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Terrifying Snapshot

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
08:46 / 09.04.02
More or less unforgivable than actually committing the attack?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
08:55 / 09.04.02
ah yes, i lost perspective there. the attack, of course, is far, far more unforgivable. BUT i do question journalists' methods - a classic example were the photographs taken at the hillsborough football ground disaster, of the crowd crushed against the chain link fence. some were already dead, some were dying, but i'm sure some could've been pulled out.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
11:54 / 09.04.02
Are you saying that it should be a social requirement that a person risk injury because they might be able to help someone else?

As I said earlier, the photo is taken from above, the only way to try and assist would be to jump into the crowd and possibly further injure the victim.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
12:05 / 09.04.02
i've just looked at the article again and can't find any comment from the photographer. personally, if i see someone in trouble in any way, i either help them or, if i can't then i'll move away and call the police. it's a moral requirement, for me. when i was very ill a couple of weeks back, and nearly passed out on a bus, i would've appreciated someone coming to my aid or telling the driver. if someone had started taking photographs of me for a news story, i would've [when i felt like i might actually be able to walk/talk] been incredibly pissed off. i'm interested in how a person who shoots a picture like the one here, or other similar ones, feels about it. what did the photographer do after he took the picture? did he rush off to call the police? get some help for her? i'd like to know more. and perhaps i should know more before i judge.
 
 
Orange Julius is New
15:22 / 09.04.02
Normally, I'm a lurker, not a poster. But I finally folded and clicked on the link to see the photo.

Ok, my problem with this photo is two-fold.

1. The photographer's first instinct was to take a picture instead of do something to help this woman. That is the unspoken message that this photo communicates to the observer. While Urban may claim that "it happened too quickly" for him to do anything, the fact is that it wasn't over before he caught it on film. AFTER he took the picture, the "sea of people" cleared and there was nothing he could do. Too bad he wasted his time. Apparently, photographing a human rights violation is more important than stopping it OR standing up against it to try to stop it.

I think this point is especially relevant because he (Urban) is a white male and this award was being presented in a patriarchal and racist society. Had the NPPA been chaired by a group of feminists, there is no doubt that a photo like this would not have won because, on the chance that it could have portrayed this situation in a positive or exploitative light, it would have been seen as a prime opportunity for mysogynistic and racist fodder. Instead, any chance that this photo/award might not have the intended effect ("to bring awareness to the event") was not taken seriously and was underplayed--as we would expect from a WASP environment. Which brings me to my second point:

2. I think photography like this, especially when taken out of context and not specifically used in a feminist or anti-mysogynistic forum, is dangerous. Taken IN the context of our present society, pop culture has weaned its children on action-adventure movies and practically R-rated television. We have trained most youth to disassociate themselves from violent or overtly racist/sexist/classist imagery by desensitizing them with an outrageous amount of programming and advertising that downplays the very real consequences of behavior like that is shown in this photo. Its about time we started to assume that most youth that view a photo like this are not going to start a post-feminist discussion with their friends.

This photo was never printed in the Post-Intelligencer with a correlated story, and the NPPA statement from the ethics chair, Maria Mann blithely glosses over the specific ethical reason why they chose this photo or even why "intense" discussions were necessary. The statement by Clyde Mueller mentions only ONCE what the result of those discussions was, "The decision to publish this powerful and thought provoking image is based on the basis to bring awareness to the event and to protect the identity of the female victim." But what KIND of awareness were they trying to bring? It seems like they are SO sensitive to the patriarchal nature of our society that they don't dare say that they thought this photo might be useful in trying to actualize sexual assault and human rights violations amoung US citizens--but we're left to make the assumption that their message is to encourage people to stop these kinds of violations from happening even though the photographer himself seems to be exempt from this moral order. And, what good does it do, exactly, to qualify the nature of this photo without really discussing the subject at hand? The editor's note more effectively communicates the subject matter than the NPPA ever does.

I think this photo, ultimately, shows a lack of personal integrity on the part of the photojournalist AND a lack of integrity on the part of the people giving the award. Ultimately, I have to agree with shortfatdyke: "sitting back and taking notes instead of stopping the incident is unforgivable in my book". And so is awarding people who do so. Its one small step for mysogyny and racism and one giant step for patriarch-kind.
 
 
gozer the destructor
15:41 / 09.04.02
Welcome to Barbelith, but...

Its about time we started to assume that most youth that view a photo like this are not going to start a post-feminist discussion with their friends.

It's a very patronising a self-assuming viewponit that dictates that 'certain elements in society' know best and others need to be protected from themselves.

I find this a very dangerous attitude to take, I just get the feeling that you mean young males rather than 'youths', and so what are you going to do? censor every image to remove all attributes of sexuality or violence? or both? surely this would be more dangerous and dishonest to the education of 'youths' in society to never realise that these things do go on and that discussion about these actions can only take place when people know what's going on.
 
 
Orange Julius is New
16:24 / 09.04.02
I never advocated protection, I advocated clear communication. If the NPPA is going to claim to have partaken in an intense discussion about the nature of the events in the photograph, they could at least clue the observers in with more than one sentence as to what the discussion concluded.

My assumption was not that young males are in need of coddling, but rather that, in our present society, which advocates desensitization, we need to work harder to sensitize people and not simply assume that, when looking at, for example, a photo of a sexual assault, that individuals within this society are going to take the moral high road and be sensitive to the sexist and racist implications of the context in which the photo was taken and in which it was published.
 
 
gozer the destructor
16:39 / 09.04.02
So when presenting an image and thinking about the audience that will see that image we should aim low with expectations as regards a reaction?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
17:00 / 09.04.02
That would make a tremendous amount of art redundant, or is that somehow different.
 
 
Orange Julius is New
17:12 / 09.04.02
If this photo won because it was art, then why issue an ethics statement with it in the first place?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
17:19 / 09.04.02
Thus why I was asking if you consider art different to journalism, thus allowing me to argue future points more accurately.
 
 
Orange Julius is New
17:48 / 09.04.02
Is this particular photo "art"? I don't feel qualified to answer that question. "What is art" is a whole other thread. My point was that the NPPA felt the need to issue an ethics statement, and personally I think the statement should have been more articulate.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
18:05 / 09.04.02
Maybe the NPPA issued a statement because they received questions as to why a picture of such a sensitive nature had been given an award. There seems to be no indication of order of event in the listed articles, unless I missed something.

I'm also not convinced by your sexist, racist, patriarchal argument. If they are sexist and patriarchal then why would they shoose to consult a sexual abuse counsellor prior to publication of the image. Also to assume racism and sexism because the photographer is a white male. After all the judging panel is not exclusively male (5 male, 3 female which is different from the ratio demonstrated within the profession) nor is it exclusively white.
 
 
The Monkey
02:27 / 10.04.02
Orange Julius - I fail to see how most of what you say transcends mere projection of a few rudimentary subaltern memes onto a context. Patriarchy, white-male dominated, unconsciously racist are all rhetorical straw men barring grounding in solid analytical observation of a subject, justifying the claims. Sine you have entirely imaged the subject of your accusations, he [gender intentional] is entirely guilty of the charges.

What you have characterized as some amorphous societal malady bleeding into microcontext is more likely a matter of strict legal self-preservation in light of possible litigation regarding the photo subject(s)' right to privacy. Simultaneously they cannot entirely dismiss the photo carte blanche without losing face within the art-press community (this is the post-Mapplethorpe age) and potentially raising the ire - and lawyers - of the photographer who proffered it. The wishy-washy ethics statement acts as an appeasement of both parties, while minimizing damage control and loss of face upon all fronts [that impact their niche within the larger press and art communities].
 
 
gozer the destructor
08:10 / 10.04.02
I don't want to come across like timothy dim but, could you dumb that down a shade?
 
 
gozer the destructor
11:58 / 11.04.02
I don't know what the rest of you thought about this, it's on the 'latest from the middle east' thread that moom started, it reminded me of some of the comments raised about the cowardice of the photographer, regarding the situation...I think it makes an interesting juxtoposition...

broke curfew yesterday to get heather clean clothes, and ended up trapped at
the hotel whilst the idf shot at journalists to keep them out of the street
whilst they looted shops. then we snuck round a back way, with about 15
pitiful journos following us from a distance of about 20 yards, cameras
trained, obviously hoping they'd get some good pictures of international
chicks with no flak jackets (unlike them) getting blasted. as usual, they
were all ludicrously kitted up and utterly cowardly; there are a couple of
really cool press out here,. like bob fisk and khaled from bethlehem tv and
the crew from al-jazeera, who are very brave and capable. but the rest are
lily-livered machistas who pose with their bulletproof jackets and big
cameras and seem to spend most of their time cowering round corners whilst
palestinians look bemused.



what do you reckon? Further debate on the morality of documentation?
 
 
grant
15:03 / 11.04.02
If it wasn't for the cowards, would be be able to see what's going on?

It's really easy to break a camera (or a cameraman) in a crowd.
 
 
Not Here Still
17:00 / 11.04.02
Was this man a Coward?

And as Grant says, how do you find out what is going on if no-one records it?

Think about it this way (and this, too, is a whole bunch of conjectures):

Let's say the photographer did put his camera down, run down into the crowd (we are supposing he is somewhere where he can do this, don't forget - what if he's in a crane or on a raised platform?) and tried to help the woman. That appears to me to move the weighting of people in this from 25 against 1 to 25 against 2.

Really improves the odds, doesn't it? What do you think would happen, exactly?

But if that photographer does what he is trained to do, and records the moment, then there is a chance that record can be used in a court of law to secure a conviction, and those men involved may be brought to justice.

Just a thought.

Lyra: I think I'd be sickened by this picture no matter what colour the people involved were. (and for teh record, the guy I noticed primarily was the white guy in the grey top who appears to be holding the woman up.*)

*Not that this matters - you can't tell who I'm talking about, because they appear to have placed a banner over the heads of those at the top of the photo)
 
 
Mystery Gypt
21:06 / 11.04.02
yeah, again, from urban's description, it sounds like the second after he snapped the photo, the situation ended. because he shot the picture, it's possible the perpetrators will be brought to justice. it's possible people will be forced to think about mob violence and its attitude towards women and sexuality. if he had tried to help, he would have failed (again from his description of the scene plus ourunderstanding of crowd situation expressed above) and had the woman wanted justice, she would have been without any means to get it. and none of us would have ever known it happened.

mike urban is the only name associated with the entire event that we have. if we knew all the names of the attackers, we could point much better fingers at them, but without that information, we seem to be taking out our helpless frustration on the one person for which we have a nameable identity.
 
  

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