of his thesaurus, but I think he actual uses the technique of repetition-with-synonyms to great cumulative effect. In PSS he seems to have an infinite number of ways to tell you that the city is dirty, until by the end you really feel the sense of how oppressive the grime can be.

So obviously he's amazing at world-building, but I think what takes PSS to another level for me is the emotional wrench: terrible things happen to people you've kinda grown to like, and it's mostly there fault. Maybe it's Mieville's politics that gives him an edge and make him stand out from the usual fantasybeard shit: of course Pulman's writing has this polemical bite too, and so did early Gibson (the problem I had with Pattern Recognition is that while the prose was more delicious than ever, Gibson and his protagonists seem to have lost a bit of their edge - he's become too cosy, to the point where resistance to branding is seen as a neurotic condition rather than a survival strategy - but I digress...).

Anyway, so ultimately I reckon Perdido Street Station is a book about complicity. Isaac is willing to make dodgy deals to get research materials (and his research is pretty nasty even if you only care for animal rights as much as I do), he doesn't ask where things come from, and things go horribly wrong. Lin is willing to volunteer her artistic services for a crimelord and not worry about the ethical implications or consequences, and things go horribly wrong. I think the way Mieville treats their little bohemian community is very interesting: he has a fondness for it, but wants to make the point that you may think you can have a cosy (middle class) life of art and sexual deviancy, but the state will fucking come for you in the end, so you better do more than pay lip service to resistance. But at a more basic level, by the end of the book, Isaac doesn't just have a political awakening, he makes a realisation about complicity. There's a very specific line that jumped out at me, which I'm going to mangle to avoid spoilers, it's something like: But if to withhold his help was to condemn ********, then to offer his help was to condone it. And that, Isaac realised, he would not do. He's learnt to think about what the consequences and moral implications of his work can be, and to take this seriously. Admittedly the cost is horrendous. But again, that's one of the things that makes Mieville - in the words of Jack The Bodiless - "Like what would happen if Gaiman stopped being tossy and wrote as well as he sometimes threatened to do during Sandman" - he's not afraid to follow through and do terrible things to his characters. He's not cosy.

I'm just under 200 pages into The Scar, and it may be even better. Old school 'Lithers may remember we once had a thread about which world from sf or fantasy we'd live in: I'm kinda tempted by Armada, even though I suspect it may turn out to be Mieville's cautionary illustration of how left-wing utopias can go awry...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
14:18 / 08.07.04
I hates me some China Mieville. I think he totally sucks, mostly because he comes very, very close to not sucking. He's all, "I'm such an educated genius that I don't have to even care about not sucking," except that you totally do have to worry about not sucking. I hate his overblown style, I hate his pompous premises, and I hate his showy line breaks. I hate that I sit there hating him for 500 pages, because it always seems like he is just on the verge of getting his shit together and if I give up on page 194, page 196 will be really cool. China Mieville makes me feel like I have an unemployed, codependant boyfriend.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
18:00 / 08.07.04
Now you got me all mad.

"Look at me, I've got a thesaurus and all these really BIG ideas about, like, culture and biology and artificial intelligence! I'm big! I'm clever! Quantum mechanics! World building!"

There is a way of doing everything right that comes out all wrong, and Mieville seems to be an expert in it. It may be that I am aggravated by the hype, which makes him out to be some kind of gutter-bred Umberto Eco, when in fact he is a ready-steady-plodder like, say, L. Ron Hubbard. Recognizing my own bias, I have twice given him the benefit of the doubt, after having felt that King Rat was approximately Drawing Blood divided by six, and felt totally used.

Of course I still respect you all.
 
 
iconoplast
19:49 / 09.07.04
Qalyn = teh foo.

I bought Perdido Street station yesterday, which I'd been meaning to do forever, but on the strength of this thread, finally remembered his last name while I was in the bookstore.

And I'm tearing through it and loving it. I find it odd that he thanks Mervyn Peake, because PSS is a lot like Gormenghast, except readable. And fun.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
20:02 / 09.07.04
I keel you!
 
 
at the scarwash
02:19 / 10.07.04
A lot like Mervyn Peake, only Peake can write and creates characters that don't sound like it's just the author doing funny voices.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:09 / 11.07.04
Qalyn- You've come across Mieville related hype? Haven't seen or read anything round my way, his books have slipped onto the shelves without seeming to trouble anyone much with publicity. And the thesaurus-thing is only really an issue for the first few chapters of PSS then it calms down. However, I'm not about to go and read any Hubbard to work out how much your insulting Mieville with the comparison there.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:33 / 13.07.04
Yeah, around when Perdido Street Station came out all the Goth zines were spewing jizz all over the internet about it.

I'm sorry, that's crude.
 
 
Grey Area
20:38 / 14.07.04
I'm failing to see how PSS was goth. I mean, some of the descriptions might have appealed to the goth aesthetic (sewers, general malaise, etc) but overall I see very little in it that screams out 'Goth!'. Anyone care to enlighten me?
 
 
iconoplast
03:08 / 15.07.04
It was dark a lot?

And I think there was mention of a vampire, at one point.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:41 / 15.07.04
The vampires are in 'The Scar' only with some other name that escapes me at the moment as I can't be bothered to walk the seven meters to my bookshelf.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:52 / 15.07.04
They're called vampires quite a lot, but also ab-dead and a bunch of other names. And the Brucolac is mostly just called the Brucolac. The poor sod.
 
  

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