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Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:23 / 23.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Gun Runce:
Again, I think a lot of what people found baffling about the series can be more easily digested once you understand that the whole thing is the dream life of the 4.


Um, except that it's not? Issue 4 quite clearly states that it is in the real world with vast alien machines that can manipulate reality like it's 'only a game' or am I missing your point?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:33 / 23.11.01
yes. you missed it.

reality had been 'reduced' to raw emotion, primal instincts, subconscious desires. This all happened in the 'real' world. The concept of quintaspheres, higher realities etc is a constant theme in grant's work and explores the notions of free will, fate etc.

If you take the 'real world' of the marvel universe to be real, then what is the relationship that a writer or artist has to that world?

Why, an omnipotent puppet-master of course.

So if grant the writer(3d being) manipulates the Four (2d beings), it is feasible to suggest that our 'reality' is being manipulated by higher intelligences (4d beings) and so fuckin on...

As so often happen in grant's stories, a player within his game (a character within his story) discovers, or is made aware of this revalation, and learns how to manipulate their own reality.

oh and forget about time, readers, it's a dimensional red herring.

don't know why I felt the need to speak for Gun Runce.

Fuckin higher dimensional being fiddlin' with ma circuit.
 
 
The Natural Way
19:40 / 23.11.01
Lozt, I don't mean that the dream thing is built into the narrative, rather that it informs it. The reason Grant describes FF1234 as the "ultimate FF story" is because it dwells on the idic engines that drive the book: the family and their relationships to one another, their "enemies" and themselves. It's raw seething and elemental - numinous, like a dream. Everything stripped bare.

Hope I've cleared that up for you.

Now, back to that ultimate weapon thing.....

[ 23-11-2001: Message edited by: Gun Runce ]
 
 
The Knowledge +1
11:18 / 24.11.01
FF1234#4ROCKS!!!

And so does Ultimate X-Men.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:42 / 24.11.01
Great. I don't know anyone who wasn't confused by all that "secret weapon" jazz. C'mon, guys.... Thoughts....
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
13:55 / 24.11.01
Um, I'm still a bit confused by exactly what the Doom was doing, the action stuff didn't quite gel with me... I did love all the bits with Reed talking like a mad genius, and Sue telling off Doom. Finally, someone talks to Doom like they would in real life. The guy is so clearly a pathetic man... that's the first time I'd ever seen anyone acknowledge that. Pretty good. Maybe if I read it a third time, I'll understand what the hell was going on... the characterization of Reed, Sue, and Doom was marvelous all four issues though.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
14:52 / 24.11.01
Okay Gun, got it now, thanks...
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
15:16 / 24.11.01
previously posted by the runce:

Remember Alicia's words to Sue:

"This is just a cycle you always go through. You do know that, don't you?........
All four of you went into space and came back different to everyone else. There's no way back to normal.....
Anyway, you'll be back from whatever new dimension he's discovered, telling me how much you love one another.... You'll sweep through the door in a flurry of newspaper headlines and circuit encrusted tiaras from a parallel reality...."

thoughts begin to stir....
 
 
NotBlue
15:21 / 24.11.01
I'm still not buying that whole Human Torch put out of action by the rain thing. I mean the guy can go nova for crying out loud.

And Stacy Valentine?

Just a name, or calculated to trigger Ben's protection response mentioned in previous issues? You know "fallen woman" needs rescuing/avenging?

[ 25-11-2001: Message edited by: Duncan ]
 
 
NotBlue
10:13 / 25.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Gun Runce:
Great. I don't know anyone who wasn't confused by all that "secret weapon" jazz. C'mon, guys.... Thoughts....


Alicia's models of the FF. Doom manipulates the FF and crushes their avatars, somehow linked. Alicia builds normal versions of the team - linked in to Reed's machine like Doom's puppets were to his, alleviating Doom's influence, same for Namor.

They were communicating through that conch shell headset.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:29 / 25.11.01
lead on macduff!
 
 
The Natural Way
06:55 / 26.11.01
Yeah, I thought it was something like that, but it was soooo unclear.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:19 / 27.11.01
Isn't Alicia smashing her Doctor Doom Sculpture in that very last panel... Just as Doom cries NOOOO!!!
A meta-symbolic removal of Dr. Doom from the F.F's equasion perhaps... Grant wouldn't really need to write another Dr. Doom story unless it was his salvation/redemption...

Would love to See Annilius... Galactus... Blue area of the Moon... the Mad Thinker . . . THEY MUST CONTINUE this as an Ongoing!!!!
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
19:31 / 27.11.01
Grant is writing a Silver Surfer graphic novel, and he said something about making Galactus 'terrifying beyond all rational thought'. And Quitely is drawing it, so it will just have to be brilliant...

would love to see what Grant would do witha guy called the Mad Thinker, though...

[ 27-11-2001: Message edited by: Flux = R to the Izz-ad ]
 
 
NotBlue
20:44 / 27.11.01
quote:Originally posted by PATricky:
Isn't Alicia smashing her Doctor Doom Sculpture in that very last panel... Just as Doom cries NOOOO!!!
A meta-symbolic removal of Dr. Doom from the F.F's equasion perhaps... Grant wouldn't really need to write another Dr. Doom story unless it was his salvation/redemption...

Would love to See Annilius... Galactus... Blue area of the Moon... the Mad Thinker . . . THEY MUST CONTINUE this as an Ongoing!!!!


I thought the "muck"/debris falling through the last page meta panel kind of symbolised this, or maybe it's just Jae Lee's art style.

I am of course, pissed.
 
 
NotBlue
20:48 / 27.11.01
And while I'm about it, why can't Quesada see that in the marvel knights line Dr Strange is BEGGING for a GM makeover.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
09:47 / 28.11.01
Yeah, bring on Grant Morrisons' Dr Strangelove!
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:47 / 28.11.01
Yeah... i can see it now... after years of living in Greenwitch village... Dr. Strange finnally starts cross-dressing!!!

Latex Nurse's outfit anyone???
 
  

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