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Underground > Switchboard >

Plane Hits World Trade Center Part FOUR

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The Return Of Rothkoid

11:53 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
no one, but no one, saw this coming.Last night on TV - I think it was someone from Flight International - there was an interview with an expert on air safety. He pointed out that under the Clinton administration, there was an inquiry into air security, and the security of airlines as a whole was found wanting. The report's recommendations were put into effect for international flights, but apparently, airlines complained that such measures instituted on a local level would slow down the industry too much. So they were shelved. The problem was identified; it seems that it wasn't deemed efficient or important enough to be instituted locally.

12:01 / 12.09.01

"Found wanting" sounds linke a fairly severe understatement of the facts. The BBC had an interview with a guy who worked for a US airline for four years - apparently, "passengers are usually only asked one question - 'Is this your bag?'"

The smoke from the World Financial Center was caused by a "defective generator," according to an FBI guy at the mayor's current news conference.

People in custody in New Jersey?

autopilot disengaged

12:10 / 12.09.01

quote:MIAMI (Reuters) - U.S. agents served warrants on homes and searched businesses in south Florida, and issued alerts for two cars in connection with the attacks on New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites), local media reported on Wednesday.

full story: http://www.msnbc.com/news/627398.asp?0cb=-a1f22998

autopilot disengaged

12:13 / 12.09.01

ooops. disregard that last link - this is the one:

florida suspects

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: autopilot disengaged ]

12:18 / 12.09.01

anyone know what's going on with the World Financial Centre? It was on fire not long ago, any news reports on this?

12:24 / 12.09.01

quote:Both PayPal and Amazon now have donation accounts that will go direct to the National Disaster Relief Fund of the American Red Cross. Here's the links:

Paypal: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/relief-outside

Amazon: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/102-8254387-7372126

12:27 / 12.09.01

reports say that the planes were hijacked with knives.

in my own experience of internal flights in america, i have to say that most airlines/airports don't have very rigid security checks because they really slow down the boarding process. and now some airlines have even automated that so that you can answer the questions on a computer! it was asking for trouble.

12:28 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by minor 9th:
anyone know what's going on with the World Financial Centre? It was on fire not long ago, any news reports on this?

The smoke from the World Financial Center was caused by a "defective generator," according to an FBI guy at the mayor's current news conference.

12:34 / 12.09.01

article about the WTC "weakspots"

12:39 / 12.09.01

the la times story (kooky's link) contains some spectacularly bad journalism, accusing the terrorists of possessing 'evil luck' or 'some knowledge of physics'. The story even credits the terrorists as being 'evil geniuses'.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: sleazenation ]

12:39 / 12.09.01

From Autopilot's Florida link:

Workers at the restaurant were shown pictures of two men believed involved in the hijackings, the station said.
``They said, 'Well we have pictures of people and we want to know if you can identify any of them,''' a restaurant worker told the station. ``And I said 'Well, I can identify one of the guys,' and I said 'They were in here on Friday.'''

The station said workers described the man as rude and said he refused to pay his bill, at one point saying ``of course I can afford to pay, I'm a pilot.''

Authorities had issued statewide alerts for two cars, a 1989 two-door red Pontiac Grand Prix with license number D79DDV and a 2001 tan four-door Oldsmobile, the station said.

and

In addition, agents in Daytona Beach, Florida, towed a car ''somehow believed to be tied into all of this,'' WSVN reported. The whereabouts of the car was called in by a passerby who said it caught his attention because a picture of bin Laden was prominently displayed on its side.

is this Hubris? or Stupidity?

Someone should have trained ME as a master assasin. At least I know how to stay cool and keep my causes to myself.

autopilot disengaged

12:46 / 12.09.01

quote:WASHINGTON (AP) - Starting before dawn Wednesday, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) telephoned world leaders in search of support for a coordinated response to the ``assault against the civilized world'' waged by terrorists at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites).

...Powell said it was imperative that all countries that believe in democracy take action.

full story

autopilot disengaged

12:49 / 12.09.01

quote:Some poll results after Tuesday's terror attacks. The CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll interviewed 619 adults. The ABC-Washington Post poll interviewed 608 adults. Each had an error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points. The CBS News poll interviewed 402 adults and had an error margin of plus or minus 5 percentage points:

CNN-USA TODAY-GALLUP
-More than half, 55 percent, said they thought Tuesday's attacks represent the beginning of a sustained terrorist campaign against the United States that will continue for several weeks. Three in 10 disagreed.
-Almost nine of 10 said they considered the attacks an ``act of war.''
-Nine in 10 said the attacks were the most tragic event of their lifetime.
-People were about evenly divided whether it made them less willing to fly on airplanes.

ABC-WASHINGTON POST
-People were about evenly split on whether the United States could reasonably have done more to prevent the attacks.
-Nine in 10 said they had at least some confidence that the United States would find and punish those responsible, with more than half ``very confident.''
-About nine in 10 support military action against groups or nations responsible for the attacks, even if it means getting in a war.
-Nine in 10 said they prayed for the victims of the attacks and almost everyone, 99 percent, said they watched or listened to broadcast news reports.

CBS NEWS
-Six in 10 said the attacks were ``another Pearl Harbor'' and almost that many thought they would result in the United States going to war.
-Two thirds said the United States should retaliate even if innocent people are killed. Majorities of men and women favored that step, though men were more likely to favor it.
- Almost six in 10 said U.S. intelligence should have known about the attacks in advance and thought the attacks could have been prevented by tighter airport security.

have the people spoken?

The Return Of Rothkoid

12:50 / 12.09.01

Another page on the building collapse, as posited by the Civil Engineering dept. of USyd. Big rider that is theory, but seems straight down the line.

I scoped that from dal.net's update page that seems to be pretty good.

12:52 / 12.09.01

never said it was a well-written piece, sleaze. maybe i should've posted it in randy's thread about american media reaction, though.

13:14 / 12.09.01

(I think this is my last post for a while. I'm going to go home, and I've no online access there.)

One of the NYC news channels has an e-mail address for relatives of those still missing, to send a photo of the missing person, their name & company, and a contact name and phone # so they can reach you if/when they hear about the person.

fox5news@yahoo.com

Wyrd, don't know if you've tried this yet, but it's worth a shot. I really hope you hear from your sister. Keep us posted, please.

Thanks Barbelith.

01

13:54 / 12.09.01

They're not going to drop a nuclear bomb. That would only serve to destabalize their position more. It would cause other the nations, (who are already obviously sympathetic) to retract those sympathies and condemn the US. It's definitely more bark than bite.

14:27 / 12.09.01

...it seems that the US is keeping the options open when dealing with this. Seems like saying yes and no right now to certain measures is the last thing one would want to do if it comes down to facilitating them.

But I am a little worried about people being to far taken in by the semiotics at play. This is not another Pearl harbor for as many reasons as one could point to similarities. But I think people have this need to put an image, name, or face to things to cope. Problem is...it skews perception.

14:36 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
Just on Sky News - apparently EIGHT planes were hijacked simultaneously and FOUR were shot down. There's no online confirmation on that, so treat it with suspicion...

Why has noone whose relatives/friends/colleagues were one one of the missing hijacked planes gone public? Surely someone would come forward if someone they knew was on a plane yesterday morning and has not checked in by now or landed anywhere...or someone from one of the airlines or airports.

14:53 / 12.09.01

Well it's increasingly seeming that that was an unsubtantiated piece of crap which we should ignore.

Howvever, the FBI have just had Carnivore installed in ISPs all over America. Apparently they were in many of these places yesterday afternoon. I understand their urgency, but it seems like a convenient cover for getting infringements of civil liberties pumped through asap.

15:26 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by kooky has go-go power:
reports say that the planes were hijacked with knives.

in my own experience of internal flights in america, i have to say that most airlines/airports don't have very rigid security checks because they really slow down the boarding process. and now some airlines have even automated that so that you can answer the questions on a computer! it was asking for trouble.

Yes, and that's because busy Americans have demanded that the boarding process be speeded up so they can get where they're going. In America, almost EVERYTHING is a business decision. Business travelers pay the big bucks for their seats, subsidising everyone else...and if they strong-arm the airlines into eliminating those pesky security checks, this is what happens.

15:29 / 12.09.01

PS Have you ever seen the people who do security checks? No offence intended but they aren't exactly rocket scientists. They subscribe to the 'is that a gun in your pocket' method of security checking.

15:30 / 12.09.01

It's not that simple, viola. Security measures in any public venue are always balanced against comfort and efficiency. American transit policy to date was to try to make flying as quick and unintrusive as possible. People were quite happy with that until now.

15:38 / 12.09.01

It's not just "business" interests... people on this very board are chafing at the thought of "draconian measures" to come, which lock-tight airport security would certainly qualify as. It's just as easy to picture a free-loving hippie complaining as he's being patted down, "hey ma-an, you're violating my ri-ights" as a tight-lipped time-conscious man in a grey flannel suit. And that's not an attack on hippies. People have to see that we're all in this together, this same fucking boat.

The Knowledge +1

15:42 / 12.09.01

So does anyone know anything else about all the kidnap negotiators being in a conference yesterday?

What about the extra planes? Can we confirm that the media aren't blacking out worried relatives complaints?

autopilot disengaged

16:28 / 12.09.01

the luckiest unluckiest man in NY

We're The Great Old Ones Now

17:06 / 12.09.01

G7 countries have said they will not allow the economy to be shattered by this attack. Fed has apparently been supporting the dollar all day to discourage dumping. Powers to intervene hard with markets?

The Packard Goose

17:09 / 12.09.01

Colin Powell just confirmed a statement from the White House spokesperson indicating that the plane that hit the Pentagon is now believed to have been targeting the White House.
Powell also confirmed statement from WH that Air Force One was targeted.
Nothing substantial yet as to how this is known.

17:20 / 12.09.01

so, they raided a hotel in boston and arrested one suspect a coupla hours ago....

17:22 / 12.09.01

Boston developments here:
http://www.barbelith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000030

The Return Of Rothkoid

17:26 / 12.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Ray Fawkes:
American transit policy to date was to try to make flying as quick and unintrusive as possible. People were quite happy with that until now.It's also worth remembering that the knives used were box-cutters, I believe. It's apparently standard procedure to let knives under 5cm in length on board, as they're not deemed worrisome enough to bother about. Craft knives, not whacking great machetes. While the security processes were lax, and had been noted previously, I think they were abiding by them when they checked these guys in, sad to say.

09:46 / 13.09.01

I don't know if this is still the "breaking news thread," but from the Los Angeles Times,

quote:Just before United Airlines Flight 93 crashed [in rural Pennsylvania], a passenger telephoned his wife, told her the plane had been hijacked and said he and some others were going to "do something about it."

full story

09:46 / 13.09.01

http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=9575&group=webcast
http://web.nps.navy.mil/~library/tgp/jra.htm

09:46 / 13.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:

I understand their urgency, but it seems like a convenient cover for getting infringements of civil liberties pumped through asap.

This is a big fear of mine...

09:42 / 14.09.01

Wasn't quite sure where else to post...

Back in Brooklyn, finally got some sleep. There have been over 90 bomb scares all over NYC; the one that got me running was a Port Authority scare, although at the time we didn't know exactly where, we just got phone calls from friends telling us that evacuations in midtown were underway and to beat the rush.

The dust is spreading. Mom lives right above the 14 Street border, and she says the dust is thick and the smell of chemicals permeate everything. Even here in the Slope it's noticeably more difficult to breathe (puts a pall on the pranayama, let me tell you

)

I won't be posting too often because my internet access is quite limited (cheers to the landlady for letting me use her dial-up to check e-mail). Don't think I'll be heading back to Manhattan until Monday, especially in the Staten Island clampdown holds and my boss can't leave (he'd be nuts to leave the house, let alone the borough). Take care, and thanks for being here.

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