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The Race for the White House 2008

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18:56 / 05.11.08

I feel a great disturbance in the force...as if 65 million sets of bum cheeks were all relaxing at the same time.

Ahhhh! Feels good...

18:59 / 05.11.08

is mashedcat still around? i always had a lot of time for ralph nadar but i wonder now because of this;

link

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

22:39 / 05.11.08

Quick question: without eight years of Bush, how likely do we think Obama getting elected would be? In Michigan, the biggest reported reason for people voting for Obama was "the economy" with Bush in second, but the economy has been slapping Michiganers around for a few years now (and it's only going to get worse, sadly).

23:18 / 05.11.08

Palin looked like she was about to cry at the concession. I admit, I was satisfied by that, as well as the funereal attitude at Fox News all night. But I was a little drunk myself. I barely slept last night, watching the returns from around the country. I was sorely disappointed to hear today that Prop 8 passed, along with the other initiatives like it. There still is a long way to go. Lurid, you can't expect anyone to get elected in the country who doesn't espouse a somewhat centrist, moderate policy. I'm with XK:
But it is going to take a shit load of work to correct the evil of the last 8 years plus and get us on the right course for the {{{FUTURE}}}. If Obama has to be more mellow about change in order to drag the entire country into the 21st century I'm willing to have it happen than see a reverse freak out in 4 years. Just having a President who is sane enough to develop sound foreign policies by saying he'll have 'em is refreshing.
Changing the direction of a country doesn't happen overnight. It's like steering a supertanker. If he can get it going in the right direction, maybe we won't have another Valdez presidency, maybe more people can become comfortable with the concept of "liberal" or "progressive", and understand how at the core, the intent is to help everyone, not just those with privilege.

I'm waiting to see his cabinet. Maybe a new thread on the Obama presidency should start soon?

08:09 / 06.11.08

Now the Republicans start doing their dirty laundry. They are spreading rumours, Palin didn´t know which countries are part of NAFTA and that Africa is a continent. Can we has scapegoat now?

video article

16:17 / 06.11.08

Quick question: without eight years of Bush, how likely do we think Obama getting elected would be? In Michigan, the biggest reported reason for people voting for Obama was "the economy" with Bush in second, but the economy has been slapping Michiganers around for a few years now (and it's only going to get worse, sadly).

There was some related chat here, last election.

16:37 / 06.11.08

Speaking of Alasaka, seems there still something screwy going on. I suppose the best some could do in light of an Obama victory would be to prevent the magic 60 in the senate.

Stolen Election from Alaska?

Anna de Logardiere

22:41 / 06.11.08

Palin didn´t know which countries are part of NAFTA and that Africa is a continent. Can we has scapegoat now?

Well if they can't be bothered to properly check candidates out before asking them to campaign to be Vice President then what do they expect? Yeah hi, Palin didn't bully people into plunging her into an international press campaign, she was invited!!

22:42 / 06.11.08

She was invited, and readily accepted.

09:54 / 07.11.08

Lurid, you can't expect anyone to get elected in the country who doesn't espouse a somewhat centrist, moderate policy.

You know, I think this is complete rubbish. Okay, no-one with politics close to mine is going to be elected. However, there are loads of ways in which Obama's right-wing policies were completely unnecessary even from an electoral standpoint. His position on Israel goes way beyond even the odious level of support necessary for electoral viability. The US public polls to the left of Obama on healthcare; there isn't quite majority support for single-payer, but there's enough that it would have been to his advantage (the loss of corporate support notwithstanding) to have advocated it rather than his shitty right-wing plan. His rhetoric on Iran was completely uncalled for. There was no need whatsoever for his policy of upping the slaughter in Afghanistan. The Wall Street bailout was vastly unpopular and he could easily have gained from taking a principled left-wing stance against it. Really, if he believed in progressive causes, there are absolutely loads of ways in which he could have advocated for them without losing, and in some cases even gaining, support.

14:30 / 07.11.08

By the way, there's still a race to watch in Minnesota.

Norm Coleman (neo-con battleaxe) and Al Franken (ex-SNL satirist and professional thorn in Bill O'Reilly's side) have gone into a recount.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

15:26 / 07.11.08

Quick question: without eight years of Bush, how likely do we think Obama getting elected would be? In Michigan, the biggest reported reason for people voting for Obama was "the economy" with Bush in second, but the economy has been slapping Michiganers around for a few years now (and it's only going to get worse, sadly).

There was some related chat here, last election.

yes, I think if you'll examine the thread I'm present for most of it. A younger, more douchey Tuna Ghost but still me, unfortunately (I hate it when threads are dragged out of antiquity and I'm forced to confront my youthful silliness. It hurtsssss).

Anyways, I'm still forced to wonder if without eight years of Bush, would we now have a history-making president or this nice, warm feeling of hope and change to go with the election? I find it hard to believe that it would be so. My argument in the thread iamus linked to was that a second term of Bush would eventually lead to people waking up to the need for change, for getting involved in the election process, and I'd certainly like credit for calling that one but I'm feeling that the economy was more of a motivator than Bush (although connections to Bush dragged McCain down a bit, of course).

15:25 / 08.11.08

myself: Lurid, you can't expect anyone to get elected in the country who doesn't espouse a somewhat centrist, moderate policy.

Pingle: You know, I think this is complete rubbish. Okay, no-one with politics close to mine is going to be elected. However, there are loads of ways in which Obama's right-wing policies were completely unnecessary even from an electoral standpoint.

I respectfully disagree, and continue to agree with myself. Go figure. Seriously, though, the US electorate's center is pretty well right of many other developed nations', and no one here gets elected president (in the current climate, anyway) unless they chase the center. Especially someone as scary as a black man with the middle name Hussein needing to get the votes of a good number of fairly insular-thinking, middle-American white voters- he had to go the extra mile in convincing them he's actually not a terrorist. Probably the only good outcome of the worldwide economy tanking is that it freaked out voters enough to flee from a renewal of Republican economic policies and vote against them. It very well may have been the deciding factor, which is sad enough in and of itself. As much as anyone may want a radically different kind of administration, policy, or overall governance of the US, these things cannot change quickly without drastic and painful consequences. Some may even want the US as a superpower to collapse totally, but we're big enough to take down everyone else with us. It would not be pretty.

15:43 / 08.11.08

I'm not disputing that the US is unusually right-wing amongst rich Western countries. However, I gave a few specifics up there - the US may be right wing on healthcare, Iran and Israel, but even so, it's still to the left of Obama. As I said, no-one with my politics (supporting attacks on US soldiers and not acknowledging the right of Israel to exist spring to mind in particular) could be elected to anything but a very safe house seat, but I think the idea that Obama couldn't have been more progressive without losing votes is completely lacking in evidence.

15:57 / 08.11.08

Well, I can't really prove a negative. He may have been able to go more progressive on some counts, I can't really say. But I'm still sticking to my guns (go 2nd amendment!) that as unseemly as it is, it was necessary. This is assuming some amount of political posturing that in fact could be honest belief, though I hope not.
Not to derail the thread, but I'm now very curious as to the circumstances under which you support attacks on US soldiers?

16:30 / 08.11.08

In Iraq and Afghanistan I mean. Start a new thread about it if you will, though I'll be unable to post extensively for a while, but basically I think that military resistance in those countries is legitimate and that as part of this attacks on US soldiers are necessary. If one doesn't prioritise US/Western interests I think it's not even a particularly extreme position; certainly, it's one that's held by a majority of Iraqis.

17:46 / 08.11.08

i guess you have a point man those are quite left wing positions!

20:00 / 08.11.08

Isn't the heroic portrayal of armed resistance against outsiders a very american right-wing concept? That there are armies (Red Dawn-type projection scenarios and others) and internal enemies ("appeasers", blacks, hispanics, "leftists", "anti-troops", "terrorists' friends", "anti-americans", "socialists", "foreign-like things") ready to invade at any time (or internal enemies would install the islamofascist socialist government of shariah law welfare of the NWO) and therefore your guns must be ready? I never realized how John Wayne's WWII films were extreme leftist (or extremely pro-Iran, if I'm reading some of the right-wing blogs correctly). Or is it the case of that old "it's not X when we do it"?

On a different note, I suggest watching this week's episode of Get Your War On. Pretty funny. It's strange how some of the common right-wing fears are coming closer to overlap with the sort of Alex Jones' territory now (although I guess that's common when not having "their guy" on the throne: Coulter-McVeigh's fears of "big welfare government" etc). And the weird (and hard to define and map) soup that becomes when randyan Von Mises/ Ron Paul/ NWO/ Peter Schiff crowd enters the scene and overlaps in weird ways (not much different from the priorities of people who scream about jew bankers conspiracy, I guess -- but some can appear not that insane at times). The discourse in America was already pretty orwellian and hard to decypher to common sense. It's even harder now with these folks calling Bush a socialist (or a secretly a liberal!) and having other folks setting the left as fascism, and considering where neocons and family-foccus-type fit in all this. It's pretty confusing, and pretty hard to even being a dialogue. If a coming depression is on the way (on "leftist" Obama's run, no less), and with possible terrorist attacks, I fear in thinking what the next US conservative candidates would be like.

10:28 / 12.11.08

In Iraq and Afghanistan I mean. Start a new thread about it if you will, though I'll be unable to post extensively for a while, but basically I think that military resistance in those countries is legitimate and that as part of this attacks on US soldiers are necessary. If one doesn't prioritise US/Western interests I think it's not even a particularly extreme position; certainly, it's one that's held by a majority of Iraqis.

I'd like to register a complaint about this post. I won't dignify it with a response but let my general unhappiness be known.

13:41 / 12.11.08

That's nice, Slim.

14:14 / 12.11.08

maybe the moderators could wiegh in on this one?

14:54 / 12.11.08

I don't see that there's anything to weigh in on. Slim's registered his unhappiness and Pingle has acknowledged it. If Slim wants to request mod involvement (which he does not seem to want based on his post above), he knows where he can find the Mod Request thread.

15:20 / 12.11.08

dude it's not very nice to say its nice if someone is unhappy.

Disco is My Class War

15:43 / 12.11.08

Me, I love it when people just want to register a complaint and not actually engage, or post about why they want their complaint registered. It's nicely up there on the level of "My Dad said you're wrong so ner." What was so offensive, the fact that Pingle supports armed resistance to a large invading force or that he pointed out most Iraqis do too?

Sorry, threadrot. Who won the US election again?

15:47 / 12.11.08

As I write this, Sarah Palin is speaking in Miami, about 40 miles south of here.

Republican governors' conference, hosted by Charlie Crist.

I wonder what she's talking about. How she's being greeted.

16:13 / 12.11.08

Psst, she, please. Sorry, just, y'know, kind of important to me.

But yes, as I said, if you want to question that, start a thread about it and I'll formulate a reply when I've not got loads of work. As you like, really.

Anna de Logardiere

16:46 / 12.11.08

Does anyone with a problem with that statement about armed resistance have anything to say? I imagine someone apart from Slim might find it controversial and I'd be interested to know why it would be seen in that way.

17:31 / 12.11.08

Republican governors' conference, hosted by Charlie Crist.

Palin only went because she thought it was Jesus' descendant.

...

To think there are people whispering in that woman's ear: "It wasn't your fault, you have the support of the people, you can win in 20012"

Hey: Maybe it will be the apocolypse...

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

18:10 / 12.11.08

In Iraq and Afghanistan I mean. Start a new thread about it if you will, though I'll be unable to post extensively for a while, but basically I think that military resistance in those countries is legitimate and that as part of this attacks on US soldiers are necessary. If one doesn't prioritise US/Western interests I think it's not even a particularly extreme position; certainly, it's one that's held by a majority of Iraqis.

I think the idea that the resistance must be "military" and consist of "attacks" might likely be thought extreme by people who are nevertheless not of a US/Western Interest mindset, though such people might be in support of other forms of resistance in those countries in general.

23:08 / 12.11.08

Does anyone with a problem with that statement about armed resistance have anything to say?
I've got a few problems with it, I guess I'll take it to the "Military Aggression" thread.

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