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Britpop, ten years on

 
  

Page: 123(4)

 
 
Mike Modular
12:26 / 04.05.07
Aargh, see, now, before I just knew the tune and the chorus/title. Now I have the lyrics as well it's all a bit much. What a terrible, terrible song.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:28 / 04.05.07
Imagne having those lyrics lodged in your cranium for the last decade. Then ask me again why I am so mean to people.
 
 
Janean Patience
12:33 / 04.05.07
The "it's all the fault of Alex James from Blur" defence is now well-established in English law, having been used in several murder trials, one case of a negligent oil-tanker captain and a massive bankruptcy. It's the Get Out Of Jail Free card of the modern age.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:16 / 04.05.07
Fans of 'Me Me Me' may enjoy Alex's regular column in the Independent, in which he discusses the pleasures of life on his farm in the Cotswolds.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:44 / 04.05.07
Boboss: Put very roughly, bands like Primal Scream, Happy Mondays, The Charaltans, The Stone Roses were embedded in early ninties rave culture, Britpop was another beast entirely.

Does that chime with anyone else's thoughts?


Yes, very much. I mean, Screamadelica's a club record. The only guitars on it are sampled.

Sav: their one and only really big hit ("The Only One I Know")

They had some relatively big hitters later, too. Jesus Hairdo and Can't Get Out of Bed, both of which predate Britpop. The sound of North Country Boy is a lot more folky than yr standard Britpop, then the last long player - Wonderland? - is a Curtis Mayfield tribute album.
 
 
Spaniel
16:48 / 04.05.07
(I was such a Charlatans fan for a while there)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:53 / 04.05.07
On the other hand the video for 'Just When You're Thinking Things Over' was based on 'Performance', which does seem like a quintissentially Britpop thing to do.
 
 
---
17:32 / 04.05.07
The only guitars on it are sampled.

Are you sure about that? Seems odd..
 
 
Spaniel
17:33 / 04.05.07
Why odd?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:43 / 04.05.07
I'd be surprised if the guitars on 'Moving On Up' and 'Damaged' were sampled, in any case.
 
 
---
17:50 / 04.05.07
Why odd?

Because they were a band from the off. It seems wierd that they'd ditch guitar playing for a whole album and have it all sampled.
 
 
Spaniel
17:56 / 04.05.07
Not necessarily. Given the context that Screamadelica was produced within - the late eighties electronic music explosion - I wouldn't be at all surprised if traditional recording practices were eschewed during its production.
 
 
rizla mission
20:07 / 04.05.07
Imagne having those lyrics lodged in your cranium for the last decade. Then ask me again why I am so mean to people.

Those lyrics are perfectly good.

It's everything else about the song that sucked.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:04 / 05.05.07
With music. And video.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:55 / 05.05.07
The Primals certainly toured Screamadelica with live guitar.
 
 
Janean Patience
07:55 / 05.05.07
I'd be surprised if the guitars on 'Moving On Up' and 'Damaged' were sampled, in any case.

Damaged was, iIRC, produced by Tom Dowd who produced Let It Bleed and the subsequent all-guitar Primals album. A conventional rock 'n roll producer so I'd guess conventionally recorded guitar.

This thread is really testing my memory of what I read in Select in the 1990s before I switched to The Face.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
09:23 / 05.05.07
I knew I probably wasn't right when I posted that.
 
 
Spaniel
12:57 / 05.05.07
This thread is really testing my memory of what I read in Select in the 1990s before I switched to The Face.

Get with it! I'd already switched from The Face to ID by the summer of 1990.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
09:55 / 10.05.07
Yeah, pretty much all the guitar on Screamadelica is live, or at least played by their guitary chap and arsed about with later.
 
 
Lea-side
10:19 / 10.05.07
Talking of Scream guitars, I understand Throb is no longer in the band. What a shame, i always enjoyed watching him pull 'rock' shapes during every song. Even if there was very little or no guitar, you could always rely on Throb to be standing there, Les Paul slung low, rocking out. any ideas for the reason of his departure?
 
 
KieronGillen
15:59 / 17.05.07
God, this is late.

EndlessLove: "I don't necessarily disagree with this and it's been mentioned by a few people. Can you give us your argument and any evidence? The bands were overwhelmingly white but indie always is."

I was mainly being tongue in cheek, but there's enough to comment on. Indie, as you always say, tends to be a white-centric movement, but Britpop pushed it further than most. It reappropriated nationalistic imagery. Britpop was a deeply reactionary genre, as I think most people have noted.

(Like most movements, it got more so as it progressed. It was certainly more homophobic at its blokey close.)

Re: Boo Radleys. Seriously, their personal narrative was one of Britpop's tragedies. I'll echo everything Gumbitch says upthread. In some ways - while personally and musically miles apart - they're almost the 90s equivalent of Dexys, in terms of them being a deeply personal, passionate, experimental band who were overtaken by The Hit. They always wanted to be the Beatles, and when - for a few weeks - they'd made a Beatles-sized hit, they had to live with the consequences. Britpop all over.

(Completely agree with lord nuneaton savage: C'mon Kids is the place to start. It's got everything. Almost literally, in many places.)

E Randy Dupre: "And that applies to SFA, too. I dunno. I associate Britpop with every group from the period that I hate (or some of whose output at the time I hate) with a passion, lack of imagination or sparkle, and plodding, dull bullshit that's dated terribly."

This is a terribly convienient argument, innit? I'll give you space for Primal Scream to exist outside it, but the Charlatans were never anything but regressive fuzzy 60s pop. Their fans had enormous cross-over with key Britpop bands on the Oasis-Axis, certainly.

The difference with people like SFA were that they were part of the whole second half of Britpop. Early period was dominated by Blur-influenced stuff (or stuff in their intellectual terrain). Second half was dominated by Oasis-influenced stuff (or stuff in their intellectual terrain). SFA were part of the whole sphere of things which make up OTHER second halfs of Britpop which never gained mass momentum (See also: Romo, the C86 stuff, whatever). The Welsh wing of stuff - Catatonia, Sixty Foot Dolls, Spaced, Gorks - also were helped by the re-emergence of the Manics.

But it was more complicated than a simple "All late period britpop was shit".

KG
 
 
haus of fraser
09:12 / 18.05.07
I was talking about this thread with Gumbitch- one of the key things that seems to have been ignored is how britpop grew and adapted lots of the stuff started by "Baggy" and was in many ways a companion of "Big Beat".

The Chemical brothers working with Oasis and The Charlatans, Primals and Andy Wetherall, Black Grape, The stone roses second coming, orbital playing before Pulp at Glastonbury 95- The whole Bristol thing of Massive attack etc providing Chill out music The Big Kahuna nights were certainly pretty central to a certain part of the britpop years IMHO.

I'm curious as to why this period is so rigidly defined as a bunch of bands from camden and oasis- surely it was so much bigger ?
 
 
Janean Patience
09:50 / 18.05.07
Early period was dominated by Blur-influenced stuff (or stuff in their intellectual terrain). Second half was dominated by Oasis-influenced stuff (or stuff in their intellectual terrain).

That's a very cogent analysis and puts all kinds of bands mentioned in this thread in context. And puts the Blur/Oasis duel at the centre of things.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:05 / 18.05.07
I think the really key thing here is that the name Britpop is not a literally accurate descriptor - by rights it should mean all British pop music, but it doesn't. What this means is that I don't agree with Kieron's (to my mind) overly inclusive definition - the latest issue of Phonogram defines Radiohead and Shampoo as "both equally Britpop", which I only think is true to the extent that neither of them were, Radiohead always being seen as very much outside that party (I remember broadsheets describing them as Britpop, but never the actual music press (RIP)) and dealing with different concerns, Shampoo being too genuinely POP! and not bothering with guitars - likewise Romo was surely an intended antidote to Britpop Phase II rather than a different wing of it. But at the other end of the spectrum, I don't agree either with E Randy's definition, which does seem narrow and convenient and weirdly circular - if it was Britpop, it was boring and shit; if it was inventive and good, it wasn't Britpop.

Er... it's always easy to say what structures are wrong rather than proposing one that works, isn't it?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:14 / 18.05.07
Fair point, but by rights "pop" should mean all music that's popular, too.

You're right, though- as with most of these "movements", it was generally a label imposed from outside for the most part, with bands choosing to "join" or not, as the case may be.

With genres themselves being fairly nebulous and mutable at the best of times, it's inevitable that a "scene" will never be able to agree, even amongst itself, on exactly who or what consitutes it.

Which is as it should be, really, otherwise this thread would have been over after two posts.
 
 
KieronGillen
14:58 / 18.05.07
(Quick one, as I'm at work)

Kohl's definition shouldn't necessarily be read as mine. Point was it was a personal definition, and our own conceptions of what a movement was are worth holding on to, rather than capitulating to someone's simplified picture.

And in the big Melody Maker article when they actually genuinely went full on the Britpop thing - coverline "BRITPOP!" probably - definitely included Radiohead. I looked at it as part of Phonogram's research.

Re: Romo. I agree - Romo was a kicking against the arse-end of Oasis-influenced Britpop. But *early* Britpop had a load of more synth orientated stuff, including Suede/Pulp esque androgny and make-up, which you could make an argument of it as a continuation. In an alternative universe, where Pulp were the predominant force, it's easy to picture the worse Romo bands being the universe's equivalent of Heavy Stereo or something.

I suppose the point being that the definition of what was Britpop was rewrote several times in its own lifetime. In ours, Romo certainly wasn't Britpop. But...

KG
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:57 / 18.05.07
But it was more complicated than a simple "All late period britpop was shit".

It's not, though. Britpop, as a movement or as a genre, never existed in reality. This thread just proves how personal the definitions of it are, and I'd argue that on that basis alone, mine is just as valid as anybody else's.

I'd also argue the Charlatan's point, because there's a freshness to a large amount of their mid to late period stuff, even if they were still wearing their influences on their sleeves. Curtis Mayfield was never a standard point of reference for English guitar pop, for a start. "Regressive fuzzy 60s pop" does them a huge disservice.
 
 
KieronGillen
11:32 / 20.05.07
Dupre: Actually, I'll retract that line about the Charlatans. You're right - it was unfair. That I didn't think they ever synthesised their influences well enough doesn't mean that the influences weren't there.

KG
 
 
johnny enigma
10:03 / 24.05.07
*threadrot*

About a decade ago, I saw The Charlatans and Iron Maiden in the same week. Iron Maiden were far more enjoyable than The Charlatans.

As for the whole Boo Radleys thing, I definitely agree that they were well good. C'mon Kids is a superb album, as was Giant Steps - I haven't heard any of their other stuff.
 
 
Janean Patience
11:00 / 31.08.07
Britpop was a movement of singles, like any pop movement, so this thread didn't talk much about the albums. Listening to Suede's Dog Man Star recently, though, which I'd call a classic of overblown pretentiousness with few equals ("You were outside making permanent love to the nuclear age,") I wondered what, if any, the classic Britpop albums were.

The obvious choices are the twinned duo from the summer of Britpop, Oasis' (What's The Story) Morning Glory and Blur's The Great Escape. Except that the latter is, I believe, not held in high esteem by Blur fans and comprehensively lost the battle for sales and public acclaim that the Manc lads won. Parklife is probably more of a blueprint for Britpop, with its Kinks influence and Phil Daniels and its crude attempts to anatomise the working classes. But I spent those years fervently hating Damon Albarn so I'm not the best person to comment. Pulp's Different Class also came out in 1995 and was a sales success. It's got iconic songs on it - Common People, Es And Whizz - but doesn't, to my mind, hold up that well today. Too many fillers indistinguishable from each other.

My nominations for classic Britpop albums? I'm glad you asked.

Suede - Dog Man Star
The apothesis of everything Suede promised and strove to do, a moody, dramatic extravaganza of an album. It's got those Bowie guitar lines zipping up and down, every song is epic, and as the album progresses each song attempts to top the last in length and power. It's exhaustingly full of itself. But it's also full of tunes, of style, it's unified in sounding like the product of one place and time and of extraordinary excess, and it's about modern Britain. Through all kinds of filters, but what makes this unarguably Britpop is the focus on modern life in Britain and how it's lived.

Pulp - This Is Hardcore
Suede wrote about the dark side of excess as it was happening, in a doomy glam-goth way. This album is about what happens after the wave breaks, after your generation emerges into the sunlight and takes over the airwaves and the nightclubs. It's the comedown album, dealing with getting older and getting things wrong and the ultra-short-term nostalgia the 1990s specialised in. "The revolution's happened, haven't you heard?" Jarvis sang, with the crumpled cynicism of a man who's achieved the fame he's spent a decade or more working toward and found it not much more than a novelty. It's post-drugs, post-youth, post-orgasmic. And again it's all about Britain and how we live in it, obsessively digging through our entrails like a soothsayer.

There may be more, I'll have to think. Any other suggestions?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:52 / 31.08.07
I disconcur with you. Parklife and Definitely Maybe are more quintessential. Parklife in particular is formative and far more of a britpop album than The Great Escape but I think there's an argument for Definitely Maybe as a defining set of songs, some people might disagree but then it led to the duller aspect of the subculture. I was at school in the South East and there were two musical battlegrounds, Blur vs. Oasis and Take That vs. East 17 and the BlurOasis battleground definitely began with Parklife.

It's got iconic songs on it - Common People, Es And Whizz - but doesn't, to my mind, hold up that well today. Too many fillers indistinguishable from each other.

You're clearly biased or you would have mentioned Feeling Called Love straight off the bat. There's a measure to be noted here.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:56 / 31.08.07
It's post-drugs, post-youth, post-orgasmic.

It's also post-Britpop. Not that I'd object much to its veneration - to my mind the quartet of His & Hers/Different Class/This Is Hardcore/We Love Life form a great cycle that goes underground promise/breakout success/decadent disillusionment/detoxed renewal. I really disagree with the idea that Different Class is full of filler! Aside from Bar Italia and Monday Morning I can't think of two songs on there that are at all similar, and when there's also stuff like 'I Spy' and, as mentioned by Tryphena, 'F.E.E.L.I.N.G....', then this idea seems strange indeed.

Trying to decide on classic Britpop albums really depends on whether one is judging on how they stand up today or how "important" they were at the time...
 
  

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