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petunia
21:35 / 08.01.07
Yes.... but.... No...

You're missing the point...

Did the sandwich packet look like a cunt?!

Well?

DID IT?!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:38 / 08.01.07
Does anyone else remember those maize snacks that all the boys were convinced smelled like ladybits at school? Maybe it was like that, but a sandwich and visual.
 
 
Jack Fear
21:50 / 08.01.07
This:

unless ze was secretly urinating in your coffee, but I doubt that

If she wasn't before eirdandfracar's little tantrum, she certainly will be in future.

Seriously, chief, it never pays to irritate the people who serve your food and drink.
 
 
petunia
22:01 / 08.01.07
Does anyone else remember those maize snacks that all the boys were convinced smelled like ladybits at school?

Scampi fries?

Visual scampi fries?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:02 / 08.01.07
Like FRIES in your EYES with a LADY SURPRISE.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:32 / 08.01.07
Nik-naks.

I am a little bit surprised that the word "cunt" is being used so frequently on this thread, as if it's OK and a bit jokey. I can see how paraphrasing Withnail & I is one form of context, and I think that was done on the previous page, but I'd thought maybe it wasn't a word that was used carelessly on Barbelith.

It does seem more ugly and unpleasant somehow to call a female coffee-shop worker a "cunt": quite possibly wasn't meant that way at all on this thread, but it seems to have a slightly different connotation when applied to a woman. I'd say this is because some men refer to women in general as "cunt" (same form as "pussy"), reducing them to their function as genitals, which are, like the women themselves (it seems to me, in that usage) both desired and held in contempt.

"Just some cunt", meaning "just some woman", seems to have a more derogatory overtone than "just some cunt" meaning "just some unpleasant guy". Perhaps because a man is only a "cunt" when he really annoys you, but to some men, all women are "cunt". Anyway. By using the word so often in this post, I seem to have robbed it of its meaning, which is another argument again...
 
 
Tsuga
23:00 / 08.01.07
There is a whole thread on the use and/or abuse of the word somewhere. Maybe you know that.

The only Withnail quote I can think of is "monty you terrible cunt!" which I suppose you're getting from Jack Fear's derivative What kind of poncy posh fuckstick orders a fucking cappuccino anyway? Black, no sugar, you unspeakable cunt.
Black, no sugar? Fucking blegh.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:10 / 08.01.07
In most cases, the word is, I think, being used as a critique of eidandfracar's original usage, MW. Jack might just be swearing like the English, in a kind of aspirational way, or might be doing that.

It's worth raising, though - a term bounced around in humorous criticism still has imapct outside the control of the user.
 
 
Jack Fear
01:52 / 09.01.07
"Aspirational"?

Ouch. You really know how to hurt a guy.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:03 / 09.01.07
The c-word always appeals to me on a base level because it's so gutterally sexy and powerful. "Ladybits," by contrast, evokes "ladyfingers" and my head goes to a schmoopy spongey strange place and actually sounds more detached in a bad way. I imagine Victorian women removing their ladybits to carry about in special purses to be reattached only for the purposes of self-induced hysteria.

As to what Haus just brought up, it's not always easy, I suppose, to make the context fully evident to all those who might hear a particular word used. Maybe we should wait until those telepathy machines are mass-produced.

Next problem to be solved?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
05:56 / 09.01.07
There is a whole thread on the use and/or abuse of the word somewhere. Maybe you know that.

No... I didn't. I still think it would have been OK to make a brief comment on this thread though, if I had known.


The only Withnail quote I can think of is "monty you terrible cunt!" which I suppose you're getting from Jack Fear's derivative What kind of poncy posh fuckstick orders a fucking cappuccino anyway? Black, no sugar, you unspeakable cunt.


Yes, you're right ~ and it wasn't really a reference to the film, you're right again. It put me in mind of the film's use of the word, certainly.

I think "cunt" as an alternative to something like "ladybits" isn't entirely relevant here, as the word was being used as an insult ("you worthless and annoying person") rather than as a description of the female genitals ~ I was suggesting that maybe it seems more derogatory when this word for a worthless and annoying person is applied to a woman. I wasn't for a moment suggesting that nobody might want to use the word "cunt" as a sexy or powerful word for their or someone else's genitals. Also, there's probably quite a wide scale of choice between "cunt" and "ladybits" ~ they're not the only two alternatives. But that's getting even more off-topic.

Anyway, I hear the question about usage of "cunt" on this thread has been solved, so I suppose that's that.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:00 / 09.01.07
Did the sandwich packet look like a cunt?!

Well?

DID IT?!


In turn, this puts me in mind of Sexy Beast and Pulp Fiction ("does he look like a bitch?"), so maybe there's a fair amount of "talking in pretend voices" going on here.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:21 / 09.01.07
But... I don't know if typing "in a voice" always comes with a clear context, and I don't know if that intended context entirely changes the fact that you end up with a thread where a... problematic (?) word appears many times without being questioned. (It was questioned on p2 by Mordant I think; which I was glad to see as it made me think I wasn't the only one who had any kind of issue with the word as an insult for a female barrista ~ but the "cunts" kept flying afterwards).

If I was doing Borat's "voice", or Jules from Pulp Fiction's "voice" textually on here, I might end up typing a lot of stuff that to me might seem in context as a joke, but still would involve potentially offensive words and ideas, which might jump out of the intended context and jar with people despite my notion that I was just "doing a voice".

I hope I'm not going on at great length here. I don't mean to complain and argue, exactly ~ I think it's interesting to discuss, though perhaps this isn't the right thread (although I am discussing it in this specific context, rather than in general).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:10 / 09.01.07
I think "cunt" as an alternative to something like "ladybits" isn't entirely relevant here, as the word was being used as an insult ("you worthless and annoying person") rather than as a description of the female genitals ~ I was suggesting that maybe it seems more derogatory when this word for a worthless and annoying person is applied to a woman. I wasn't for a moment suggesting that nobody might want to use the word "cunt" as a sexy or powerful word for their or someone else's genitals. Also, there's probably quite a wide scale of choice between "cunt" and "ladybits" ~ they're not the only two alternatives. But that's getting even more off-topic.

Agreed on all counts. If eidanfracar had been enjoying some hot loving with the barista, it might have been perfectly appropriate to have used the term. This is not the case, and nor is there no other word to describe a woman you don't like.

(It was questioned on p2 by Mordant I think; which I was glad to see as it made me think I wasn't the only one who had any kind of issue with the word as an insult for a female barrista ~ but the "cunts" kept flying afterwards).

Well, I think a lot of people had issues with the use of the term to describe a female barista, and many of the people who had issues with the use of the term in that way decided as a tactic to use the term as part of their means for highlighting those issues - either by employing it in a hyperbolic tirade against the barista themselves or by whimsical subversion of the meaning of eidanfracar's sentence. .trampetunia, in fact, employed both those mechanisms. Noting this is, I imagine, why MC told eidanfracar to reconsider his usage but not .trampetunia.

So, whereas, as I said above, the reception of a term cannot be entirely controlled by the user, if you feel that Mordant and you are the only people who have offered a critique of the description of a female barista as a cunt, then I think we have taken very different things from this thread.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:01 / 09.01.07
I can't help but think that if someone had pointed out to eirdandfracar about the whole 'cunt' issue some thirty hours ago a lot of this might have been avoided, as ze then spends a day not sure as to what ze is apologising for...
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:49 / 09.01.07
But without Iggy to act as our moral compass, who is to say what's right and what's wrong?

There is no black, there is no white, there is only grey!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:58 / 09.01.07
many of the people who had issues with the use of the term in that way decided as a tactic to use the term as part of their means for highlighting those issues - either by employing it in a hyperbolic tirade against the barista themselves or by whimsical subversion of the meaning of eidanfracar's sentence. .trampetunia, in fact, employed both those mechanisms. Noting this is, I imagine, why MC told eidanfracar to reconsider his usage but not .trampetunia.

Yeah, that's about the size of it, I think. That's why my comment to Eid was an invitation to reconsider his usage of the word rather than something more foreceful, and why I didn't pull up the other users. I read them as mocking the original usage (and I quite like the idea of fanny-shaped sandwich packets).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:09 / 09.01.07
Lady - I don't think that's what he was being expected to apologise for. I don't think he's being _expected_ to apologise for anything, really. He was getting a quite honest and I think (or at least, I _thought_) fairly comprehensible response to how the idea of him abusing workers at a coffee shop, and the language he was using, was making other people feel.
 
 
Quantum
10:24 / 09.01.07
fanny shaped sandwich packs

The V or 'chalice' is of course an ancient symbol for the female, echoed in the v-shaped design of modern sandwich packets, note in that example the tittilating 'splayed' opening that implies...
Sorry. I had to sit through the DaVinci Code last night. They do have fanny packs in the states though, don't they?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
10:25 / 09.01.07
OK, I get the size of it now... thanks for clarifying it. I had read the responses differently.
 
 
Olulabelle
11:40 / 09.01.07
many of the people who had issues with the use of the term in that way decided as a tactic to use the term as part of their means for highlighting those issues

Yes. I have just read this whole thread in one complete bite size (sandwich) package. I see that people were responding by using the term themselves, I did get that when I was reading Jack's posts and .trampetunia's for example.

However. If Mordant had not specifically brought up the use of the C word, then I would have felt compelled to. Whilst the problem with eirdenfracar's post was not specifically the use of the word and was actually more one of general distasteful behaviour recounted in a seemingly gleeful way, for me the use of the C word as abuse needed to be brought up specifially and individually and I am glad it has been addressed (outside of distate for the recounted story) by Mordant and Miss Wonderstarr.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:21 / 09.01.07
Well, I think it's possible to locate the problem in both the recounting of the tale and the use of language. But yes - just so, and here we have a perfectly good example of people not being able to control how what they say is received, here. I doubt anyone wanted to make uncommitted readers feel uncomfortable by their use of the term, but here we see that such discomfort was caused - or at least that it was seen as something that needed to be raised specifically.

So, object lesson. Rock!
 
  

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