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Captain America in the news (spoilers)

 
  

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Phex: Dorset Doom
18:53 / 08.03.07
The Youtube reference comes from Civil War: Frontline. Sally Floyd gets pissed at Cappy during their post-Civil-War interview and accuses him of being out of touch with contemporary America.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:37 / 08.03.07
yeah, I think it's safe to say that the scene with the reporters saying Cap is out of touch with America because he doesn't look at myspace or youtube or watch American Idol was pretty ridiculous.
 
 
The Falcon
20:37 / 08.03.07
But DD,

Not only does that insult every American, and Captain America himself, but it could be used to spawn a roadtrip to discover... something. Seriously. Cap and whomever he's dating at the moment - Carter, Diamondback, Wilson - in a big-ass car that moves gas through it at something like two miles a gallon, getting into adventures, wandering the land, and generally being something between 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas' and 'Pulp Fiction'. But with scaly-mail armored tights and the Sons of the Serpent or something. If it can't be written by Gore Vidal without fanboy's suiciding, have Dwayne McDuffie or Larry Hama write it so it'll be light enough to be digested by the average comics reader and go, go, go...!

EB say, above quoted by Findo, who's certainly lived up to his username in this thread:

The two obvious options -- a) Cap resigns, gets on his motorcycle and goes to find America...

And frankly, it'd've been quite nice, I suppose, and something that might have paralleled what I think the Gruenwald run had in it, in that way you do, but actually have no idea. Sounds a bit like the first 20 or so issues of Shade, the Changing Man to me, which isn't really a bad thing, but not necessarily apropos or modern.

As it stands, I officially hate pretty much the entire comics internet - at least 90% - as a result of slogging through what a million hermits who largely are not reading this comic think SHOULD be happening (not you, mate, but really: which stage of the Fallen Son-o-meter of grief are they generally at? Rage, I should think. But not the rage of a Wolverine, no. The rage of a Shut-In.) I process grief at the death of a fictional character fast as fuck, so.

It was a really awesome event, in the sense of surprising and shocking - one I fortunately avoided spoilers for, and unlike it's American hero predecessor, one which didn't fuckin spell it out on the cover - and it's just, yeah. Well done, you don't get that - that shotgun blast of "surely not?!" plot-twist - nearly enough from the superhero grind. Really resonant, too, in a way that's not chiselled particularly obviously. Loved it.

(Of course I reserve the right to deny any of this if Ed 'fakeout' Brubaker goes for the undisputed title of Champion Death Faker with three on the board - I'm counting Darwin - already in his short Marvel career.)
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:11 / 08.03.07
While I doubt the Frank Castle Cap will last long at all, I a) do like Fraction's Marvel Universe Punisher and b) Fraction (and to a lesser extent Millar) did a really good job of setting up an interesting dynamic between Cap and Frank.

Frank's refusal to fight cap, his willingness to get his ass kicked (and have one of the few people he respects hate him) in order to keep Cap's integrity ("Iron Man's making deals with criminals to stop us, that's wrong! Let's make deals with criminals to stop him!"), and his ruminations on the importance of there being a Captain America even if it is just a guy keeping the suit warm were all really well handled.

And really, it's one of those "There's no way they'll ever do that, OMG they're doing it!!! ideas. Of course, the MU Punisher while hitting some of the same notes as the Ennisverse Punisher is a different character.
 
 
This Sunday
21:23 / 08.03.07
To be utterly fair, Brubaker writing a storyline that uses Cap dead to maybe try and say something... I am interested enough that I'll have to check it out. I think I just got bored with the narrative, months back when I bailed.

And, yeah, the early 'Shade' was what I was trying to tap in that - not a 'what to do instead of Brubaker's plans', but - future potential fantasizing an editorial fiat.
 
 
The Falcon
21:35 / 08.03.07
Yeah, I totally agree IMS - that was the whole crux of PWJ#2(3?), really, and about one of the few moments when it's interface with the main Civil War series reached it above bowel-scrapingly tedious - I think Millar had Spidey - someone, anyway - say, 'same guy, different war' and I actually misremembered it as having occurred in fraction's book coz it was such an overt and obvious fit, alongside the whole 'making Cap uncompromised' angle that was being worked. I kinda wanted to say all that in the Punisher thread (and also: "the two best books Marvel are publishing are quite possibly both Punisher books") but did not.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:35 / 09.03.07
Punisher Cap is totally an excuse for someone to write some Ultimate Cap/Jesse Custer stories. This is getting a lot of press on the talk radio circuit, but I don't think they understand how comic deaths work, especially for huge characters like Steve Rogers Cap.

I trust Brubaker in whatever he wants to do, his Cap has been a breath of fresh air.

Hey Hause, Winter Soldier 1 hardback is a good start to Brubaker's run, and decently priced.
 
 
tavella
06:35 / 09.03.07
I'm wondering what the rest of the Red Skull's revenge is going to be. He didn't call in favors from Doom, Zola, and others just for a simple kill. Though paraded through the street and then gutshot by the woman he loves is certainly quite an opening move.

But Rogers didn't know who was behind it all, and the Skull's not going to find that satisfying. Bringing him back just to torment him further seems Skull-style.
 
 
Sax
14:02 / 09.03.07
There was a big piece in The Times today.

Throughout which they spelled the word "heroes" as "heros".

Quite frankly, if standards have plummeted so far on The Thunderer then it probably is time to kill off Captain America.
 
 
murphy
00:42 / 10.03.07
My bet is the bullet and blood is a squib

IIRC, back in CAPTAIN AMERICA #351, Captain America did get shot by a sniper. Okay, the Captain America was Johnny Walker, and not Steve Rogers, but the bullets and the blood were fake.

Steve Rogers had taken back the mantle of Captain A, and, during a press conference announcing such, the Scourge of the Underworld capped Cap. Then the gub'ment resurrected Johnny Walker as Jack Daniels, and gave him Cap's old Captain costume, and named him the U.S. Agent.

...what ever happened to him, anyway?
 
 
The Falcon
01:17 / 10.03.07
He's in Omega Flight, for some reason.

Reading the Civil War tie-ins that lead up here, there's patently a lot of the Skull's plan, involving a) a time machine, one use only, from Doom (I think) and b) mad cloner/genticist Arnim Zola still to be played out. But how?! Also, why?!
 
 
tavella
03:39 / 10.03.07
I think the why is that the Red Skull has 66 years of ass-kickings to extract revenge for, and one death just isn't enough.
 
 
Mario
11:52 / 10.03.07
My final word on the subject.

If Bru had done this in six months, after the CW-related furore had died down, it might be hailed as brilliant. But by tying it into a POS like Civil War, he's doomed to be tarred by the same brush.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:33 / 10.03.07
By people who've read the issue, let alone people who've been reading his run so far, or by those who haven't, Mario?
 
 
Spaniel
14:49 / 10.03.07
I really enjoyed this comic. More later (I hope).
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
16:45 / 10.03.07
Hmmm, despite it's being double sized I thought the issue was little light compared to most of Brubaker’s brilliant run on the book so far. I'm trying to crystallize exactly why I feel this way, and the best I can seem to come up with so far is that usually Brubaker’s cap is a very tight compressed book, in which we usually get a lot of character development and advancement of a decent number of plot threads in an issue, and this issue on the other hand focused on one big thing instead. I can see why Brubaker choose to do it that way, and indeed it probably had to be done that way, but I just didn’t find it quite as satisfying as the average issue of his Cap. Still I should point out that from me that’s fairly faint criticism, since in general I have found Captain America to be perhaps the most satisfying monthly read on the stands lately. And I guess despite being the alleged end for Steve Rogers it’s the beginning issue for a big arc, so I might be more positive about the issue once I’ve read more of the arc.

On another note I found the panel on the last page with the eye gazing out more viscerally affecting than any amount of splatter gore I’ve ever seen in a comic book, so I highly commend all concerned for little touch.

All in all I’m happy rate the issue as the best comic of the week, and quite probably the vest of the month – but just not as one of the best issues of Brubaker’s Cap.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:36 / 10.03.07
this was double-sized!?!? Wow, certainly didn't feel like it, as it was mostly (as you pointed out) all the main character reflecting on Cap and then he gets shot. Very much a 'set-up' issue to kick off the story, with the only real action happening at the very end...
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:40 / 10.03.07
I've checked again - it's actually more like 1.5 sized - 32 story pages. Before I checked I just assumed double sized.
 
 
Mario
20:35 / 10.03.07
Flyboy: Probably by people who haven't been reading the book. The fan boards all seem to be treating this as part of the CW aftermath, as opposed to the culmination of Brubaker's storylines.
 
 
Mark Parsons
01:18 / 11.03.07
but it is CW fallout, at least in terms of current MU context. Brube planned this event in his Cap meta-arc, but I imagine if there had been no CW, the capped Cap story point would not have occured in a context where there was an authoritarian take-over of the superhero community/SHEILD/US government. The current status quo makes what happens to the character all the more disquieting and dark.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:30 / 12.03.07
"Marvel Comics, if you love Steve Rogers and you wish to honor him, you will see to it that he stays dead—it’s really the only way to truly honor this hero after a story of this magnitude. If not then stab at all your eyes, the way you have stabbed all of our hearts."

From Newsarama's Best Shots review.

Comics fans really are crazy, aren't they?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
15:33 / 12.03.07
"Some online guy is telling us to stab at all our eyes."
"Does he mean our own eyes? Or do we stab at each other's?"
"Could we all stand in a circle and sort of stab to the left?"
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
16:41 / 13.03.07
SPOILERS














It looks like Cap's, probably very temporary, replacement has been found...



That's from a variant cover to Punisher War Journals: Civil War #7. I call him 'CaPunisher' The use of bullets for the skull logo's teeth gives me a special feeling. As do the Deathstroke style flared boots.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:51 / 13.03.07
Presumably Frank's not actually going to leave the house like that, is he?

All right, those are big guns, but I still can't help feeling that people might ... not respect him as much.

On a separate note, what does anyone who's read the issue make of the rumour that it was Frank who shot Captain America, in a botched attempt to rescue him? Is it at all credible, or just loony bollocks?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:09 / 13.03.07
Comic Book Resources mentions a list of PREVIOUS CAP DEATHS, both literal and symbolic. Fun stuff.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:12 / 13.03.07
oh, and if memory serves from my readnnig of the Cap death issue, it's Crossbones that shot at Cap and Frank was nowhere to be seen. So the Frank rumor is bollocks.

Although of interest is that subsequent shots into Cap's midsection (to finish what the Red Skull-enlisted sniper started) were fired by Cap's own lady love, Sharon Carter, who'd been brainwashed/hypnotized into shooting Cap when certain trigger events happened a la Sirhan Sirhan.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:20 / 13.03.07
Wow, that Punisher costume (if it's not a fake/misdirection from Marvel, as they did with the fake new FF roster cover some months back - which featured the Silver Surfer as part of the new FF, or the 'Initiative' one-shot cover Marvel released with Iron Man colored red white and blue) is pretty silly. The goggles crack me up.

>> The use of bullets for the skull logo's teeth gives me a special feeling.

These have usually been part of the Punisher's design, even back since the original 70s appearances....but in recent years most artists have eschewed this toothy detail.

What will Frank's tagline be as the self-proclaimed 'new Cap'? "America's back...scumbags beware"? Look for the Winter Solider to mix it up with Frank and take away the Cap 'mantle,' after which Bucky will become the new Cap (the costume will conceal his cyborg arm or whatever).
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:53 / 13.03.07
Wouldn't the above costume be better if, between the bottom of the belt and the top of the boots, Frank was simply wearing a pair of Speedo swimming trunks, with an 'A' on the crotch?
 
 
murphy
00:09 / 14.03.07
At last: an image of Captain America consistent with American foreign policy.
 
 
murphy
00:10 / 14.03.07
And really, when is Frank so damned big? He looks like he ate the Thing.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:35 / 14.03.07
Er... remember that comic about a football superhero or something? This costume reminds me of that. My word is that some horrendous design.
 
 
murphy
02:24 / 14.03.07
remember that comic about a football superhero or something?

SUPER PRO!!

He should be the new Captain America!
 
 
murphy
02:25 / 14.03.07
What the hell could Frank possibly be carrying in all of those little pouches?
 
 
murphy
02:37 / 14.03.07
The Marvel.com catalogue has this as the first line describing PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #7:

"I want Frank Castle -- the scourge of the underworld -- to die in the Sonoma desert playing dress-up.”

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

A
L
E
R
T

(Alright, this probably isn't any sort of spoiler at all, but I like feeling as if I'm in the know)

This, my friends, is a clue. As I fondly recalled up above, when the U.S. Government wanted Johnny "I used to be Cap but then I went crazy" Walker to be U.S. Agent, they faked his assassination. The trigger man? None other than the Scourge of the Underworld.

Matt Fraction is dropping hints. Steve Rogers isn't really dead (no duh), but the Feds want to use him in some other way, and Cap, all sullen and mia culpa due to his "we're not winning the argument" moment of clarity in CIVIL WAR is going along, just so he can make things right again.

How do you like that?
 
 
Spaniel
15:38 / 14.03.07
Alex, in addition to Finder's comments, I've have a feeling - although I'm not sure why as I don't have the issues in question to hand - that Frank's been set up recently as someone who really respects Captain America. Like a fanboy respects Han Solo.
 
  

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