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deja_vroom
12:29 / 26.09.01
young runt, I'd like to seize the opportunity to ask - what is a fiction suit??
I've come across this term several times here. Have no idea of what it means.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:38 / 26.09.01
A character the reader/author clothes himself in to explore a 2d/fictional/homunculus universe.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:42 / 26.09.01
as opposed to a room in an office where paper plates and sandwiches are the order of the day.
 
 
deja_vroom
12:54 / 26.09.01
by runt: clothes himself in to explore a 2d/fictional/homunculus universe.

ummm... er... ok, thanks.

*leaves room confused*
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:05 / 26.09.01
hey, take some of these stale sandwiches with you, before you go man.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:48 / 26.09.01
go on, yawning person, make fun of my ignorance, i don't care.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:55 / 26.09.01
sorry jaded one - jlust jloking.

ps. I know someone who is so afraid of engaging in discussion that she yawns at the start of ....

christ, what a boring cunt.

even in print.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
17:49 / 26.09.01
impossible man (john a'dreams) was a fave of mine (the self is a murderous lie). His first (collectors item) appearance being a story (unfolding and dispersal of space/time structure) of an infintely (allah akbaar) powerful being being bored by human beings who don't like being (repetitive, fractals n that) the subject of his 'childish'(Horus - Marvel Boy) games (Invisibles).

 
 
Warewullf
08:32 / 27.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Jade Emperor:
by runt: clothes himself in to explore a 2d/fictional/homunculus universe.

ummm... er... ok, thanks.

*leaves room confused*


Simplified, it just means that any persona you create and use to interact with reality is a fiction suit.

For example, "Jade Dragon" is the fiction suit you use to interact with the "Fictionality" of the Barbelith.

Using Fiction Suits lets you be anyone you want to be.
 
 
e-n
06:38 / 28.09.01
meanwhile...
..back on topic.
Wasn't Reeds last line of #3 just the best.I never ever read the FF before and only got interested beacuase of grant.I'd like to see what he could have done with a longer series.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:01 / 28.09.01
"Well, Victor... I've been thinking."

Yup. Great stuff.

I also liked "I'm Ben Grimm. By God." And the fact that Namor saves the day in part just by being so incredibly fucking arrogant.

Honestly, I can't believe Grant's making me like the Fantastic Four this much, fer chrissakes...
 
 
rizla mission
08:04 / 28.09.01
Got #3 today.

The art's terrific, and it all looks rockin', but the story still isn't meaning much to me.

It's all more like an overblown injoke for people who already know a lot about the characters .. but to my not-terribly-interested-in-The-Fantastic-Four self, it just seems like a bunch of costumed people arsing about in a not very entertaining way..

I do think Dr.Domm and The Mole Man are great villians though. I like characters liken that.
 
 
Hush
17:39 / 28.09.01
A funny thing happened on my first read thru of this month's Grant supply:- New X meN seemed a bit off the boil while this was top, I've finally got it.

I'm not an analytical comic reader, I like to just cruise a complex surface, and enjoying an ambience, while the narrative slowly develops, and its this aspect of GM's work that is to the fore here, four issues is not going to be enough; the mood made should sustain further.

And a killer closing line.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:01 / 29.09.01
Ff1234no.3
First read: oh dear. That was shite.

Second read:

Okay, ‘..now experience itself is open to manipulation’ – increasingly, Morrison’s fictional selves are becoming aware of the limits and strengths of their ‘reality’. The game analogy is strong as usual – sledgehammer strong in the case of 1234. In Morrison’s game the player pieces (doom, king mob, etc.) seem to be forming very strong links with the player/creator (morrison) and creating a new kind of narrative. (all of his characters look like him now as well). Seems Morrison is lapping up this split personality buzz – the duel between Richards and Doom over Grimm’s mind struck me as powerful storytelling (a buzz that grows when I go back and re-read the sequence – when the doctor in the bed next to Grimm has his mind and voice taken over (note his speech in quotation marks) it spurs Grimm to snap out of his wallowing – so I take it Reed won that tussle with Doom.)

‘Prime Mover’ next month ey? – In Dooms game, Reed’s ‘location’ is given as grid 0000 cube 023.
Reed as 23 – others can explain the several layers of significance here if they can be arsed. But 23 is a prime number and the fact that prime numbers are only divisible by ‘themselves’ (the whole) and ‘one’ (I, the individual) sets me finkin about fings and that Reed is at once himself and the FF and must be the Prime Mover.

Sometimes the rapid conclusion of events in Morrison’s stories dissapoint me. The sudden speeding up of events in this episode bothered me on first reading, then with the game analogy firmly locked into my skull, and the fact that Doom (and Richards) can manipulate experience suddenly seemed to validate the appearance of Alicia in the caves, the subbie and sue on the roof, the general dreamlike sequence of events that pervaded this and the previous issues. There was a great theatricality to this issue, with the whole, ‘enter stage left’ vibe kickin ass, as is its wont.

I love this comic – even the shit- liners like, ‘love is the name we use to prettify a savage genetic imperative’.

Worse: ‘the sweet smile of the peace activist…. (response: ha-ha, yawn)

The sick shit wid da moleman was cool – hammin it up, shakespeare style.

This gameplay approach of morrisons has validated all the years of endless back and forth conquests and defeats between the ff and Doom. In fact, extended, it validates the monotony of all american superhero stories. And it invigorates them too. You can apply the structure resptrospectivley and experince the marvel and dc universe in a whole new way.

Final Point – Morrison has been using very large robots recently – (xmen, 1234) – could they be seen as a symbols of old centralised power structures lumbering violently to the end of their lisfespans? The small units of cell-like teams – Invisies, Xmen, the FF as symbols of a mercurial, eccentric, organisations, also known as the future?

Who knows and thank you for your patience and commitment.

Ps: wasn’t too into the xmen this month (okay sick shit was good n that but…I know, there’s another thread. I’m going).
 
 
The Natural Way
15:39 / 30.09.01
quote: with the game analogy firmly locked into my skull, and the fact that Doom (and Richards) can manipulate experience suddenly seemed to validate the appearance of Alicia in the caves, the subbie and sue on the roof, the general dreamlike sequence of events that pervaded this and the previous issues. There was a great theatricality to this issue, with the whole, ‘enter stage left’ vibe kickin ass, as is its wont.

Absolutely. You really have to get your head around the fact that this is the dreamlife of the 4 to get into this comic. However, I'm not so sure the doctor was having his mind controled. The quotes could simply imply that he was impersonating Sol, who lay dead in the bed next to him - Grant sampled that sequence from From Hell, methinks.

I love the way the whole thing seethes with numinous, mythic significance. It's 100% sigil: everything concentrated, condensed and reduced - very raw and elemental.

I wanna see Morrison do Annihilus (sp?).
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:08 / 01.10.01
yes: 100% sigil sums it up.

As for the doctor's voice: I see what you mean, it could simply be an impersonation of Sol. The imagery, on the page before though, of Doom and Richards concentrating their thoughts in the background led me to come to my original conclusion of mind control.

Any thoughts on the prime number thang?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
23:52 / 02.10.01
just realised: ben calls his hospital neighbour, 'Sol',.

Sol means sun or whatever - it has a connection to Flaming Torch. Sol is always winding up Ben in his hospital bed - tellin him to quit gripin all the time.

Sounds familiar? Sol is the subconscious presetation of Johnny Storm in Bens' predicament.

It's also interesting to consider that Sol has been castrated - much in the same way Johnny Storm has been rendered impotent in his own nightmare - beaten by thwe Sub, controlled by the moleman - generally useless.

And more and more I'm thinking Stretch is behind the whole thing - even controlling Dr, Doom's thoughts and movements.

Why did Doom mention university to Ben Grim in issue One (as if they knew eachother there?)

This comic demands rereadings.
 
 
moriarty
03:11 / 03.10.01
Viktor von Doom, Reed Richards and Ben Grimm all went to the same University. it was in University that Doom suffered the accident which scarred him, and accident which could have been avoided if he was less full of pride and listened to Richard's advice.
 
 
the Fool
04:36 / 03.10.01
23 - it pops up all over the place, some sort of number meme. First articulated by William Boroughs (apparently), then picked up by lots of people.

There is a whole section in Cosmic Trigger (Robert Anton Wilson) just dedicated to the syncronisities of 23.

And I think that's why GM chose it...
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:30 / 05.10.01
I recall reading that "they" are considering making 1234 into 123456789+

could be cool.....
 
 
Tamayyurt
13:52 / 21.11.01
When does the last issue of this come out damn it?!?!?
 
 
tracypanzer
13:56 / 21.11.01
Supposed to be out today.
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:05 / 21.11.01
IT DID!!! I haven't read it though.
 
 
Hush
18:13 / 21.11.01
23 were big on Barbelith a few years ago, especially 23/11, which is soon. I was kinda hoping the feud thing would last that long and create massive discord.

But Tom has stopped it.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
19:05 / 21.11.01
it had better be in the fucking shop tomorrow.

If not, I'm going to dig a hole in morrison's back (with a spoon) and fist him.

well, I am Thrax.

amthrax.

yeah.

bwahahahahahaha!
 
 
CameronStewart
19:09 / 21.11.01
It's out. I've read it.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
20:14 / 21.11.01
I'll leave my spoon in the cutlery tray then.
 
 
rexpop
02:08 / 22.11.01
#4 isn't a bad read. Although I think the series would have been better like a graphic novel on the lines of 'Earth 2'.

Hopefully a trade paperback will be out soon.
 
 
sleazenation
06:45 / 22.11.01
Well rex its almost certain Grant's marvel work will be released pretty swifty, maybe you should wait for the collections if you prefer that format.

I think marvel will continue pre seriealising the material for their trades for the moment though- as discussed in a previous thread- it makes economic sense especially in the current climate of recession.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
13:33 / 22.11.01
One of Marvel's immediate goals is to get the writers to build up storylines that can be released quickly after they are finished as trades so that they can have a back catalog of recent material trades... In the case of New X-Men and X-Force, they've done a good job, cos they can release and promote a new trade just before a new storyline is started in the regular issues, so there are multiple 'jump-on' points rather than just one.

Question: in addition to 1234, did Ultimate X-Men come out this week?
 
 
sleazenation
13:58 / 22.11.01
yes it did.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
14:02 / 22.11.01
Cool. I get the sense that I'm the only person around here who likes Ultimate X-Men... no one ever mentions it, even in passing. I like it lots, Millar does a great job...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:54 / 22.11.01
SPOILERS! maybe!

Didn't like the last issue the first time I read it, liking it more as I reread it (like the other issues in this series really) but it is a bit too rushed, as pretty much the entire thing has to be explained in the last issue along with a satisfying denoument in order to fit in with the idea of 'Four'. Ideally It needed to be Fantastic Five in a way, explanation in issue four and finale in issue 5. Liked the idea of Reed manipulating his brain, shame Grant's already used that idea for the MM in JLA. The whole thing of Doom trying to paint Richards as his alter ego/nemesis didn't really come off though. It seemed more as if Morrison discarded that idea because he had a better idea for a direction to the story.
Some clear idea of how much free will everyone had in the game would have been nice, the Mole Man and Namor were acting as though Doom had made a deal with them in issue 3 and the sudden move to the subterranean scene was baffling again, it needed the space of another issue really. But Jae Lee's twisted artwork was brilliant.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:15 / 23.11.01
Again, I think a lot of what people found baffling about the series can be more easily digested once you understand that the whole thing is the dream life of the 4. It's all uncontrolled libido and id - everything is significant/mythic and cause and effect just aren't as important here. The 4 on Freuds couch, as it were. A game where everyone is shuffled along from one idic/elemental environment to another.... Free will is exhibited by Ben, Sue, Namor etc. when they decide to buck the plan Doom has for them and retake possession of their lives. Or is it all Reed's doing? Grant's having fun here with our definitions of "free will" and "determinism" - we're not sure where one ends and the other begins. No differnece, same thing...

No, my only problem with this ish was Reed's "secret weapon" - Alicia. It's never made clear what's going on with her. Is there an even deeper level to the game - is she the ultimate Prime Mover? Are they all her sculptures? What's she doing in that panel... It's supposed to be significant, but I just don't get it - it's not clear. Shame. Otherwise really enjoyed it.

Esp. Namor getting his pic taken on the Doombot's busted face. Proudponce.
And the Doom as Tulpa stuff - cool. But fave line:

"Toys? You ought to be ashamed of yourself."

Go Sue.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:03 / 23.11.01
no. no. no.

yes.

nuff said.
 
  

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