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L.O.T.R.-Moviegoing Experience

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
rizla mission
09:38 / 29.12.01
Out of interest, I watched the cartoon version last night. My friend was undertaking a quest to try and prove it was better than the new one - fat bloody chance, unless you reckon Top Cat is better than Citizen Kane!

But having said that, the dark riders and the orcs in the cartoon are really, really scary! And instead of just getting rid of the wraith's by kicking them up the arse, Frodo dispatches them with some kind of unexplained psychedelic magical shit .. I would have loved to have seen that in the film.. all very swirly and prog-rock..
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
15:52 / 29.12.01
quote:Originally posted by captain roaring:

Overall, smashing stuff, though the Ents were a bit wooden.



Boooo.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:33 / 31.12.01
I've been re-reading some of the book, having seen the film twice now... That man couldn't write dialogue for toffee. Peter Jackson has made a purse from a sow's ear.
 
 
deja_vroom
08:52 / 02.01.02
He couldn't write action scenes, also - violence, after all, is not the point of the story. Compare the lenght of the battle of Moria in the movie and in the book. It's poor writing, really. Hats off to Peter Jackson, he managed to pull it off, and there were SO many ways it could go horribly wrong (a little slip into wrongeness, for instance, would be the scene where Galadriel turns all green and wacky, screaming "lick my toes!" or something)
I've just watched it yesterday. I thought it was OK. I read the 2 first books just to make sure I wouldn't get lost with all the names. There were some people who have never heard about the book before, thought it was just regular action/adventure thing. The movie ended and they ent crazy, "That's how it ends? How is this possible? Three hours for this??" Hee hee.
Oh, and it was the first time I've seen an audience REACTING to what was on the screen, they were really into the thing - all the time saying "oh, shit, now they're fucked", "ho, no", this girl by my side got all sad when Gandalf fell: "Why didn't he fly or something??"
Now for my unrequested opinions:

>Best scene: When they get out of Moria, crying. (See Gimli!)

>The Thing At The Doorstep had a tag in on of its tentacles that said: I AM NOT REAL. I AM ALSO A REFUGEE FROM "REBOOT"

>Pippin was tops, really

>Frodo needs a smack in the head

>Is Ian Mckellen's nose that big, or is it just make up?

>Sean Bean was really good.

>The first battle (w/ Sauron): FUCKING ROCKS!

>All the other battles (with an orc/hero proportion of 50/1): Boooring.
 
 
Cat Chant
08:32 / 04.01.02
Loved it loved it loved it loved it loved it. Had about four thousand quibbles (Arwen and Aragorn Do. Not. Snog.), but that's all just part of the fun.

Having said that, I think you're entirely right, Flux: there are no characters and nothing happens. However, I've never been a fan either of character development or of plot, so I don't care. The thing for me about LotR is that it's not about people, it's not about plot, it's about... the Ring. This little tiny shiny thing that suddenly makes everything really fucking scary and raises the stakes beyond what anyone should have to bear. It's not like a literary-genre novel, where the emotional impact of the Ring would be explored in exquisite (and to me, probably tedious) detail, or an action-adventure movie, where the Ring would just blow stuff up a lot: the characters are fairly shallow plot devices designed to move the Ring about and through which the Ring works. The Ring is the only 'character': everything else is scenery. Which is why the Ring is so scary, la la la... But I think the flaws you point out *are* to do with the sword-n-sorcery genre, in that 'archetypal' characters (devoted servant, cantankerous dwarf, comic-relief hobbit, wise wizard) seem to be inextricable from the genre as a whole. I actually thought the film did a pretty good job of toning down the more wince-making king-worshipping genetics-is-destiny aspects of the book, though.

Enough of this and back to the love! Hee hee hee! Faramir next time! Faramir and Ents! Yayy!
 
 
Bear
08:52 / 04.01.02
Well I finally saw it last night after hearing all the great reviews, and after all that.. well I thought it was ok, thats about it. I'm pretty sure I would have enjoyed it more if I had read the books but I havn't - I just didn't get into it - usually when I watch I movie I get caught up in the movie but all the way through it I was thinking "oooooh thats a nice set" or "thats great CG" - I didn't really feel anything for the characters, well maybe apart from Gandalf he was great...

But I think I'll like the other movies better now that I know a little bit about the characters....

and what about that Star Wards trailer, geez that looks bad ...
 
 
grant
12:10 / 04.01.02
Did any New Zealander who stayed to the end of the credits understand what that Maori stuff at the end actually said?

It was probably just a thank you for using tribal lands or some such, but it'd be cool if there were something more.

I learned from the credits that Peter Jackson's kids were in the movie (as "cute hobbit children").

I learned from my friends that Peter Jackson himself was an old drunk in Bree. Can't believe I missed him.

And "Bad Taste" is being issued on DVD. God help us all.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:36 / 04.01.02
Grant: was it a long stretch of Maori? I know that anything to do with the government in NZ has to be available in Maori as well as English. As it stands, it probably was a message of thanks: lots of the filming took place on tribal lands in the Tongariro national park.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:56 / 04.01.02
And now for something completely different; JJJ reviewed the film, and hated it. Some of the user comments that follow are interesting (read them here) but I've pasted the review below... quote:It’s hard trying to review a film constructively and respectfully when it’s as excruciatingly boring as The Lord of the Rings first instalment, The Fellowship of the Ring. Comatose. For three hours. That was me.
A pity as The Fellowship of the Ring is 2001’s second big literary blockbuster release after Harry Potter - it’s a bonafide “event” picture which we all hang out for with great anticipation. Only The Fellowship of the Ring is about as dull as Harry only worse in a sense, because it’s even longer and duller.
Perhaps this just is a case of if you’re not into the J.R.R.Tolkien Lord of the Rings books and fan culture then you’ll hate the film… but it can’t be as simple as that. A film should stand alone on its merits no matter where its text is from. A film should involve us deeply, make us want to invest not only our time and money into the experience, but also our hearts, minds and souls.
Despite all of the effort, artistry, technical wizardry, dedication to Tolkien’s memory and a great ensemble of actors, including Elijah Wood (The Ice Storm), Viggo Mortensen (Indian Runner), Cate Blanchet (The Gift), Sean Bean (Stormy Monday), Christopher Lee (Sleepy Hollow) and Ian McKellan (Gods and Monsters), The Fellowship Of The Ring is shallow, simple-minded and could be a big budget episode of Xena: Warrior Princess. Plus the chicks get a raw deal – the strongest female presence in the film isn’t Lady Galdriel or the elf Arwen. It’s the pit of fire (aptly named the “Crack of Doom”) into which the hobbit Frodo (Wood)must destroy the cursed ring in his possession. From where I sat it strongly resembled female genitalia, not a firey volcano. Was there a “girl germs” issue at work here? One could be excused for thinking so, whether female characters in the original book were light-on or not.
If only Peter Jackson and Co. had worried less about the fans and more about creating a decent movie interpretation of Lord of the Rings, I guarantee this review would have been more positive. Fantasy fiction isn’t the issue, nor whether it’s all a bit daggy or over-hyped. Great film making can always overcome these disadvantages by transcending such boundaries and prejudices.
The bottom line is I absolutely resent being bored by films because I love them way too much.
Maybe it should have been called “Dances With Elves” after all…
2 stars.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:44 / 04.01.02
I really don't get this whole "there are no characters and nothing happens and certainly no character development" take on the film that some people have (although I agree with Deva on the Ring being the main character - of course, the Ring = Sauron = the Lord of the Rings, so it *is* the title character... but that's nicely fucked up though, the nastiness being so much the centre of it).

It makes me want to spurt cliches like "were we watching the same film?". Here are some characters, and how they develop (note: I don't care if it's not in the books - fuck 'em):

Aragorn/Strider: when we meet him he's in self-imposed exile, owing to massive 'issues' about the fact that his great-great-great-great-grandaddy fucked things up so badly by keeping rather destroying the Ring. Aragorn's afraid that it'll be "like ancestor, like heir" and that being a bit crap and greedy and weak runs in his blood. So he's off with his elf girlfriends (Arwen, Legolas) and his wild woods instead of doing the dutiful thing and being king.

The crucial thing is that because he faces up to his own weakness head on, because he has the self-awareness to realise that he wants the Ring but also that he musn't take it, he's able to resist it directly when confronted better than anyone else (even Galadriel). He's also forced into the role of leader, and discovers that he's actually pretty good at it... plus it seems Boromir's constant eulogies to Gondur and "my people" (which becomes "our people" by the end) rubs off at him. One of the themes of the film is power and responsibility (neat that the Spiderman trailer came before it when I first saw it), and by the end of the film, Aragorn is ready to accept his. Which he wasn't at the start. Thus: character development.

Boromir: conversely, as Aragorn comes into his own, Boromir falls. He's in soooo much denial about the Ring, the same way he is about the broken sword in Rivendale (which is a key scene for these two) - "pah, a mere trinket! I care not!, etc". Basically the Ring and the sword are both symbols of rulership, specifically a kind of kingly rulership that Gondur doesn't curently have, something which Boromir claims it doesn't need.

The contradiction is that Boromir knows deep down that *he* couldn't be a decent leader of Gondur really, that even his father's 'stewardship' (republican?) regime is failing, and that what's needed is for the king to return (cos in Tolkien's opinion, you need someone with royal blood in charge...). If the Ring is the atom bomb Boromir's almost like this USSR figure: he's got valid grievances (ie, Gondur being used as cannon fodder by the snooty elves), and admirable principles, and he clearly cares to an excessive extent about his "people" - but he's also tempted by the thought of taking power into his own hands (supposedly benevolent paternalism? "let me have the burden of the Ring, Frodo, I'm a lot bigger and older and wiser than you", etc). The more he tries to pretend that this isn't the case, the worse things get...

(You could also read into it that Boromir desperately wants in on the Aragorn/Legolas action despite himself...)

And that's without even mentioning Frodo, who by the end of the first film has gone from fresh-faced innocent eager for adventures to mildly traumatised and grief-striken but resolute loner. Although really this is just softening up for the *really* evil shit he goes through in the next two films...

God, I'm obsessed. Star Wars geeks: have your revenge and laugh...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:57 / 04.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:

God, I'm obsessed. Star Wars geeks: have your revenge and laugh...


bwah ha ha!
 
 
Mister Remington Finn
16:01 / 04.01.02
keep in mind that Tolkien was a phd in myth and legends, and wrote LoTR in the same kind of way. The reason that there is little of charcater development is that a lot of these people are at their apex, this is what they´re being born for and trained and such. That´s why the POV is the hobbits, who are sheltered from all of this, and do undergo development...but that´s gonna show in the next movies/books

I´m amazed at the Sean Bean/Boromir praise. I was kinda sad that he got this part. It looked a bit like the part of the two bit loser in Ronin. Sean bites the dust again kinda thing.(I Like Sean Bean, go watch Sharpe) But I was truly gripped by the heroism displayed at his death, continueing after three javelin sized arrows in his chest. Wonder if he´s going to play the Faramir part (Hey, It is his brother...)
 
 
pantone 292
19:34 / 04.01.02
it was a priceless slashfest in all senses.
what did B say? 'I would gladly take you as my brother, my captain, my king' as he expired in A's arms. Fantastic.

except the cgi on Galadriel! unnecessary twaddle ruining a fine moment.
and the fighting with light-sabres, i mean, staffs - those old guys should've lurched about a bit more, too much whizz in the wizards.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:59 / 04.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Bluestocking:
except the cgi on Galadriel! unnecessary twaddle ruining a fine moment.


It is a bit of a shame they couldn't get the evil-green-domme-CGI Galadriel to look anything like Cate Blanchett, isn't it? That did jarr a bit...
 
 
Fra Dolcino
07:06 / 05.01.02
Did anyone notice Pete Jackson as the buping drunk in Bree? I practically shouted 'There he is' in the cinema (Its Christmas and I'm not going to the panto, so what the hell).


No major quibbles for me but the steps in Moria falling away were a bit shitty

I wanted more of Boromirs Horn.
 
 
pantone 292
08:43 / 05.01.02
quite so good Friar, was Boromir's horn mentioned at all until he started blowing on it?
quote:evil-green-domme-CGI Galadriel
aye, the work experience body clearly bribed their way in to that one.

I may have to see it again...

oh, and as for that imbecile above, i tremble at the very thought of the double-crucifixion of Xena & Gabriella at the cinema...

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Bluestocking ]
 
 
Cat Chant
10:29 / 05.01.02
Flyboy, this is really odd, because I do see what you mean - but I still think that actually both Aragorn and Boromir are less examples of character development, more, um, sort of metaphors of How One Can Respond To The Ring. It might just be because I don't *like* Aragorn's character development, it seems to me too much like he's being warped into a shape which has already been set down for him by the demands of the genre/social organization (ie, monarchy is good; Gondor needs a king; Aragorn "is" the king due to his bloodline, above and beyond any conscious desires he may have regarding his own kingship).

All this is probably just coming from my profound embarrassment at my adolescent love for Aragorn, though, which feels to me now like a prime example of 'ideology' at work... I fancy him *because* he's a king (power, nobility, sacred calling), which is uncomfortable, and feels too much like being trained into loving one's chains. Not that I have a king, of course... Actually, I suspect the whole Aragorn-character-development is just an illustration of the "two bodies of the king" - Blue, can you help me out here? I only have dim memories of this.

And yes, Blue, lovely lovely lovely Aragorn/Boromir, mmmm. (Btw, have you read the Spivak article on Derrida/Foucault, where she keeps saying things like "one must honor the slash"?) Though I haven't spotted any Aragorn/Legolas yet, Flyboy. Maybe next film: mustn't get too greedy.
 
 
invisible_al
12:34 / 05.01.02
Got to see this over the New Year and it certainly pissed from a great hight on the Phantom Menance didn't it.

I loved it and it was bizarre watching it because I was picking up on the subtexts and all that as a good media studies student should at the same time as being a 12 year old going WOW, RINGWRAITHS KEWL!Definately the best film I've seen in ages.

Cool bits,
Ringwraiths in Bree, almost had me hiding behind my sofa.
Saruman and Gandalf smacking each other about, first bit in the film to really make me go ooooh.
Gladriell showing Frodo her dark fate.
Mines of Moria, 'They've got a cave troll' and 'You shall not PASS!' nuff said.

And finally the Death of Boromir, had me almost in tears, Sean Bean played it perfectly. Bollocks to people who say theres no character development, its all right there.

I think Jackson has managed it, its not the book because the book in film would have been crap and about twice as long. Its it's own film and a bloody good one at that. Jackson went with making it a film and doing things visually, saurmans defection and the like.

Oh yes it also blows that Harry Potter film away too, in fact I'm trying to think of 'fantasy' films that are up there with it, Excaliber is the only one that springs to mind, possibly Dark Crystal as well.

I'll stop now :-)
 
 
pantone 292
14:30 / 05.01.02
quote:Btw, have you read the Spivak article on Derrida/Foucault, where she keeps saying things like "one must honor the slash"?) No! where is it? How hard do we have to try to turn this into a S/F/D I wonder?
I only dimli remember the 'two bodies' [leg]alas...though isn't it always the case that the one who disdains power is always the more attractive and will always 'rightfully' inhabit it...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:45 / 05.01.02
Saw it last night. Stunning.

A few small complaints. Before that, though, I'd just like to point out that I only read Fellowship towards the end of last year and am halfway through Two Towers, so no calling me a fanboy.

It's a shame that getting rid of Tom Bombablahblah also meant that we never got to see the Barrow Wight sequence. Without it, there's none of the sense of the earth itself being alive that runs throughout the novel. The Ents in part two will, hopefully, make up for that.

The inn scene seemed really rushed. The hobbits are apparently allowed to stay the night without question, even after Frodo's disappearing act. Then, despite all warnings, they hook up with a total stranger before finding out anything about him. After the languorous pace of the opening village scenes, this just seemed too hurried.

Minor quibbles, I'll admit. There's one other that's bothering me a little more.

The novel seems to me to be Tolkien's own personal lament for the mythological, fantastical epic. It's full of characters mourning a dying age and there's a palpable sense of loss throughout, a beautiful ache. This just wasn't present in the film to anything like the same degree. Part of this is probably to do with the loss of the songs, but that was expected and unavoidable, really.

The Lothlorien scenes could - and should - have been longer. Jackson's included bits of dialogue that, when the loss of certain other aspects of the novel, don't have a huge amount of relevance. When Galadriel rejects the ring, she knows that to do so condemns her people to a life of exile, of dwindling importance in the world. That doesn't come out at all in the film, and it's part of the 'sense of loss' thing that I'm trying to describe. I just wish that Jackson had taken more time here, explaining the importance of the Elves in the world of Middle Earth and giving the audience the chance to appreciate just what a sacrifice is being made (in much the same way, the animosity between the Dwarves and Elves is touched on only briefly, denying the opportunity to show Galadriel's majesty when Gimli is struck by the desire to put it into speech).

It's still an absolutely awesome film. I can't see that any other director could have brought half the power to it that Pete Jackson's managed. Even with these minor omissions, it's unbelievable just how much is packed into the three hours, and how coherent it remains.

The only film I've seen on one of the big screens where, in a packed out audience, nobody made a sound at all for its entire length.

(Edited for incorrect spelling of names, Fatbeards!)

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: E. Ranty Dupre ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:20 / 06.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Deva:
Though I haven't spotted any Aragorn/Legolas yet, Flyboy.


<translated from the Elvish>"Sit down, Legolas..."</translated from the Elvish>

'Nuff said... He is *so* Aragorn's *other* elf-bitch...
 
 
Perfect Tommy
09:20 / 06.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Mister Remington Finn:
I´m amazed at the Sean Bean/Boromir praise. I was kinda sad that he got this part. It looked a bit like the part of the two bit loser in Ronin. Sean bites the dust again kinda thing.
Maybe this is apocryphal. Heck, it probably is. But I overheard someone saying that Sean Bean had wanted to play Aragorn since he was a kid and first read Lord of the Rings, that he thought it was just the absolute best possible role ever. And that's why they thought he'd make a good Boramir.
 
 
NotBlue
13:36 / 06.01.02
He seemed quite dismissive of the role on the "wank skinner show".
 
 
Cat Chant
18:14 / 06.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:


<translated from the Elvish>"Sit down, Legolas..."</translated from the Elvish>

'Nuff said... He is *so* Aragorn's *other* elf-bitch...


Thanks - I'll remember to savour it next time I see it. And Aragorn is now officially a slash-slut of the proportions of Garibaldi from Babylon 5.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:16 / 06.01.02
There's a link to some Aragorn/Legolas slash on today's Venusberg, for those who want some Elf/Scion action...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
04:03 / 07.01.02
I saw it with my kid brother in my hometown, having just finished reading the Fellowship of the Ring and well stuck into the Two Towers in bookform. Which did inform my viewing somewhat. I really liked it; was completely in the movie the whole way through. But it wasn't like seeing any other movie: I knew exactly what was going to happen, almost every minute. I think, for this reason, I am totally unable to judge it as a film in its own right. Something in me is always going to compare it to the book.

And I have a few complaints: there are details, like the songs and the food and Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Wights and the passing of the Elves, which simply didn't translate or didn't make it in. The books are so rich, so richly made with detail and tales and long traces back through the hisotiry and language of Middle-earth, that a complete movie representation would be impossible: it would be far too dull. Also I felt that Gandalf was far too stereotypically wizardy -- although I did like Ian McKellen, he didn't need to be in a pointy hat. Hugo Weaving was totally unconvincing as Elrond. And the CGI effects really spoiled that moment between Frodo and Galadriel; it could have been done in a far simpler fashion with a bit of acting from Blanchett, who -- yes -- was a bit wooden.

The change from Glorfindel (who you don't meet in the movie) to Arwen saving Frodo from the Nazgul is excellent. I'm wondering how they'll do Eowyn's role in The Return of the King already. But I agree with Deva: the Ring is the main character, and the largest female presence is the Eye of the Ring.

The Aragorn/Boromir moment was heart-rending, totally, if far more spicy for the unconscious homo-eroticism of the whole thing. I didn't really notice Aragorn/Legolas, but will be seeing it again, for sure. I likedAragorn, actually; except the exposition of his character was far too immediate for my liking. The reason you like Aragorn in the book is that you only very slowly find out (through bits of information that people drop at various times) how old he is, what his association with the Elves is, who he is, what the sword means, et cetera. And really, he's not so much a characte as the heir apparent, with a specific role to play as a leader, and later, a worker of magic. (Sorry for spoilers.) Thinking about the inhabitants of Middle-Earth as 'humans' doesn't quite work. They're meant to be mythic.
 
 
grant
15:37 / 07.01.02
quote:Originally posted by E. Ranty Dupre:
The Lothlorien scenes could - and should - have been longer. Jackson's included bits of dialogue that, when the loss of certain other aspects of the novel, don't have a huge amount of relevance. When Galadriel rejects the ring, she knows that to do so condemns her people to a life of exile, of dwindling importance in the world. That doesn't come out at all in the film, and it's part of the 'sense of loss' thing that I'm trying to describe. [ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: E. Ranty Dupre ]



According to my geeked-out friends, Jackson apparently shot a lot more of that sequence than was shown.

Meaning: he probably had a lot more of that stuff in there but cut it for time reasons.

Meaning: the DVD release will kick ass.
 
 
Rev. Wright
18:09 / 07.01.02
OH MY GOD. Finally saw it in Amsterdam on New Years Day after a night of Magick Mushrooms (Philospher's Stone). OH MY GOD

PS. my keen eyes did tell me that cuts had been made to the film, due to some jumps in the flow of the film. This either due to length of cinema print, or certification

[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: William Wright ]
 
 
The Knowledge +1
19:18 / 07.01.02
Bring on the DVD!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:51 / 08.01.02
quote:Originally posted by grant:
According to my geeked-out friends, Jackson apparently shot a lot more of that sequence than was shown.

Meaning: he probably had a lot more of that stuff in there but cut it for time reasons.

Meaning: the DVD release will kick ass.


Goody. I was hoping that this would be the case. But... cut it for time reasons? It's three hours long as it is. I'm sure an extra fifteen, twenty minutes wouldn't have been all that difficult to include. Hell, it may even have improved the pacing of the film a little.

[ 08-01-2002: Message edited by: E. Ranty Dupre ]
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
13:06 / 08.01.02
It's been out for about three weeks, and people are already thinking about the DVD. The temptation to include a spoiling line from Buffy Season 6 is almost overpowering...
 
 
grant
12:38 / 09.01.02
A friend emailed methis Salon article under the heading "troll bait."

Lord of the Rings vs. Star Wars.

This is the age of the geeks, isn't it.
 
 
Rage
23:08 / 10.01.02
I went to see it when I was straight and extremely tired. I ended up walking out halfway through because my severe boredom and sleepiness. Do you think I'm crazy? Do you think I should see it awake and with accompanied mind alteration? Was I watching the same movie you were?
 
 
The Natural Way
20:02 / 29.03.02
Just saw the new LOTR print w/ the Two Towers "trailer" at the end.

Helms Deep.

Ents.

Gollum.

Yes, indeed.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
15:04 / 31.03.02
Fucking right! I was such an unbelievable slut for this trailer - I feel like Harry Knowles. Jesus shit it was good.

Thousands of orcs pummelling the ground with their spears; Theoden's speech as the camera pulls back to reveal the walls of Helms Deep smothered with Rohirrim; Gollum crawling down the side of the cliff face: "The filthy... little... thieves".

V. exciting.
 
  

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