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New book about Grant Morrison's early career (Zenith, Animal Man, Doom Patrol)

 
  

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miss wonderstarr
20:19 / 15.01.07
Surely "anarchy": you hippy.
 
 
Ganesh
20:31 / 15.01.07
Anarchy? Hmmm...



(This pic from Sequart.com. Just to be vaguely on-topic.)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:31 / 15.01.07
I'm trying to get Tim's attention on here.

In a way, aren't we all?

What I would say, though, is to watch out for him. Of course to begin with it's all wine and roses, business class air tickets to exotic gated beach holiday resorts near the Bermuda Triangle and so forth, but it doesn't last.

When you're dealing with Tim sooner or later it all has to be paid for.
 
 
Ganesh
21:39 / 15.01.07
In sweat.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:40 / 15.01.07
To remain on-topic, apparently Zenith's Siadwel Rhys also announces "I'm ready" when dressed in his Red Dragon costume (after kicking his alcoholism), as a parallel superhero rebirth and another reason to consider these moments in, at least, an auteurist context.

from Sequart:

Another example of the fashion motif are the moment when Siadwel Rhys says "I'm ready now." He doesn't say those words until he has the old costume back on.
 
 
TimCallahan
00:32 / 16.01.07
Now to add a little bit of Tim to your lives...

By the way, sorry about Mike's overzealous promotion of the book and all that. He's just excited because the book has so many words in it and at least half of the words are pretty smart-sounding ones.

To answer some of the questions:
Has the book been extensively re-written? Nope. But it's been revised (since I wrote it as stand-alone columns and now it's an actual book, revisions were more than necessary), and it's now got hundreds of footnotes! If you're like me, you love the footnotes. The more, the better. If you're not like me, then that's cool too. Just skip the footnotes (and leave gaping holes in your life--seriously, no problem). It also has brand new chapters on Arkham and Gothic. Plus that infamous PHONE interview (emphasis Mike's--apparently he didn't even know they had phones that could talk between continents until a few weeks ago. Mike knows I'm kidding and he will not take revenge on my manuscript, right?)

Are there things I don't analyze in detail? Sure. I tried to look at the major themes and motifs from Grant's early work and focus on that stuff. The recursion. The big picture. The way the little details add up. You know, the stuff I thought was important. But, yeah, some stuff was overlooked. For Zenith alone, I had dozens of pages of notes and observations--only half of which I ended up using in my analysis. My book isn't a bunch of annotations. It presents a theory on how to read Grant Morrison. And gives lots of evidence of why he's so remarkable as a writer of comic books.

Why did I focus on the early stuff? The early stuff is GREAT, first of all. Second, I have seen a lot written about The Invisibles, but very little about his major work in his first decade as a pro. I wanted to show how the same stuff that garnered so much attention in the 90s was already fully-formed in his earlier work. Third, I plan on writing about his mid-career work at some point. If the book sells well, I'll begin analyzing Flex and JLA and The Invisibles immediately. I need to know people are interested in reading what I have to say before I (again) invest six to nine months of my life on this type of project.

Thanks for welcoming me to Barbelith, by the way. It's cool to be a part of it, finally.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:51 / 16.01.07
Six to nine months?

Christ.

I mean bloody hell ...

If you'll forgive me for saying this, you guys don't seem serious about this project at all.

My book about GM on the other hand ... I've been working on it for six to nine years.

Six to nine glorious, terrible (and now, it seems,) pointless, futile years.

I don't suppose I'll ever get them back, those years.

Gah.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
00:53 / 16.01.07
Especially since they're the years at the end, eh, Gram?
 
 
TimCallahan
01:00 / 16.01.07
If I spent six to nine YEARS on the next book, I wouldn't get it out before 2012, so what would be the point, Grandma?

We won't have much need for books then, now will we?
 
 
Char Aina
01:06 / 16.01.07
sh!
don't give away the ending!

apologies for my levity earlier. mocking the self-convinced is one of the few pleasures i have.
i may also have masked the fact that i am, genuinely, quite interested in your book.

one thing occurs...
as his career progresses, morrison is writing more and more titles. busy little beaver and all that; he writes several books at once, he told me.
what stuff are you dropping and what are you keeping?
do you consider ASS canon, for example?
 
 
TimCallahan
02:01 / 16.01.07
Ideally, I'd cover all the titles. But for the first volume, I ended up dropping stuff I considered "minor," such as: his non-Zenith 2000AD stuff, St. Swithin, Steed and Mrs. Peel, Sebastian O, Spawn and that's about it. For the later studies, I think I'll avoid all the Millar collaborations (though that might be an interesting study in-and-of-itself) and I don't know what else. All-Star Superman is definitely a MAJOR work, in my opinion. I think it's brilliant. I also plan to eventually cover Seaguy and We3 and smaller stuff like that.

But it's a good question. What do you guys consider the "Morrison Canon"? What could be ignored?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
04:43 / 16.01.07
Are there things I don't analyze in detail? Sure. I tried to look at the major themes and motifs from Grant's early work and focus on that stuff. The recursion. The big picture. The way the little details add up. You know, the stuff I thought was important. But, yeah, some stuff was overlooked. For Zenith alone, I had dozens of pages of notes and observations--only half of which I ended up using in my analysis. My book isn't a bunch of annotations. It presents a theory on how to read Grant Morrison. And gives lots of evidence of why he's so remarkable as a writer of comic books.


Well, the theoretical approach in the Zenith pieces seems to be literary criticism, picking up on recurrent textual themes and motifs; and the overriding conclusion emerging from those Zenith pieces seemed to be that these recurring themes and motifs create a kind of "fractal" model of the whole Zenith text. That is interesting, but I think there's a great deal more to say about those stories without the essays just becoming a heap of annotations.

I feel the use of pastiche and cultural borrowing (Richard Branson, Tim Burgess, Robot Archie, Desperate Dan) across the whole Zenith series is really important in terms of Morrison's construction of different historical and cultural periods ~ that the "villain" in Phase II is an 80s entrepreneur, and the "hero" throughout is an 80s pop star who loses his security and identity, and the doomed army from Phase III is from England in the 1940s, fighting a war from the DCU in the mid-1980s. It ties in closely with Morrison's commentary on Englishness in Dare, and St Swithins Day, and Hitler, all of which came out within a fairly short space of time (and then Big Dave tackled many similar ideas to Zenith ~ tabloid fame, celebrity ~ in caricature). Far from just being all clever-clever and knowing by drawing on cultural icons and making nods to almost-recognisable figures, I think Zenith's quotations from culture are part of a sustained exploration of World War Two Englishness compared and contrasted, and conflicted, with 1980s-1990s Englishness, that forms the core of all the important titles I've just mentioned.

As I said above, though, of course a person can choose his or her own approach and decide what to omit. I'm just making the point that I don't think what I suggested would result in a list of annotations; I think it's an important theme and strand throughout Morrison's work over, I don't know, 1988-1992 at least.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
05:10 / 16.01.07
One of the further points I'm trying to make is that the textual themes of "flying", "faith", "fashion", and the overall technique of textual "fractals", tend to analyse Zenith outside any specific cultural context. From the essays on those pages, Zenith could be about a bunch of generic superhumans and set in Seattle. Whereas I think it's key to Morrison's work on Zenith and maybe half a dozen of his other series of the same period that it's about Englishness ~ also significant that it's an English version of an American iconography and universe (multiple earths, generations of heroes), and quite possibly significant that it's written by someone who's "outside" England.

Again, you know, presuming this thread is about discussion and not just promotion.
 
 
Janean Patience
07:33 / 16.01.07
Wonderstarr: Isn't it significant that Maximan's started talking like Finnegans Wake? (or so it seemed to me.)

I always thought he was more Peter Stillman from Paul Auster's City of Glass. Still an inspired steal.
 
 
TimCallahan
19:27 / 16.01.07
I'm sure you're right Miss Wonderstarr, but I wasn't necessarily applying a Marxist lens to the work. Plus, as an American, I'm hardly the person to delve deeply into any analysis of Morrison's exploration of "Britishness."

But I'm not sure his exploration is necessarily just British, anyway. Surely the dichotomy between the modes of heroism and success in the 80s and the 40s is something anyone in the western world can understand. And I think I explore those themes in the work. Maybe not as much as you'd like.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:46 / 16.01.07
Thanks for replying, Tim.

I wasn't necessarily applying a Marxist lens to the work.

Me either! I don't know if anyone else saw my approach as Marxist?

Plus, as an American, I'm hardly the person to delve deeply into any analysis of Morrison's exploration of "Britishness."

No, fair enough ~ that might mean you lose an important frame of reference, but perhaps that's inevitable, not your fault and not necessary to make your study worthwhile.


But I'm not sure his exploration is necessarily just British, anyway. Surely the dichotomy between the modes of heroism and success in the 80s and the 40s is something anyone in the western world can understand.


Certainly I think it's something both British and American readers of Zenith should be able to understand, though I wonder if American readers are going to recognise and respond to it in the same way ~ after all, some British readers will have grown up with General Jumbo, Billy Whizz, the Q-Cars (? Z-Bikes I think) and the other innocent adventurers Morrison's bad guys are slaughtering in Phase III. Or alternatively, these are their dad's comic heroes being murdered, which is perhaps even more significant. It's something with a cultural impact like Cap'n Crunch weeping that he couldn't save Barbie's sister Skipper from being torn apart.

On one level, yes, it's like seeing Ted Kord and Alan Scott facing a terrible 1980s villain and realising they're in a darker age, but it does have a specifically British cultural resonance, I think... and I do maintain that Englishness in particular is key to a lot of Morrison's work. I don't see how anyone could examine St Swithin's Day, Dare and New Adventures of Hitler very meaningfully without examining what they say about England.


And I think I explore those themes in the work. Maybe not as much as you'd like.


No, that's probably true ~ and again, I understand where you're coming from here. I had a journal article refereed recently and I ended up saying pretty much the same thing in the response I had to write: "I think I've covered that... maybe you disagree but I thought I did it OK." (I said it better than that in the response).
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
23:06 / 16.01.07
Wonderstarr: ... and I do maintain that Englishness in particular is key to a lot of Morrison's work. I don't see how anyone could examine St Swithin's Day, Dare and New Adventures of Hitler very meaningfully without examining what they say about England.

Seriously, dude. Morrison's Scottish.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:27 / 17.01.07
Interesting point. To be honest, I'm not really sure that matters, any more than it matters that DC Thomson was a Scottish company - New Adventures of Hitler, Zenith and St Swithin's Day, in particular, are dealing with a post-imperial experience that is markedly different across the home nations. Hence the appearance of Siadwel Rhys (drunken, despairing, aggressive, impotently proud) and Archie McPhee (fastidious, attendant, resentful) in Zenith. Compare that with the models of 80s Englishness offered by, in particular, Zenith and Peter St. John.

Meanwhile... I'm always interested in more study of Zenith. I'll dip back into sequart at some point; I had a look during the application processing. One thing I did notice was the assumption that the original audience (readers of 2000AD) would be familiar with US comics - I'd be interested to do a sort of show-of-hands on that one.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:28 / 17.01.07
Hello, Colonel Kadmon. A little earlier, I said this: and quite possibly significant that it's written by someone who's "outside" England.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:28 / 17.01.07
But for the first volume, I ended up dropping stuff I considered "minor," such as: his non-Zenith 2000AD stuff, St. Swithin, Steed and Mrs. Peel, Sebastian O, Spawn and that's about it.

As long as Zoids made the grade, it's all I care about.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:54 / 18.01.07
Or alternatively, these are their dad's comic heroes being murdered, which is perhaps even more significant.

Zenith is not the funny paper of your fathers. He is the hidden stone that breaks all hearts. Break open your heart.
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
22:22 / 18.01.07
Hi Wonderstarr, Haus. Your points are fair, but I do think it's important. Had you said "Britishness", I wouldn't have argued. But Morrison's writing has been most successful of all in the US, so I presume it's safe to say that his themes resonate with people over there. If an American poster said that the key to his work was "American-ness, but from the viewpoint of an outsider", I'd challenge that too.

Morrison's an internationally recognised writer because his themes are international. Not "Englishness" or "American-ness" or even "Scottishness", but "Human-ness".

(I was going to say "Loch-ness", but I decided against it.)

"Britishness", as I said, I'd accept. But we're not so different up here, you know. Morrison has always taken pride in being Scottish, so to suggest that England is his inspiration is, I think, short-sighted. (I'm guessing you're English.)

But, with that, let us return to topic.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:36 / 18.01.07
Thanks, Colonel Kadmon. Could you tell me how many of the characters in Zenith Phase 3 are Scottish? Or, for that matter, how important Scotland is in "St Swithin's Day"?
 
 
Char Aina
22:39 / 18.01.07
i don't understand why you are aksing.
will your response to his answer clear that up?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:43 / 18.01.07
"Britishness", as I said, I'd accept. But we're not so different up here, you know. Morrison has always taken pride in being Scottish, so to suggest that England is his inspiration is, I think, short-sighted. (I'm guessing you're English.)

Can't it be "Britishness" in some cases and "Englishness as seen by a Scotsman" in other cases? Those are two different themes (I hesitate to use the word but it seems the most approrpriate) with wider implications and there's no reason he wouldn't examine "Englishness" as a distinct thing because of how he perceives it without being it. As you've said, he can be international as well, whatever that means (well, I suppose if the Justice League are looking down from the watchtower on the moon and Mozzer's writing about it...but that might be a lunar theme, and they're American heroes)... but then, I'm a Canadian.

There's something niggling in there about psychogeography and post-colonial theory there that I can't quite get ahold of.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:54 / 18.01.07
Because, and I hope I don't cause offence here, I don't think that what you're saying is really relevant to Zenith or to the discussion that is gong on here. Zenith phase 1, in particular, is primarily an alienated look at the world of 80s Britain, but more specifically the venality and artificiality of a series of worlds - fashion, pop music, politics - based in London. This is brought out when Zenith is dragged out of London, to Wales and Scotland, both of which he insults and about both of which he is profoundly rude. Phase 3 is primarily about the cut-glass, posh-boy heroes of the 1940s being destroyed by a reality for which they are utterly unprepared. Phase 4 - well, that's a bit different, but then it is also a coda, and sees us returning, in fact, to the insular, claustrophbic world (real and fake) of Zenith and Peter St John's London.

And, ultimately, Zenith was not aimed at an international audience, but at the readers of 2000AD, a British comic aimed at a readership with a broadly shared set of experiences. People are noting in this thread, in fact, the differences between coming to Zenith as a child reading 2000AD in Britain and somebody writing a critical appraisal of it from an adult and American perspective. I think you can certainly see a development in his work towards an international audience, but one in which _Britishness_ is often deployed as a textual exoticism. However, this work is produced in the expectation of a different audience.

One can say this of Mugatroyd without impugning his Scottishness or Scottishness in general, I think.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:55 / 18.01.07
i don't understand why you are aksing.
will your response to his answer clear that up?


Access of energy. Answered own question.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:59 / 19.01.07
But for the first volume, I ended up dropping stuff I considered "minor," such as: his non-Zenith 2000AD stuff, St. Swithin, Steed and Mrs. Peel, Sebastian O, Spawn and that's about it.

Fair enough, apart from perhaps the decision to drop 'St Swithin's Day,' which seems like a dry-run, thematically, for a lot of what happened in 'The Invisibles' give or take an expanded cast and the author's well-documented mystical/drug/foreign holiday experiences in the interim. There's the kid in the rain, the quest, the attack on the authority figure which is ultimately pointless (though not because said authority figure is undeserving of same, necessarily,) followed by the rapture. Swap the supercontext for The La's and there isn't much difference, twelve or so years of being relatively famous and having fun excepted.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
03:04 / 19.01.07
Grandma, I never actually thought of it like that. Off to read St Swithin's again, thanks!
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
14:41 / 19.01.07
All good points, Haus. Especially the idea of Britishness as exoticism emerging as his work becomes more international.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:53 / 19.01.07
Thanks, CK. I think you can look at Vimanarama, or the character of Dane in The Invisibles in that light, for example, although it's not a hard line...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:26 / 19.01.07
I think you can certainly see a development in his work towards an international audience, but one in which _Britishness_ is often deployed as a textual exoticism.

That's an interesting point with regard to the Mirror Master in Animal Man and JLA, and the Squire in JLA Confidential.

I agree with what I think Haus is suggesting about Zenith being specifically about Zenith as an epitome of (80s) Londonness (secular, self-obsessed, superficial), written from a position far outside London.

Maybe there is an interesting angle about the extent to which this is an outsider's view of London ~ it's all based around tourist, postcard sites, or stuff you could get from maps ("Where to now?" "The next stop! St James' Park!"). As I remember, there's a focus on fighting around the big icons (Big Ben) with big icons (big buses). There's no real sense that this is a Londoner's experience of the city.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:32 / 19.01.07
Morrison has always taken pride in being Scottish, so to suggest that England is his inspiration is, I think, short-sighted. (I'm guessing you're English.)

I'm not saying Englishness is his inspiration. I'm saying Zenith, St Swithins Day, Dare and whatever else I named are specifically about Englishness, more so than Britishness, and not about Scottishness.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:38 / 19.01.07
Could you tell me how many of the characters in Zenith Phase 3 are Scottish?

BUZZ

Two or three ~ Eddie, Spring Heeled Jock, possibly his dog Bobbie?
 
 
TimCallahan
19:28 / 19.01.07
I agree with what I think Haus is suggesting about Zenith being specifically about Zenith as an epitome of (80s) Londonness (secular, self-obsessed, superficial), written from a position far outside London.

See, from an American perspective, that type of Thatcherite London (secular, self-obsessed, superficial) seems to directly correspond to the Reagan America in which I was raised. Hence the "universality*" of Morrison's themes in that regard.

By the way, when I specifically asked Grant about the political nature of Zenith, he said, "I think Zenith is informed by the aura of Thatcherism--the hero is the ultimate yuppie in many ways and is a cynical acknowledgment of the central contradiction of the times--that so many of we raging left wing opponents of the Iron Lady were actually making some money, buying nice clothes and generally doing rather well for the first time in our miserable lives under the yoke of the tyrant."

I don't know if that answers the "Englishness" question, but it certainly addresses the 80s incarnation of it.

A little bonus excerpt from the book for the good people of Barbelith.

* If by universality we ignore much of the world that doesn't share our frame of reference. And that's what we Americans tend to think of as universality.
 
  

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