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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #115

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No star here laces

10:00 / 18.07.01

Xmen and the Authority are the things I lust for in my box each month. What is going on? When did the superhero titles get so much better than the other stuff?

Jamieon

10:31 / 18.07.01

Since the best Vertigo writers all decided to start doing superhero stuff I suppose.

But back to those skeletons.........

Ellis

11:49 / 18.07.01

*raises hand*

Oh oh oh! I saw the skeletons!

[about a year ago the only comics i bought were Vertigo (Preacher, Invisibles, Transmet etc), now the only Vertigo comic I buy is Transmet, and thats finishing soon... Oh dear.]

Jamieon

12:06 / 18.07.01

What the fark are DC gonna do now? All the good writers work for the competition.

Don't you just think Morrison and Quitely work impossibly well together? Quitely's panels are so cinematic, and they contain so much detail.... I love this comic.

Ellis

12:11 / 18.07.01

And I can't believe DC is NOT capitalising on Morrisons popularity by releasing Flex Mentallo, Doom Patrol and Animal Man trades...

I guess DC will have to find some hot new writers to write for them.

Either that or prostitute Sandman some more.
What next? Sandman snow globes?

[ 18-07-2001: Message edited by: Ellis ]

Jamieon

12:19 / 18.07.01

What? Mentallo Trades?

What happened to all that Charles Atlas business? Where did you read about this?

Give! Give now!

Ellis

12:23 / 18.07.01

Heh. Calm down. Typo. See above. Relax.

12:57 / 18.07.01

I remember Genosha from the first time around. Basically it was a place where people undertook mandatory mutant testing at puberty, and if they were mutants they were 'processed' - bonded into skin suits, made obedient and suggestible and given a number. They then worked as essentially slave labour. The whole thing got a bit difficult when the leader of the mutant processing line discovered some kind of gene in his own son (or his son's girlfriend, I can't remember which ). The X-men became involved the struggle at that point.

Much later, Magneto strides in, takes over the country from the midst of civil war, and declares it a mutant safe-haven.

I always really liked this idea and wondered why no one had never done it before - it would have been even cooler if it hadn't been portrayed as some fundamentalist country. Never liked that. Very annoying.[/LIST]

Ellis

13:02 / 18.07.01

But that was always the problem with X Men wasn't it, some great concepts but utterly dismal execution.

Who remembers The Legacy Virus?

Jamieon

14:11 / 18.07.01

Well, I guess we know why DC haven't cashed in on Mentallo.....

Ronald Thomas Clontle

15:29 / 18.07.01

quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
I remember Genosha from the first time around. Basically it was a place where people undertook mandatory mutant testing at puberty, and if they were mutants they were 'processed' - bonded into skin suits, made obedient and suggestible and given a number. They then worked as essentially slave labour. The whole thing got a bit difficult when the leader of the mutant processing line discovered some kind of gene in his own son (or his son's girlfriend, I can't remember which ). The X-men became involved the struggle at that point.

Much later, Magneto strides in, takes over the country from the midst of civil war, and declares it a mutant safe-haven.

.[/LIST]

Okay, I'll fill in the rest...

After the initial Genosha storyline, a storyline called the X-Tinction Agenda occurs in which the Genoshans gain their freedom, but the economy collapses. The place becomes more or less a third world country, especially after the Legacy Virus starts wiping out its mutant population. Later, Magneto convinces the UN to give Genosha to him...he rebuilds it as a haven for mutants all over the world, which is why it is now the mutant capitol of the world. Then Ms. Nova and her sentinels wiped them all out.

Jamieon

15:36 / 18.07.01

But Clont, old boy, you didn't actually read these comics did you?

Were they good?

Who wrote them?

Are they written in the inimitable "Marvel Style"?

Ronald Thomas Clontle

15:54 / 18.07.01

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamieon:
But Clont, old boy, you didn't actually read these comics did you?

Well, most of them anyway. I've read or at least scanned every issue of X-Men and Uncanny X-Men published since 85 or so. It's true. I started out on comics through the X-Men, so I always have this sentimental loyalty to keep tabs on what is going on, even if it sucks beyond all imagination. Don't ask me why.

Were they good? Who wrote them?

On occasion. The first Genosha storyline Tom outlined was pretty good, typical of Claremont's best work. (You have to be careful with him, cos he can turn out pretty good stuff or the worst dross you'll ever find). The X-Tinction Agenda had its moments, but was weak. All Genosha-related stories during the Scott Lobdell era sucked horribly...but it wasn't Scott's fault, as those stories for the most part took place in other X-related comics and not his. The story where Magneto takes over Genosha was by Alan Davis, but amazingly enough, sucked entirely. All of Alan Davis' X-Men run was terrible retro trash.

Trust me, though: if you're into Grant's X-Men, absolutely zero of what came before him will be of interest to you, guaranteed.

19:37 / 18.07.01

the x-tinxtion adgenda.... was pre-Image style Jim Lee stuff... some parts where OK...other parts sUCKED!!!

Magneto's Coupe was actually durring the Joe Kelly/ Steve Segal run... started interesting & went BLAAA...

Same with Davis's stuff... I always loved his art... but that was the Most "editorially Driven" stuff written.

This was Where Cyclops merges with Apocilypse so as to prevent Him from merging with X-Man nate Grey & become MASTER OF SPACE/TIME!!!

it was almost Okay . . .

originally intended to be a nobel sacrafice ala Phoenix's suicide way back in UNCANNY 137. But the mini series poped up to bring him back like the following month... yeah, nothing to really worry about.

I'm sure GM can work the whole history into one word balloon and have it make more sence than the whole story line . . . if he chose to.

19:39 / 18.07.01

P.S:

a look on the marvel map would place Genosha just off the east coast of Africa... closer to Madascar...

oh and i too also got my start on Comics with X-men... so there's that loyalty that demands I "check-up" on these charactors... no matter what.

Until just now it's been like seeing a childhood friend going through a bunch of bizarre identity crisisess. Embarassing themself by trying out a bunch of "personality styles" going through a buch of "phases" on the quest of finding-themself...

errr . . . does that make any sence???

[ 18-07-2001: Message edited by: PATricky ]

Ellis

19:51 / 18.07.01

U have a map of Marvel World?

What was the story set after Magneto's mind was wiped, with the Avengers in as well?

Fabien Cortez was in control of Genosha then, no?

The Packard Goose

09:29 / 19.07.01

Ellis--
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I believe that was an anniversary crossover (X-Men's 30th and Avengers 25th? I don't recall what the numbers were) in which Fabian Cortez kidnapped Magneto's granddaughter (Luna, child of Quicksilver and Crystal) and used the poor tyke in an attempt to. . .that's right, Pinky. . .take over the world.
This was another p.o.s. storyline, and I would advise us all to never speak of it again.
Please?

The Packard Goose

09:52 / 19.07.01

Regarding NewXmen. . .
Anyone else pick up on the "threesomes" throughout this latest issue?
Wolverine, Ugly John, Cyclops///Master Mold, Trask, Nova///Beast, Jean, Xavier. Seems like every "scene" in this ish contains three personalities engaging in some form of competition for some form of dominance.
Haven't thought it all through yet, but:
--In the X-wing we have Logan in the backseat, growling at Ugly John to shut up and teasing Cyke about being a lunatic. In Freudian terms, Id? Ugly John is literally looking in three directions at the same time, constantly panicking, a mutant with no useful powers, a sheep who just wants to be told what to do and where to go in order to get a Fosters and grow old. Ego? Cyclops is in the driver's seat, giving the orders, taking no shit. Super-ego?
--Back at Xavier's pad, we have the Beast, whose name calls to (my) mind the devil (as in Revelations, Iron Maiden, 666, etc.), and who is writing (tempting. . .sorry, I mean attempting to explain knowledge of good and evil) to a human woman while simultaneously keeping an eye on Cyke and Logan. When trouble is spotted, the Beast runs to his master, Xavier, the Creator of this team/reality tunnel, and a pretty good God as Father character (especially when he's doing the Cerebra thang). And Xavier is being tended by Jean, or Phoenix, whose only concern (a la Magdelene in JC Superstar) is the guru/messiah's well-being.

I'd go on, but I'm interested in what the rest of you think. Anybody else spot these trinities? Anybody else got any thoughts on what Grant's doing in using these?

Ronald Thomas Clontle

09:52 / 19.07.01

Packard Goose: that is a fascination observation. I don't have anything to add other than, wow, that's a clever interpretation.

Pat Tricky: Yeah, I know what yr talking about. The 'friend going through personality crises' analogy rings true to me. One thing: you are incorrect about Magneto getting Genosha during Joe and Steve's run. That occurred at the end of "Magneto War", which was the first storyline by Alan Davis, immediately following Joe and Steve's departure. Joe Kelly scripted the prelude to that story, but it was his final issue. I believe Terry Kavanagh scripted all of Davis's issues. I only remember this clearly because I was at my parent's place this morning looking through old comics, and I was looking at those issues.

I reread the first 6 or 7 issues of Joe Kelly's run before the editorial staff started fucking him and Steve Seagle over...Joe had some damn good things going on. I liked how he just had the characters interacting in a straight soap opera style with little to no supervillians or threats, just a lot of X-Men infighting. He had good dialogue and characterization too. I wish that they had let him and Seagle do what they had wanted: Seagle was going to take the popular characters and have them travel the world doing more superhero oriented work following Cyclops 'new dream', whatever that may have been. and Joe Kelly would have had Beast hanging around the mansion with the newer characters at that time: Cannonball, Marrow, Maggott, Dr. Reyes, Joseph, etc.

I always felt that the constant threat of supervillians was one of the lamest aspects of superhero comics. Why does there always have to be some big threat going on? That's not the way the real world works. Sometimes it can go a long time between big bad things happening, you know?

Jamieon

09:52 / 19.07.01

Chatting on the phone to my bruv last night, he pointed out that the super sentinels, are, for want of a better phrase, "on the Godzilla tip".

Can't believe I didn't notice that before.

Island on the south seas (or may as well be, by the look of it), being totalled by giant monsters (straight out of the mutant collective unconscious), raining fire from above.

I'm sure everyone else made this connection.

Why for is Janieon la penuce?

14:40 / 19.07.01

Packard Goose:

I like your interpretation. Damn, I gotta go reread the last two issues and look for subtle metaphors now.

20:27 / 19.07.01

Yeah... Goose,

nice observation. I definately get the Mutants-as-New-Gods . . .feel from GM writting. Especially if he ties up the Human extinction relating to Mutants' mutating (ala Beast).

knowledge of Good/Evil... I like that.

quote:
I reread the first 6 or 7 issues of Joe Kelly's run before the editorial staff started fucking him and Steve Seagle over...Joe had some damn good things going on. I liked how he just had the characters interacting in a straight soap opera style with little to no supervillians or threats, just a lot of X-Men infighting. He had good dialogue and characterization too. I wish that they had let him and Seagle do what they had wanted: Seagle was going to take the popular characters and have them travel the world doing more superhero oriented work following Cyclops 'new dream', whatever that may have been. and Joe Kelly would have had Beast hanging around the mansion with the newer characters at that time: Cannonball, Marrow, Maggott, Dr. Reyes, Joseph, etc.

yeah Joe had it going ON!!! too bad it was such a short Run. Segal's run mostly annoyed me... His plan for Scott's "dream" was something of a "mutant underground railroad." Sounded vaguely like how Genosha turned out.

Sentinals as Godzilla... They seemed also like Giant BUGS Mothra?(outer church parallel?)

Ronald Thomas Clontle

09:41 / 20.07.01

yeah Joe had it going ON!!! too bad it was such a short Run. Segal's run mostly annoyed me... His plan for Scott's "dream" was something of a "mutant underground railroad." Sounded vaguely like how Genosha turned out.

Ah, the 'mutant underground railroad' thing isn't that great of an idea. hm.

I didn't really enjoy Seagle's run either. I don't care for his writing style..a little too much purple prose, kinda Claremont-esque. The only thing he did that I liked was the subplot with Rogue trying to get rid of her powers. I normally really like Chris Bachalo, but his X-Men/Gen X stuff was so muddled and over-designed that it wasn't very fun. I loved his work on Shade, The Changing Man and Death, though. He drew a nice Kitty Pryde, though.

I don't understand why they go through the trouble of having two X-Men writers, and having one be great and one be conspicuously weaker. Morrison and Kelly stomp all over Casey and Seagle...

my fanboy wish: how about replacing Casey/Garney with Peter Milligan/Art Adams? Please?

20:42 / 20.07.01

Not Art Adams though... he's done his x-men time...

If we're wishing... how about Adam Hughs... or what's his face, Kevin Magwire.

Or Gary Frank...

Or Sean Phillips!!!

Milligan would rock scripting more X-men... but for that mater.. why don't we just give Grant 2 x-books to write!!!

He was able to pull Invisibles & JLA out of his head simultaneously!!!!

Ronald Thomas Clontle

09:59 / 21.07.01

I wouldn't think Morrison would overtax himself doing two X-Men comics so much as I think it would make him burn out on writing them quicker. I think Milligan is good enough and enough like Morrison to make both comics 'feel' the same but be different.

I just thought of someone who would be far better than Adams or anyone you just mentioned (though you had some good ones):
Richard Case. Please! Case and Milligan (or Case and Morrison) together again! Make it so!

Jamieon

13:46 / 21.07.01

But I prefer Quitely and Morrison.

uncle retrospective

07:08 / 23.07.01

quote:Originally posted by Jamieon:
But I prefer Quitely and Morrison.

I have to be the only person in the world who dosen't like Quitely. His backgrounds are fantastic but I hate the way he dreaws people, everyone just looks distorted and fat.

Get Richard Case! Where's Mark Buckingham these days either?

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:16 / 23.07.01

quote:Originally posted by uncle retrospective:
Where's Mark Buckingham these days either?

Drawing a Spiderman comic, funnily enough... It's not the one the Babylon 5 guy writes, it's the other one.

yawn - thing's buddy

10:59 / 23.07.01

I'm finding all these new mutants a wee bit Strontium Doggish.

I'm hoping Grant killed off the character and the meme.

if not, might as well get ole Ezquerra in to draw the fucker.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

12:34 / 23.07.01

So what is Richard Case doing lately?

16:10 / 23.07.01

quote:Originally posted by uncle retrospective:

I have to be the only person in the world who dosen't like Quitely. His backgrounds are fantastic but I hate the way he dreaws people, everyone just looks distorted and fat.

Actually, a friend of mine hates Quitely's art so much he's started an anti-Quitely league. I've tried talking to him, but it don't work.

22:37 / 24.07.01

Case's drawing that Name's of Magic series... Well Age of Magic now!!!

Kind of cooled off on his art... hasn't been grabbing me lately!!!

How about the dude from OUTLAW NATION!!!

or even Bachalo... just to see him working with Milligan again!!!

Or better yet!!! Duncan Fregredo!!!

01:07 / 25.07.01

>>>a friend of mine hates Quitely's art so much he's started an anti-Quitely League<<<

That's a tad irrational, don't you think? Not to mention indicative of a surplus of free time?

Quitely draws ugly people, to be sure, but - and I'd even go so far as to say that this is without justifiable debate - he's one of the finest storytellers in the business. The beautifully cinematic page layouts and impeccable sense of pacing, the wealth of visual information he packs into the backgrounds, the wonderfully subtle body language with which he imbues his characters - he's an artist at the very top of his game and it really gets my back up when people say he "sucks." There's more to comics illustration than making faces look pretty.

06:35 / 25.07.01

If Adam Hughes did the X Men all you would get is a cover every month. That reminds me... anyone else love Barry Windsor-Smith's little run? I'd like to see some X Men by the guy that drew The Kindly Ones (can't remember his name though).

Our Lady of The Two Towers

08:11 / 25.07.01

Marc Hempel wasn't it?

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