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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Buffy season6 uk spoilers

  
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
uncle retrospective
20:07 / 23.03.02
Ok, so were into Buffy S6 far enough to be able to make some sort judgment on it.
So anyone else think that this season, is, well, I hate to say this...

Shit.
There I said it.
For the first time I don't care what happens to any of them. Why is Xander marrying that idiot? Buffy shagging Spike? I don't care. Yes. I do. I think it's caving in to the audience. If spike dosen't loose the chip and go on a killing spree soon I'm going to be really pissed. No just bored actually.

Willow's dru sorry magick problem with Amy and the friend dragging her down. Don't care handedly so badly.

Am I the only one?
At least this season of angel isn't appaling.

rant over.
 
 
Seth
04:26 / 24.03.02
quote:Originally posted by uncle retrospective:
Am I the only one?
At least this season of angel isn't appaling.


No. I'm with you there.

From the reports I get from my sister (stateside), it doesn't get any better for the next few episodes, either (I think she's about six ahead). She's stopped watching (if you knew how much Buffy she used to watch, that's a very alarming prospect).
 
 
The Natural Way
06:50 / 25.03.02
I'm not sure, but...

Is Retrospective at home to Mr. Grumpy and Disappointed all the time?
 
 
uncle retrospective
17:32 / 27.03.02

I'm not sure, but...

Is Retrospective at home to Mr. Grumpy and Disappointed all the time?

I may be getting a bad image round here. I post from work which makes me a bit of a grumpyguss, but when the only show I really liked on TV is years slides down the toilet (of course in my humble opionion) I just feel a little miffed.

There are things that make me want to dance amoung the flowers.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
15:37 / 31.03.02
Gonna get with the reiteration.

For me this is one of if not the best series of B so far: It challenges the series' norms; it isn't afraid to go in directions that were previously verbatim; it has some of the best acting, script, direction and drama that the series has ever seen, not to mention character growth and thematic consistency.
So it has been heavy handed at times - take note: we're talking about Buffy here - no change kiddies. Yeah it's a bit dour: ever thought why that might be? Becoming as fully fledged adult - painful anyone? (again with the thematic consistency). Granted the action ain't as thick and fast, but so what, as far as I'm concerned 6 compensates in other ways.

My main problem with a lot of the posts on this thread is that they seem to miss the fact that this series is quintessential Buffy - and more. It's weaknesses are weaknesses of old, it's strengths, however, are new.

It seems to me that the predominant criticisms of 6 are to do with a difference of aesthetic, an argument that while subjectively valid only holds so much water on a social level.
It's worth noting that 6 has the highest ratings of any Buffy series ever.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
15:39 / 31.03.02
Naysayers, bring it on!
 
 
Seth
20:02 / 31.03.02
All my naysaying has been done in the Angel thread. It's not worth reprinting here, but it has much to do with what I perceive as a lack of quality rather than any change in direction. God: I'm actually praying it will change direction, as that might help things out a bit.

A series about a bunch of kids becoming adults won't make sense until they take some responsibility and go on the offensive. All this sitting around waiting for trouble is what's slowly fucking up the character's lives. I just hope that this season's arc leads to that kind of realisation, and galvanises them into action a bit. Right now, Angel has much more direction as a series because its characters are able to take positive action (for example, the character growth of Cordelia seems to represent a far more comprehensive and positive maturing process than Buffy's latest arc allows for).

Maybe this is an "it's always darkest before the dawn" kinda season. I hope so. I just know that I won't be rewatching any of it, and it's taking a painfully long time to develop any of these characters at all.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
09:08 / 01.04.02
Ah, the old "painfully long time" argument. Sorry, not with you there. Pace in a series does far more than provide information.

1) Pace has thematic resonances. It helps reinforce the themes of a series. When you're dealing with the maturation of teenagers it should come hard and fast. When you're dealing with finding your feet as a adult it should slow down a little.

2) Pace has emotional resonances. It helps reinforce the emotional landscape of the piece. Why do musicals spend so long focussing on a moment (I hardly think it's a surprise to find a musical in series 6)? Because by focussing on that moment we can explore it more fully and therefore get more from it.

3) Pace affects characterisation. These characters are supposed to be in a rut!!! This can't be stressed enough! Adults become trapped in bad situations, situations that they can't escape from. Emotions last that little bit longer and hurt that little bit more.

The big bads that need defeating here just can't be thwarted with a wave of a stake. For once Buffy hasn't decided to utterly anthropmorphise it's demons making them all the more easy to slay. Here actions have consequences that don't just manifest as cyborg-demons and power hungry unstoppable demi-gods. In series 6 the scooby gang faces arguably the most horrifying threat yet - disolution. If B can always be reduced to a particular group of interpersonal relationships and their consequences, then the absence of said relationships surely poses the ultimate problem.

If we're going to complain about a deterioration in quality I need examples that go beyond the "this isn't exactly what I want from Buffy" argument. Scenes like Willow's meeting with Tara on the street and Buffy's last run in with Spike (read: deeply unpleasant, merciless pounding), are, quite simply, better written than almost anything that has gone before. Christ, even the lighting's Better.
 
 
uncle retrospective
09:59 / 30.04.02

Ok, We've had a few more ep's and I have to say I've really started to get back into the flow of things, The Ep involving Reily was fine, some good knife twisting. (Although having seen Richard Blackwood doing some of the lines made it a little painfull.)

The Wedding Ep was Very well done, Xander's fear of becoming his dad was fantastic, the flash forward was almost exactaly what I expected their marrage would turn out as and the all round heartbreak was put across well in a season that's been kinda high on the grimness.

Last weeks was one of the Best Buffy's I've seen in a long time. I loved the way it started with the bog standered Next Gen ep, with the whole what's real shick. Then it went for gold, Buffy willing to accept that she was in an asylum rather than accept what has become of her life.
I love the way the seasons plot holes were used in the story and I loved the Twilight Zone ending.
Here's hoping it keeps going.
 
 
cusm
16:52 / 01.05.02
New ep last night, finally, after weeks of waiting. Things continue to fall apart in increasingly bad ways. The preview for next weeks hints that things get extremely violent, and there was a shot of Willow with the dark magicky eyes. This week, Zander almost turned into a viable person, even. I suspect we'll soon find out if all the slow build of this season was worth it or not.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:12 / 06.05.02
Right- now I'm going to moan very very loudly - I am an angry bunny. I do not like what they have done to season 6 at all... Buffy would not work in a burger joint, she just wouldn't. Xander's become this irrational male and they've lost that whole lets fuck with gender roles love that they used to deal with so consistently. That happened at the very beginning of season 5 I guess. Willow's become a wuss because her whole strength of character could only come about by leaning on a crutch obviously. Rather then making Tara the mother figure (as she so effectively and easily could have been) they are slowly writing her out of the series. Anya and Spike also seem to be getting lost and what is Dawn except some whiney midget child????
I miss Giles.

Bring back my Buffy... *sob sob*
 
 
uncle retrospective
09:04 / 08.05.02
This is kind of weird as I'm going to defend S6 of Buffy.

I hated this season so much till about a month ago. I hated the spike/buffy angst rubbish, (I just didn't care.) They neutered Willow and gave her the horrible drugs/magic storyline.

Then things started to go right with the season. Charactors started acting like they should. But I'm going to go through your points before I gush.

Buffy would not work in a burger joint, she just wouldn't.
That's the point. The girl who saves the world every other month gets dumped with a McJob to pay the bills, a hard slap from the real world. They seem to be trying for the worst to happen to Buffy and this is perfect.

Xander's become this irrational male and they've lost that whole lets fuck with gender roles love that they used to deal with so consistently. That happened at the very beginning of season 5 I guess.

They dropped the ball on Xander at the begining of S3 when the guy who stood up to and threatened to hunt Angel down if he hurt Buffy, (And ment it.) got reset to bumbling dork. They reset again after the Zeppo ep, which was a bit crap too.

Willow's become a wuss because her whole strength of character could only come about by leaning on a crutch obviously.

I think Willow is going to make a come back, they've been building her up too long to have her reset her to idiot savent again. Well I hope so. I think the whole Willow plot is about removing the wind beneeth Buffy's wings.

Anya and Spike also seem to be getting lost and what is Dawn except some whiney midget child????

Spike is being used to twist the knife on the season. When ever it gets bad Spike makes it worse.
The Wedding ep made the point with Buffy telling Xander and Anya that they were what she held on to, that there was some hope that she could find happiness. Which was shattered.
Dawn is an idea floundering out of the water of s5. Where's that reset button?

Theory alert.
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Now I'm going to put my idea out here and I'm going to look daft at the end of the series but here I go.
I think Buffy is still in hell. It would explain why everything has gone wrong for her. The Scoobies have fallen apart, her life is down the toilet with work/Spike and her only grasp on normal family life is becoming a kleptomaniac who hates her and a father figure who left to go back to England.

But a lot of this season was shit. Here's hoping it was worth it.

And that was my two cent.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:34 / 08.05.02
Arrgh. Fuck's sake, Dawn's the new slayer. Why do you think she was introduced in the 1st place? She's left hanging this season (prattling on about puberty and how bloody alienated she is. No-one cares, not even Joss. See how he cut her song short in the musical. Blah, blah, blah....Dawn we know all that shit...) ready for the reboot at the end of the next. She's made from Buffy. Again, what does Dawn kill? Vampires, vampires, vampires....

Willow's just got the Magus storyline going on. She'll descend and rise again. Watcher material? You betcha. Who's Giles's little golden girl gone wrong (apart from Buffy)? Who's been developing all the skills necessary for the job? It seems so obvious where all this is heading....

And yeah, sure, Buffy's in Hell, but RL hell. That's hell for a vampire slayer. And it would truly suck if she was in a demon dimension - this series has been as much about developing(torturing?) all the characters as much as it's been about Buffy. Season six deals w/ Glory fallout and the aftermath of the ressurection spell - far more satisfying thematically/narratively/everythingly than: "Hey, Buffy's dreaming!" Which is what yr, "she's still in hell" thing equals really.
 
 
uncle retrospective
10:49 / 08.05.02

"Hey, Buffy's dreaming!" Which is what yr, "she's still in hell" thing equals really."

Eh. That's kinda what I'm worried about. I loved the Asylum stuff but I couldn't work out how to use it with out it sucking really badly.

And if the series because becomes Dawn the VS I'm going to be upset.
God. I just remembered. I read an intreview with Weaton on aint it cool saying that next season is going to be a year 1 thing.
shudder.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:05 / 08.05.02
Yeah, but if it does become Dawn's show, at least us Buffy fans'll get some closure. The next season can be the last if you want. And the Dawn series could be really good. Remember: Dawn may only fuck you off 'cause of the irritating teen thing - there's probably more to her than that. No, it's all cool, Gellar's run'll end on a high.....
 
 
uncle retrospective
11:09 / 08.05.02

Hum..

I new nothing about the end of S5 and when Buffy died, and after the big deal about Dawn being made of Buffy, I was hoping they'd have the balls to make Dawn the Slayer.
I'm not sure putting it off for a season will be a good idea, and having Buffy die again may get dull.

But I live in hope.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:22 / 08.05.02
One more thing: someone mentioned that season 6 might be a case of the "it's always darkest before the dawn", sexbot prophecy.

Well it probably is. literally.

I don't think it's gonna be as simple as Buffy dies, Dawn becomes the Slayer. I think the game rules change with Dawn (and, lets's face it, the game rules are pretty lax/flexible in Buffy as a whole, anyway) - she's made out of slayerstuff, she kinda IS Buffy. So, we'll wait and see what happens........
 
 
The Natural Way
12:23 / 17.05.02
Right, we were talking last night and here's how it stands.

General predictions for S7:

Dawn's the new Slayer.

Willow's gonna get it on Watcher-style.

Spike becomes a human/gets a soul/whatever. I mean, nomadic, gypsy types, mentions of "trials" (how "trying" would it be for a bad-arse magicthing to get that lickle chip outta Spike's head... I mean, c'mon...) and no mention whatsoever of what, specifically, Spike's asking for...just playing on some vague, nebulous intimations that it's gotta be the badthing. Oh, and it would be far more interesting plotwise than having Spike turn up growling and prattling on about being "the Big Bad".

It's easy when you know how.
 
 
gridley
12:41 / 17.05.02
Remember the dream episode. Remember how Xander's dream included him being really bummed that Giles didn't train him to be the new slayer? And then Buffy called him big brother. I always thought that meant Xander was going to end up becoming a sort of watcher. Maybe he and Willow will work in tandem? I don't know....

And, given the fact that Joss has stated the Slayer line now goes through Faith, why haven't those watcher bastards snuck somebody in prison to kill her off yet? That seems more their style than just going, "Ah, hell, we'll have to wait for that bad girl Faith to die..."
 
 
The Natural Way
11:19 / 20.05.02
It's possible, but Willow is very definitely Giles's other protege. She's his academic, nerdy, teacher side: perfect Watcher material. And the question remains: What's going to happen to her? Where's she going? I humbly suggest she'll follow the trad mage narrative and descend into hell, re-emerging as "Gandalf Willow" - basically, she's gonna get older and wiser and earthier and all responsible. I doubt she'll give up magic completely, but she'll take it's use much more seriously and use it sparingly (a la Giles). In many respects, Willow is little Giles.

TBH, the 'Willow as Watcher' prophecy is the one I'm least sure of, but I'll stick by it until I'm proved wrong.

Hindermate & Frerelyboy expect a genteel round of applause when, next season, their predictions are proved 100% on the money.

Wonderful.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:18 / 20.05.02
I'd love for them to be that inventive but I'm not so sure. Willow - set up as 'big bad' for season 7. If Giles can pull her back then maybe she will be watcher material but she's hit her evil side so perfectly with those wonderful references to the vampire her in season 3. I almost hope that she carries on being terrifying! Buffy I still have a problem with, I find her naive and pathetic, as for the hamburger joint... I'm still against it. She would not work there - a shop maybe or something like that but not the double meat palace!
Xander was showing his naivete in the last episode, on the straight and narrow, all black and white. The ambiguity in this season between what is bad and what's good has been the most compelling thing about it and I've enjoyed it. What is interesting is that Willow, Dawn, Anya and Spike are the characters who see that while the seemingly sorted Buffy and Xander are blind to the reality of death and anger.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:00 / 21.05.02
I think the 'Willow as out-and-out psycho' thing'll be done and dusted by the end of 6 (fuck off americans, I don't wanna know!). Her condition's bound up w/ the geeks and, once they're despatched w/, I expect she'll revert to normalcy. Willow's this series' big bad: the clues were always there, but our attention was being misdirected by the geeks (a la Spike & Drusilla in S2). Narratively, it's much cleaner for the Willow stuff to be resolved (as much as it can be) this season. And the Buffymongers are nothing if not slick narrateers. You don't think they'd be that inventive? Why do you watch Buffy? There's loads of invention - all the time.

You really think Willow'll remain evil? Sorry, just doesn't work w/ what I expect of Season 7. 6 is the "dark" season - Retro's already mentioned that Whedon has described the next series as having a 'Year One' vibe - that just doesn't tally w/ psycho Willows, but, happily, it does tally w/ the return of some of the show's naivete: its innocence.

There's a wonderful essay on slash and the Buffyverse in the very wonderful "Reading The Vampire Slayer" (which you should buy), where the essayist puts forward the idea that what is important to the Buffy fan isn't the closure, but the spaces inbetween - the meat/middle of the episodes - where all kinds of kinky, polymorphous goings on occur: Season 6 in a nut shell. The whole thing's been pure, unrestrained id, culminating in, arguably, the show's sweetest, gentlest character getting it on w/ her bad self. Thematically this works soooo well, and, as I stress above, it makes big sense for this stuff to be wrapped up over the course of the next couple of episodes.

And I loved the "Bored now...." too. And you say they're not inventive..... That one worked so well it hurt.

I suspect Jonathan might be the only nerd to survive the coming holocaust, however. I cautiously predict he'll be integrated into the scoobies.....eventually (but I did say "cautiously").

One more thing: Buffy almost permanently resides in those grey zones between moral absolutes - I think she's handling it quite well.
 
  

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