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SBR - Sex Work

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13:57 / 06.02.07

Strip joint is one place I wouldn't want to go alone

But you're considering working there? I think you may want to look into it more thoroughly, and really imagine what implications becoming an erotic dancer might have for you. It may be your perfect career, it may be an idle fantasy, but like being a firefighter or astronaut it is one of those professions where the reality is quite different to the perception from the 'outside'.
I'd advise asking someone who already does it (take up Justrix's kind offer) and considering similar work that provides what you're looking for. Strippergram work for example.

14:04 / 06.02.07

More than meets the eye in stripping, but in any career I suspect; Astronaut in bizarre kidnap plot.

21:33 / 06.02.07

I am not certain how the story from that link about the nutty astronaut relates to sex work, Quantum.

*scratches head*

And Grant, I think I am going to have to apologize everytime someone brings that thread on sex work back up from the annals of the HeadShop.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:37 / 06.02.07

I am not certain how the story from that link about the nutty astronaut relates to sex work, Quantum.

Think Quantum was referring to there being potential dangers in *any* job, not just sex work. I really want to write a novel about horrible astronaut love triangles, now. I'm going to work on that tonight.

Glenn Close But No Cigar

22:08 / 06.02.07

laoi, what strikes me about your original post isn't the fact that you're considering working as an 'exotic' model / dancer, but that you are doing so because you're broke.

In purely practical terms, such work is rarely, if ever, the answer to financial problems. The pay may seem ok, but it's very likely not to be what it seems (photographers / agents etc will dip into your pay-packet on spurious yet practically unarguable grounds, as will strip club proprietors - hell, these guys sometimes won't pay you at all, figuring you'll be too ashamed to take things further). Then there's tax / NI on top of that. Will you register as self-employed? More importantly, such businesses are set up to create a dependency among their workers / contractors so they stay in the industry until it's used 'em up - everything from an odd-hours culture to a drug culture is employed to these ends. You may, of course, get lucky and not experience the shit that these industries throw their workers' way, but it's likely you will.

I know that the idea of being a writer / artist etc who has funded thier meisterwerk through labouring in a darkly sexy industry may seem attractive, but in reality it's a rubbish idea. I have no notion of what your skill-set is, but there must be a number of less compromising / emotionally gruelling and more lucrative 'money jobs' you can pursue. Hell, T.S. Eliot worked as a clerk, Henri Rousseau worked as a customs officer, and Einstein worked at the patent office...

Leigh Monster loses its cool

22:48 / 06.02.07

woah...thanks grant.

mrph. I usually tend to start thinking of it when I'm doing job searches, which is something I do when I need money. but i don't want to be a writer / artist etc who has funded thier meisterwerk through labouring in a darkly sexy industry. If I were to get into it, I would want the laboring in the darkly sexy industry to be the meisterwork.

00:28 / 07.02.07

I think I am going to have to apologize everytime someone brings that thread on sex work back up

What for??

03:19 / 07.02.07

Grant, let's say it wasn't my most thoughtful representation.

Think Quantum was referring to there being potential dangers in *any* job, not just sex work. I really want to write a novel about horrible astronaut love triangles, now. I'm going to work on that tonight.

Thank you, Papers. Of course, being an astronaut, even without the crazy love triangle is dangerous enough!

I would want the laboring in the darkly sexy industry to be the meisterwork.

Now _that_ is a great attitude, loai! If you are smart and safe there is no reason why you cannot overcome obstacles in the industry. Many people have done well in sex work. Others haven't done well at all. It is important to have focus everytime you work. Don't feel ashamed because you need the money and want to earn it that way. Don't let anyone else's hang ups about how awful it is for you to have to do sex work inhibit you, or bully you about taxes. (As good an idea as it is to pay income tax, I sympathize with sex workers who don't. When the government puts more effort into elevating the standards in their working conditions, maybe some of these workers would feel justified giving up more of their hard earned cash for income tax purposes. Where I live, the the women pay to work now when we used to receive pay - there is your tax money, ya fuckin' idiots. The government doesn't do anything to prevent that kind of blatant exploitation of women in the sex industry, even the legal and legitimate areas. Who is making these decisions for us?)

The problem begins, and is sustained, through people looking down their nose at sex work and sex workers. If society had a considerate and respectful approach to these workers, maybe I wouldn't have to hear or read once again just how terrible it is to have to choose such an occupation. One would think that since there is so much known corruption in the industry, that someone might have done something about it by now.

09:06 / 07.02.07

I am not certain how the story from that link about the nutty astronaut relates to sex work, Quantum

Just to clarify, it was an illustration of how the career you imagine might not turn out according to plan. I'm sure when that woman was a little girl dreaming of being an astronaut she never suspected it would lead to driving 950 miles in adult diapers to kidnap another astronaut.

09:31 / 07.02.07

You might be interested in Gypsy Rose Lee, laoi. Have you looked into burlesque?

09:40 / 07.02.07

*Slaps head*

God yes, why didn't I think of that?

The world of Burlesque could well afford you the opportunity to strip, dance and have fun, in front of an audience in an entirely safe environment, and wouldn't involve commiting yourself to a new career.

A bunch of my fiance's mates are into it, perhaps I could get you some pointers from them.

11:41 / 07.02.07

Thanks Quantum, and good point!

I am with Boboss, the burlesque idea is good idea as far as saftey concerns go. However, as Quantum points out, danger, known and unknown, exists in every occupation. Burlesque is fun and as an erotic artform it is not as raw as striptease and has more dramatic components to it. One can be satirical and provide social commentary in burlesque, because of the comedic nature of burlesque. Striptease came from burlesque but I would illustrate the difference between the two erotic dance forms with a comparison between circa 1970's porn flicks and current internet porn.

Something to think about would be costuming. Striptease doesn't require the amount of costumes that burlesque would. This will require an investment, but it is possible, if you are creative, to do this on the cheap with second-hand clothes. Maybe you already have an entirely funky wardrobe.

Also, burlesque is not usually as lucrative as striptease unless you make a name for yourself, which would require much more dedication than regular striptease.

12:42 / 07.02.07

Well, to be fair I wasn't thinking about Laoi getting into it as a business. There's lots of amateur burlesque stripping out there, as far as I know.

But then, yeah, Laoi is interested in making some money, and Burlesque may be a way into doing that.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:10 / 07.02.07

I am so, so, so suspicious of burlesque as it is conceptualised in 2007 - it seems to be to striptease as 'erotica' is to 'pornography', i.e. an acceptable upper middle class and ultimately far too painfully self-conscious to ever be sexy version of the same. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, though.

13:13 / 07.02.07

I think amateur burlesque may be quite like that (for example, there is a burlesque fair selling corsets etc. in Hove next week, almost certainly guaranteed to be the least sexy thing ever) but good burlesque is hotthotthott. Especially in Berlin I've heard.

Leigh Monster loses its cool

13:18 / 07.02.07

I hadn't thought of that. But isn't burlesque pretty comic?
I'm not very funny =/

Leigh Monster loses its cool

13:19 / 07.02.07

goddamn another xpostredundantdoublepostthingy. DAMN MY BROWSER

14:33 / 07.02.07

I am so, so, so suspicious of burlesque as it is conceptualised in 2007 - it seems to be to striptease as 'erotica' is to 'pornography', i.e. an acceptable upper middle class and ultimately far too painfully self-conscious to ever be sexy version of the same. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, though.

That is quite similar to what I said, except I am not suspicious because I understand where it comes from and why it is re-emerging now. Ther is a gap in the industry since lap-dancing has been widely available in North America, especially in Canada. Lap-dancing, and private booth dancing are all the rage in strip clubs, thus the performance aspect of the business, the art of it, is nearly lost. I know that there are adult entertainers who want to bring back the art of the business, yet it is not encouraged by the proprietors of strip clubs. Burlesque is finding it's own audience recently, and I for one am quite pleased with that. It is not meant to be pornographic because there is a broad spectrum of personal taste to service in the sex industry, and raw porn-like performance is only one aspect of it.

Loai, that comedic element may come easier than you think once the clothes are off!

Leigh Monster loses its cool

14:43 / 07.02.07

thanks justrix =/

14:52 / 07.02.07

I'm not sure how sexy modern (British) Burlesque is, but I think to view it entirely through those goggles would be a mistake. As far as I can see there's a thriving Burlesque scene, and scenes are complicated beasts with a lot of ins and a lot of outs, and tend to be entertaining in a variety of ways, sexiness being but one.

15:05 / 07.02.07

Loai, that comedic element may come easier than you think once the clothes are off!

thanks justrix =/

That may be interpretted incorrectly. Pardon me, Loai!

What I mean is there is a certain charming and comical nevousness that being semi-naked in public brings. After a few years this will fade, but almost all new dancers have this charming nervous innocence when they first start out. People tend to use humour when they are nervous a lot.

I have a friend who recently choreographed and performed a piece of burlesque where she gives birth to her own giant clitoris. It was titilating, hilarious, and definately had some social commentary! She is also currently working on her masters degree. I am so proud of her.

15:34 / 07.02.07

laoi, I have a question- in the abstract it says 'how not to disappoint granny'. What's that about then?

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:40 / 07.02.07

Ze's one of the most respected members of Barbelith!

In hir own mind, anyway.

Hir poor, gin-sodden mind.

Leigh Monster loses its cool

16:05 / 07.02.07

not disappointing granny...meaning how could i hypothetically do this without making my family feel that they've somehow failed in my upbringing.

So far i see the options being either do it while i'm in a foreign country and make sure they never find out, or have a long, excruciatingly embarrassing discussion with them about my artistic beliefs and goals regarding sex and sexual representation. the former is easier, the latter is possibly more moral but far more awkward and could get me drowned in a roiling sea of misunderstanding.

as to not disappointing alex's grandma, i fear it's a lost cause.

18:05 / 07.02.07

The Great Boston Burlesque Expo

shows include performers such as The Dead Dolls:

The Dead Doll Dancers came about as part of Travesty Theatre?s thematic cabarets starting back in 2001 producing fine classics as the ?anti-capitalism cabaret? or the superbly tasteless ?kabareich? the ?real and authentic? German cabaret, our infamous ?fetish cabaret? and ?commercial chri$tma$ cabaret? out of all which developed a group of zombie like show dancing girls with extremely bad taste in lingerie and terrible makeup.

Me, I'm going for the hooping.

Leigh Monster loses its cool

18:48 / 07.02.07

aw, the classes look awesome. poi and bellydance for burlesque. wish they weren't a bajillion miles away.

08:19 / 08.02.07

I know what you mean about dissapointing Granny laoi.
When I did my brief, never brought to fruition, stint as a rent boy, my mom found my website.

www.renthisstudent.co.uk was not a converstaion I ever wanted to have with my mother. She works in mental health and focuses on the survivors of sexual abuse, so the first thing she said was along the lines of "but we didn't rape you".

I'm trying to start an interesting side line in art-porn at the moment, so I'm just lying to my family about it. The use of pseudonyms can rockk too.

Leigh Monster loses its cool

09:45 / 08.02.07

haha. god, i'm sorry you had to go through that.

how is your art porn doing? would you mind expanding on it a little? is it an easy thing to conceive of/has it been well-received by those who have seen it?

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:27 / 08.02.07

meaning how could i hypothetically do this without making my family feel that they've somehow failed in my upbringing.

So far i see the options being either do it while i'm in a foreign country and make sure they never find out, or have a long, excruciatingly embarrassing discussion with them about my artistic beliefs and goals regarding sex and sexual representation.

Am I missing something, or should it be totally possible in theory to do this kind of thing without your family finding out, even if you live in the same country? You don't still live with your parents, do you? And it's none of their business unless you choose to make it their business, right?

Unless daddy frequents ever single strip joint and chaos-anarkist burlesque bar in town, of course.

11:27 / 08.02.07

The Art of Shameless Self-Promotion
Sauci Calla Horra & Honey B. Hind
(Skin Tight Outta Sight Rebel Burlesque)
90 minutes
So you've started performing burlesque and you are enjoying yourself! But how do you become well-known and get your foot in the door in your town? This workshop is geared to a small group (up to 15 in total) of performers who may be fairly new to burlesque, or are looking to upgrade their promotion skills. We will look at developing your persona, including your unique skills as a performer; tips and critique on performer/ troupe bios, photos and web materials; promotion etiquette; finding contacts/ allies in the media; and either working with your existing burlesque community or developing your own community from scratch, if that is where your town is at! We highly recommend participants to bring their existing promotional material to the class, for gentle critique. This class will use adult learning principles and will be geared to the unique needs of the group.

Awesome. I sure would love to attend this if I could.

Princess, it is a common notion that sex workers must have suffered some form of sexual abuse in order to do this kind of work. I am sure it happens, but of course it is quite an assupmtion that leads to further stereotyping and stigmatisation. It is funny, but my personal observation regarding sexual abuse survivors is the tendancy to turn to careers in counselling or social work of some kind. Of course, I don't draw the conclusion that all counsellors must have been abused!

I think what bothers me is the incredulous reaction some people have to those making the choice to do sex work who have their full faculties about them - that "...how could you..." response. It is like those incredulous people feel have to make up justifications or excuses for the perceived poor, degraded victims who grew up and now work in the sex industry.

12:51 / 08.02.07

I would like to mention also, loai, when and if you decide to dance, in whatever form, you may want to prepare your body for that with some strength and flexibility training, if you are not currently. It is very physically demanding work, (of course). There are certain physical ailments that dancers have in common and even specific to the nature or form of the dancing itself. A ballet dancer's toes, or the neck of a breakdancer, for example. Using the pole requires incredible strength in your hands and if you have one of those little squishy tension balls and use it, you will be thanking yourself when you get on stage.

Also, I just sent you an incomplete email by inadvertantly hitting some combination of keys I really could't duplicate, but then suddenly it was sent off and the profile for "matt, agent of shield" appears on the screen. Bizarre.

Anyway, the PM was about PDF's I have, that actually, another barbelither was kind enough to pass on to me a few years ago. They are about sex work that might be relevent to you geographically, that I could send you if you were interested in the socio-political aspects of sex work. I will have to a look for them if you would like to give them a read. Maybe I can find online versions. If not I can email them to you, if you are okay with that.

Leigh Monster loses its cool

16:36 / 08.02.07

And it's none of their business unless you choose to make it their business, right?

I was unsure about that, because i felt like it was kind of akin to keeping my political views or sexual orientation hidden from them for fear of disapproval, which didn't sit real well with me. but as of last night we've established that we're operating on a don't-ask-don't-tell system. so...guess that's out of the way.

Yay, Justrix, that would be awesome. I did assume i would have to train up if i was ever going to do this. i'm doing wushu and contortion these days, and i used to do aerial ropes, which has some similar tricks to pole but doesn't require quite as much raw strength. The thing that worries me most is that i'm shit at walking in heels.

17:37 / 08.02.07

How about sexy circus stuff?

19:01 / 08.02.07

Well there is a market for sexy clowns. A slightly wonderful looking porn film called "Cirque Noir" is flying off stands with rapididty. Other than the obvious allure of Buck Angel ("The Man With A Pussy")it also includes a contortionist and a young man reffered to as "Rimjob the Clown".
Possibly a bit more hardcore than you where aiming, but clowns+sex does seem to be a marketable gimmick.

22:48 / 08.02.07

The thing that worries me most is that i'm shit at walking in heels.

Try boots. Being able to wear socks and arch supports inside them can help with stability. Plus, since you seem like a pole worker, the thigh-high variety will protect your legs and are sticky to the metal poles. Until your body gets used doing certain moves repeatedly, you will notice certain spots getting bruised or raw. The inside of the thighs and arms are a couple of those places.

I was also thinking that it would be a very good idea to pick up some flesh coloured ear plugs. PLease listen to my experience in this regard while you are able. The noise in some clubs and certainly the repeated exposure to loud music has most certainly damaged my hearing. I would not wish this for you. I am lucky, it could be worse. And don't worry about not being able to hear anyone, you will as it doesn't block a hundred percent of the sound.

I just hooked up a chance to do a burlesque show with my friend! I love it when Barbelith and real life jive like that.

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