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New X-Men #115

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
klint
12:39 / 25.07.01
quote:Originally posted by The Ungodly Lozt and Found Office:
Marc Hempel wasn't it?



Yes. X-Men by him would be weird.
 
 
Sam Lowry
14:23 / 25.07.01
Oooooh! fanboy wishing time!

I want a Gaiman/McKean X-title!
or, better yet, what about Alan Moore and Bill Sienkiewicks? =)
(makes slobbering Homer face)


Seriously, I think Quitely's art is excellent, but it seems he keeps getting behind deadlines... I hear there's a fill-in artist for the next story arc... is that true? who will be drawing it?

(duh... I just re-read the first posts of the thread and the answer is right there: somebody called Eddie van Scier... sorry!...
)

[ 25-07-2001: Message edited by: Sam Lowry ]
 
 
Jamieon
18:36 / 25.07.01
Yawn:
quote: I'm finding all these new mutants a wee bit Strontium Doggish.


Definitely. My New X Men reading mates and I've been going on about this ever since ish 1 and the 1st appearance of Ugly John.

I like the idea that some mutants don't have any powers per se, and the only thing singling them out is that they're bloody ugly.

"No! No! It's the Ubermensch come to replace us! Quake before Homo Superior........ Oh, not to worry boys, it's just that bloke with the pig faces..."

Anyway, have a look at this:

(broken link removed by dericgeneric)

Looks like Genosha's well and truly fucked, then.

[ 25-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Tom Coates
18:55 / 25.07.01
Yes - I'm unconvinced by pointless ugly mutants as well. Seems to me that if a mutation doesn't bring with it power or advantage then it isn't a mutation in the X-men sense of the world. It really is supposed to be an evolutionary leap forwards isn't it? Which is another thing, because I'm trying to work out how exactly it gives any reproductive advantage to not actually look anyone in the eye without immediately incinerating them.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
19:48 / 25.07.01
I think the key weakness of the way Marvel has portrayed mutant powers and mutations is in that there are SO many unique mutations rather than a handful of different kinds of mutations that are based on gifts that could be genetically useful evolutionary steps...

good examples of this would be healing/regenerative skills (Wolverine), psychic abilities (Prof X, Jean Grey), increased physical strength/agility/senses (Beast, Angel), control over physical density (Kitty Pryde), enhanced natural cognitive abilities (Cypher, Forge) and pushing it a bit, teleportation like Nightcrawler, control over electromagnetic fields and such (Magneto), and temperature control (Iceman). There's just so many highly specific and flamboyant powers that just make no sense...

About Frank Quitely drawing "ugly" people: Well, I think he draws a rather handsome Wolverine, which few others seem to do. His Emma Frost and Jean Grey are pretty good looking. Maybe people's problem with him is that he doesn't draw superheroes as supermodels, because, let's face it, that's just ridiculous.

[ 25-07-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
Ellis
19:52 / 25.07.01
While we are talking about mutatants and mutations, and not wanting to start yet another X Men topic, I was wondering, is Mr. Sinister a mutant?

Isn't he just a normal human who was made better by Apocalypse?
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:08 / 25.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
While we are talking about mutatants and mutations, and not wanting to start yet another X Men topic, I was wondering, is Mr. Sinister a mutant?

Isn't he just a normal human who was made better by Apocalypse?


If memory serves me, yes, that was established in some miniseries from the late 90s which i did not read.

I've always hated Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister. To me, the introduction of those two characters was the beginning of a long series of crap villians in the X-Titles which were omnisciencent, omnipotent guys with no backstory with megalomaniacal plans for destruction which were so grand as to be vague and meaningless. They just couldn't be any less compelling. I hope that they never return.
 
 
Ellis
20:11 / 25.07.01
I disagree, but I quite liked the Age of Apocalypse, and X-Cutioners Song storylines.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:15 / 25.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
I disagree, but I quite liked the Age of Apocalypse, and X-Cutioners Song storylines.


Now, I liked Age of Apocalypse too, though certainly not because of Apocalypse....out of curiousity, I'd like to know what, if anything, there is to like about X-Cutioner's Song. That is probably one of the lowest lows in the history of the series, I'd say. Christ, that story was so convoluted and filled to the brim with exactly the kind of non-events I was just talking about...I can barely even recall anything that *happened* in it.
 
 
sleazenation
20:56 / 25.07.01
I stopped reading the x-titles just after x-ecutioners song.

didn't start again until marvel knights.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:02 / 25.07.01
Wasn't the X-cutioner's song interemingled with Cable's time-spanning twin Strife???

Not much to remember... Cable died for like a week until his own series debuted!!!
On Mutation:
I've always sort of seen it as "Mutants" as a whole organism are the evolutionary jump. Individuals may be granted shit mutations, ala Ugly Jon, but each one contributes to an overarching genitic movement forward. In that same light is, for me, the explaination of the increasing number of mutants as well as the variety of specialised powers surfacing... (usually due to poor unimaginative writers)... but with-in the "universe" some mutations repeat themselves, Magnetism, Telepathy... others are extreme specializations on a them:
Engery generation/control--like Sunfire & Havok... turn into specialized mutations like Cyclops (who apparently can't control his powers more as a result of braindamage incured from falling out of an airplan & bumping his head---ouch details here ) Pyro, Banshee, even Cannonball... etc.
Or how general Telepathy becomes the specialized powers of Mastermind, Karma, Psyche/Mariage .... etc.

Then there are the mutations that mix & match. Colossus is not just strong like say Beast... something else is at work. Nightcrawler's agility, wall crawling & teleportation. Sunspot AND Cyclops absorb solar energy as a minor aspect of their main powers. Canoonball is invulnerable while Blasting. so on & so forth...I've been enough of a geek .. must lay down now
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
01:58 / 26.07.01
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PATricky:
Wasn't the X-cutioner's song interemingled with Cable's time-spanning twin Strife???

actually, it's Stryfe.
From what I remember, the story involved Cable for some reason trying to off Prof X, while Stryfe, Sinister, and Apocalypse, plus all their cronies fighting each other and all of the X-teams in a big meaningless free-for-all. The root of it all came from Stryfe having mommy and daddy issues with Scott and Jean. The only significant thing about this story is that it introduced the Legacy Virus, I'm fairly certain.
 
 
Jamieon
01:58 / 26.07.01
I really like the X Men feeling a little bit 2000ADish. It's one of those things that'll single out Morrison's run, making it feel totally different from the X that came before. Ugly John made me laugh, and then feel sad, and, personally, I enjoyed him.

I liked his pig faces.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that some mutations should contain zero survival potential. Mutations as dangerous as Cyclops' and as stupid as John's do nothing to sustain human life, but... great! Who cares? I'm pretty sure nature's thrown up its fair share of dumb arse mutations - the Duck billed Platypus, anyone?

Yeah, yeah, I know.... It's survived as a distinct species, so it's actually been quite successful...........

 
 
rizla mission
15:23 / 26.07.01
I just got this issue today.

To clarify;

Does that island that the Sentinal's are trashing at the end belong to Magneto? And is he that bloke in the wheelchair who gets hit with a plane?

(you'll forgive me, my Geek-Fu is weak today)
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
15:34 / 26.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:

Does that island that the Sentinal's are trashing at the end belong to Magneto? And is he that bloke in the wheelchair who gets hit with a plane?

(you'll forgive me, my Geek-Fu is weak today)[/QB]


Though this is explained earlier in this thread, I'll save you the trouble of wading in the deep end of this geek pool:

Magneto is the president of Genosha, the island attacked by the Sentinels. He was in a wheel chair because in the last issue before Grant took over, he was disemboweled by Wolverine. It is implied that he is killed, though of course we all know he will eventually return.
 
 
Chubby P
10:45 / 02.08.01
quote:Originally posted by PATricky:
Wasn't the X-cutioner's song interemingled with Cable's time-spanning twin Strife???



Stryfe pretended to be Cable and shot Xavier with a bullet that gave Prof X a virus.

X-Force go to find out whats going on so they have a big fight with the X-Men and X-Factor since Cable used to lead them so they're obviously working with Cable to assisinate Xavier.

Jean and Cyclops are kidnapped by Stryfe for neglecting him a a child.

Mr Sinister turned up to be cryptic and get shot in the head by Bishop.

Archangel has the chance to kill Apocalypse but doesn't.

Cable and Stryfe "die" at the end with the implication that Cable is a clone of Stryfe and Stryfe is Maddies and Scotts son.

Basically the story had everything but Magneto (Which they were going to put in but decided it was full enough already.)

I bought the Graphics Novel cheap when the X-Men movie came out last summer and I'd been sucked into the hype. I've read it once and can't get through it again. The most interesting thing about the Graphic novel was that in the forward it says how Peter David joked about Wolverines admantium skeleton being ripped out by Magneto which they later used in the "Fatal Attractions" storyline.
 
 
Jamieon
10:58 / 02.08.01
quote: And is he that bloke in the wheelchair who gets hit with a plane?

It's not a plane, it's a giant fist with the wings of a plane.

See, I told you it wasney obvious......
 
 
Jamieon
11:06 / 02.08.01
Klint:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morisson said that Frost was going to have a power nobody had ever had before
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did he? I thought those comments were made in reference to Wolverine, and "doing something with his healing factor that no one had ever thought of before".

Personally, I'm going with the starfish idea my brother concocted.

And I like the idea that Emma's powers have mutated into something radically different. The "losing all empathy/humanity when she activates her powers" thing sounds really good. Grant's tapping into that whole Snow Queen bitch vibe that's kinda hung around the character since her inception, but 's never been fully realized.

I'm waiting for her to try it on with Cyk.

Watch that tight arse lose all control of its 'functions' - it's gonna get messy.

It may not be Jean who has an affair......
 
 
z3r0
11:45 / 02.08.01
I was reading this thread and wondering, like, I've stopped reading X-men back when John Byrne was working on it!
And it's like, all of a sudden prof. X is this young muscular guy, wolverine has bones instead of adamantium etc... I think they give too much freedom to the writer's, don't you? All of a sudden the thing looks like a mexican soap-opera full of stupid twists to hold your attention. And the art doesn't help, I think it's got quite confusing, what are they trying to emulate, a videogame?
I was thinking in start reading it again because grant morrison is on it, but then I would miss all the references about things that have been happening since whenever was that Byrne was on charge. Don't know, really...
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
16:54 / 02.08.01
Well, if it comforts you any, Xavier is back to being portrayed as an old guy, and Wolverine has his metal bones again, and Grant Morrison is writing the comic as a selfcontained thing that doesn't need the reader to know about previous issues other than his own.
 
 
Seth
12:11 / 06.08.01
Anyone know how Wolvie got his steel back?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:27 / 06.08.01
Viagra.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:28 / 06.08.01
Who cares?
 
 
Seth
13:02 / 06.08.01
quote: Viagra.

Pissed myself. Bub.

quote: Who cares?

Wins.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:09 / 06.08.01
Ah thenkyew.
Now go change yr trousers, and open a window.
 
 
Seth
14:29 / 06.08.01
No thanks – I’ll suffer the discomfort to force nauseating conditions on the rest of the scum at work.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
14:29 / 06.08.01
quote:Originally posted by expressionless:
Anyone know how Wolvie got his steel back?


Apocalypse gave it to him when he turned him into his Horseman Death (a la Archangel) in the horrible The Twelve storyline. This is the same story in which Cyclops merges with Apocalypse, which is the excuse they are using for him acting like more of a badass lately, as opposed to a character which behaves in much the same way unflavored gelatin tastes.
 
 
fluid_state
00:39 / 07.08.01
My understanding of X-Men history, post-byrne:

Kitty pryde joins the team, gets demoted to the New Mutants (wow, I am getting old), rejoins X-men. X-men go to space, meet shi'ar empire, get infected by the Brood (Geiger-Aliens who speak english). Ororo becomes a space-whale. X-Men return to earth, more shit happens, morlocks kidnap angel, storm becomes leader of morlocks, Wolverine beats the crap out of the Silver Samurai, and Rogue joins the Xmen, having proven herself against Viper and the Samurai. Dark Phoenix returns just in time for Wolverine's wedding to Mariko. Dark Phoenix is revealed as one of Mastermind's illusions, and Mariko refuses to marry Wolverine (Claremont was LOVING the japanese sense of duty, frank-miller style). Ororo loses her powers to forge. Magneto joins X-men as Xavier leaves Earth for health reasons. Powerless Storm beats Cyke for leadership of X-Men (UXM 201), Cyke leaves because he's so sensitive. Wolverine get fucked with by Lady Deathstrike (UXM 205, great issue). Wolverine mauls Rachel Summers (ask someone else), X-Men fight Hellfire club, Nimrod shows up and X-Men fight Nimrod. Morlocks get destroyed by Maurauders.

y'know, I thought this was going to be quick. can anyone pick this up where I leave it? (by necessity, as rereading this has made me realize I need a real life NOW... I'm going next door to simulate one)

god, I'm getting old.
 
 
the Fool
01:34 / 07.08.01
You know, there's at least ten years of convoluted crap between the Mutant Massacre and now. I gave up after 'Xtinction Agenda' storyline. Is there any point unearthing all that history? I think most of it is probably best left forgotten...
 
 
fluid_state
04:37 / 07.08.01
that's exactly what i realized... sometime you just have to sound it out first, y'know?
 
 
Jamieon
08:23 / 07.08.01
Balls.

I want to talk about Wolverine as starfish, Emma Frost and Cyk getting it on and the preview of the first page......

Not about whether Mr. Fucking Sinister is a mutant.

Who cares?
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
15:54 / 07.08.01
From Marauders slaughtering the Morlocks on:

In the Morlock massacre, Nightcrawler, Kitty, and Colossus are critically wounded. Rachel Summers was also wounded badly by Wolverine just before this event because she hunted down Selene and Wolvie didn't approve. Immediately after the massacre, Psylocke joins. Over the next year, Dazzler, Longshot, and Havok join. in a story a year later, the X-Men (with Colossus back in the fold) fake their deaths and move to Australia with Madelyne Pryor (Cyclops' estranged wife) in tow. Around this time, Nightcrawler, Kitty, Rachel Summers, with Captain Britain and Meggan form Excalibur in London. Nothing interesting happens with them for a looooooooong time. Nothing really interesting happens in Australia til the first Genosha storyline, which is explained somewhere else in this thread. then comes the Inferno storyline where Madelyne becomes the Goblin Queen, is revealed to be the Marauder's boss Mr. Sinister's clone. Sinister created the clone to fuck with Cyclops, who he has been obsessed with since Cyclops was a kid. He wants to create the ultimate mutant from Scott and Jean's DNA, that's why he created Madelyne when Jean was presumed dead. In this story, X-Factor (the original X-Men) learn that the X-Men are alive, and the X-Men learn that Jean Grey is alive. Madelyne Pryor dies at the end of the story, and Magik from the New Mutants reverts to being a child again. The X-Men, still in Australia then go through a big series of downer events...Longshot for some reason gets fucked up and leaves (can't remember why), Storm appears to die, same goes for Rogue, the rest of the X-Men go through the Siege Perilous (I will not explain this. it's too contrived) and end up reborn throughout the world. The next year is full of boring stories about Forge and Banshee looking around for the X-Men, and the X-Men popping up all over the globe. During this year, Psylocke is reborn as an Asian ninja, Rogue has a romance with Magneto in the Savage Land, Jubilee joins the X-Men, and so does Gambit. Around this time, Cable takes over the New Mutants. After this, the X-Tinction Agenda occurs, and the X-Men, New Mutants and X-Factor fight Cameron Hodge in Genosha. Then there is a big story in which they go off into space, and Professor X rejoins the team. then the X-Men and X-Factor go fight the Shadow King on Muir Island, and the teams merge as the X-Men again...(END OF CLAREMONT's ORIGINAL RUN)

(NOW ENTERING THE SCOTT LOBDELL with Jim Lee and Fabian Nicieza ERA)

the line up is divided into two groups: Blue (Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Gambit, Psylocke, Rogue, Jubilee) and Gold (Storm, Colossus, Iceman, Archangel, Jean Grey, and Bishop who joins around that time). This is where everything gets shitty, honestly: there's a lot of things that go down over the next few years (X-Cutioner's Song, Legacy Virus, etc) but it's all shit. Pretend it didn't happen. It's too confusing to get into. In one story called Fatal Attractions, Magneto rips out Wolverine's adamantium, and Prof X erases Magneto's mind. The Age Of Apocalypse is a storyline that happens halfway through the 90s...it takes place in an alternate world where Prof X dies young, Magneto forms the X-Men as a good guy (Sabretooth is one of them...he's a good guy too) and Apocalypse rules the world. It's pretty good, and it's been recycled to death ever since, a la Days Of Future Past. Moving right along...Onslaught happens the next year, this evil creature of omnipotent power is created by Prof X by the evil of Magneto's mind, which is somehow trapped inside of him or something like that. Onslaught causes a lot of trouble, "killing" the Avengers and Fantastic Four, and when the story is done, Xavier is taken in by the government. The year later, the US gov't puts together Operation Zero Tolerance and reinstates the Sentinels. The operation is spearheaded by Bastion, who it turns out is the Master Mold and Nimrod made into a human after going through the Siege Perilous with Rogue waaaay back in the Australian stories. Operation Zero Tolerance ends with the X-Mansion being stripped of all of its technology and assets, and three new X-Men joining the ranks: Dr. Reyes, Marrow (a morlock teenager), and Maggott. Meanwhile, half of the X-Men are trapped in outer space...in this storyline, Bishop is written out of the comic, Rogue and Gambit finally get it on, and at the end it is revealed that Gambit is responsible in part for the Mutant Massacre waaaaaaay back at the beginning of this explanation. Gambit is abandoned by the X-Men and left for dead in Antarctica.

(NOW ENTERING THE JOE KELLY/STEVE SEAGLE ERA)

The X-Men mostly just hang out and try to figure out what to do. Not a lot happens for a while, which is cool. A lot of issues go on with the X-Men just arguing and soul searching. They fight the Shadow King, temporarily wiping out most of the telepaths on earth, but that is later reversed. the era is cut short due to editorial interference, which comes down to the editorial mandate that nearly all of the characters currently in the comic MUST be suddently written out, and the team must now be Storm, Wolverine, Gambit, Rogue, Marrow, and Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Kitty who are available now that Excalibur has been cancelled. The next two years of stories suck ass...Xavier returns in a convoluted story, Joseph--a mysterious clone of Magneto from the Lodbell era--is killed, and the real Magneto attacks and for some reason is given the presidency of Genosha by the UN. In this story, Alan Davis starts as the writer/artist of the X-Men comics.

ALAN DAVIS ERA

Alan Davis goes through a bunch of boring retro stories, he takes the X-Men through outerspace, blah blah blah, and then his era ends with The Twelve storyline. This storyline exists primarily due to a dangling plotline from the early Lobdell era that was abandoned, but eternally speculated on by fanboys. In this story, Apocalypse tries to take over the world by capturing and absorbing the powers of 12 key mutants. This doesn't work out, and at the end Apocalypes merges with Cyclops, 'killing' Cyclops. Later on, in a miniseries, Cyclops gets back to normal, I don't know how. In this story, Wolverine is turned into Apocalypse's horseman Death and gets his metal back, but Wolvie ends up being plain old Wolverine again shortly afterwards.

NOW ENTERING CLAREMONT'S SECOND ERA.

Claremont's second era starts six months after the Twelve story in Marvel time. there are two teams: Gambit, Cable, Jean Grey, Storm and Beast, and Rogue, Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Kitty, Psylocke, Thunderbird (a new guy with an old name), and Dr. Reyes. Everything during this run is incomprehensible shit. Nothing of note occurs, it is mercy killed, and Claremont is given X-Treme X-Men to please him and his fans, and to get the shit characters out of the comic (though he does get Rogue, Storm, Kitty, and Gambit)

Then Lodbell comes back, kills Colossus and cures the Legacy virus, Kitty quits the X-Men, Cyclops comes back, the X-Men free Genosha, and Magneto is gutted by Wolverine.

then Casey and Morrison start, and you can just go buy those comics for yourself.
 
 
Jamieon
16:01 / 07.08.01
And, hopefully, that wraps that up.

Now let's talk about all things 'New'.

Please......
 
 
fluid_state
00:26 / 09.08.01
thanks, flux. you're a stronger man than I....
 
 
Jamieon
08:45 / 09.08.01
You mean "weirder", don't you?

How anyone could sit through the last ten years of X Men is beyond me.
 
  

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