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Plane Hits World Trade Center Part FOUR

 
  

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Tom Coates
21:05 / 11.09.01
Just on Sky News - apparently EIGHT planes were hijacked simultaneously and FOUR were shot down. There's no online confirmation on that, so treat it with suspicion...
 
 
Sax
21:07 / 11.09.01
Nothing on Press Association or other news sources yet but it seems to be kosher - from the US govt
 
 
Sax
21:08 / 11.09.01
That must be what happened to the one that was "10 minutes from Washington" which no-one spoke about again - news blackout.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
21:18 / 11.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
Just on Sky News - apparently EIGHT planes were hijacked simultaneously and FOUR were shot down. There's no online confirmation on that, so treat it with suspicion...


Everyone here has been very frantic about that...there has been NO MENTION WHATSOEVER about the remaining planes, or any confirmation or denial that perhaps they had overestimated.

My best guess (actually, my dad's...) is that they have been captured/destroyed by the US government and they aren't ready to comment on it yet, and are trying to get it out of people's minds the best they can. On the bright side, I am certain that there is no way any of those planes are still on the loose -- there's no way we couldn't have found them, and they couldn't have gone too far away.
 
 
.
21:25 / 11.09.01
there was definitely a news blackout about the fifth and plus plane(s). i was watching the news in the day, and by the evening i thought i had probably imagined the whole fifth plane thing. combined with the fact that the net seemed to be ahead of the tv, the news censorship has almost been as scary as the event itself.
 
 
Ganesh
21:26 / 11.09.01
There's definitely an (understandable) news emphasis on New York and Washington, with almost no direct coverage of the Pittsburgh crash. Does anyone have a link to stuff on the other (five?) planes?
 
 
autopilot disengaged
21:27 / 11.09.01
news from the investigation:

quote:NEW YORK (Reuters) - Authorities in Massachusetts have identified five Arab men as suspects in Tuesday's attack on New York City and have seized a rental car containing Arabic-language flight training manuals at Logan International Airport, a source told the Boston Herald newspaper.

Two of the men were brothers whose passports were traced to the United Arab Emirates, the unidentified source told the Herald. One of the men was a trained pilot, the paper reported on its Web site on Wednesday.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
21:27 / 11.09.01
I'd also like to mention that the news channels in NYC almost entirely ignored the events happening in DC, only mentioning them as brief asides during saturation coverage on the WTC... I've only seen a few images on tv from DC, they've really glossed over what has happened there, I'm sure they have their reasons...
 
 
Sax
21:28 / 11.09.01
Censorship kind of understandable in the early days. If you were the US government and you'd just sanctioned the shooting down of a civilian domestic flight full of passengers, you'd sort of want to check things out a bit before releasing the information. No good waving your hands saying "we've got one!" and then finding out it wasn't hijacked.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
21:30 / 11.09.01
I think I'm watching the same Sky News via the website... they're recapping the WTC without planes beyond the standard four being mentioned.

You ARE seeing a Prof. Michael Clarke right now?

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: doubting thomas ]
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
21:33 / 11.09.01
fuck this shit.
conspiracy at its beginning, how do they think they can hide so many BIG things ?
i mean, if they stopped the extra planes that nobody look to care (except us !), they will have to tell it really soon, cause waiting isn't good at all !
 
 
autopilot disengaged
21:36 / 11.09.01
...and it looks like Israel is going to take full advantage of this window of opportunity:

quote:JERUSALEM (AP) - Israeli troops backed by tanks and helicopters raided a West Bank town and two nearby villages early Wednesday, as Israel said it was intensifying its hunt for Palestinian terror suspects. Seven Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire, including three Islamic militants and an 11-year-old girl.

Palestinian officials accused Israel of exploiting the world's horror over the terror attacks in the United States to escalate strikes against Palestinian areas.

Israel dismissed the allegations, saying it was defending itself against Palestinian terror. Referring to the attacks in the United States, Defense Ministry spokesman Yarden Vatikay said: ``The world will not be as patient now as it was before to the terror attacks conducted and supported by the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites).''

He added: ``We will be very intense in our operations against terrorism.''
 
 
Perfect Tommy
21:39 / 11.09.01
(Also, ignorant American thanks you for pointing to Sky News... seeing something other than American network TV is somehow helpful.)
 
 
Ierne
21:43 / 11.09.01
I only heard that one of those planes was from a Caribbean airline and got shot down in Canadian Airspace...my mom heard that yesterday afternoon on one of the NYC Cable channels.

It's 7:30 AM in NYC, I just "woke up" (no sleep, just staring at the ceiling). I'll check to see if anything else is going on. Last night I heard that Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx will be resuming life "as normal" (transportation-wise) but lower Manhattan is closed and trains will only be running out of Manhattan, not into it.

Also heard that a van was caught trying to get into Mnahattan over the George Washington Bridge (NJ to NY) with enough explosives to blow up the bridge. First reports that two men were arrested...then it was a truck that was abandoned with a few explosives...then about midnight or so there were denials of this "rumor". Not sure what's developed since then.
 
 
pacha perplexa
21:44 / 11.09.01
Fuckers!!!! They attack Palestin like it was justifiable!!!
I'm DISGUSTED

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: pacha mama ]
 
 
Logos
21:44 / 11.09.01
From rumor control:

I'm pretty sure that the "extra" planes you're talking about were the group of planes that were a) out of contact or b) off course. These were a subset of the fifty planes still in the air after the countrywide grounding order. All but the four that crashed seem to have been accounted for, including the plane destined for Cleveland, which had a bomb threat, rather than hijackers. No one on this plane was hurt, to my knowledge.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
21:53 / 11.09.01
That does make a degree of sense... I keep forgetting that the two WTC crashes and the Pentagon crash all occurred in an hour, hour and a half, because that seems absurd still. Unaccounted planes in that time frame make sense to me.
 
 
RiffRaff
10:09 / 12.09.01
roommate of mine commented last night that one of Nostradamus's prophecies involved an "attack from the air" on "the Great City", incited by a man in a blue turban. The prediction was for 1999, but three years isn't much...
 
 
Richard Morgan
10:10 / 12.09.01
Latest news from the radio is that the hijackers used craft-style knives to stab stewardesses, in order to draw the pilots from the cockpits and take control of the planes. Still having trouble taking this all in.
 
 
Saveloy
10:18 / 12.09.01
News from colleague: the Civil Aviation Authority have banned all PARASCENDING until further notice. I'm presuming that affects all of mainland Britain.
 
 
Sax
10:20 / 12.09.01
Phew. I was worried about some bloke hanging from a parachute being pulled along by a motorboat crashing into the side of a building, as well.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
10:36 / 12.09.01
from MSNBC:

quote:THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life — mostly in New York City’s World Trade Center, but also near Pittsburgh and Washington — ensured that “no option has been taken off the table,” senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: “I said no option is out of the question. That’s precisely what I mean.”


i'm sure this is bark rather than bite, but...fuck...
 
 
Perfect Tommy
10:41 / 12.09.01
I wish I could type faster for an honest quote... The analyst just on Sky News compared the energy of the planes, given their speed and amount of fuel, to a small nuclear device, then suggested that the US would take that into consideration for scale of retaliation... like, "weapons of mass destruction".

To reemphasize: that was "some guy" on Sky News, not anyone governmental.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: doubting thomas ]

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: doubting thomas ]
 
 
autopilot disengaged
10:46 / 12.09.01
MSNBC again:

quote: Secretary of State Colin Powell described the situation as a “war against civilization.”...says United States will retaliate ‘in the not too distant future’

i'll be under the table, if anyone needs me...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:50 / 12.09.01
quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
from MSNBC:



i'm sure this is bark rather than bite, but...fuck...


Christ on a fucking spoon, I hope you're right. I fear, however, the truth may be otherwise...
Oh bugger.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
10:51 / 12.09.01
The World Financial Center, nearby, is on fire now.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
10:56 / 12.09.01
sorry if i'm hogging the thread, but this MSNBC site is a goldmine:

quote:The FBI set up a Web site where people could report any tips or other information: www.ifccfbi.gov. Intelligence officials told NBC News they were especially eager to recover any video tourists may have been shooting before and during the attacks.


and:

quote:A senior U.S. official told NBC News’ Robert Windrem late Tuesday that information developed left officials “90 percent certain” that bin Laden’s organization was responsible.

“This is not just surmise,” the official said. “This is new information.”


...the Taleban have apparently offered to hand bin Laden over as long as they see some real proof.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:57 / 12.09.01
Sorry, me again... don't know if any of you care, but they've just got Gore Vidal on BBC Radio 4 discussing this... I obviously can't type fast enough to keep up with the man, but this must turn up online somewhere... I just caught the line "we select the enemy in advance..." and says the danger in choosing an enemy is that "we have a wealth of enemies... all selected by us". "Sooner or later they('d) take out Washington... how the hell do I know who They are?" Sorry, I know this makes little sense... I'm trying to catch the good bits. Radio 4 online (unsure of address) must have this somewhere. When Vidal speaks, you may think he speaks shit, but you HAVE to stop and listen.
 
 
sleazenation
11:01 / 12.09.01
this just in US to re-open airspace from 1600 gmt.
(newsflash on the bbc website no detailed news yet)

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: sleazenation ]
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:27 / 12.09.01
Rumours that the pilot of the Pittsburgh plane brought it down himself on hearing/realising the hijackers' intentions. Anyone else heard this?
 
 
Persephone
11:29 / 12.09.01
quote:Originally posted by E. Randy Dupre:
Rumours that the pilot of the Pittsburgh plane brought it down himself on hearing/realising the hijackers' intentions. Anyone else heard this?


Yes. Heard that three passengers overpowered the hijackers but were unable to save the plane. It was in a link in one of the other threads.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Persephone ]
 
 
Saveloy
11:30 / 12.09.01
A bit on the BBC news this morning about mobile phone calls from people aboard the hijacked planes. One was apparently from a passenger on the Pittsburgh one saying that "some of us are going to try and do something about it." Anyone's guess if that's true or not.
 
 
Ierne
11:30 / 12.09.01
was looking for more info on Autopilot Disengaged's post about the guys arrested in Boston and found this.

"Abdul Basir Hotak, who represents Afghanistan's U.N.-recognized government in Beijing, named the three elements as exiled Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, Pakistan's military intelligence and the Taliban, who are sheltering bin Laden.
'We are surprised very much that until now the international community do not understand what is the original face of the international terrorism,' Hotak told Reuters.
'They are talking only about Osama bin Laden,' said Hotak, in reference to speculation about who might be responsible for Tuesday's suicide attacks with hijacked airliners on New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington. 'Without cooperation and without coordination from other sides it is impossible for him to do anything,' he said, adding:
'We believe that this is a triangle between Osama bin Laden, ISI, which is the intelligence section of the Pakistani army, and the Taliban.'
Hotak called on the international community to adopt a new strategy directed at 'the triangle, not Osama bin Laden,' to root out terror."
and:

"Hotak accused the same alleged 'triangle' of masterminding the assassination attempt on Masood. The guerrilla commander -- reported killed in the blast by several news sources -- was in 'stable' condition and recovering in a hospital, according to Hotak.

He said the Arab suicide bombers, who posed as journalists, had traveled from London with one-year Pakistani visas."
 
 
Ganesh
11:32 / 12.09.01
Three 'planes being tracked in Canadian airspace?! 'Probably innocent'.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
11:35 / 12.09.01
MSNBC, 'Planes as Weapons':

quote:There is one unconfirmed report of a controller in New Hampshire, who overheard the first plane being hijacked, as pilots left their microphone on in the cockpit. The controller overheard a hijacker saying to a pilot, in English, “Don’t do anything foolish.”

Shortly after, the controller says the plane’s transponder, a locator device in the cockpit, was turned off, leaving controllers only a blip to watch — with no idea of the blip’s altitude.

There are several other reports of passengers placing chilling cell phone calls to relatives, saying their flights had been hijacked. And there is one unconfirmed report that an American Airlines flight attendant told her company by cell phone that the pilots on her plane had been killed. If the report is true, it came from the last of the planes to go down, the one in Pennsylvania.


consensus seems to be that the planes were hijacked at knifepoint - hostesses stabbed to lure out pilots etc - and the pilots themselves killed only in the final few minutes before striking the target.

there are patchy lists of confirmed passengers on the various planes - including one of the co-creators of Frasier, baseball talent scouts, firefighters and their chaplain...

authorities had realised security on airlines wasn't all it should be - in tests, they managed to smuggle weapons on board in 2 out of 3 attempts. but there hadn't been a commercial hijacking over the states since '91, so it didn't seem so urgent.

no one, but no one, saw this coming.
 
  

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