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Cloverfield

 
  

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Hydra vs Leviathan
23:51 / 13.01.08
Anyone know what the UK release date is for this - same as US, a later date, or as yet undetermined?
 
 
Jack Fear
01:29 / 14.01.08
IMDb says February 1st.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
02:23 / 16.01.08
Just saw the finished film at a press screening in NYC and while I went in ready to be thrilled, I ended up thinking, "That's it?" There are some very, very nice moments in this flick from a technical point of view (shots and sequences involving the monster, editing, mise en scene and sound design) but it feels a lot like a made-for-TV movie in terms of directorial, acting and script choices. There's never a moment where you feel like all bets are off. Never that instant when you suddenly realize that you're going really, really fast and they've taken the safety net away and you and the rest of the audience are out there in the dark, all alone, coping with this thing.

Lowered expectations are the key, here. Go in expecting a nicely done, solid B-picture and you won't be disappointed. Heck, you might even be pleasantly surprised.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:21 / 17.01.08
yeah, reviews have started flying right and left. aintitcool has something like 4 or 5 up + readers' impressions.

here's a last-minute promotion: Cloverfield manga. any Japanese speakers here?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:02 / 19.01.08
Saw it last night and I was quite into it, actually. I'd have to say it's less about what's happening with the city and the monster and more about what happens between friends in an impossible situation, and also about being crazy in love. There's a point where I was feeling "Ok, now this defies belief, no way would anyone do this." But, really that's not true. A lot of people would go to the lengths that these friends do when faced with this.

I was really impressed with the integration of the action CGI and the actors, as well.

Very cool movie.
 
 
Mark Parsons
07:10 / 20.01.08
I was totally in the moment (freaky; unsettling) until the very end. Alas, I think teh monsta's final reveal was a bit of a letdown for me (Coulthart's art and the dragon in SMAX are far more unsettlingly alien, IMO). That's a me problem. not the film's.

The movie is wonderfully made and is certainly a landmark of sorts.
 
 
CameronStewart
16:50 / 21.01.08

I enjoyed the movie, it basically did what it said on the box. It was exactly what I was expecting, no more or no less, which is actually pretty rare.

I do have some reservations, though. For one the characters were basically blank - "walking MySpace profiles" as one review called them - and so it was difficult to know them enough to really care about them for any deeper reason than the basic "human in peril" response. I understand the reason for staying with them the whole time, and in contrast to some of the opinions I've seen expressed elsewhere, suggesting the film would have worked better if it was a compilation of various points of view from many different cameras, I do think that staying with the core group was the smart choice rather than flitting around to different perspectives, but I do wish the characters were a little more fleshed out and likable. It's also a problem that despite the enormous amount of effort to make the visuals as convincing as possible, much of the dialogue sounded scripted and unnatural. I think there should have been more improv on the part of the actors (but they were obviously cast for their looks instead of their improv skills).

I also thought that the final, extended reveal of the monster was a misstep. When we only caught glimpses of it from between buildings, or saw only a leg or a tail, or saw it for a moment in the middle of a violent camera shake (there's a quick flash of it's roaring face for a split second as they descend into the subway which gave me a genuine shock), it was much more effective because your imagination fills in the blanks (this is the reason why I think it will be hard to make an effective Lovecraft film, because as soon as you depict any of the creatures it changes it from a subjective experience to an objective one and reduces much of the horror). By holding the shot on the creature for a comparatively extended time, we got a good look at it and I think it was less frightening as a result. But of course if they'd never shown the monster completely most of the audience would be bitching about it.

Finally - and this is probably the most significant concern - it's clear that the filmmakers watched every existing scrap of 9/11 footage for research. I recognized a few shots in the film as direct recreations of 9/11 eyewitness video I'd seen, most notably when the Empire State building comes down and everyone is fleeing from the giant wall of smoke and debris barreling down the street, but there were also a few other more subtle visual cues. 6 years ago everyone was so cagey about 9/11 that shots of the WTC had to be erased from films out of "sensitivity", but now the page has turned and an entire film can exploit the imagery of that day for entertainment. I have trouble making my mind up about this - on the one hand you could argue that Godzilla was borne of Japan's collective psychological trauma resulting from the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and so therefore Cloverfield is America's cinematic catharsis in response to 9/11. But then there's a part of me that thinks it's also a bit tacky to be so calculated in its evocation of 9/11 for thrills and chills. I'm genuinely curious how this film is received by New York audiences.

Anyway, that was a long post but ultimately, as I say, I did have a good time at the movies last night so thumbs up from me. As a final note I'd recommend for anyone who hasn't yet seen it to pick up The Host, an excellent monster movie that provides the character depth that Cloverfield lacks.
 
 
Liger Null
20:55 / 21.01.08
Funny you mention the Host, Cameron. My first thought after seeing the film was "It's 28 Weeks Later meets the Host."

And there ARE striking similarities between the films. The basic storyline being one of them.
[+] [-] Spoiler

As for the characters, I didn't really have a problem with them. They were no less well-developed then in a lot of American horror films, and their stilted dialog could easily be attributed to shock, and the fact that they were knowingly being filmed.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:00 / 22.01.08
yeah, being in front of the camera changes how you act, eve when you're in an actual car crash.

the influence of a lifetime of Hollywood products infused in our front lobe also helps speaking in a forced, scripted way. i've seen people do it in real life and filmmakers can get away with forced lines via this route.

i haven't watched CLOVERFIELD yet [only Feb 1st in Brazil as well] but I fully recommend THE HOST. amazing human stuff and the monster was done by Peter Jackson's Weta Workshop.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:43 / 22.01.08
yeah, being in front of the camera changes how you act, eve when you're in an actual car crash.

A friend of mine was recently in a plane crash in New Zealand. Not a big airliner, just a small Cessna-type plane. They were on the runway and suddenly the nose dipped and they flipped right over, upside down. He had his camera running through the whole thing and sold the footage to a New Zealand news station later that day.

Strange times we live in.
 
 
FinderWolf
02:54 / 22.01.08
as a longtime New Yorker who was here on 9/11, I agreed with Cameron's review and felt the same way - torn between 'is this destruction/9-11 porn in the same way that SAW and HOSTEL are 'torture porn' and 'is this a cathartic response to 9/11, helping us deal with it by turning it into fantasy which we can view, removed, from a distance, as a thrill ride [a la Godzilla in post-nuclear Japan, as many have noted]'? I think it's a bit of both, to be honest.

I didn't think the full reveal of the monster was a problem - as Cameron predicted, I would have felt jipped if we never saw a good clear shot of the monster. I did feel that the monster sort of looked different almost every time we saw it, since the camera angles and lighting were shifting so radically each time we saw it.

I would have preferred SOME tiny bits of explanation as to why the monster existed, what was going on, little bits about what the gov't/military knew, etc. All the viral marketing about Slusho and what seemed like a research experiment gone horribly wrong led me to believe I might actually get some payoff in the actual film about that stuff. Silly me. I would have appreciated a tiny bit about that, maybe at the very end. But no, we get nothing. Some friends of mine thought that made sense and approved of the film's decision to give us nothing, since the average person would know nothing about any of that. I see that - I just wanted a little bit of explanation about all that stuff, esp. given the marketing that led up to the film.

It struck me that this is probably a big step in monster movies, even if it wasn't exceptionally brilliant or amazing, given the POV-Blair Witch approach and the fact that they made a bold move in committing to that approach and holding to it, completely.
 
 
FinderWolf
02:56 / 22.01.08
and what was the idea behind saying 'the movie isn't called CLOVERFIELD, this is just a placeholder til we tell you the real title' and then weeks later 'ok, that IS the real title.'

Also, with 9/11 and the Statue of Liberty head bit, it struck me that Al Qaeda and similar anti-American militants might view the film as their ultimate fantasy. A monster destroys most of NY, forcing the gov't to nuke it, and the symbol of American democracy is decapitated.
 
 
CameronStewart
11:41 / 22.01.08
and what was the idea behind saying 'the movie isn't called CLOVERFIELD, this is just a placeholder til we tell you the real title' and then weeks later 'ok, that IS the real title.'

You know the sitcom "That 70s Show"? That wasn't intended to be the title. It was an an unnamed project in production and while they were working on it and trying to decide on the real title, everyone who was involved with working on the show would just refer to it as "That 70s Show" as a placeholder. Eventually it became difficult to think of it as anything other than "That 70s Show" and they decided to stick with it.

So too with Cloverfield. Cloverfield is apparently the street outside of JJ Abrams' production offices. It was chosen as a placeholder title for the movie and also probably a decoy to keep the press from knowing what it was about. Eventually that title leaked to the public (thanks internet!) the hype grew, everyone was talking about Cloverfield and so to then avoid confusion, they just stuck with that title and added a card at the beginning that said it was a military operation codename.

It's speculated that the title may have been 01-18-08, further echoing 9/11.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
12:26 / 22.01.08
So much about CLOVERFIELD didn't work for me that I couldn't enjoy it. (And there are SPOILERS aplenty in this post, so be warned SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS).

Like FinderWolf, I would have felt let down if we hadn't seen the monster full-on at some point, but I agree that the scariest thing we saw was its howling face as the characters ran into the subway. The closer it looked to being human, or to being a creature capable of emotions, the scarier it became to me. The 9/11 stuff didn't bother me simply because that's the template for destruction from now on. Before the WTC went down we didn't know what a giant building spontaneously collapsing would look like, what the physics would be, how people would react. Now that we know, it would be foolish for filmmakers not to take notes and apply it to the future.

But the first of my two big problems with the movie is the shakey-cam. 28 DAYS LATER and 28 WEEKS LATER are lessons in walking the knife's edge between getting the immediate, subjective "you are there" feeling of a handheld camera without sacrificing too much clarity and visual storytelling. Those two movies are practically tutorials in how to do this in an action-horror movie. Making the camera an actual character in the movie was an experiment and one that didn't pay off for me. It's an assurance that no threat will appear that is so dire that a human being would have to put down their camera and run like hell. When dealing with a giant monster, why put a boundary on it like this? The threat should be worse than a plane wreck or a car accident. THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT sidestepped this problem because all of its terror lay in the tension between looking and not looking, but in a movie that hinges on physical danger, this seemed like a silly handicap to me. Almost like a way of assuring the audience: this won't get that bad, don't worry.

But my real problem with this film wasn't in the blandness of the characters (who felt like they stepped out of ONE TREE HILL) but in the fact that at every step the director, writers and actors made the most boring, most obvious choices. No one ever violated the bounds of propriety in their reactions to a mind-shattering experience, no one ever did anything that would gum up this amusement park ride with actual, you know, real, messy emotions. It all felt predetermined. For example, the producer needs a clear, aerial shot of the monster (they talk about "needing" this in the press notes). So not only do the characters have to rescue Beth, but they then need to run to the pick-up point and get on a helicopter that takes off so we can get our aerial shot. There are a million scarier, more interesting things that could happen here (Beth can't be moved, a bunch of parasites attack, their paths to the helicopters are cut off one after the other) but in order to get their shot the story tracks have to be artifically greased so they move fast.

A million small things that would have been passable on the small screen howled out at me like enormous monuments to fakeness on the big: the party dress and high heeled shoes, a character sprinting through the rubble in bare feet, the difference in scale between the different appearances of the monster (how tiny was it in Central Park?), the sudden depopulation of Manhattan, the only black characters being a bunch of looters, the use of cell phones underground, the fact that within two hours the military had massive field hospitals set up. But overall my big problem was that this was a vehicle for showing off a cool pitch (BLAIR WITCH meets GODZILLA) rather than an actual story with actual people having actual emotions. CLOVERFIELD makes RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD look like Shakespeare. Special effects are neat-o, but I guess I'm an old codger who needs a story to go with them these days.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:53 / 22.01.08
the only black characters being a bunch of looters

Aside from Lily, one of the four main cast?
 
 
CameronStewart
13:10 / 22.01.08
Actually the soldier who gives them the location of the rescue helicopters is black too. Not a big role, but at least present, and not a looter.
 
 
Liger Null
15:40 / 22.01.08
(how tiny was it in Central Park?),

It was only the size of a large house in the park, while in the city it was at least the size of a football stadium. At least.

And how was the monster able to just sneak up on them like that? I suppose a case could be made for it having been there the whole time, and in the disorientation of pulling themselves out of the wreckage they might have not noticed it until it noticed them. I'd have to reserve judgement until I see the film on DVD.

I would have preferred SOME tiny bits of explanation as to why the monster existed, what was going on, little bits about what the gov't/military knew, etc. All the viral marketing about Slusho and what seemed like a research experiment gone horribly wrong led me to believe I might actually get some payoff in the actual film about that stuff.

I think the viral marketing sites were the explanation. I wonder if those sites will continue to fill in the blanks now that the film has been released, or if the producers will be saving it for the inevitable sequel.

And I agree with Grady about the 9/11 stuff (which I thought was minimal, confined to the earlier bits of the film)-there was also a bit of a Katrina reference there, what with everyone being made to cross the Brooklyn Bridge en masse.


It's speculated that the title may have been 01-18-08, further echoing 9/11.


That doesn't really work, considering that the movie takes place in April. I thought the title was going to be Monstrous?

In spite of all its issues, Cloverfield was a lot of fun. It's not Shakespeare, but it wasn't meant to be. It's meant to be something to watch with a bunch of friends, get a good scare, and talk about plot inconsistencies over pizza afterward.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:46 / 22.01.08
The shakycam bothered me at times, although not overmuch. It was just a bit annoying. I've heard several reports of friends who felt queasy watching the film.

For Buffy/Angel fans, the writer is Drew Goddard, longtime Joss Whedon mainstay scribe. I think Goddard might have written a Firefly episode or two, not sure...
 
 
CameronStewart
16:02 / 22.01.08
That doesn't really work, considering that the movie takes place in April.

This is a very good point, and pretty much puts a bullet in that theory.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:13 / 22.01.08
Cameron, you're right about the soldier. Lily is South Asian and being an American I guess I should have said "African-American" instead of black since the Commonwealth countries often used to refer to South Asians as "Blacks." It's my awful American blinders: doesn't the whole world do the way we do?

Like I said, though, that was just one of many small details that I think wouldn't even have been noticed on television but that screamed out at me onscreen as fake. African-American looters are becoming a pet peeve of mine and when they appear in a movie I automatically give them DEATH WISH 3-style "gang" make-overs since that's about how authentic they feel.

For a movie that made such a marketable virtue out of authenticity there just seemed to be so much in it that was inauthentic or that is television authenticity.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:15 / 22.01.08
And just to add a disclaimer: I understand that movies deal in fake authenticity, but faking it is a real art and one that I felt was beyond the grasp of the CLOVERFIELD crew except on a technical level. I mean, technically this movie was terrific for the most part.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:28 / 22.01.08
Cameron, you're right about the soldier. Lily is South Asian and being an American I guess I should have said "African-American" instead of black since the Commonwealth countries often used to refer to South Asians as "Blacks."

Citation, please? My country is part of the Commonwealth, and I haven't encountered this...
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:47 / 22.01.08
Oh, sure. Here you go. Let me know if that answers your question about citations. Lots of links to follow from there.
 
 
CameronStewart
16:57 / 22.01.08
Lily is South Asian

I don't know if the character is ever racially identified, but the actress who plays Lily, Jessica Lucas, is bi-racial , half-black (I'm assuming African-Canadian) and half-white. I know a couple of bi-racial people and they identify themselves as black.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:59 / 22.01.08
My bad. She read as South Asian to me and I'm usually pretty good about these things due to my job, so I thought I'd trust my instincts. Apparently they fail me as I get older.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:14 / 22.01.08
Ah, right - you meant that Cameron, being Canadian, would have interpreted "Black" as possibly including "South Asian", because the term "Black British", now used to refer to Britons of African descent to reflect the various ways, most commonly by birth or through Africa or the West Indies, Britons of African descent might have arrived in Britain, had in the past been used to describe darker-skinned subjects of the British Empire, and also because "Black" was and is used by consciousness-raising groups in the 70s and onwards to mean "Black and Minority Ethnic" in Britain? Gotcha. For reference, though, I think "Blacks" would not normally be used by the members of those consciousness-raising and political groups to describe themselves or other people, the British in general and members of the BME community tending to avoid that usage in favour of "Black men/women/people", hence my original confusion.

Having said all of which, is Jessica Lucas South Asian? I was under the impression that she was Canadian (in the present) of mixed ancestry, but it's been a long time since my Edgemont fanfic days. It's certainly good to see an actress who is not white getting a leading role in a Hollywood blockbuster, even if a relatively unconventional one.

Out of interest, does this mean... ah, no. Apparently it was not shot in Vancouver. It seems Mohammed has come to the Los Angeles mountain.
 
 
CameronStewart
17:34 / 22.01.08
Having said all of which, is Jessica Lucas South Asian? I was under the impression that she was Canadian (in the present) of mixed ancestry,

See my post above.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:58 / 22.01.08
Indeed - the danger of wandering off and following links in the middle of a post there writ large, if ever I saw it. although they were very interesting. I also discovered that despite the Edgemont connection, the film was not in fact shot in Vancouver, as I had briefly hoped, since making Vancouver look like New York would have been an exciting challenge, and also a lot of money could have been saved on monster effects by simply using Christine Kreuk.
 
 
Dead Megatron
21:02 / 22.01.08
That doesn't really work, considering that the movie takes place in April. I thought the title was going to be Monstrous?


Down here in Brazil the movie is being referred to as "Cloverfield: Monstro"
 
 
Grady Hendrix
21:27 / 22.01.08
Um, say what? Were we talking about CLOVERFIELD or something?

Anyways...

I like CLOVERFIELD: MONSTRO a lot. In fact, what a great title that would have been worldwide...MONSTRO! CLOVERFIELD may go down as the most random title in cinema history and has a surreal appeal but MONSTRO, that's a name to conjure with.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
23:35 / 22.01.08
i'm sure in Brazil the Asylum studio mockbuster [or 'ripoff'] called MONSTER will have guaranteed rentals...

just saw it the other day: it's boring, only shows tentacles from time to time and has a first act that looks like porn. well...
 
 
Dead Megatron
23:49 / 22.01.08
Can't wait for the Godzilla vs Cloverfield crossover.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:38 / 24.01.08
nothing to do with the monster, but as NYer, I *loved* seeing one of the news anchors from NY1, the local cable news channel that has fast become a favorite among dwellers of the Big Apple. The Little Local New Channel that could, the fact that it is owned by CNN doesn't change the fact it struggled up from relative obscurity for a few years and continues to feel fun, local, occasionally irreverant (coughPatKiernanInthePaperscough) and just a darn fun news channel, charming in its often low-budget schlockiness and 'everyday NY'er' perspective.

If I wanted to see any news show reporting on the monster and events of the movie, it was NY1. And I got that. So I was happy camper in that respect. (p.s. neither I nor anyone I know works in any way for CNN or NY1. it's just a really good news channel. The Village Voice even loves it! So the fact that J.J. Abrams & co. had that sort of attention to local, not-famous detail about NYC was really cool)
 
 
FinderWolf
17:40 / 24.01.08
also, the movie spends about 20 min.'s establishing the Melrose Place-crap characters and their personal lives/dramas -- JUST stretching the audience's patience to the breaking point, and THEN the monster hits. It's like the writer knew "the audience is eagerly awaiting a monster, but we have to establish these characters and their dynamic/situation. So let's get away with as much of that as we can, but we know 20 min. is about the maximum we can go before the monster figures into it."

(I actually heard people mumbling to their friends, 15 min. or so into it, 'where's the MONSTER already?!?!?!)
 
 
FinderWolf
17:43 / 24.01.08
and:
>> And how was the monster able to just sneak up on them like that?

Yeah, that was a bit of a bizarre/unexplainable plot thing. They're out in the middle of a field in Central Park. Hard to miss, that thing.

as for Central Park looking 'small,' I think that's just because the cam angles & shots made it look small. It looked real and genuine to me, and I see Central Park all the time. When you're in the middle of one of the many fields/lawns in that place, looking out from certain angles, it could look smallish (especially when your field of vision is confined by a tiny camera which is in close-up mode)

and yes, as Grady pointed out, technically, the film is a stunning achievement in special FX and making it all look hyper-real. No doubt about that.
 
  

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