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Underground > Comic Books >

COUNTDOWN!

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15:59 / 31.05.07

Did anyone read the latest issue? Oh dear. It's like the most boring comic book ever written just got even more boring.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

20:52 / 31.05.07

Did anything happen? I made it through the first scene with Mary and Adam and was too bored to go on. Threw it back on the rack.

21:43 / 31.05.07

After the 3rd (49th?) issue I was just too bored and dissapointed.

anything worth Spoiling?

what's Donna Troy up to?

Phex: Dorset Doom

22:12 / 31.05.07

There's a lot of bleh here. Black Adam's still not interesting. Superheroes still don't care about bringing mass-murdering crime lord Jason Todd to justice (btw, did anybody read Amazons Attack #2?). The Rogues aren't in it so it'll be at least another week before we see them pull off a heist that, I think, was in the monthly Flash comic a few weeks ago. Lightray's death may have set up a little mystery but it also inspired one of the most unintentionally hilarious lines in recent memory. Jimmy Olsen has the power to have lots and lots of powers. Starman's still being generically crazy, despite being cured of being generically crazy in a storyline a part of Countdown was meant to spin off from. The Justice League Watchtower looks like a gaudy earring. Just bleh after bleh after bleh.

Part of the problem here is that 52* was a super-group of writers and, despite too many cooks spoiling the broth, if you put that many talented writers (and Geoff Johns- boom boom!) in a room and get them to tell a story there's going to be at least a few parts that are good. Paul Dini's fine in the monthly Detective Comics, but he's nothing special, and he's coordinating a group of c-list writers.

22:19 / 31.05.07

Read AA#2... pretty pictures, mostly entertaining. Plus Donna Troy's Cameo seems to cross over into COUNTDOWN.

02:11 / 01.06.07

I thought AMAZONS ATTACK #2 was a nice little time waster. Not very dramatic, not great, but the story clicked along and things happened and the pictures sure were purty. I guess with such massive, super-powerful, uber-iconic legacy characters like Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman I expect every issue from DC to be like LORD OF THE RINGS or something - massive, jaw-dropping excitement. But given the recent quality of DC stuff AA #2 was pretty good.

03:29 / 02.06.07

I thought the new COUNTDOWN showed improvement, then I picked up the 52 V1 trade and WOW did that series hit the ground running. There is NO comparison between the two at this point. 52 is/was amazing, COUNTDOWN is...dissapointing thus far.

I'll stick with CD for the summer, but if it doesn't get a smooth, hooky flow going, then I may wind up reading it in tpb. I'm pu7lling for it - I want the book to succeed cratively - but things feel flat for the nonce.

01:54 / 03.06.07

I agree - I, who bought every issue of 52, have skipped buying the third issue of Countdown. Just doesn't seem all that good or worth it, from my store-read/Byrne steal/whatever you call it. And I like Dini and want this book to be really good --- but so far, yeah, it's just not that good at all. The change in writers each issue is also very obvious, in addition to all the plotting & pacing problems.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

03:24 / 03.06.07

The change in writers each issue is also very obvious, in addition to all the plotting & pacing problems.

I'm wondering if some of that could have been lessened by giving each writing team a set number of issues in a row - an arc or mini-arc within the larger Countdown storyline - giving them more specific, concentrated time to focus on a given story thread. This would mean that they'd need to have more issues in the can before publication but I'm not sure if that would be a bad thing, per se. Particularly if they chose stronger writers rather than culling the also-rans of the DCU writing roster (bitchy, yes, but - meh). Justin Gray and his writing buddy did an actually decent Hawkman and I'm wondering if choosing to divide each issue between dissonant plot threads versus focusing on one or two for a couple issues and fleshing them out might do wonders for the series. As it stands, this is completely a Byrne-steal for me, and not a particularly interesting one. I'm confused why the real Duella Dent (or rather, the New Earth one) doesn't stand up, unless the point was that the only Duella to ever be around was from off-world rather than being a recent edition; if they'd decided to do that and made it very clear and possibly developed her story a bit rather than interspersing it with the opening threads in the first issue (possibly devoting the entire issue to her!), maybe using it to explain the mutability of her origins and her lies about it, well. Can you imagine? They could have made Countdown #51 into the relevant and definitive Joker's Daughter story.

14:15 / 03.06.07

I thought the new COUNTDOWN showed improvement, then I picked up the 52 V1 trade and WOW did that series hit the ground running.

In addition to the all-star writing team (if 52 was a rock supergroup, Countdown is a big-name producer who's gathered session players to execute an album) think it helps that 52 started out with a clearer mission statement as well. "A year without Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman" is a high concept to anchor the third-tier characters it showcased. All Countdown really has is "We're probably having another Crisis next year," and it's hard to be enthused about a 52-issue lead-in to another 6-to-12-issue miniseries.

I've decided to kick the habit with #48 and spend the remaining $144 on something cool. Also, I don't care for the way the Rogues are being played, and I'm afraid if I read the next 48 issues I'd have to write my own 120,000-word essay on how this is wrong wrong wrong and the writer is a bad person, possibly entitled "Redeeming the Rogues: All for None and None for All".

Phex: Dorset Doom

14:59 / 03.06.07

The link there seems to lead to the Wikipedia entry for hypertext transfer protocol. Weird.

15:33 / 03.06.07

This must suck for DC because if this was an ordinary new title they could just cancel it, but they're commited to another 47 issues.

17:27 / 03.06.07

Also, even *I*, who found Infinite Crisis (Crisis #2 in which New Earth was created) entertaining in a popcorn movie kind of way, am getting a little tired of DC wanting to have a Huge Major Really Big Crossover Event That They Keep Building Up To Every Year. Rich Johnston has teased that the possible title for this next big event that Countdown is...well, counting down to, is to be called FINAL CRISIS. Uh, really? I guess this would be the Darkseid-driven 'great disaster' we're getting to. Legion members from the future called Infinite Crisis "the middle crisis." Augh. Although if the big Darkseid/Fourth World is event is written by Morrison, as many have speculated, that would make it more palatable, hopefully.

Marvel doesn't seem to have gone down this route nearly as much as DC in recent years, even though they're talking about a big several-year plan for the MU as well....it feels more like Civil War was the big event, now everything is smaller-scale stuff about the ramifications of that.

01:45 / 04.06.07

The Grant does NEW GODS rumor seems to have died down for the time being. I read that Starlin may do a NG event or series, and that - was it via LITG? - Busiek is on FINAL CRISIS. Plus GM seems busy with screenplays these days, so I'm losing heart that he'll be pulling some big NG event off in 2008.

And I SO want to like COUNTDOWN, I so want it to be like 52! But really, I think the writing is on the (Source) Wall - as much as I've enjoyed Dini's team's writing elsewhere, here it just falls flat when compared to the 52 standard. That Darkseid-Desaad scene in issue 1/51 was horribly written. They've been keeping him off stage for years (more or less) and this is his big return to the stage? That scene, no that issue, no the first TWO issues should have been rejected by the editor at the script level, then worked over some more.

01:30 / 07.06.07

Now I just speed-read/skim this in the store; won't $ for it unless I see an issue that seems to deserve it. The only interesting thing about this newest issue was that black-suited Mary Marvel isn't Eclipso-created, as I thought from the teaser ads. But I guess from those teaser ads, she gets eventually turned evil. or something.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:19 / 07.06.07

Lightray seems to be alive in the latest issue of Superman, which came out after he died but seems to take place before...but I'm enjoying the Busiek/Pacheco run so much that I'd rather this be the status quo. Plus, Lightray's wicked fun. The comic in question is really worth a read, especially with the current flurry of New Gods-related stories and build-up: adolescent New Gods start playing in Metropolis and need to be corralled.

More on topic, I looked at the latest Countdown and I have to admit that at least Mary got power fairly quickly rather than it being an on-going quest throughout the series that would end predictably...at, yeah, genuine surprise.

I wasn't the biggest fan of 52's art -- far from -- but somehow the art teams over there put in a better finished product than the teams on Countdown - even without having the benefit of rotating as regularly (it was more an issue of fill-ins, wasn't it?). So far, the "talent" (used loosely) has been handing in some pretty weak artwork despite presumably having more time to work on their pages.

01:45 / 08.06.07

Well, I actually liked a few bits of the nu ish: Yimmy at the SourceWall and Mary's transformation were nicely done. McKeever's script seemed head and shoulders above what has gone b4 (& I like Palmiotti & Grey). The Rogues scene is better written than prior outings, but the whole thread is still just faffing about. What a BORING bunch of villians this far!

Color me: cautiously optimistic
Mythical outlook: Pollyannabanannarama

14:33 / 08.06.07

>> I wasn't the biggest fan of 52's art -- far from -- but somehow the art teams over there put in a better finished product than the teams on Countdown.

I agree that the Countdown art has been pretty weak - weaker than some of the weakest of 52 overall, so far.

18:48 / 08.06.07

Would someone care to provide a spoiler filled breakdown of what's going on for thouse of us who won't bother to flip through it in the store?

How did Mary get her powers?

what's going on at the source wall now?

how did Lightray die?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

19:16 / 08.06.07

Random thought: "What does it mean when a god dies?!" = Lightray was a God of Light, like Baldur. So him dying probably means Ragnarok.

Essential Dazzler

20:04 / 22.07.07

What does everyone think of the rumours about the state of the DCU after Final Crisis?

[+] [-] Crazy theory?

Bulshit? Unworkable? Good idea?

Essential Dazzler

20:05 / 22.07.07

(Sidenote: It makes me very happy that no-one is talking about Countdown anymore, I hope that means no-one is buying it. It really is irredeemably shit.)

20:08 / 22.07.07

I've stopped even bothering to steal it. In terms of marketshare, and - you know - not making horrifyingly boring comics, DC is kind of falling to pieces atm and Crises invariably tend to involve continuity shuffling, so maybe. It'd probably be a reasonably good idea.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

20:25 / 22.07.07

I agree that it's shit, but I'm sadly still reading. Mainly just coz I've been a big fan of the Pied Piper since Messner-Loebs created his post-crisis incarnation, and I can't quite jump off of a book that's finally giving him some face time. Also the Piper and Trickster bits are probably the least shit bits of the series.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:15 / 23.07.07

Mr Tricks, I tend to use the Wikipedia page for a storyline, to find out what's going on. Of course, when you read about Spiderman giving Aunt May and Mary Jane their own suits of Iron Man armour so they can time travel using Doctor Doom's time machine you have to assume that someone has deliberately messed up the page, but it's a good place to start.

10:38 / 23.07.07

You say AUNT MAY: WAR MACHINE like it's a bad thing, Lady. Are you, perhaps, in touch with your inner Skrull?

15:19 / 23.07.07

>> (Sidenote: It makes me very happy that no-one is talking about Countdown anymore, I hope that means no-one is buying it. It really is irredeemably shit.)

Yes. I just barely skim it now... most of the time I just read the highlights (if there can be said to be any, truly) online.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:59 / 23.07.07

Triplets, are you questioning my credentials? Sounds like something only Paranoid Arsehole Batman would do...

Essential Dazzler

21:34 / 23.07.07

Looks like I got the whole thing Arse-Backwards. Rather than the than ultimatizing the whole DCU and letting current books wither and die in an imprint, we're getting an Ultimate DCU set on one of the 52 Earths.

The selling point being that at least one of the major characters in the DCU is going to die in Final Crisis, and the only way you'll be able to read them is to pick up the Legends book. Which, of course, is the begining of a whole new continuity to Fuck Up/Read All Of To Understand Anything.

So dissapointed.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

03:05 / 24.07.07

You know, rereading this thread, I'm so sad that we weren't allowed to write Countdown, based on what we were coming up with before the first issue actually came out.

15:53 / 24.07.07

Sounds like All STAR CHALLENGE fodder to me . . .

16:02 / 24.07.07

Today's a boring day at work. Give us some rules. I'll play.

03:40 / 28.07.07

I didn't know Morrison was going to write the Final Crisis thing.

Interview with artist of the event, J.G. Jones here.

(Sorry couldn't find thread more pertinent for this)

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

05:40 / 28.07.07

Wowsers! Confirmation, sweet. I have to admit I thought the rumours of Grant doing this were just misplaced optimism and it would probably end up being a competent but nothing special series from Busiek. Sometimes I'm really happy to be wrong.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

16:38 / 28.07.07

Can someone clarify things for me regarding the current state of The Flash?

Bart gets beaten to death in Countdown, right?

Then, in the same month Barry gets brought back from the dead by some kind of Legion Of Superheroes nonsense over in JLA.

What the fuck is that all about? Did people hate Bart so much DC chose to ice him and bring back another Flash?

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