BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


What Barbelith?

 
  

Page: 1(2)3

 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:02 / 03.05.02
You know what I was thinking earlier? Recombine the Spectacle.

Let's see how well that idea goes down.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
21:22 / 03.05.02
in terms of - y'know - doing stuff... and i've only been here since last august, and absent for stretches of that, so i can't ref the prehistory, but -

why don't we do 'cocksmoker'? why not put it back on the agenda? seems to me there are plenty of people around who'd be willing to contribute - all we need is a borderline benevolent dictator-style posse to do the organizin'/editin'. i'm willing.

how about this - regardless of whether there's a distro-friendly paper edition, a web page of some description hosting img + txt with absolutely no explanation or consious contextualization. just pile up a bunch of fragments and direct action pieces in free space. a completely open source, non-individual credit online experience. like a saint's 'perfect moment', like a zen shortwire.

that would be something, wouldn't it?

who's up for writing, illustrating or coding?
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:30 / 03.05.02
Well... I spend most my time on this board while at my desk... while retouching a photo or whatever else... Yeah yeah, sort of slackermode.

there seems to be a sence of urgency underlying this particular thred That I find curious... Are there bandwidth issues? I admit, for all the years I've floated around this board (Black Nexus wih that weird kids face looming from a corner) who was that kid anyway?

I digress . . .

This boards has certainly gone through many mutations... but so what?

I'm curious JACK about your coment about "playing our strengths" I don't disagree, but I'm curious about why we should

In Kungfu training one should train for one's weakness, relying on a technique or method that one is "strong" with leaves a martial artist vulnerable to attack placed upon one of their weaker "gates."

unless there's a need for downsizing... but there I go mixing metaphores...

I remember the chats on "how invisible a movie is" they sure where fun... maybe there just aren't as many invisible movies out there days... except donnie darko.

On gaming:
Well, I agree that just about any aspect of Gaming can already be discused... But why not allow for a particular section for it if the population of the underground desires it?

Same with Hockey or lets say Sports?

For some reasion Martial arts tends to come up in the magik forum...

Well, I've gotta go FTP...

Sorry if this post made no useful sence...
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:36 / 03.05.02
Cocksmoker eh?

sounds vaguely of 1,000,000 words

and or the several other variants of this concept...

I'm much more busy than before, but I'll surely lend some illos to the endevor....
 
 
autopilot disengaged
22:18 / 03.05.02
ok: new thread in Creation re:cocksmoker. all aboard.
 
 
Tom Coates
23:26 / 03.05.02
Perhaps it's time to have different objectives than in the past. Perhaps the point all along was to cross-fertilise ideas, reassure each other, to think in strange and exotic new directions, and perhaps we've done all of that. Now maybe the objective should be rather more structured. We have a vast number of intelligent and politicised people on this board who have come very close to one another. Perhaps we're relying on this place more than we should. It's very difficult to say.

Personally I think threads like this one say a hell of a lot. Thirty threads a day being updated. Thirty threads! That's not only a tiny number, but it's also very much a manageable read. We've been getting more and more reads and posts day on day, week on week for months now. I think it IS time to take stock. I think it IS time to reformulate ourselves a little... And I'm really tempted to start another Manifesto thread - what's your Barbelith manifesto - to see what comes out of it...

But I'm now looking at this place as the new 'Well.com' - it's drenched in exciting paradigms for life, it's theoretically, scientifically, spiritually, politically aware - it's media-saturated. And now it's up to us to come to the site with our own distinct purposes, to congregate as appropriate around certain things that we want or interest us and to change the world simply by being the only worthwhile place on the net to talk about anything interesting and cool...

I would like this place to help us all think in different directions and to continue to do so. Barbelith's very existence has dragged me in dozens of new intellectual directions, forced me to formulate dozens of new positions, and made me think about online community in completely new ways. We could be a really great online community, that actually generated memes that positively-polluted the world. Little things we encounter here could be the little ideas that cause the mindshift within a person, who is the person that makes the world go in a completely new direction...

I see this place as being a hub around which interested and engaged individuals can navigate themselves. A hub that we can bring thinkers into - that we can invite creative and stimulating people into. Barbelith isn't about the revolution any more and it may not even be about acquiring knowledge. Now we're getting into the assimilation of knowledge place - the piece of ground that says we now know more than we ever have before, now how can we smash it together and make something great out of it.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
23:54 / 03.05.02
Tom, I think I'm in love.
 
 
YNH
06:53 / 04.05.02
Yah, ze's a darlin'. So whatcher sayin' is there's nuthin' revolutionary in the charter from here on out? Or is that a bit of a stretch? Like it's no longer about what's a revolution or what's revolutionary, but the always and ever praxis thereof via dialogue? As fer manifestos, I reckon we oughtta come up with little bits of an "our manifesto" here and there [mostly here] and the play recombinant bricoleur. 'S just my opinion, tho.
 
 
Tom Coates
08:25 / 04.05.02
No no. I think the question is whether or not we've moved from a throwing ourselves into things half-cocked kind of revolutionary community, into a more mature place, where we accept the need for fundamental changes in the world, we're aware of some of the problems that lie in the way of change, and we accept that we're not all going to want the same kind of changes. I'm suggesting rather than trying to drag ourselves all around one revolutionary banner that we instead look at ourselves more as a community of people committed to challenging ourselves and challenging the preconceived notions of what the world is to be about. And in the process maybe each of us will be able to drag these ideas out into our everyday lives.

I could say that being on Barbelith has helped me think a lot about the world in terms of distributed networking - groups of people self-managing themselves and how they could do it. I've come to be more flexible about many issues in the world. So it's already changed my thinking, and I'm think I've tried to bring that aspect to bear in my work and my life. I'm no longer interested in heirarchy for example - I think that there's tremendous potential for value to be ascribed to people by communities, by looser networks, by huger networks of loosely connected groups. These are things that I think can be changed and barbelith is responsible for moving me in that direction.

In essence what I'm saying is that barbelith has helped me realise how I can move my day-to-day work in a direction that I think COULD change the world, even in its own tiny tiny ways...

And I still at heart think that transformative and imaginative thinking is the core of all world-transforming things. And I think Barbelith excels at that.

But I don't think that we can cling to the folly of a united purpose any more. We're not all here because we believe in the same things. We're not all here because we want to fight the same things. But I think we are all here because we think that the world should be a better place, because we're looking for spice and energy and enthusiasm and excitement in our worlds, and because we believe honestly that discussion, debate, argument and connecting with other people who share those passions is a valuable and exciting thing to do...

I'm treating barbelith very much like the secret underground headquarters of a massive distributed networks of thinkers. Their mission is simple - make the world cooler, make it more interesting, make it better, make it fairer, make people feel valued in their lives. They want to take power away from the self-interests of controlling oppressive multi-millionaires and put it in the hands of the visionaries, the imaginative, the transformative, the utopian. They bring in people to talk to them, to spread their visionary ideas. They take them on board when they can, spread them when they believe in them, let their imagination take hold of them and feed it into everything they do around them - from the smallest thing to the biggest thing. It's the Science-hero country-club, it's the collaborative batcave, it's the orbiting satellite home of the Justice League, it's 221B Baker Street, it's The Magic Shop, it's the Pentagon (but circular).

Is this a picture anyone feels a connection with? Or am I completely off track?
 
 
autopilot disengaged
09:10 / 04.05.02
soundz good.

practical suggestion: if the active threads are where the NOW of the board is - should the 'classic threads' people keep referencing be archived and - most importantly - INDEXED? that stops it being a barbemuseum and makes it more an easy-to-navigate database.

so, we'd be looking at webzine / underground / collective / archive
 
 
The Knowledge
10:28 / 04.05.02
Quote:

"Do you think people are simply spending less time, creative energy, and synapses on posting?" (Wembley)This is exactly what I was thinking. I’ve visited this board rather infrequently in the past, and because of the length of time between each visit I’ve seen the boards many different faces and experienced the boards many different vibes. I think that the current atmosphere is a sign of the times. Three years ago Barbelith, like the rest of the world, reached a heady, liberal peak. There was a lot of dreaming and ideas, a lot of theorising and creation. People had high hopes and felt free to wonder and make the effort to suggest, in good faith that they’d be treated with respect. Now, the times they are a’ changing! That extra effort; that carefree attitude, is slowly dissolving into the next phase of things. Posters here can’t, or won’t put in the extra five cents. It’s more to do with the overall feeling. The world is swinging from left to right, as is the way of things, and the liberated people of Barbelith (this being the vast majority) are starting to lose their footing; their firm grasp on the way they thought the world worked. So the resulting posts see less idea-creation. It’s a lot harder to come up with shit is what I’m saying. Before we could afford to daydream. These days are harder, and we can’t afford to daydream, not when we’re busy fighting wars and fighting the possibility of wars – the pragmatic is vogue!

So hurry up and get hands on!
 
 
the Fool
10:29 / 04.05.02
>>Their mission is simple - make the world cooler, make it more interesting, make it better, make it fairer, make people feel valued in their lives.<<

I really like this. And I think this is what Barbelith is becoming of its own accord. Like an idea factory. We have artists, theorists, musicians, magicians all blurring together. Its like an amazing information library, cafe and discussion forum all rolled into one, with a global membership.

I really didn't see the need for this thread, or other threads like it that have popped up over time. Because I think whatever is happening with this place has already started. Threads like this often devolve into a discussion about whats wrong with the place, or wasn't it better when... etc. I mean where else can I discuss the idea that reality is a belief driven mechanism, post some new art that I made, get spoliers about buffy, read accounts about what is really happening in Israel/Palestine, and read about really wacky timecube theory stuff, all before lunch?
 
 
Cherry Bomb
12:16 / 04.05.02
Actually, I think this thread, in tandem with "This Topic Is Stupid and Of No Interest to Anybody" are just what Barbelith has needed.

"Barbelith 2002" cannot be "Barbelith 2001" or "The Nexxus" (sorry if I didn't spell it right, wasn't around then!) but I think there is a LOT of room for growth and stimulating discussion/idea dispersion that remains here. One thing I have loved about Barbelith is its organic quality. And growth and change for Barbelith need not mean "Barbelith is dying," etc. etc.

Perhaps that's the real reason there's been some strife 'round these here parts lately. Growing pains?

Another thing that has been nice about this thread thusfar is the relative lack of (to paraphrase Al Gore) "snippiness." Am I alone in sensing a bit of an "us vs. them" vibe popping up here now and again? I'm all down with spirited differences of opinion, but I think sometimes productive discussions (such as this one) break down and degenerate into snippy tiffs, thus losing focus. Thoughts?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:10 / 04.05.02
Wow, Tom, you've really nailed it. Barbelith is about positive change. Exactly. Broad, yet very focused.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:11 / 04.05.02
who the fuck moderated my post to fix the link, and and added "ban the bomb" after my post?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
18:24 / 04.05.02
OK...

At the risk of getting egged:

Barbelith is a great forum to talk abotu ideas, thoughts and the like. It is becoming a message board where people talk about things on a higher level than on most boards (want to see how talking about comics can make you hate them? Go to Newsarama), but as Jack says, the spark is changing.

Or is it?

A couple of years ago, the idea of a women's magick mag was batted around, and in the end, I said that I would start a website to see if there was interest in a print mag. At the time, people said, Oh yeah, great, but in the end it became something that no one had time for. Another web idea that didn't go anywhere. And I'm sure everyone who has been here for a while who has tried to actually start something discussed can tell a story of how it just kind of faded away.

We talk ideas here. In the comics forum, people batted about the idea of how to promote Free Comic Book Day, and I myself did a lot of the things talked about. Bitchiekittie got tired of us all slagging Valentine's Day and gave a suggestion that you give out Valentines to starngers...and I did it and it was not just great fun for me, but something that help the world just a tiny bit.

We TALK great ideas.

Are we moving on them?

I love talking Buffy with the people here, and I see this as my version of "Cheers" most of the time, since I can't find people of like mind on other discussion areas...the Kirby fans on Yahoogroups are a bunch of Rush Limbaugh fans, the Vertigo fans on Mlists are a bunch of mopy psychoes who can't see past Sandman and the people on most political boards are unable to change their thoughts and talk AT each other.

But we could be more.

I like that the webzine is starting up again. I think that was one of our BEST ideas and seeing it fade away broke part of my spirit for chaning things, to be honest. I think we could use that to push ideas in a way we can't do in the forums. I think that the Magick Board should become a GREAT way to help people experiement and try new things. I think the political discussions we have a bit narrow, with too many people of all like minds...bring in a right wing friend and tell hir we won't bite, but we also will tear apart sloganeering. The comics, movies, music and book forums should be where we can not only point out decent work, but figure out ways to PROMOTE those things we feel important.

I guess I am one of those people who is tired of talking. I took inspiration from this board to change a LOT of things in my life and no longer even work in the corporate world because this board inspired me to take chances.

Now, let's see the board itself take a few chances.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
18:26 / 04.05.02
> I'm treating barbelith very much like the secret underground
>headquarters of a massive distributed networks of thinkers.

Hong Kong Cavalier Solitaire Rose reporting for duty!
 
 
Tom Coates
22:06 / 04.05.02
After all these years, my minions have arrived at last. Says I, the man who was Sunday.
 
 
Tom Coates
10:12 / 05.05.02
Solitaire Rose - I think you're right. I think it would be great for Barbelith members to unite and do something - and I do actually see that happening every so often. Perhaps the fault lies with me... If cal and I were able to build in something to help facilitate action from people - would you use it? And how?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:37 / 05.05.02
Intravenous injections of tranquilizing drugs?
 
 
Tom Coates
14:03 / 05.05.02
PS. I really would rather move this into the Policy. But obviously I'll not suggest a move if [YHN] is still keen not to... I know it'll get more coverage in here, but I can't help thinking that it'll get lost in the Conversation fairly quickly... Just pushed too far down the page...
 
 
YNH
16:49 / 05.05.02
What about waitin' until that happens, then? I never meant for this t' be anything but a discussion a possiblilities, or space to grumble a bit. But really, these are maybe the kinda decisions that need to be made: "Will it serve better in the policy," "Is it headin' that way so's not to get lost?"

I don't mind. It's just that most of my conversation threads get hijacked into other forums quicker than I'd like, so I put that little message on it this time.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
18:33 / 05.05.02
That's almost the definition of being bloody interesting, you know.
 
 
Tom Coates
07:00 / 06.05.02
Absolutely [YHN]! That's a huge compliment surely! That the threads you've been starting are not disposable, they're often agreed to be interesting, and they could quite clearly be seen to be about something integral to the board. Hopefully when we build in the thread-tracker things will be a little easier...
 
 
grant
15:55 / 06.05.02
E Randy: You know what I was thinking earlier? Recombine the Spectacle.

Let's see how well that idea goes down.


I've had that thought myself.
I wonder if there's a way to put a new "skin" on the site to do that.

Filter the threads a different way.

Maybe also the little slogan that used to appear under "barbelith" at the top of the page - that might help focus people's intentions & thoughts.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:06 / 06.05.02
Recombine the Spectacle.

Thirded. Yes.

Temporarily, even.

As an exercise in prioritizing, if nothing else.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:20 / 06.05.02
I think that combining the Spectacle might be an interesting experiment, and might yield some favorable results. Along with placing a visual emphasis on the "Revolution" aspects of the board, the combined Spectacle forum might draw attention to thread topics which may be ignored in less-trafficked forums like "Art/Design", and give the gaming discussion a logical home without having to create a special area for it. I think that a combined Spectacle may also encourage discussion that includes media currently covered by different forums - a few weeks back, I remember being very confused in how to introduce a topic of discussion that was relevant to music, film, comics, books, etc; and this could be a good way to solve other dilemmas like that.
 
 
Trijhaos
16:42 / 06.05.02
Wouldn't combining the spectacle result in some jumbled mess of threads with no rhyme or reason? What about combining Comics and Books into Literature, Art and Design and Film & Theatre into Visual, and have Music as Aural. Of course, I can see a problem right there what with Comics fitting into both Literature and Visual.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:47 / 06.05.02
Well, if people would stick to titling threads more plainly, I don't think there would be too many problems of "jumbling up".
 
 
The Knowledge
17:22 / 06.05.02
Stick comic books in with books (high/low culture collision!) and destroy art and design - and create the art, design, fashion and creation forum. I don't like the idea of combining all the parts of the spectacle into one thing. No go daddyo!
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:06 / 06.05.02
Wow... secret bass of the world changers eh?

At LAST

Perhaps a recombining of the spectical can go something like...

Read:
Books, Comics stuff you read

Heard:
music, concerts etc...

Seen:
Movies, Art, design

Tasted:
Well cooking or sex ... but actually oriented for any sort of interactive endevor... games, sports,

well this could also bleed into the Participation section as well...

also... I love the idea of graphicly depicting our Global nature...
There are "cells" all over the world, & pleanty of us are connecting with others all the time...

The WebZine is splendid... I'm currently at a bit of a loss for suggesting more than what's already out there...

The archive concept is great.

and it's only a matter of time before some more "collective" productions see light!!!
 
 
grant
18:49 / 06.05.02
Should I mention again the idea of not just titling threads clearly, but maybe even "flagging" them - use a visual tag for "comics" or "film" or "books" instead of just putting them in a separate area. That way, you could see what topics apply to what, but you're also exposed to more topics at once.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:25 / 06.05.02
Recombine the Spectacle.

Maybe I should have explained my reasoning there. When there was just The Spectacle, list threads hardly ever appeared. The first one that I remember noticing was the original 'Songs in the Here and Now', which soon got out of control (I've got to take a fair share of the blame there, sorry). After that, music list threads seemed to overwhelm the forum. I've always presumed that was why Tom created the Music forum as a seperate entity.

The thing is, there wasn't any confusion when it was one combined forum. If anything, the board was richer for the fact that people ended up reading threads that they may now ignore. I can only speak for myself, but I know for a fact that I was introduced to a huge range of material that I may otherwise have missed out on. Never a big comics reader, I tend to keep away from that forum now. Back then I'd read each and every thread just to see what they were about.

Obviously, I've got no idea if this proposal would stand a 99 Flake in hell's chance of working with the number of posters here now. I get the feeling that the only way around the vogue for list threads would be a limit on the number of topics each individual could start in any given space of time, at least until the combined forum had been given a chance to establish itself and everyone had been weaned off them. But that's a whole other argument.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:10 / 06.05.02
Well, if people would stick to titling threads more plainly, I don't think there would be too many problems of "jumbling up".

A problem that could easily be solved by giving the moderators the power to re-title threads. Tom?
Arthur Sudnam, II
 
 
Captain Zoom
22:40 / 06.05.02
I think we've got it already, don't we? I have a moderate topic option in the Creation. Titles can be changed that way, can't they? I've not done it yet, so I don't really know.

Zoom.
 
  

Page: 1(2)3

 
  
Add Your Reply