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Changing one's name at marriage

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22:54 / 26.05.08

I was going to put this in the "let us decide for you" thread but I chickened out.

So I'm getting handfasted this summer (go me!), and am facing a rapidly approaching dilemma. Id always thought I would change my name if I ever got popped the question, out of a sort of teenage grudge against my family I guess and a curious expression of self loathing. Now that I have the chance, I'm having second thoughts.

For one thing my name right now is really unique, I might be the only one in the world. As a sometimes freelance artist this is potentially useful. As well the name I might assume is very common. My first name is also commonly used. I might be throwing something away.

A friend of mine remarked that I can apparently legally change my name to whatever I want, my mother's maiden name, his mother's maiden name, something completely made up.

So how do you feel about changing one's name at marriage, does it somehow signify ownership? What do you name the kids? Am I really truly implicated in issues of lineage and patriarchy? Any fabulous ideas for what my new name could be?

23:32 / 26.05.08

Living in Quebec all my wife's legal papers will always be under her maiden name. She also decided to use her maiden name for everything anyways...
But... Now she wants to start using my name. It does imply ownership somewhat; but both ways, I think.
I think you should change your name if you want to: Not out of pressure, not because you need to... It can be a symbol of togetherness.
Just for fun, in a playful way, ask him if he'd change his name to yours... Social pressure, he'd probably say no, and that's understandable, perhaps, but if he was vehement, if he freaked... well why would you want to change for him?
Ask yourself, is the worry about changing your name from some fear of a deeper commitment, changing too much, just in case it doesn't last? Well... Keep yours.
And one day, if you want to, you can change...

01:27 / 27.05.08

So how do you feel about changing one's name at marriage, does it somehow signify ownership?
Well, the origin is almost certainly ownership. I don't quite understand the perpetuation of this convention, other than the fact that it is a convention, and it still confuses some people if you don't do it(speaking from the US, maybe this is different other places). I and my spouse have our own names, which we feel is fine and as it should be. Ultimately, it's what you both want as a pair together, right? If the man is really pushing for the name change that a woman doesn't want, I think that's a problem. I've seen that bullshit far too much.

Baroness von Lenska

02:15 / 27.05.08

Echoing freektemple here. Contemporary name changes seem to me to be more about embodying a partnership, a bond of commitment, and as such not so much tied to a "traditional" 'Woman Taking Man's Name' setup. Asking him about changing his name, as F-Temple suggests, is a good idea, to gauge pressure and how much of an issue it is with him. Talking to him openly about any doubts or concerns you might have regarding naming is probably a better idea.

02:32 / 27.05.08

No way in hell would I change my name. I'd feel like I was leaving behind my family.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

03:25 / 27.05.08

There's always the hyphenation option, which is not always an elegant solution but it certainly encourages the idea of "partnership." Though, keeping in mind that the Accomplice and I can't even decide which order our first names should go in when we're being referred to as a couple, it has its own unique problems.

I tend to favour not changing one's name at all; I probably won't change mine if we ever get married. Particularly given artistic careers depending a lot on what name one goes by, it might be difficult if you get married and change your name having already got a career going...

And, the uniqueness of your name is worthy of keeping it, and that would probably sell it for me.

05:12 / 27.05.08

I changed my name to my husband's partly because I like the way it sounds, coupled with my first name, partly because I thought it would be nice for us to have the same last name, and mostly because I wanted to dissociate myself from people in my family with whom I have very few positive connections. It's quite a hassle to change all your paperwork (driver's license, school, etc.) so I've only got it part of the way finished.

11:34 / 27.05.08

I told my wife about this thread and she raised a valid question:
If you keep your name and have children, what name will they inherit? Will their names be hyphenated? What if one day they get married to another hyphenated... Will your grandchildren have 4 names? (In Quebec the province put a cap on three names, but that means one grand-parent's getting shafted)
It can all go pear-shaped very quickly. (What a dumb experssion, actually...)
Still, the point's valid: You will end up either choosing a name for your child or forcing your child to choose. (or hyphenate)
I think a return to the old ways would be best, but I doubt it will ever catch on in the "me-me-me" west: I think that any male child should take his father's first name as his last, every daughters last name her mother's first.
On paper lineage is all fine and dandy, and on the surface being proud of your family is great, but in the long run it can lead to nasty things like monarchy and eugenics. I think if the system I mentioned above were adopted it allows an individual to make their own way through life without all the baggage a family name may carry.
The choice, as always, is yours, and the choice should fit you in the best and most comfortable way.

12:15 / 27.05.08

I changed my last name to my husband's after we'd been married a couple of years. We were open to finding a new last name for both of us to take - we know several couples who did that - but hadn't found one that grabbed us, and I like his name and his extended family. It feels like a romantic gesture. He's my legal next-of-kin since we're married, we have made this decision to attempt a lifelong partnership, and now we share a last name too.

Is your partner interested in changing names? You could blend the two last names together somehow, or find a new name that both of you like. Someone I know added a middle name when she got married as well as changing her last name, that's another option that would potentially make your full name more distinctive. I think you are right to keep in mind the uniqueness of your name if it is important in career terms. My name now is sufficiently uncommon to be identifiable so I haven't had to worry about that.

13:12 / 27.05.08

Does anyone know if it's allowable for the couple to choose an entirely different surname to enter married life with. Sort of a creation of a brand new family kind of thang?

13:17 / 27.05.08

Yes it is, that's exactly what I was referring to in my post above.

18:50 / 27.05.08

I have friends who chose a married name together out of the Scrabble dictionary.

Razee.

The detachable upper deck of a battleship (or the act of detaching such a deck). The new Enterprise in ST:TNG with the detachable saucer? The saucer was a razee.

And so are my friends.

20:35 / 27.05.08

c razee,more like. No, that's actually pretty nice.
The children thing is an issue, we talked about what we would do if we had children, I was leaning towards giving them their own, my wife leaned towards my name for facility, or the hyphenated version, though our names, hyphenated, don't really flow. We'll see what we decide if we end up adopting.

22:46 / 27.05.08

Just to clarify, my SO has told me he doesn't mind what I do with my name, I haven't asked if he would change his. My carreer is not nearly advanced enough to be concerned for my name as yet I think. And I do not plan on having children.

As for choosing a whole new name, that comes with the problem of what would sound like a cool name, a whole other kettle of fish!

22:59 / 27.05.08

Freek, I totally agree with the sons and daughters lineage idea. Perhaps I will become Patsdottir.

01:02 / 28.05.08

What do you do if your kid doesn't agree with your idea of what constitutes being a son, daughter, or other?

01:10 / 28.05.08

Oh, there is also the question of stage names, pen names, or equivalent. I use a common, easy-to-spell name when ordering a pizza, for example, and like many teenagers had different names in high school. Some friends still call me by those names. Internet friends will sometimes persist in calling me by my username, when it's something that can be easily pronounced. I'm ok with keeping stuff like taxes under my birth name, but would want my new name on anything with emotional significance.

Could you change your name legally, but continue to use your more unusual name as a professional identity?

11:51 / 28.05.08

What do you do if your kid doesn't agree with your idea of what constitutes being a son, daughter, or other?

They'll cross that bridge when they get there... You can't wait until your kid's talking so they can choose their own name, and you can't really treat a child as gender neutral until it comes time for them to realise their sexual identity... Figuring out ones life is confusing enough as it is without people trying to be as vague as possible...

Anna de Logardiere

15:00 / 28.05.08

Sorry, I don't get this, I've read everything here, I wrote a response to your post and then deleted it because you haven't given one reason why you would even consider changing your name. So why would you?

Anna de Logardiere

15:02 / 28.05.08

Incidentally this is the kind of society we're living in- you don't ask why you would change the name you've always had, you ask why you shouldn't, doesn't that seem like the wrong starting point to you?

15:08 / 28.05.08

you can't really treat a child as gender neutral Why not? I'm not saying you should never buy a kid a dress or use a name like Jennifer or whatever, but adding in a gendered last name on top of everything else when it's not already a part of your culture seems to me like overdoing it a bit. It's great to want to acknowledge your women ancestors too, but if we're talking about adopting something from somebody else's tradition, why not tweak it a bit?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:19 / 28.05.08

A Hu-Li, the reasoning behind initially wanting to change hir name, isn't that what this paragraph...

Id always thought I would change my name if I ever got popped the question, out of a sort of teenage grudge against my family I guess and a curious expression of self loathing. Now that I have the chance, I'm having second thoughts.

...is about, explaining the starting point of hir thinking?

I actually quite like brb's idea about the multiple names, but I've always been a little confused about the legal structuring of pen names and the like -- how does one set it up so you can use a pen name and still except the paycheques if you aren't legally going by that name? I know at least one of my old profs publishes under her maiden name, for example.

Last night, I was talking to a friend about an old roommate of ours, who's getting married. She's going the route of the "combining names, but not hyphenating." Combining syllables. While I'm not the biggest fan of the resulting name, it's an interesting idea. If I did that, I'd end up with the last name "Royce," so I think I'll steer clear.

But, as an offshoot thought, that couple has been together for a very long time before the question of marriage even came up, so presumably name changes are there to mark the change in official status and reflect any subtle changes in the relationship that result from getting married. Although, I don't know that my ex-roommate's fiance is also changing his name...

15:54 / 28.05.08

adding in a gendered last name on top of everything else when it's not already a part of your culture seems to me like overdoing it a bit.

I was thinking more of a rough guideline. It's a useful way to break a solely male patrimonial lineage. I'm not saying it should be a rule: Exceptions can be made at will...

Example: Good friends of my wife and I are lesbians and they're having a baby (I'm pretty excited, we've been asked to be god-parents... Wanting kids ourselves, it'll be fun to have someone to spoil...[My brother just found that he's gonna be a dad, as well}]). Due to the wonders of ultrasound, they know they're having a boy and are calling him "Lou". For his last name, they'll use one of their last names. (Incidentally it will be the family name of the woman who is not carrying... Caro, the biological mother, is very distanced from her family)
Now this is a family of two mothers having a boy, so my naming guideline wouldn't necessarily work. I don't think that finding and using the donors name is appropriate, either, but they could make something up pretty easily (They won't, but they could)
I just thought that in many cases the male-male, female-female naming system is a nice way of breaking things up a bit and giving equal credit and lineage to both parents. But it's the couples choice at first, and then the child's later in life... (Don't give the kids a choice too early in life or we'll have a bunch of Snaglamorf's and Kakapantz running around...)
Of course this only vaguely pertains to Hawthorns question...
Hawthorn... And I do not plan on having children. This may one day change, and if it does, I hope all this doesn't mess with your mind.
PS... I think Patsdottir is an awesome name.

16:13 / 28.05.08

O/T:
I loved our wedding, it was amazing. I had my Cousin officiate and we created our own vows to compliment the Quebec civil code.
Neither of us wanted a religious (read Christian)ceremony. My wife didn't really want to get married at first at all...
But something in me always knew that if I wanted to spend my life with someone, I wanted to be married. Not in the eyes of "god", not in the eyes of the government, but for us. I saw this as a quasi-pagan way to gather family and friends and announce to the whole tribe, "That's it... We are together now, we're officially off the market. Now lets drink and feast and dance!"
... It was all for us, and it was worth everything...
B/T/T
If you decide on a name change, Hawthorn, make sure that in your head you're saying, "This is all for us..."

21:09 / 28.05.08

I'm surprised no-one (male) here loathes the idea of their partner adopting their name. My wife has kept her surname and I'm bloody happy about that. Okay, a joint surname has its uses, but whichever way I look at it I can't see this particular convention as anything but misogynistic. That's not to say I think there are no good reasons for wishing to follow it - to disassociate oneself from appalling memories / relatives, for example - but under normal circumstances... ummm... no.

21:19 / 28.05.08

Well, I've never even gotten close to having to change my name for marital raisins but, no, I don't like the idea of my partner taking my surname either. How fucking egotistical would that be, honestly?

I'd take hers, though, maybe... if it was cooler than mine.

Marriage should be something beyond surname-changing gubbins, basically.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

01:44 / 29.05.08

I'm surprised no-one (male) here loathes the idea of their partner adopting their name. My wife has kept her surname and I'm bloody happy about that. Okay, a joint surname has its uses, but whichever way I look at it I can't see this particular convention as anything but misogynistic.

Well, as marital traditions and underpinnings have changed, naming conventions opening up to multiple options, it may not feel as misogynistic anymore and for some people is still a valid choice that they're free to choose. I wonder how often couples get into arguments over last name choice nowadays. I tend, as I've said, to favour the keeping-your-own-name thing, but it depends (as people have said earlier, it can depend on one's relationship with one's family, for example).

Was that all articulate? I've been drinking wine.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

01:57 / 29.05.08

EVERYONE CHANGE THEIR SURNAME, AT THE POINT OF MARRIAGE, TO YODA. OR AWESOME. OR YODA-AWESOME. OR POSSIBLY AWESOME-YODA. THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

caps-lock is cruise control for cool

02:35 / 29.05.08

Appreciation of the name definitely plays a part. Amongst other things, hopefully me included, my wife was rather keen to adopt my surname. We both felt it would be a little odd if we didn't share a surname with our daughter but I suppose that's due to the society we live in...

Incidentally this is the kind of society we're living in- you don't ask why you would change the name you've always had, you ask why you shouldn't, doesn't that seem like the wrong starting point to you?

Relationships and children, to me, are the point we change things that we associate with us. I wouldn't be very keen to change my first name, cause that's my name, but the surname, middle name or nicknames I wouldn't be that fussed over.
I don't see asking why you shouldn't change something about yourself a bad thing.
Should or shouldn't are both the wrong starting points but if you're committing to someone for life and having children then surnames are going to have to be discussed, in this society. My society is traditionally patrilineal so it would seem more natural for females to start with 'reasons not to change my name'. If my society was more matrilineal then I would expect males to be starting with this.... until infinite equilibrium.

Anna de Logardiere

11:06 / 29.05.08

Changing your surname to your husband's is still misogynistic, having more choice doesn't change the fact of the dominant cultural default being the continuation of the male line through children and the women who incubate those children. That choice has always existed but socially people are slightly less surprised by it now and that's because feminists fought for the acceptance of the idea. If you think that's nonsense explain why men have to pay to change their name at the point of marriage in the UK when women don't?

..is about, explaining the starting point of hir thinking?

You're right incidentally, I just didn't think about that, this is an emotive subject for me, I think it's a cop out from your own history and individuality to take your partner's surname.

Anna de Logardiere

11:08 / 29.05.08

...and if you don't like your family why wait until marriage to disassociate yourself?

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:54 / 29.05.08

I'm surprised no-one (male) here loathes the idea of their partner adopting their name.

I can't imagine marrying anyone who would consider it, unless their surname was Cockbungler or something. But then I'm not exactly "here".

12:27 / 29.05.08

I can't imagine marrying anyone who would consider it, unless their surname was Cockbungler or something. But then I'm not exactly "here".

It was love at sight, we planned our lives together.....all was going well up until the day she mentioned becoming Mrs Friedman.
There are a lot of things to consider when one marries, I really don't see the issue with consideration of the issue surrounding names.

I hope Hawthorn isn't too gutted that you couldn't even imagine marrying someone with her kind of approach to marriage.

Changing your surname to your husband's is still misogynistic, having more choice doesn't change the fact of the dominant cultural default being the continuation of the male line through children and the women who incubate those children.

I see you're point but does this mean it is wrong for a wife to take her husbands name if she prefers it. How do you weigh going against the grain of society with something you like the sound of?

The only solution I can see is some sort of discontinuation of the surname, allowing children to be free from much of the baggage that has prompted this discussion. Can I legally change my name to just 'Gary' with no surname or middlename?

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:17 / 29.05.08

There are a lot of things to consider when one marries, I really don't see the issue with consideration of the issue surrounding names.

We're all beautiful and unique snowflakes, and it's our differences that make us special. Personally, however, I like to date feminists.

13:31 / 29.05.08

Maybe I'm being ignorant but does it follow that if you are a feminist then you can't even consider changing your surname to that of your husband?

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