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New X-Men #115

 
  

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Ronald Thomas Clontle
16:32 / 11.07.01
Wow! Has anyone else read it yet?

Every damn page was spot on... I don't want to spoil anything, but the parts at the end with Ms. Nova and the sentinels wiping out the entire island of Genosha within a few minutes were just too much... it's amazing how much is happening in such a short span of pages, and how the pacing is just right, nothing is rushed at all. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth, every page has something cool happening on it.

Did the scene with Jean at Prof X's bedside strike anyone else as full of sexual tension?
Does anyone else think Prof X is becoming Grant's alter ego, a la King Mob, or is it just the baldness thing?

Loved the Cyclops euthanasia bit too...
 
 
tracypanzer
16:56 / 11.07.01
Yeah, got it and read it quickly at lunch, need to pore over it obsessively some more when I get home, but my initial thoughts are: it's great, it was worth the wait, all is forgiven. He's going to do good things w/ this book. Hoping the next issue will come out on time, though.

Also, picked up the new Invisibles tpb, the 'entropy in the UK' storyline, which is of course fucking great.
 
 
CameronStewart
17:02 / 11.07.01
>>>Hoping the next issue will come out on time, though.<<<

Unlikely. Apparently Frank's having a right old time of it trying to get these done on schedule, so the next two may be a bit late also. After that, Ethan Van Scier, the contracted pinch-hitter for Quitely, will be drawing three issues in a row, instead of only one, to give Quitely the time to catch up on the third arc.

I have no idea what Van Scier's art looks like - I hope it's good...

Anyway, ish 115: some of the dialogue fell a little short of the usual Morrison standard, I think, but on the whole it's still pretty damn great.

I don't like the inks in the latter half of the book. The fill-in inker isn't matched with Quitely the way Townsend is. And even though she's coloured wrong, isn't that U-Go Girl from X-Force on the billboard on page 21?

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
17:05 / 11.07.01
quote:Originally posted by CameronStewart:
>>>Hoping the next issue will come out on time, though.<<<

Unlikely. Apparently Frank's having a right old time of it trying to get these done on schedule, so the next two may be a bit late also. After that, Ethan Van Scier, the contracted pinch-hitter for Quitely, will be drawing three issues in a row, instead of only one, to give Quitely the time to catch up on the third arc.

I have no idea what Van Scier's art looks like - I hope it's good...

Anyway, ish 115: some of the dialogue fell a little short of the usual Morrison standard, I think, but on the whole another rockin' comic. Must read again.[/LIST]


Well, I'm glad that they are breaking up the artist stints so that one artist draws a complete story. I'd rather that than have fill ins come in the middle of one...it ruins the cohesiveness.

Van Scriver's stuff is like some kind of weird cross between George Perez, Brian Bolland, and Jim Lee, if that makes sense.
 
 
Ray Fawkes
18:12 / 11.07.01
Yep, it's U-Go Girl. One of the students in Genosha is also wearing a Doop t-shirt. Looks like the X-books are quietly supporting one another.

I liked this chapter, overall, but I have to admit squirming a bit at Cyclops' "mercy killing". It didn't strike me as fitting with the rest of his boy-scout image. I guess Morrison's looking to move away from that, but it was one of the traits I found most interesting about Scott.
 
 
Ellis
18:30 / 11.07.01
Charles X. once admitted just prior to the Onslaught story (remember that? wasn't it great??) that had loved Jean for ages, but had buried it deep down inside.

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Ellis ]
 
 
THX-1138
00:41 / 12.07.01
The BWS cover. Anyone got that one? What's it look like? Will I actually buy both covers? Will I outgrow my fanboyishness?
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
03:50 / 12.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ray Fawkes:
Yep, it's U-Go Girl.

where's U-Go Girl?


I liked this chapter, overall, but I have to admit squirming a bit at Cyclops' "mercy killing". It didn't strike me as fitting with the rest of his boy-scout image. I guess Morrison's looking to move away from that, but it was one of the traits I found most interesting about Scott.



I don't know, I thought it was in character...he did it out of compassion and mercy, and was pretty spiritual/religious about it. It seemed right. Having read XMen for so long, it feels nice to have the characters 'act' the way they should, according to history and basic premise...everything that the core characters have been saying and doing rings very true to me. Well, Jean is still a bit vague...Grant hasn't quite made her terribly interesting yet. That one panel of Emma Frost was spot-on, I thought...
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
03:58 / 12.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
Charles X. once admitted just prior to the Onslaught story (remember that? wasn't it great??) that had loved Jean for ages, but had buried it deep down inside.
]


Oh yeah, I know that...I thought it was Jean who seemed somewhat sexual in that scene...her body language seemed that way, and she's tending to Xavier who's shirtless and buff...

I'm either reading too much into it, or Grant is setting her up as the all-purpose sex goddess of the X-Men.


Ah....here's a sex/x-men question...in the issue, Beast is sending an email to Trish Tilby, his on and off girlfriend. Now, isn't it fucking weird that a normal human woman would have romantic interest in a man who physically is, well, a beast? Even before his transformation, a woman having sex with him is bordering on bestiality.... Now, I'm guessing that being a giant lion-bear thing would mean an enormous sex drive, right? But there isn't anything around that's very appropriate for him to be having sex with, yes? A human having sex with him is bordering on bestiality, and him having sex with animals is just the same...

I wonder if Grant will touch on this...I imagine that he will in some way.

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Clontle ]
 
 
Tom Coates
07:59 / 12.07.01
But there are a lot of mutants for whom bodily changes of some kind of another marks them out as different. Just because he is more OBVIOUSLY different, doesn't stop him being essentially human.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
12:12 / 12.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
But there are a lot of mutants for whom bodily changes of some kind of another marks them out as different. Just because he is more OBVIOUSLY different, doesn't stop him being essentially human.


Oh, I'm not denying him his humanity, but I'm looking at this from Trish's angle...isn't it a bit odd for her to be going with a giant teddy bear? Aren't there a lot of questions that pop up about her psychological motivation? Sure, Hank is a nice friendly genius, but he's still a lion-bear thingy...he's got the body of an animal.

So you're saying that a human woman having sex with The Beast wouldn't be bestiality because he is essentially a human? Fair enough...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:17 / 12.07.01
Maybe that's why Beast is crying on the cover of #117: Trish replies to his e-mail saying "Welcome to Dumpsville, Population: You."
 
 
Jamieon
12:18 / 12.07.01
quote: Well, I'm glad that they are breaking up the artist stints so that one artist draws a complete story.

But the next story arc is only two issues long. So that scuppers that idea, then.

quote: I liked this chapter, overall, but I have to admit squirming a bit at Cyclops' "mercy killing". It didn't strike me as fitting with the rest of his boy-scout image. I guess Morrison's looking to move away from that, but it was one of the traits I found most interesting about Scott.


I'm with Clontle. And, I would add: Grant's run? It's the "X Men as grown ups"; and Scott made an "adult" decision.

Loved this issue, but, as Cameron points out, some of the art is a little....... well, not lame, but... ummm, slightly "off". Example: It's really cool when you suss that it's a flying fist crashing through the top floor of that tower in Genosha. But it takes a few rereads before you distinguish it as such.

And, as Cameron also points out, this is probably the fault of the inker (and, perhaps, the colourist?).

Quitely, however, is fantastic - he realizes, so effortlessly, all the little background details Grant loads his script with.

gud stuf i luykd:

1. Master Mold, vast, mindless, motionless God of death, uncomfortably hollow inside.

2. "Nest"? Urrghh. Nasty, evil bug things. And did you see the little ones?

3. "You know what I like most about you, Summers? Your icy calm lunacy under pressure."

Yes. It's about time a comics writer reflected on the "incredibley calm and well adjusted" lunacy of some of the more anal superheroes.....
Yeah, everyone knows Wolvie's nuts, but, y'know that's just soooo obvious. It's all: "Look at him, he goes into 'beserker rages', and he's got claws.... he must be mad as a loon!"; not "Check out the insane bastard, all calm and composed while a hundred bug Sentlinels try to kill him, buzzing like chainsaws!"

3. I have a thing for auto destruct buttons and ejector seats.

4. "Kid...! Any mutant talents we can use?"

"I got three faces, mate, and they all look like pigs."

5. Sentinel taking shape inside the mold, tiny builders welding its armour; a tank (as opposed to the guns assimilated by the smaller machines) incorporated to serve as its "face".

6. Head putty.

7. Manowar terminating Piggy. There's something so horrible about those empty "helmets".

8. "Bacon?"

9. The vacant seats. The nightmare classroom.

10. Flying fist crashing through tower.

11. Sentinels, having adapted en route, are now the size of...... eh? what? A city? Fuck me. Putting out Genosha's lights once and for all.......................

Give me more now and I will suck.
 
 
tracypanzer
12:25 / 12.07.01
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was that Magneto in that tower that got all smashed/blowed up near the end?
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
12:31 / 12.07.01
quote:Originally posted by tracypanzer:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was that Magneto in that tower that got all smashed/blowed up near the end?


Yes, it was. This is the second time Magneto has died within three issues.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:33 / 12.07.01
Looks like him. Very nice touch: it's so brutally throwaway, yet it nods to all the conventions in just the right kind of knowing way... "Look, he's still alive! Whoops, we just dropped a Sentinel on him! Look, no body..."
 
 
Ray Fawkes
13:01 / 12.07.01
quote:It's the "X Men as grown ups"; and Scott made an "adult" decision.

Quick question: why is the choice to kill a suffering, dying man quickly and (relatively) painlessly any more "adult" than to attempt to save him?
 
 
Tom Coates
13:24 / 12.07.01
I suppose the logical answer is that futile actions based upon teenage idealism that will result in more pain and horror for someone are less adult than difficult decisions to make which cease that suffering. But that all depends on whether or not there was no chance to save him. I'd have believed it more if they'd put more emphasis on his near fatal condition. And answer me this question - how come incredibly high-tech sentinels are incapable of just KILLING him, when a bullet or an electric chair (hardly cutting-edge) wouldn't have had any trouble.
 
 
Jamieon
13:35 / 12.07.01
I don't know, I just look at it this way: The "boy" scout? He'd have frozen - the "preciousness of life" and all that would've stilled his hand. This guy? He takes full charge and responsibility for his actions, and, confidently and decisively, makes up his mind.........

It's not the euthanasia that's "adult", it's the fact that Scott ndecides to take this action, unimpeded by some overbearing, big daddy father substitute, moral imperatives breathing down his neck. The "New" Cyclops is accountable only to himself (and "the dream", which is as much a part of him as his sexy quiff).

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Jamieon
13:44 / 12.07.01
Oh yeah, and what Tom said. Which was sort've the same thing I said about "big Daddy moral imperatives" etc.

I shut mouth now.

Tom, the reason the Sentinel didn't kill Ugly John with one blast of its evil gunhead?

Drama.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:49 / 12.07.01
>>>It's really cool when you suss that it's a flying fist crashing through the top floor of that tower in Genosha. But it takes a few rereads before you distinguish it as such.

And, as Cameron also points out, this is probably the fault of the inker <<<

Actually, the giant fist read perfectly clearly to me. I'm referring to the faces and such (particularly Ms. Nova and Wolverine). Tim Townsend seems to be an ideal inker for Quitely - it looks just like Quitely inking himself. The fill-in inker for the second half of the book, while clearly competent, isn't suitably matched, I don't think - he, for lack of a better way of expressing it, "cleans up" the art a bit too much for my liking. It looks like a different artist aping Frank's style.

I'm just being picky, really. I just hope that Townsend remains the main inker and they don't need a fill-in too often.
 
 
Ellis
13:59 / 12.07.01
I enjoyed it immensely.

I thought that was Magento but wasn't sure...

Did anyone see any other well known mutants bite the dust?

What happened in the classroom? I thought everyone else was teleported out but in the next page you see their trainers and such being blasted to pieces.


Cool stuff:
Those new "wild" sentinels
Xaviers explanation for the gun.
And the last page... classic.
The destruction of Genosha

I can't wait until the next issue now; will Grant pull a deux ex machina stunt or will he simply kill all the mutants?

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Ellis ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
15:04 / 12.07.01

Did anyone see any other well known mutants bite the dust?


um, off the top of my head, no, but there were loads of second rate X-characters on Genosha for the past few years of comics. Wiping out Genosha reminded me of in Keith Giffen's early 90s Legion of Super Heroes when after having the majority of the population of Earth wiped out by war, disease, and a facsist alien government, Earth wins its freedom, and is then blown up weeks later. Those poor Genoshans never could catch a lucky break...

I'm glad that Genosha is finally gone, because all the writers fucked with that place over and over again, and though the constant political upheaval rang somewhat true, it really strayed from what it originally was: an apartheid/slavery allegory.


What happened in the classroom? I thought everyone else was teleported out but in the next page you see their trainers and such being blasted to pieces.

I think that part when everyone disappears was part of that young clairvoyant's dream.


I can't wait until the next issue now; will Grant pull a deux ex machina stunt or will he simply kill all the mutants?


I think it's pretty clear those mutants (save for Magneto, who will inevitably return) are gone for good.

It's nice, they haven't had anything serious like this happen since Claremont killed the Morlocks in the 80s. I think this is Grant's way of showing that the stakes in his stories are higher.


Also, re: Cyclops euthanasia....well, Wolverine kinda asked him to it, didn't he?
It was...peer pressure!

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Clontle ]
 
 
tracypanzer
15:22 / 12.07.01
Genosha. Gene. Duh, I just got that.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
15:46 / 12.07.01
I loved the issue, for all the reasons people have listed above.

I want the next one.

Now!
 
 
Ray Fawkes
17:56 / 12.07.01
Hmm...while I can see the point of Cyclops' rather grown-up lack of hesitation (especially in the face of a potentially futile attempt), and I can understand why a lot of people are glad to see it, it still seems a little disturbing to me. I guess because it seems to indicate a shift in feel for the X-Men - away from heroes, and more towards warriors.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
19:30 / 12.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ray Fawkes:
it, it still seems a little disturbing to me. I guess because it seems to indicate a shift in feel for the X-Men - away from heroes, and more towards warriors.



Really, you think so? I think that Grant is portraying them more as intellectual types who have to do what they have to do on missions...I think they are being portrayed as LESS violent characters than they have been for the past decade and a half. Should I remind you about Cable, Gambit, Bishop, et al?
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:39 / 12.07.01
whell . . . I've waited some 10 years for X-men like this

Cyclops:
While surprising, perfectly so, it totally seemed well in charactor. Especially if you take into account the recient death/rebirth of the charactor as well as the "fusion" with Apocolypse . . . having survived that he's obviously more self possessed.

Also consider the lack of Thought balloons, any internal agonising was kept to himself.

Ugly Jon was obviously suffering . . . His knee being shot out is enough to cause shock and if not tended (why would Sentitials bother) the blood loss alone would be deadly.

Why the Sentinial didn't just Fry Ugly Jon was because of Cyclops IMO. I figure he Blasted it just as it was warming up to FRY him . ..

"Call me Cyclops when we're ona mission, it keeps things strait."

Could this be Grants tip of the hat to new readers as well as continuity? AND an allusion to his MeMePlex theories. Scott Summers feels emotions . . . CYCLOPS is single trak Warrior with tunnel vision. His vision . .. vistory.

Magneto of course!!!

Didn't Trish originally meet Hank Macoy durring a time when he was fur-less . . (Circa X-factor 5-20ish?)

Emma Frost leave her academy in Mass. for a better offer in Genosha?

i think i missed the flying fist . . .

But what's up with ms. Nova, reading DNA.

Might this be the return of Shadow King?
 
 
Ray Fawkes
09:05 / 13.07.01
quote:I think they are being portrayed as LESS violent characters than they have been for the past decade and a half. Should I remind you about Cable, Gambit, Bishop, et al?

That's a very interesting point. I suppose the "mercy killing" of Ugly John is just that much more stark in Grant's well-constructed context (as opposed to the willy-nilly no-consequence violence in the extra cartoony X-Men of the last ten years).
 
 
Mr Tricks
09:23 / 13.07.01
PS:

the BWS cover was quite nice as well, in it's own way even better than Wolvie.

Cyclops forcing his way through South American Rainforest . . . in the shadow of a Sentinial!!!


eeeewwwwww!!!
 
 
THX-1138
09:23 / 13.07.01
I ended up buying both covers. BWS stays unread. Lovely cover, I hadn't seen it until I got to the comic shop, and the great folks there had put it (not the Quitely cover) in my hold. Fantastic issue.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
09:23 / 13.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ray Fawkes:
Hmm...while I can see the point of Cyclops' rather grown-up lack of hesitation (especially in the face of a potentially futile attempt), and I can understand why a lot of people are glad to see it, it still seems a little disturbing to me. I guess because it seems to indicate a shift in feel for the X-Men - away from heroes, and more towards warriors.


I think it's also supposed to represent that Cyclops' recent merger with Apocalypse has changed him in subtle ways. Morrison said that that's something he really wanted to play with.
 
 
Jamieon
09:23 / 13.07.01
quote:That's a very interesting point. I suppose the "mercy killing" of Ugly John is just that much more stark in Grant's well-constructed context (as opposed to the willy-nilly no-consequence violence in the extra cartoony X-Men of the last ten years).

Absolutely.
 
 
King Mob
03:32 / 18.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Ray Fawkes:


Quick question: why is the choice to kill a suffering, dying man quickly and (relatively) painlessly any more "adult" than to attempt to save him?


Go read Animal Man #26.

questions:

1) that was magneto? are we sure? and we seem to think he will definitely be back? is he no longer a major villain in the comic?

2) what the fuck is/was Genosha, looks like it should be near New Zealand? why is this the most mutant populated place?

3) cyclops merged with apocalpse? what?

Other comments:

i love the villain's 12 monkeys-esk tv ball.

if that goth looking chick in Frost's class survived she might turn into the Crazy Jane of this comic.

i definitely get the feeling that this comic like MARVEL BOY before would make a hell of a lot more sense if i knew more about MARVEL.
 
 
Jamieon
03:32 / 18.07.01
Answers:

1) As sure as one can be. For starters, Magneto's the President of Genosha (as Emma Frost kindly informs us), so it makes sense that he'd live at the top of some vast, luxurious tower. And, secondly, why bother showing us some bloke getting trashed if he's not someone important? Finally, it just looks like him.

2) Genosha is mutantsville, and (as I gleaned from Hank's email to Trish, and Emma's references to "radioactive dog dirt" etc), it's recently been in a state of war. I believe Genosha started out as some kind of apartheid state, where mutants worked as slaves...blah, blah. But some of the lovely geek boys round here could probably tell you more....

3) Don't worry about this'n. I don't know anything about any "merging with Apocalypse", but that hasn't ruined my enjoyment of the comic.

Just wondering if anyone's noticed the skeletons caught in the mastermold's "bloodstream"? This Mastermold isn't above using anything to sustain itself and it's deadly creations. "Wild" and adaptable indeed.

There's some real horrorshow shit going down in this comic.

[ 18-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
  

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