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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Battlestar Galactica- 'The Face of the Enemy' and Season 4.5 (SPOILERS!)

  
  

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Evil Scientist
11:04 / 18.02.09
Fanwanking here but it's possible that proto-Centurian robots were in development prior to the exodus of the 13th Tribe. Both civilisations spin off in different technological directions (humans appear to have developed ftl drives where the 13th colony did not) but the Final Five presume that the development of AI in the 12 Colonies will follow a similar arc to their own. Or if not then they want to at least warn the humans that, even if they haven't started developing Mechanical Intelligence yet, they'd best treat it right when they do.

I loved that moment at the start of the episode where Ellen talks to the Cylon and it responds in a gentle manner (even though Cavil's Centurions are the "lobotomised" versions). I presume the Cylon that escorts Boomer and Ellen to the Raptor is the same one, although there's no real evidence there.
 
 
Dead Megatron
12:19 / 18.02.09
I actually whished they took the Centurion with them. Imagine the reaction of the fleet people when the hatch open and out came a chromejob...

I imagine the similarity in the ancient centurions and the modern centurion is that the show needed the reveal that the earthlings were cylon to have a visual impact on the viewer. Only Six and Baltar saying "the test results are indidsputable: all skeletons were cylon" would have worked for the plot, but there would be no diging helmets from the sand, would it?

In-plot-wise, I guess you can imagine that there were some sort of design convergence due to similar cultural and technological traits. The nihilistic "history repeats itself over and over" theme seems to have become quite central in these final episodes, and that convergence would point that out in a way that would be very dispairing for the characters to eventually realize. And, considering recent raise in suicide and mutiny rate, I imagine it did.

The "God did it" hypothesis also still on the table
 
 
Spaniel
14:07 / 18.02.09
I understand why the choice was made, put simply it ties things up.

I agree that we have been primed by all that "the cycle repeats itself" stuff to accept the idea on an instinctive level, but to actually explain it in plot terms... well that's trickier, and at this point would seem to demand resorting to fanwankery.

Not that I have much of problem with that, just sayin' is all.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:17 / 18.02.09
It's certainly convoluted and preposterous, which is why I had to write it all out for myself and see... I think the gist is "humans creating artificial life is the next step and it's a bad one, just keeping making babies the normal way, mmmk?"
 
 
Spaniel
17:00 / 18.02.09
Hah, yeah

Thanks for that synopsis, by the way. Really helped me get things straight
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:16 / 18.02.09
I'm really confused about the Kobol part though. I really have no idea what came first, the chicken or the computer chip, Skinjob, Human, Robot, Lord, I'm hoping the answer to that is wrapped up in the answer to the Kara questions.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:32 / 18.02.09
The sad thing is, the Accomplice and I came up with a more compelling and structured storyline for BSG, using most of the elements they've set up so far -- including ones that they've apparently forgotten about, like the imaginary Six & Baltar -- in about twenty minutes while (a) drunk and (b) doing the dishes. Even if you ignore some of the creepy undercurrents the show has picked up along the way, I can only imagine their plotting sessions revolve around bottles of vodka and Russian Roulette. Perhaps they just shuffle the cards at random, which is why IN THIS EPISODE KARA ACTS CRAZY keeps coming up so often.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
22:44 / 18.02.09
Well, actually, if you have ever checked out the podcasts, Ron Moore is partial to Scotch... so there might be something to your theory.
 
 
Dead Megatron
15:46 / 28.02.09
So... now Kara is also seeing invisible people who give her clues and instructions too? And that person turns out to be her dead father? Who IMHO might be Cylon David the Seven?

And it turns out Helen's escape was a ploy by Cavil to plant Boomer back in Galactica and snatch Hera away. Now I wonder how deeply that self-loathing human-shaped machine will fuck up on the plans of the Misterious Manipulator who taps into little children's artistic tastes to convey messages. Perhaps my desires for one more big space battle to please the space opera fanboy in me might still be fulfilled.

I can't possible imagine how they're going to disentangle all this in just 3+ hours of show left.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
13:11 / 02.03.09
Gah! Spoiler much?

Won't be shown in the UK until tomorrow..

Boo, DM. Boo.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:14 / 02.03.09
There is a very large all caps SPOILERS in the topic title.
 
 
Ron Stoppable
13:17 / 02.03.09
Ah. Yes. Yes there is.

Sorry DM; my dumbass error.
 
 
Dead Megatron
13:29 / 02.03.09
I apologise to you AND accept your apologies, Ron. At least now you'll be able to connect the dots without having to watch the episode twice, like I did.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:51 / 04.03.09
I do so love the relentless bleak of BSG but it does make watching it a little bit of a slog sometimes. This episode being a case in point.

It's the fatbeard in me I know but I would have loved for the piano player to be in shadow for most of the episode and being revealed as Dirk Benedict in the final shots.

I'm a simple creature, leave me alone.

Pretty obvious which song Starbuck was going to be playing but I enjoyed the reaction of the Five as it played out.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:51 / 19.03.09
Not that BSG is really ending on a high note (spotty as this 'truth'-revealing season has been), but HOLY SHIT tomorrow night is the last episode ever! It's kind of a strange place going into it... one hopes that the Hera and Starbuck plotlines pay off into a good and momentous enough finale. The intro part of the finale last week was a bit tame on the whole (how many more drinks can the Admiral pour for himself anyway?).

The Watchtower song finale had me pretty pumped for this season, but i've mostly been let down for where these revelations have led and the sheer obviousness of how unplanned most of the story has been.
 
 
Mistoffelees
21:11 / 19.03.09
I´ll watch it with low expectations and hope that I´ll be pleasantly surprised after all. I´m not holding my breath for everything to be explained, there is just too much left open for only a double episode finale, where they also have to squeeze in a Big Space Battle and cool goodbye scenes for all the characters.

The one thing I do want to see explained is Head Six.
 
 
Dead Megatron
23:37 / 19.03.09
The explanation for Head Six is probably the explanation for everything.

I think the final punchline is that God manipulated it all because he wanted to lead human/cylon-kind to extinction, in order to reboot it into... big suprise, us.
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:27 / 20.03.09
They better not do that. That would be such a massive cop-out, that the franchise would become radioactive. If the writers drop the ball that hard, they can´t expect anybody wasting their time to watch anymore BG movies or the caprica show.
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:32 / 20.03.09
I'm preemptly lowering my own expectations on this one.


But it is possible. Disappointing anti-climatic endings that leave things up in the air seem to be the new fad in "gritty reality-based" tv shows, case in point The Sopranos, The Shield, etc.

But, deep down, I have faith. In 48 hours or so we'll know for sure. (or 100 hours or so, if you're in the UK and won't torrent)

There's still time to start a pool, btw. I bet five pound on "everybody dies".
 
 
Mistoffelees
13:01 / 20.03.09
BG isn´t shakespeare. Most of the characters will survive or get the Starbuck treatment. Maybe they´ll let Adama die by using the battlestar to shove Cavill´s evil lair into the black hole (will there be some similarities or homage to the disney movie? probably not).

They could use the last 30 minutes for a "1,000 years later" segment, showing how most of the characters are doing after the cylon ragnarök in some cylon-human colony, with Gaius froliking about as Loki and Tigh as Odin. Exit roman mythology, enter norse paganism.
 
 
Dead Megatron
13:43 / 20.03.09
So your 5 pounds are on "everybody falls into a black hole and/or becomes a god"? Interesting bet

It would be interesting if the end was a flash-foward showing that Baltar evolved into a God and then went back in time to orchestrate his own ascension to godhead by leading Cylons and humans to war....
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:14 / 21.03.09
Well, I thought it (finale) was awesome, actually. Which surprised the hell out of me and makes me unbelievably happy at the same time. It's imperfect, but amazing.

The literal obsessive in me wishes there were clearer answers on a few things, but ultimately, it was fantastic and packed so full of event, it's remarkable.

I'll stop here as I'm sure this is going be picked to death and I can't wait to join in on it.
 
 
Mark Parsons
07:29 / 21.03.09
Spoilers, please!
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
15:37 / 21.03.09
"It would be interesting if the end was a flash-foward showing that Baltar evolved into a God and then went back in time to orchestrate his own ascension to godhead by leading Cylons and humans to war...."


Actually the finale does suggest that Baltar is god in a subtle way.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
15:45 / 21.03.09
Did anyone find the anti-technology message disturbing and reactionary?

Did anyone else find the finale's call backs to Metropolis and the Twilight Zone a little irrelevant, lazy, or hokey?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:42 / 21.03.09
Spoilers, please!

Hardly know where to begin, but here are some salient points:

1. Hera is saved from colony.
2. Chief finds out what Tory did to Cally and kills her.
3. The Opera House scene is revealed to be a vision of events that occur on Galactica in CIC, which form a sort of crucible that leads to the final resolution of the Cylon War.
4. Baltar and Caprica reveal to each other that they see the "Head" versions. Baltar calls them angels as they look on. Basically telling us definitively that the Head versions are 'real.'
5. Starbuck punches in the notes-as-numbers of Watchtower which lands Galactica in orbit around our Moon, with a view of our Earth.
5. Our Earth is in a Cro-magnon age. Fleet and Cylon survivors decide to settle on this planet and mix in with the population, forming our ancestors.
6. Roslin dies, finally.
7. Starbuck... disappears. Her nature is left to intepretation but she is basically an avatar of some sort whose purpose was to lead humanity (and Cylons) to their end (along the lines of what Megatron guessed above). Head Duo helped this along.
8. Final discussion between Caprica/Baltar and Head Duo lets us understand that Caprica/Baltar were directed to safeguard Hera until she reached this Earth.
9. Flash to present day Times Square as RDM reads a magazine talking about researchers finding Mitochondrial Eve, the maternal ancestor of all modern humanity. Head Duo reads over his shoulder. Their discussion here is... big and hard to summarize. However, at one point Head Six says "God's plan" and Head Baltar says "You know it doesn't like that name."
10. As they walk away Hendrix comes on and we are shown many images of the burgeoning robots being created in this modern age...

Actually the finale does suggest that Baltar is god in a subtle way.

I wouldn't say that at all. The overall cosmology seems to say that god is a force of nature, unknowable and undefinable.

Did anyone find the anti-technology message disturbing and reactionary?

I think the message isn't anti-technology as much as it is anti-enslavement/domination. All of the human/Cylon conflict can be boiled down to one side wanted to be in control, to be the master.

You can't create life unless you are prepared to treat it as an equal. That's Keith's interpretation of BSG's overall message. I've always said that the show has portrayed Cylons as rebellious teenagers. Parents and teenagers fight because parents still want to control them and teenagers want to be treated as equals. It's only when teenagers can reach a level of maturity do parents treat them as equals and they join the world of adult life.

BSG's may be giving us a cautionary tale about artificial life but it's message isn't "shit! robots are gonna take over!" It's "you want to create? then treat it like life and work together."
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:49 / 21.03.09
Did anyone find the anti-technology message disturbing and reactionary?

Yes. They gave up modern medicine, FTL travel, electronics, etc. as if it´s not worth a damn. And now it´s certified that the BSG god doesn´t give a hoot about human/cylon life. "Wars, plagues, mass death? Well, if it gets too bad, lead them to a new planet and start over. I´ll get it right sooner or later."

And Hera was needed to get human/cylon dna in the new earth gene pool? There were many cylons and humans on new earth that could have also done that job.

Did I get those Starbuck comments right, there is no free will? Her fate was sealed no matter what? So all that mass murder was preordained? Those angels gave the impression they found all this pretty entertaining.

I wonder if the writers of the Caprica series will take into consideration, that the BSG finale has verified that there is in fact a god-like entitiy in the BSG cosmos, pulling the strings of cylons and humans alike.
 
 
Dead Megatron
04:26 / 22.03.09
I think the final punchline is that God manipulated it all because he wanted to lead human/cylon-kind to extinction, in order to reboot it into... big suprise, us.

Frakking Hell, I was actually right almost to the letter! Freaky!!


I agree that the final message was not "anti-technology", but "anti-selfish abuse of others for one's own benefit with no thought of consequences", though I'd argue that giving up on technology (and thus letting history be forgotten over the millenia) is not necessarily the best way to go about implementing that philosophy.
 
 
Mistoffelees
08:47 / 22.03.09
Hera probably died from childbirth when she was fifteen. Her child died from a tooth abscess at seventeen, grandkid = ruptured appendix at sixteen, etc. But hey, Doc Cottle, we really appreciate your work.

People with the minds and capabilities of the final five, Baltar, etc. now waste their time trying to grow crops, and their offspring will run around with clubs and spears for the next 140,000+ years. Who wrote that last episode, Kim Jong-il?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:47 / 22.03.09
Wouldn't you want a normal, boring, peaceful life after all the crap they've gone through? I could see the attraction for people are that just completely tired of drama and running for their lives. You seem to be having a violent reaction to the finale. It's really quite hopeful, though, in my view. I was pretty happy with it.

I really don't think the message is to cast off technology and that will make everything better.
 
 
Mistoffelees
15:41 / 22.03.09
How would you have a normal, boring and peaceful life without modern technology? Those people only had backpacks. How will they take care of their teeth for example, once toothpaste and toothbrushes have run out? Once their clothes and shoes are worn out, are they going to borrow some furs from their neighbours? How normal and boring will their life be, when their children get sick and they have only shamans to turn to?

I don´t see how they can have a normal peaceful and boring life under the depicted circumstances.
 
 
Lurid Archive
19:28 / 22.03.09
The anti-technology angle was pretty standard romaticisation of pre-industrial life - it is somewhat reminiscent of Tolkien, though with a nebulous mysticism replacing a belief in the class structure. As Mistoffelees says, its pretty unconvincing if you pause and think about it, and doesn't really make sense from the point of view of the characters.

However, I am reasonably convinced that this was always the intended ending, emphasasing the circle of life, rebirth, reincarnation or whatever. After all, the characterisation, plot and internal consistency have always taken a back seat in BSG when it comes to the central spiritual elements. Much as I have enjoyed BSG over the years, it really did feel like being preached at on a weekly basis. Theres nothing wrong with that, of course, but I do feel it was the cause of sloppiness in the writing and the all too frequent use of deus ex machina.
 
 
gridley
12:48 / 23.03.09
Did anyone else get a distinct Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy vibe to the final episode? A spaceship carrying the survivors of a doomed race across the stars where they happen to land on prehistoric Earth to start our human race? And to hammer it home, they even put a guy in a bathtub on the bridge of the ship!

I fully expected it to end with Baltar complaining to Head Six about his frustrations teaching the Cavemen to play Scrabble: "The only word they know is 'grunt' and they can't frakking spell it!"
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
13:31 / 23.03.09
What about the Star Trek nod? Galen, the "Chief Engineer" deciding to Settle in Scotland?
 
 
the Fool
22:59 / 23.03.09
My only gripe with the finale was the 'lets get rid of technology' thing. Seriously, people wouldn't do it. I get why they did it, so earth could be the real 'earth', but giving up science, medicine, art, engineering, history, culture for a 'fresh start' ??? I don't think so. Though I do think it works better than the woeful first round attempt at arrival - the awful Battlestar 1980 eewwww!

Other than that I really enjoyed it. The battle at the colony was suitably apocalyptic, the death of Roslin I found quite moving, other than the 'no technology' the earth stuff was good too. I could have done with more exploration of what the angels (and Kara) were, but hopefully they are seeds for future stories.

I do feel that they could have squeezed another season out of this, but appreciate that the story has been told, and on the whole told very well.
 
  

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