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Underground > Radio & Music >

Britpop, ten years on

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14:57 / 25.04.07

In your dreams it's better!

15:03 / 25.04.07

Lamb> Yep. Listen to 'Girl From Mars', and then 'Freak Scene' by Dinosaur Jr.

And 'Kung Fu' is The Ramones given the big wall-of-guitar-noise treatment of Sonic Youth (in fact it's like a speeded up version of SY's 'Total Trash')

15:05 / 25.04.07

I was going to suggest 'Your Woman' but it turns out to be slightly too late, and doesn't fit anyway.

The Longpigs! One of my school friends went out with the bassist. It's odd to find out that Richard Hawley (of Cole's Corner, which is actually quite good) was in the Longpigs, since I always thought they were a bit rubbish. And then he played with Pulp! (I'm reading the wikipedia entry as I type...). You can tell I stopped reading the music press in 1997, can't you>

16:33 / 25.04.07

Their Wikipedia entry makes it comically apparent that Going for Gold was their only decent song,

Do I take it that Chasing Rainbows is a) too melodramatic, b) out of the date frame or c) just unwanted somehow?

16:53 / 25.04.07

Mm, well I'll give you that Inspiral Carpets were a bit psychy, but there was a crossover/evolution you know.

18:04 / 25.04.07

The Longpigs should be on there, I think. The singer, in particular, was like a New Labour policy wonk, an almost textbook example of someone who basically wouldn't have been in a band at all if it hadn't seemed like a sensible career choice - there's something very Britpop about that, I think. And they did release that single again, and again, and again.

18:57 / 25.04.07

I heart this thread, because of the implicit acknowledgement that most of these bands were absolutely terrible, rubbish one hit wonders. If only we could only get the Labour Party to admit the same thing, it would be as if the last ten years never happened.

I have nothing to add. In 1997 I was listening to house music, smoking a lot and having sex with a beautiful bisexual model.

20:13 / 25.04.07

You are David Kohl, and I claim my £10.

Janean Patience

06:40 / 26.04.07

having sex with a beautiful bisexual model

But can you make a compilation of that to nostalgically enjoy in the car? No.

17:04 / 26.04.07

For the backmatter of the final issue of Phonogram, I was going to do a mix-tape like this. Then I decided I should do two - a top-side britpop (That is, what the Retromancers would have listed Britpop being like) and a flipside stuff (That is, the sort of stuff that got swept in the gaps between the floorboards). First one would swing towards the stuff primarily listed here. The second would drop in a load of stuff which tends to get written out of history - Auteurs, Black Grape, etc.

The difference between the two tapes would be the first would have Park Life by Blur* and the other would have He Thought Of Cars by Blur. Or something similar.

And then I didn't have room. Instead I did something else.

(The other one I wanted to do was a chronological history one. Starting with Blur's PopScene ending with Pulp's Glory Days. Britopop the Musical!)

KG

*Seriously - if you're going on a pop-impact, it's Park Life over Girls and Boys. The latter's a better song by miles and charted higher. The former just was omnipresent in terms of how it was played and - if I'm remembering correctly - actually was what made the album a top-of-chart fixture. Britpop was about crowds shouting. Park Life's call-and-response was as Britpop as thinly veiled racism.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:28 / 26.04.07

I thank Haus for mentioning Salad. OK, they weren't the best band ever, but "Diminished Clothes" was a fucksight better than anything by Supergrass, or Menswear, or the BOO FUCKING RADLEYS for fuck's sake. Salad were actually fucking brilliant for a few minutes back then.

Would it help if I said hated Blur and Oasis equally at the time? No, probably not.

Elastica, I will always have time for. Not because they were particularly good, but because they got Wire famous again. I imagine sales of Pink Flag went up a bit then. That must have been good.

lord nuneaton savage

09:12 / 27.04.07

Leave.

The.

Boo.

Radleys.

Alone.

Janean Patience

10:11 / 27.04.07

I've done the compilation to my initial satisfaction and will post the track listing tonight. The Boo Radleys didn't make the cut. They should have because Wake Up Boo is Britpop in every way. I couldn't even listen to the whole of it, however, because it's so, so bad. It would have put me off ever playing the album. Authenticity 0 - Listenability 1.

as Britpop as thinly veiled racism.

I don't necessarily disagree with this and it's been mentioned by a few people. Can you give us your argument and any evidence? The bands were overwhelmingly white but indie always is. Britpop was, I think, unusual in being a British musical movements not to be heavily influenced by black American music. It was influenced by artists who were instead. That perhaps explains why there was so little that lasted: recycling has diminishing returns.

18:42 / 27.04.07

It saddens me that no reference has been made thus far to my favourite also rans, David Devant and his spirit wife. Art school theatrics to the extreme. Or, for that matter, the great publicity bubble, aka Gay Dad.

21:50 / 27.04.07

word to savage there - okay, wake up boo is an annoying record, but it's utterly forgiveable. you're an excellent, hardworking, not very photogenic indie toilet band. the zeitgeist somehow catches up with and overtakes you - pretty but pissass clones of your band start getting mad airtime. your hugely gifted, slightly mad and very pop-friendly songwriter remembers he's wanted to be on top of the pops since he was old enough to think, and in an afternoon knocks out a tune which which has no1 hit written all over it. you release the record, it goes massive, you go on telly, times are better than ever, then some ginger cunt overplays your record to the point where no-one will ever associate your band's name with anything else.

basically, the boo radleys made at least two classic albums and a shitload of good singles and EPs. the very (only?) model of a progressive pure pop indie band, they allowed themselves to be influenced by hard guitar noise of the my bloody valentine / sonic youth kind, dub, electronica and trip hop, retaining a unique folksy english sound, while being fully able where necessary to rock like shit or be mad as fuck. a truly great pop/psych band, and you should all leave them alone, or just get their best albums (giant steps, c'mon kids) and enjoy yourselves.

09:20 / 28.04.07

I like some of their singles, I just hate Wake Up Boo.

'cause it's shit.

09:23 / 28.04.07

I think Nuneaton's comment can be read two ways, Gumby.

There's the "leave them along 'cause they're alright" interpretation, and then there's "leave them alone 'cause they stink of poo".

Come on Savage, less ambiguity more specifity.

23:04 / 28.04.07

oh, you think? no - i'm sure i'm right and that he thinks they're just smashing. i think i can remember talking to him about them recently, but, drunk, so y'know...

lord nuneaton savage

11:25 / 30.04.07

Yep, they are, without doubt, and take it from someone who spends a lot of time thinking about such things, one of the finest Brit-psych bands of all time: worthy of mention next to Syd's Floyd, Tomorrow, Soft Machine and loads of bands who only people like me and Martin Carr remember the names of (The Factory, Fleur De Lys, John's Children etc).

'C'mon Kids' remains their finest hour, if you ask me. It's not the most obvious choice, but it's mad as a lorry and more insanely over ambitious than any other British album of the period.

Sorry, I just fucking love them.

And I like 'Wake up, Boo' as well. Best track off that album was 'It's Lulu' though.

What about that little single they released seperate from 'Wake Up'? 'From the Bench at Belvedere' I believe it was called. That was just smashing.

Janean Patience

17:51 / 01.05.07

Long after everyone stopped caring, been meaning to post it for days, the final track listing:

Suede, Animal Nitrate
Blur, Girls and Boys
Elastica, Waking Up
Supergrass, Alright
Sleeper, Inbetweener
Menswear, Daydreamer
Pulp, Common People
Cast, Walk Away
Echobelly, King of the Kerb
Oasis, Wonderwall
Lush, Single Girl
The Bluetones, Slight Return
The Auteurs, Lenny Valentino
Kula Shaker, Tattva
Catatonia, Road Rage
Space, Me and You Vs The World
Shed Seven, Going For Gold
The Verve, Bittersweet Symphony

11:36 / 02.05.07

Its funny- looking at the track listing and the dates for me britpop ran out of steam around 95/ 96 at the latest- i was never really that bothered about the later bands like catatonia, shed seven or space- it was all anbout blur and elastica and pulp for me.

My bestest britpop moment was glastonbury 94 when it was all kicking off- on the NME stage on the sunday you had oasis kicking things off- the week that shaker maker was released, then we had echobelly, inspiral carpets, pulp (playing his n hers album) radiohead (previewing new material from forthcoming album the bends.... the only time i've ever seen a band play new stuff and really been blown away by it) and finishing up with Blur playing from Parklife and ending with a tearful sing along of To the End- that was definitely my defining moment of britpop- followed closely by glastonbury 95- with oasis and pulp headlining and the whole country britpop mad, kind of the begining of the end IMHO...

what is the best britpop album? and what would be the best (not the defining but best- so no need for sleeper or the shaker!) tunes?

I'd nominate parklife as a defining moment along with His n hers by Pulp- both fucking genius, very english albums that set a standard- and both have held the test of time as great records- Super Furry Animals Fuzzy logic was a mind blowing record- that was around this time- but was it "Britpop" also for all the scrabbling and scrapping over the Boo Radleys Giant Steps will always be in my top twenty greatest records EVA!!!11 cos its bloody brilliant Lazerus, barney and me, butterfly McQueen and wishing i was skinny are all heartbreakingly great tracks in a massive psychedelic orchestral pop way. Predating spiritualized's ladies and gentlemen or mercury revs deserter songs by a couple of years but should be considered of that ilk- check it out ( i hated wake up though...)

14:43 / 02.05.07

I'd forgotten Barney and Me. I think I'm going to have to go and listen to some Boo Radleys now.

16:11 / 02.05.07

It's got one of the greatest openings of any album ever, Giant Steps.

Britpop would have more accurately termed Engpop, no? Notable exceptions of Catatonia and those Stereophonic tossers.

22:02 / 02.05.07

Super Furry animals certainly outgrew britpop- but fuzzy logic was part of the moment and not english at all- what about teenage fanclub - the deaththrows of creation records were certainly embroiled with britpop (boo radleys, oasis, SFA's teenage fanclub... primal scream...) surely they represented the non english (make that london) side of the "movement"...

hope you enjoy giant steps boboss- its lined up for my ipod tomorrow... trumpets on butterfly mcqueen are magical and barney and me is one of THE missed britpop hits - it certainly surpasses wake up as a classic tune IMHO...

where do folk stand on spititualized- their defining moment (like The Verve) came a little too late for """Britpop""" classic status- but ladies and gentlemen is still one of my bestest records eva- and whats with dissing the charlatans- surely they should've been on the compilation ( the only one, can't get out of bed, jesus hairdo, weirdo, just when you're thinkin things over, north country boy- all definitive britpop classics) their linkup with the chemical brothers surely puts them head and shoulders above sleeper and kula shaker on the compilation as a sign of the times... other thoughts? or was it only me that loved em for a couple of years...

Janean Patience

07:31 / 03.05.07

Perhaps the problem I, Boboss and others have with Wake Up Boo! is precisely because it came from a good band on the back of a great, but ignored, album. They were talented but they were missing out. Where Shed Seven strained for a pop hit, in the unconscious knowledge that was the most they could ever hope to achieve, the Boos lowered themselves. It wasn't the alchemy that made Going For Gold but a capitulation that made Wake Up Boo! so terrible. This was a band selling their soul for a traditional hit to get some attention for their skewed pop albums. That's why the single is so coppery and bitter and false, like biting on a KitKat with the foil still on.

The Charlatans... I guess North Country Boy was the same period and fits the criteria, but because they'd been around for a while I subconsciously considered them part of an earlier movement. I'll put them on the Madchester compilation. Spiritualized I cherish above all bands, and Ladies and Gentlemen is probably the best album of that decade, but Jason was always ploughing his own furrow. I doubt he looked beyond his fringe to see Britpop going on.

This thread should really end with between 94 and 96 replies.

16:25 / 03.05.07

The Charlatans... I guess North Country Boy was the same period and fits the criteria, but because they'd been around for a while I subconsciously considered them part of an earlier movement.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking wrt Teenage Fanclub and Primal Scream. That, and there's not anything in either group's style that links in to the groups that are more commonly linked to Britpop. Especially the Primals.

And that applies to SFA, too. I dunno. I associate Britpop with every group from the period that I hate (or some of whose output at the time I hate) with a passion, lack of imagination or sparkle, and plodding, dull bullshit that's dated terribly.

The other condition I'd place on whether or not you place a group within the nebulous Britpop thang would be how visible they were, how successful. Groups like the Fannies may have been POP, but they were never massively pop.

SFA, Fannies, Primals, Charlatans - they were active at the same time as the obvious Britpop candidates, but otherwise I don't get the link. Wrt those four specifically, all also managed to shift and alter their sound in significant ways over the course of their careers - and also during the Britpop period - which, again, would make them the antithesis of the stuff which gets affected by the "dull bullshit" chip on my shoulder.

09:13 / 04.05.07

by that criteria then blur weren't britpop either? Leisure came out at the same time as the charlatans first album...

its funny how much of it is a personal thing- i tend to think of britpop as a broader thing- that includes british bands that were making a big impression at the time rather than the rather tedious Menswe@r and camden kids that were ultimately fairly unsuccessful (Powder, Salad, echobelly etc.)

Bands like primal scream, the stone roses and the charlatans may not have been flag waving forbearers of the movement but they were huge at the time and would be played alongside blur oasis etc in the britpop clubs. i seem to remember Tim Burgess featuring in a Melody Maker/ NME debate about american music vs Britpop- and being photographed in a union jack flag for the article. Defo britpop bands IMHO.

09:27 / 04.05.07

I'm inclined to keep the early ninties indie sound away from this as well. Sure, some bands that came out of that scene - Blur for example - had success during the Britpop years, but in my mind they are distinct eras, each with their own set of connotations. Put very roughly, bands like Primal Scream, Happy Mondays, The Charaltans, The Stone Roses were embedded in early ninties rave culture, Britpop was another beast entirely.

Does that chime with anyone else's thoughts?

09:54 / 04.05.07

There's no way I'd add Primal Scream, The Roses and The Happy Mondays in with Britpop (something that I hate quite a bit, sorry.) but I'm not so sure about The Charlatans. I get what you mean though, yeah. I see the first 3 as bands that influenced and helped bring about (not that some of them will have liked what Britpop was, surely.) Britpop years before it existed, not bands within it.

10:17 / 04.05.07

Primal Scream the stone roses and the happy mondays all released records in the 80's- maybe too early to be britpop proper- although what we are talking about is an abstract term; There was never a manefesto or poll which said these bands are britpop.

Weren't Saint Ettiene around for ages pre britpop but are also one of the definitive bands?

The Charlatans didn't release anything till 1990- definitely a 90's band- caught in the tail end of "Baggy" who like blur changed their sound from baggy they became more retro/ stonesy- fitting neatly into the britpop mould. They were really big at the height of britpop- i saw them 3 times between 94 and 96- and released a number of classic tunes in this period.

10:20 / 04.05.07

Yep, I'm with Randy, Boboss and Te. If the band first came to prominence in the Britpop era, were British and made self-consciously mainstream-indie pop, then they are Britpop. If they made their name either side of that then they are not. The Charlatans made their name in the Madchester / baggy days and were old news by the time Britpop came around, and are therefore NOT britpop. Wasn't their one and only really big hit ("The Only One I Know") a late eighties job?

[edit: just seen Copey's latest post - 90s, maybe, but early 90s. A year is a long time in pop!)

Blur were around for a while beforehand, it's true, but it wasn't until Britpop that they really stood out and appeared to be defining or leading the latest sound instead of shamelessly copying it (which they did before Britpop - "There's No Other Way" is *such* a Stone Roses rip-off - and afterwards, when they turned into Pavement).

I don't share the hate/contempt for Britpop that a lot of people here feel. As I said previously, I felt like I *ought* to dislike it, but I couldn't, because it was jolly good mainstream pop. I like there to be a bit of mainstream indie knocking about. Not neccessarily as something to invest in emotionally or get bang into, just something to brighten the place up a bit.

10:29 / 04.05.07

The Only One I Know

1990 wunnit

lord nuneaton savage

11:45 / 04.05.07

Ooh, I'll tell you one defining Britpop record. Does anyone remember the Alex James/'Tin Tin' Duffy collaboration under the name 'Me me me'?

The record was called 'Hanging Around' and is one of the perfect encapsulations of the period, being a horribly jaunty, knees-up-mother-ballbags, plink-plonk load of nob-rot recorded by two people who used to hang around the Good Mixer like a bad smell. I wish I had never remembered it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:20 / 04.05.07

She said everything is free,
I like coffee, you like tea,
He said I'm just happy to be,
Sitting here, stay with me.

She said let's go hanging around
Knock about, talk about things.

Safe and sound,
Hanging around, hanging around.

It's a sign of the power of the zeitgeist that they didn't end up hanging around in Police safe houses.

12:22 / 04.05.07

I wish you hadn't either. That's going to haunt my head all day now...

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