BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Conversation >

SBR - Sex Work

  
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
19:16 / 04.03.07
Update: I went to the local club to see what the environment was actually like. There wasn't a lot of focus on the pole, but what there was was absolutely amazing and beautiful. (I found out later that I'd been watching a professional ballerina and the two-time winner of Miss Striptease in Slovakia.) So I went to the manager and asked how one went about getting started, and she basically told me, "show up tomorrow." So...it seemed like either dive in or don't. So I did. And last night was my second night working as a erotic dancer.

The manager and work environment are really nice and friendly, and the dancing I haven't got too many problems with, except for newbie awkwardness and inexperience. Nudity is fine. What I'm finding strange is approaching people and striking up the pre-dance conversations. How real and/or personal is this interaction supposed to be? A lot of the customers seem to be looking for someone they can actually talk to; at the same time they want to catch me in a lie, to prove that my interest in them is monetary and not real. Which seems silly to me, because I'm not trying to sell a personal interest; I'm answering questions honestly in an effort to be friendly and chatty, but if you're looking for an interaction that's devoid of money, why go to a strip club?

The focus here is mostly on lap dances, and I'd rather be focusing on pole, so I'm thinking this is a good place to get my feet wet for a little while (not too strict or upscale, and the other dancers are all really nice about teaching me things). Then when I feel like I'm a little bit more experienced, I can start looking around for a place where I can do more pole stuff. (And maybe a place that has less chart music?)

Still looking around for those earplugs...I did get sunscreen to protect from the blacklights, although I have no idea if that's effective at all. The smoke is yucky too.

But for the most part the past two nights have been really really fun and exciting. I've been getting this little jolt in my stomach all day whenever I think about what I did last night. Don't know if that's good or bad, but it's certainly something.

Oh and i did talk it over with the SO, who said that it was ok if it was going to make me happy. Yay!!!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:49 / 04.03.07
Glad it's going so well.

Would you have a ... photograph, of your work, that you'd care to share with Barbelith, at all?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:54 / 04.03.07
I wonder if anyone else on all of Barbelith could get away with asking that.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
20:03 / 04.03.07
not at the moment, grandma, but if anything picturesque happens i'll let you know.
 
 
Quantum
23:58 / 04.03.07
Grandma- would *you* have a photograph of your work that you'd care to share with Barbelith? Age before beauty and all...
 
 
Spaniel
07:41 / 05.03.07
Sounds cool, Laoi
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:03 / 05.03.07
So we've got the location for the next Barbemeet sorted out then?

Seriously though, well done Laoi. Glad you got to give it a go.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
00:36 / 19.03.07
Apologies for resurrecting my own thread again, but I have just informed the parents of my career and now would like barbelith's guidance.

The long and short of it is that they insist on seeing anyone who works at a stripclub as exploited, no matter their reasons for working there. Sexual objectification = badbadbad. My father was quick to emphasize that he doesn't judge the dancers; only the "sex depraved" men who would go to such places. I responded by saying that you can't judge the customers as predators without judging the dancers victims, which does them no favors; he admitted that this was true but said he still believes that this is the case.

Part of my job is to go begin conversations with customers, leading up to asking if they'd like a private dance. This is the most difficult part of the job for me, because while dancing is fun and natural, conversation is not always so. In order to make it as comfortable as possible I try to be very open and honest, and I sometimes end up in half-hour conversations or more. This isn't a good money-making strategy, but it's kept the job interesting and fun--I have met some jerks, but I've also met nice, intelligent and open-minded people. After a long conversation, some of them seem to be fighting to reconcile "person" with "sex object" in their heads. Some have no problem with it; others have told me "I can't get a dance from you now, we've talked too much and you're such a cool person." Either way, I know that I've presented myself as a human being, and I'm not worried about being objectified. When I told my parents this, they said I was delusional.

This upset me a lot, as it seems to be statement that brooks no argument; they're not going to listen to anything if they've decided I'm delusional.

So at this point it looks like I will just have to stop worrying about how my parents see me, if I want to do what I want to do. But this is slightly depressing, as they've been very understanding in the past, not to mention rather proud of me.

And yes, it would have been easier if I'd just kept my mouth shut.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
01:02 / 19.03.07
PS by "guidance" I didn't mean so much that I was asking for advice. Rather, I'd like to hear what people's ideas are on this subject in general so I can get a better feel for the various arguments out there, and hopefully there can be a proper H&S/SBR discussion. So:

Do you think sex workers are necessarily exploited and/or objectified?

If so, do you think this is a legitimate reason not to engage in sex work?

If not, do you think that sex workers are exploiting their audience?

Do you think an individual dancer can have an impact on the way sex work is perceived and approached? What changes would you seek, and what would your methods be?

What would your "line" for your children be, and why? (Would you not allow them to get into the industry? Would you allow them to pole dance but only if they kept their clothes on? Would you allow them to strip but not make physical contact with customers?)

Do you think the audience should affect the intentions of the artist? Not the most objectively phrased question, I'm aware, but that is where I like to think I'm coming from.

Feel free to answer any or none.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:24 / 19.03.07
I suppose the thing to do would be to consider yourself as part of the entertainment industry, and in that sense no more morally open to question than say, I don't know, Kate Winslett would be, after having agreed to go topless in a movie.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
01:28 / 19.03.07
I'm not having so much a problem with how I'm considering myself at the moment, since I'm still pretty confident about my own motives and capabilities. I think I'll have a problem selling the Kate Winslet argument to my parents.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:07 / 19.03.07
I don't really get what you're asking for, then, since you just said you weren't asking for advice, i.e. arguments that would help convince your parents, but rather just people's thoughts on the subject.
 
 
Papess
13:42 / 19.03.07
Do you think sex workers are necessarily exploited and/or objectified?

Yes and no. There is no doubt that there is exploitation. Not that the work is inherently exploitive, but the working conditions are. Why? Because of the piss-poor attitude of most governments to do anything, and the ignorance of most people. I have seen feminists argue that sex work, isn't really work. I find _that_ attitude just opens the door to those who want to exploit us, mainly because it is dismissive.


If so, do you think this is a legitimate reason not to engage in sex work?

Yes. Unless you want to change it.

If not, do you think that sex workers are exploiting their audience?

No, but it does happen. I don't have too much sympathy for customers that go to strip clubs or hire escorts looking for a gf, and then complain that their money is all gone. Personally, I would love to see the day where "exploitation" and "sex work" are not synonymous.

Do you think an individual dancer can have an impact on the way sex work is perceived and approached?

Yes and no, again. I have been trying to do this for years. First I had to sort it out for myself. However, one person is not enough - which is why sex workers are always talking about solidarity. You know what they say: One woman bitches and it's PMS - A thousand, and it is political clout.

What changes would you seek, and what would your methods be?

Working conditions and everything that entails. I have tried the non-profit organization route, and found I was just dealing with a small group of women who were acquiring funds from the government for HIV/AIDS awareness campaigns, but very poorly representing actual sex work and workers. In effect, it was more like they were perpetuating the exploitation by being the government's bitch.

What would your "line" for your children be, and why? (Would you not allow them to get into the industry? Would you allow them to pole dance but only if they kept their clothes on? Would you allow them to strip but not make physical contact with customers?)

I have told my son that I am an entertainer. As for the other questions, I wouldn't be able to stop or allow an adult child to do anything. They are an adult.

Do you think the audience should affect the intentions of the artist?

Take the sex out of the equation and ask yourself that again.
 
 
Leigh Monster loses its cool
15:54 / 19.03.07
I don't really get what you're asking for, then, since you just said you weren't asking for advice, i.e. arguments that would help convince your parents, but rather just people's thoughts on the subject.

Sorry for not being more clear. I'm asking because, while I wasn't surprised that my parents disapproved, I ended up being surprised by the form that their disapproval took (the idea that the sex industry itself is basically unchangeably evil) and now I'm curious about what other people's grounds for approval/disapproval of the scene are. I'm not actually asking for arguments that would help convince them, nor am I asking for new labels for what I do; I'll be doing the same work whatever I call myself.

(Anyway, Granny, Ireland already recognizes me as an entertainer, and therefore nontaxable.)

This is the first time I've ever heard my parents express what I consider a conservative viewpoint. Although I sought this work because I was interested in its artistic aspect, I'm now being told that not only does no one else see it as artistic, but that I am incapable of making anyone see it as artistic. Or, as I'm hearing it, that basically sexual appreciation is a barrier to any other kind of appreciation, which makes my dancing not worthwhile when the audience is taken into account. I personally believe this is bullshit, but it was a view espoused by people whose opinions I generally respect. So now I want to discuss it with other people whose opinions I respect, and hear their viewpoints as well.
 
 
Papess
17:17 / 19.03.07
I'm now being told that not only does no one else see it as artistic, but that I am incapable of making anyone see it as artistic.

I just want to hug you, laoi. I remember when that bubble was burst for me. I was sitting with a female friend of mine, who incedently was a fashion model, and I was complaining about this feature dancer - way back when we had feature dancers. I remember saying "She does nothing on stage! She is a no-talent bimbo giving strippers a bad name!" My friend looked at me as if I was from another planet and said, "Strippers already have a bad name.". It was a sobering moment.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:31 / 22.03.07
(Anyway, Granny, Ireland already recognizes me as an entertainer, and therefore nontaxable.)

I'm thinking of moving to Ireland, myself, actually.

I don't know if this is necessarily such a good idea, but, all the same, I see myself as a sort of celebrated pub wit, poet, stand-up comedian and prize-winning, earthy, novelist.

If I'm going to go ahead with ths (and I think I am, even though I've been asked, often, and in no uncertain terms, not to) it all seems a bit easier if it's done in Ireland, what with the funding, and such; accordingly, which part of the Emerald place would you guys recommend? In terms of maximum enjoyment, minimum hassle?

(It's my understanding that one can do anything one wants in Ireland, and it would weary me terribly if it turned out that this wasn't the case.)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:37 / 22.03.07
All of which is off the point - 'pologies for threadrot.

I just had to get it out, you know?
 
 
Lama glama
23:15 / 22.03.07
celebrated pub wit, poet, stand-up comedian and prize-winning, earthy, novelist.

Galway it is, AG.
 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
  
Add Your Reply