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Cormac McCarthy

 
  

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calgodot
22:54 / 24.12.06
Cormac McCarthy is the greatest living American novelist.

My first encounter with his work was in college. I was a teaching assistant for a "Literature of the Vietnam War" class. Knowing of my Faulkner obsession (I once got drunk and slept on his grave), the instructor asked if I had ever read Blood Meridian. I went out and bought it, read it through in one weekend of whiskey and barbecue, considered burning everything I had ever written and becoming a Trappist as there was no way I'd ever write anything that could even piss in the shadow of that book. Instead I went and bought everything McCarthy ever wrote and read it in one summer.

I was living in New Mexico when All the Pretty Horses was released. Working at a corporate bookstore, I was lucky enough to get a copy of the publishers advance. Later I pushed copies onto customers, assuring them if they didn't read it they were damned to literary mediocrity for the rest of their lives. The corporate bookstore people so loved my diligence that they arranged to get me a copy of the manuscript of The Crossing. When Cities of the Plain showed up at my door, I drank coffee and colas to stay up all night reading it. It is one of three books that made me weep.

The Road is fantastic. I recommend it to everyone, even those who buy into the BS that McCarthy is difficult (he aint), inaccessible (hell no), or "artsy" (dont make me laugh bubba). Also eminently "accessible" and riveting is No Country for Old Men, soon to be a major motion picture.
 
 
matthew.
03:05 / 25.12.06
No Country For Old Men was accessible while still being difficult. It deals with some mature themes and yet its violence is cartoony. Some hardcore fans of McCarthy didn't like this book. I say pshaw! It's like an old-timey western. But your statement, that he's the greatest living American novelist. Hmmm.... I'd disagree. Certainly he's one of the best.
 
 
buttergun
08:33 / 25.12.06
I agree about the Road. I like it nearly as much as Blood Meridian, and I'm not even finished it yet.

Rumor is No Country was originally much longer, but the publisher asked McCarthy to cut it down, as they were uncomfortable promoting a "big book" in today's market. I wonder if this rumor is actually true.

I've also read he has several manuscripts in near-finished form; one of the great things about McCarthy is he publishes often...none of this "average of ten years between noves"/Pynchon kind of thing.
 
 
buttergun
03:59 / 26.12.06
Over halfway through, and damn if this isn't one of the best novels I've ever read. I sort of coaxed this thread into being with my comments in the "Against the Day" thread, where I compared the Pynchon book unfavorably to The Road. And I still feel that way -- 400+ pages into Against the Day, and it's getting to be a chore. But the Road...in only 130 pages, it's not only captured my imagination but has it in the palm of its grip.

The great thing about McCarthy, by the way, is the feeling, when reading his books, that you are getting the full impact of the fictive experience. His books are Novels, capital N.

And here's another thing. I thought I'd spotted a foible in The Road. There's a part early on where the Boy is running a toy truck along the road, "making truck noises." Now, as readers of the novel know, the boy was born after the nuclear war (I presume) which destroyed the Earth. So, I snidely wondered, HOW did the boy know what a truck sounded like?

It was only later in the book, when the man ruminated over how he'd stopped telling the Boy stories of the past, when I realized the reason why. Because -- and this is the heartbreak which is at the center of the novel -- the boy only knows what his father has told him of the vanished world. Once you realize this, the bleakness and desolation of the novel really hit home.

But the thing is, as bleak and desolate as the story is, you can't help reading it. It's just so fucking great. McCarthy's prose is poetry, really; like if Christopher Logue wrote novels instead of "reinterpretations" of the Iliad. The words he uses for commonplace things give them a spin of mystery and wonder. Only in a McCarthy novel will someone stand on the "tang" of a shovel.

As a kid in the eighties I was fascinated by those "men's adventure" type books which took place after a nuclear war. Serial novels like The Survivalist and The Last Ranger. Back then, as an 11 year-old enraptured with these books, I got the idea the post-nuclear world would be a Mad Max type adventure with blazing gun action. But McCarthy has written the ultimate post-nuclear war novel, one which shows in a clear light what such a world would really be like. (And, it goes without saying, his writing is about a million times beyond the authors of those action novels in the '80s).

The Road is a book I want to shout to the world to read.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:00 / 26.12.06
I'm really looking forward to The Road. I loved the Border trilogy (All The Pretty Horses, The Crossing and Cities Of The Plain) and Blood Meridian really IS like listening to Nick Cave doing his Old Testament thing.

The Crossing has one of my favourite pieces of writing ever in it (the part where the wolf dies, which I keep rereading and which makes me cry every time, and which is in the commonplace thread).

I love his prose. I love the sense of loss, on so many levels, that comes through all the way throughout the Border trilogy. Every single character in it loses eveything they love most dearly, and the whole world they were born for is one that doesn't exist anymore (I'm wondering if this is the same idea he's going for in The Road, albeit in an SF way). It's all so heartbreakingly sad, but so beautiful at the same time. After reading the trilogy it was a very hard series of books to shake off. I keep resisting the temptation to go back and start all over again.
 
 
van dyke
20:17 / 27.12.06
Just read the thread on Cormac McCarthy. Yes, he's great, possibly the greatest living American novelist, but I haven't read them all, so who am I to say. All I can say is what I've said before on Barbelith, that for my money he's the best. I was going to get the latest Pynchon as a present, but changed the request to The Road at the last minute. Judging by all the lit.crits. I've read, it was the correct decision. I've got a pile of books to read and the problem I find with reading McCarthy is that his prose is so powerful that reading another novel immediatley afterwards is like trying to see clearly after staring at the sun. It takes a while to readjust. But very much worth it.
 
 
Dusto
15:43 / 02.01.07
I really want to get into Cormac McCarthy. People whose opinions I respect keep telling me how great he is. But I still haven't managed to finish one of his books. I think my problem with him is that he's not very amusing. Perhaps it's my own fault as a reader, but I find it difficult to take things seriously unless they're funny. Which is why I think Pynchon is the greatest living American novelist. Still, it's my goal to finally get through Blood Meridian some time in the next semester.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:56 / 02.01.07
A laugh fucking riot, that one. You'll love it.
 
 
Dusto
00:45 / 03.01.07
Maybe funny's the wrong word. But I find it hard to take novels seriously when they don't have a sense of humor about themselves. When they take themselves too seriously. I feel the same wayabout Delillo, for instance, even though he has funny bits.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:15 / 05.01.07
I've just started The Road, and fuck me if it isn't already giving me goosebumps twenty pages in. Seriously, I bet even McCarthy's shopping lists are beautifully written.

Dusto- far be it from me to tell anyone they shouldn't be reading McCarthy, but if you're looking for laughs, then I think you'll be disappointed. Shame, though- you'll be missing out on some truly awe-inspiring shit.
 
 
buttergun
16:18 / 05.01.07
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I finished the Road week before last, but haven't had the chance to comment. I'll just leave it short and sweet: it was one of the best books I've ever read.

In fact, it made me reconsider my Pynchon admiration. As mentioned, the Road captured my imagination within a few pages, moreso than Against the Day had in hundreds of pages.

So I realized something. Here was McCarthy's novel, slim, sparse, spartan. But so full of meaning and emotion. And then there was Pynchon's latest. Huge, overwritten, tedious at times. After the Road, there just wasn't any point anymore. Returning to Against the Day, I got to the part where Frank runs into his mom after doing away with Sloat, and I realized that I felt nothing for the characters or their situation...so I'm taking a "short" break from Against the Day. Time off for good behavior.

I do plan to re-read the Road, though. And I'm also going to check out the McCarthy novels I haven't yet read.
 
 
Dusto
21:34 / 05.01.07
I'm not looking for laughs. As I said, I think "funny" is the wrong word. But what I've read of him is so self-serious and unabashedly grandiose that it's hard for me to take it seriously. If that makes any sense. But I think it's maybe my own fault, that I just approach literature with too much of a sense of irony.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:06 / 06.01.07
I'm not looking for laughs. As I said, I think "funny" is the wrong word.

Yeah, sorry, I kind of skimmed that bit in your last post the time I read it before replying.

I can see your point... but for me, the grandiosity's what makes it. I guess we're just looking for different things, but I'd say you should try anyway. You might end up liking it.
 
 
matthew.
22:05 / 06.01.07
Let's watch for spoilers on other novels not related to McCarthy, please! Thank you. Carry on.
 
 
matthew.
22:06 / 06.01.07
(Directed at spoilers for Against The Day, I mean)
 
 
van dyke
22:30 / 08.01.07
To Dusto: Maybe this is relevant. I read the reviews of Catch 22 and on the basis of that tried to read the book. Couldn’t. Impossible. I couldn’t see what all the fuss was about. A few years down the line and I had to read it as a student. And this time….. fantastic. Then I understood why everyone raved about it. Perhaps let it go for a while then try again. That might be the answer.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:30 / 19.01.07
OK, got distracted from The Road by, like real life and stuff...

but I just finished it today. And fuck me if I didn't cry like a fucking baby.

DEFINITELY at least "nearly as good as Blood Meridian"...

I think I have to read them both again to make a decent comparison. Blood Meridian is so dense, and The Road so sparse... but they make perfect counterparts to one another.

"The man" in The Road is like the polar opposite of "the kid" in Blood Meridian- one is nothing but nurture, the other nothing but, well, if not nature, then self-interest.

This comparison has only just occurred to me, and I'll come back to it when I'm not so drunk.

But I firmly believe Blood Meridian is up there with the greatest books ever written... I think The Road may well join it.
 
 
Raw Norton
16:04 / 28.03.07
Wow, I'd stupidly considered Pynchon to be the greatest living American novelist, but I guess greater minds than mine have settled the matter.

Honestly, this fills me with a little dread. I don't know how I'd handle it if Oprah picked one of my own favorite authors.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:21 / 28.03.07
Why does it fill you with dread? I mean, I'm as dubious about Oprah as you are (and, in the UK, Richard And Judy) but... McCarthy is fucking brilliant. It's not like Oprah's book club chose Anne Rice or anything.

(For the record, I fucking love Pynchon too).
 
 
matthew.
17:39 / 28.03.07
I wonder if we'll have a repeat of the time Jonathan Franzen was kicked out of Oprah's book club. Bad Jonathan Franzen! No! Bad New York book snob! Bad Franzen.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:45 / 28.03.07
I don't really get what's wrong with being popular. I think the world would be a better place if tons of people liked the same shit I (insert yourself here, it's universal) do. I tend to find this more with music than with books, but I still don't understand it.

Fuck yeah. I WANT Cormac McCarthy on Oprah. I WANT Current 93 getting radio airplay. I WANT my mate's tiny fanzine getting exposure ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Didn't Pynchon do The Simpsons, anyway?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:46 / 28.03.07
(That was to RN, by the way. And, RN, it wasn't supposed to read as nastily as it does, to be honest. Sorry).
 
 
matthew.
17:52 / 28.03.07
I like Pynchon, but he's now where near as visceral, breathtaking and un-bullshitty as McCarthy. McCarthy's prose just rips through a man. Pynchon dances elegantly (most of the time) around the point until the music's over and the band's left.

Are we not mad that Phillip Roth didn't get on Oprah? My main man, Harold Bloom thinks Roth, Pynchon, and McCarthy are the bee's knees. Those three and Don Delillo, of course.

McCarthy's as challenging as anything on Oprah's book club list. She doesn't always pick the worst thing ever. I liked Wally Lamb's I Know This Much Is True. I'd like to see her select a difficult work in a more cult-y genre, such as sci-fi or horror. Pick Clive Barker's Imajica or Great And Secret Show. That'll get tongues wagging.
 
 
Dusto
22:45 / 28.03.07
That's cool with me. I'm in the middle of Blood Meridian right now. I'm liking it more than I did any of the three previous times I started it. Which is to say that I'm liking it. But I don't see how he compares with Pynchon at all. Though I trust that he's competent enough to realize he's doing such things, his tense shifts and unnecessary coinages strike me more as lazy than pointful, and though I've found a bit of humor in him this time around, I still think he comes across as too self-serious.
 
 
Raw Norton
23:52 / 28.03.07
I think my "dread" is mostly the worry that, were Oprah to coopt, say, David Foster Wallace (and, yeah, I know she recently ran a commencement speech of his in her magazine), people might begin to mistake my genuine appreciation of the man & his work for blind Oprah-loyalty. It's not that I would have a problem with gifted authors getting something like the appreciation they deserve; I just find it repugnant when something as sincere & meaningful like literature is pimped to the public (& unthinkingly consumed by said public) like so many fish sandwiches. And I don't mean to come across as elitist, but this is Oprah's strength: her viewership is so fiercely loyal that she can mobilize them to buy or do most anything. Yes the woman has the power to draw attention to important issues, but just as often she uses her fanbase as a means of outsourcing her own pet peeves about, for example, restaurant etiquette. Will some daytime TV devotees pick up The Road and really like it, experience some insights, become interested in serious lit, and generally grow as people? Almost assuredly yes. But I'd still be damned redfaced if I ever sat down at my local coffeeshop and proceeded to read a book with an Oprah Book Club sticker on the cover.
 
 
matthew.
01:32 / 29.03.07
Wow. You'd better hope Haus doesn't see that post.

Anyways... so implicit in your post is that it's okay for not-so gifted authors to pimp their literature like fish sandwiches. What if their intentions for literature are as high as McCarthy's? Only gifted, in-it-for-the-art authors should avoid Oprah?

she uses her fanbase as a means of outsourcing her own pet peeves about, for example, restaurant etiquette.

As well as those pesky teenage prostitutes. And slavery. And the 51 million dollars she raised for the underprivileged. And the 10 million from her personal fortune to Hurricane Katrina relief. And the 7 million to put black men through college.

I'm sorry to pick on you but...
people might begin to mistake my genuine appreciation of the man & his work for blind Oprah-loyalty

"Man, I was totally into The Arctic Monkeys before they got famous!" is what I'm hearing. It's like Stoatie pointed out that the same problem happens with music.

Or older fans of Chuck Palahniuk who hate him cause he's popular now.
 
 
Raw Norton
01:58 / 29.03.07
I swear I'm not trying to accelerate threadrot here; my basic interest is in seeing how McCarthy fans react to the Oprah news, which interest is informed by my own notions of how I'd react if the same happened to one of my favorite authors. Having elicited a response, though, I'm going to try to be quick in addressing others' responses.

So. W/r/t teenage prostitutes, &c. I'm really not trying to detract from her positive influence. Emphatically: she's no saint, but she has great potential to bring important issues to the nat'l dialogue, which she in fact does do. But I'm concerned with the sway she holds over her viewers' actions, and their dollars. And I can't believe her viewers are likelier cut a check to some African charity than they are to buy a Pontiac, purchase "The Secret" or read Sidney Poitier's memoir. Further, in those instances, I don't think her viewers are acting as informed consumers making rational choices, but rather as loyal Oprah fans. And, so, yeah: it particularly bothers me when people pick the books they read by such a process.

As for the Arctic Monkeys argument: hey, I concur. There's a certain degree of hypocrisy whenever someone rejects an artist on the grounds of his or her popularity. Granted, it's something every snob will do sooner or later, and I say that as a snob. But when I really do like something, of course I don't swear it off when it gets popular. But that doesn't mean it's wrong for me to hope that my favorite author, artist, etc. doesn't get stigmatized (and as I set out above, I tend to think the Oprah-stigma is generally valid) or notorious. I'm simply hoping to save myself some grief.

And I don't think it's appropriate to consider here whether only fledgling or authors ought to pimp their work. By my understanding, the authors don't have a say in the Oprah's Book Club matter; they aren't sending her drafts and begging to be pick. They have Oprah's book-club status thrust upon them. I'm sure that in the wake of the Franzen debacle, authors can decline the honor, but I'd still draw a distinction between the ability to reject her when Oprah comes a-knocking, and actively seeking this kind of commercial outlet. So yeah, insofar as the book club is a marketing ploy by which publishers seek to turn a hefty profit by selling books to an audience that's buying books for entirely the wrong reason (supra), I'd say it's a pretty despicable practice.
 
 
matthew.
11:53 / 29.03.07
Well, it's a type of corporate synergy. The Road is easily one of McCarthy's bestsellers. So in order to sell more copies of it, the publisher and Harpo Productions go into a deal in which Oprah advocates it, thus increasing sales for Oprah and for the publisher. I don't think this is (darth) insidious at all.

The eventual outcome of this venture is so positive, it's going to outweigh the supposed despicable intentions of pure profit. If only HALF of Oprah readers in turn pick up another McCarthy book, or a Pynchon/Delillo/Roth novel, something challenging and syntactically better than Dan Brown, then isn't it worth the publisher making more money?

And if Oprah chooses to select more challenging authors in the future, doesn't that bode well for us readers to like something a little more than albino monks and shag carpets? Publishing, like the music and movie industry, follows trends slavishly. If readers are going to start buying McCarthy, we're going to see more authors like McCarthy.

So just because they have a profit in mind doesn't make this an evil capitalist conspiracy. I had planned to read The Road when it comes out in softcover, and it looks like the trade is going to have an Oprah sticker on it. Oh well.
 
 
matthew.
11:59 / 29.03.07
I almost agree on the type of blind consumerism your talking about. It's almost a danger. But not quite. We're all guilty of it.

It's a type of brand loyalty. Oprah's fans have faith in the brand of Oprah. They have had a positive experience before with her and expect to continue with that positive experience. They seem to enjoy selections from Oprah, so they expect to continue enjoying selections. They somehow got through Faulkner (which everybody has difficulty with) and Tolstoy. They expect to be challenged. The readers of the book club are encouraged to take a critical eye to the book, examine it, tease out the implications. There's questions for discussion in the back of most Oprah selections.

I don't think Oprah's fans slavishly buy anything and everything she endorses. I don't have statistics, but I wonder how many people didn't bother finishing their box of Faulkner?

I have brand loyalty with comics and movies and books. If it has Alan Moore or Grant Morrison on it, I'm going to read it. If it's directed by Quentin Tarantino or Sam Raimi or whoever, I'm going to go see it. I'm not that interested in the idea of Grindhouse, but because I've had consistently positive experiences with Tarantino and Rodriguez, I'm going to watch it, expecting another positive experience.
 
 
matthew.
17:39 / 20.04.07
I finished All The Pretty Horses. This was good, but I was slightly disappointed. Of course, McCarthy's lush and biblical prose is always a delight to read, but this book sort of meandered all over the place. The first and third parts were most enjoyable, in which the main character and his two followers travel nowhere and in which the main character and his friend must survive in prison. The fourth part was the worst, until the end.

Unlike No Country For Old Men, this book seems a whole lot more romantic (Romantic?). John Grady's internal morality never wavers until the end. He believes in what he's doing and nothing can really get through to him. He doesn't need external moral compasses; he's got his own, the mythos of the Cowboy.

I didn't find it nearly as nihilistic as I hoped it would be. And yet, McCarthy's prose (full of "and"s) seems to fit perfectly both the rampant misanthropy and the beautiful lush eroticism of Alejandra and the horses and the land.

Curious about how the movie plays this duality. I know that Billy Bob Thornton is a huge fan of the cowboy and the mystique, but this novel plays both the unwavering stoicism and the horrible blindness in the face of reality of the cowboy. It's commendable of John Grady to keep up his strict code in the face of such awfulness, but on the other hand, it's foolish, even when there's so much happening beyond his beloved intangible country that he doesn't know where to find.
 
 
alas
21:15 / 19.05.07
McCarthy's prose just rips through a man

My question is what it does for women, of course. I'm trying to read Blood Meridian and having many of the same problems as Dusto. I hate the narrative voice of this book--it feels super pretentious and not fully controlled, and, as Dusto noted, definitely seems to take itself far too seriously. As a scholar of the 19th century, I'm not convinced that he's really got any sort of a grip on the period. Only Stoatie's love for it gives me any pause and makes me think I should maybe try to keep reading, despite that this book makes me roll my eyes into my skull. The scene in the Mexican bar, where "the kid" sweeps the floor and then kills a bunch of people reads like white male teenage fantasy to me, but it doesn't seem to be treated at all ironically. Will my perception of all this change if I keep reading?

I also have to say that there's something close to misogyny in Raw Norton's comments on Oprah and her mostly women fans that's really galling to me--particularly in this thread where "great lit" has been virtually equated to "male writers" (has a single woman writer been mentioned so far?). Thanks to matt... for responding so responsibly to RW.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
02:50 / 20.05.07
Hmm... genderwise, it's hard to disagree that McCarthy's work is very "male"- in the Border trilogy and Blood Meridian, particularly, he's deconstructing very "male" myths, so it's kind of unavoidable.

As far as "white male teenage fantasy"- did you really get that from that scene? Wow. I didn't really get any sense of wish-fulfilment fantasy from any of the book, more a sort of inescapable horror. All are murderers, all vicious killers. No sooner have we seen the raiding party depicted as the savages of colonial legend, we see their behaviour mirrored and indeed outdone by the "civilised" contingent.

Although it's based on the real-life Glanton Gang, BM doesn't really deal with historical truth and accuracy- it's tearing down the myth and putting up its own replacement, full of Biblical portent and apocalypse, perhaps more morally true than the myth. We're led to believe the book's about the kid from the beginning; by the time we realise he's merely there as eyes for us to watch the Judge, we're so far in there's no getting out.


More later; just some random five in the morning thoughts which I didn't want to forget.
 
 
alas
15:27 / 21.05.07
I guess I'm still skeptical, so far, that he is actually deconstructing very "male" myths. So far, it feels like a cover story to me. His popularity with young white males, especially, and the way he's then being talked about, e.g., in this thread, the books actually seem to be having the effect of reifying those at various levels. At some level, men who love Cormac McCarthy seem to believe, of those of us who find his work problematic that we "just can't handle the truth." I.e., we're not macho enough to stare it full in the face as the great Mr. McCarthy does... ("Ooh look, his narrator just called a black man 'nigger.' How daring!")

And that peeves me.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:38 / 21.05.07
the books actually seem to be having the effect of reifying those at various levels

How so? I'd say Blood Meridian, in particular, takes the myth, specifically the part of the myth that says the white guys civilised a land of savages, and uses its own tropes to destroy it. Unless the assumption is that the reader is somehow supposed to be getting off on the violence and brutality, which I'm not entirely sure I'm happy with.

On the gender thing, I think you do have a lot more of a point; to an extent I still think these are particularly "male-oriented" stories he's fucking with, however. On a practical level, though, he just doesn't write women very well, as far as I can tell, so may be making a smart move in writing mainly about men. And he's working from a stereotypical frame in which women don't really feature as strong characters (unless you count Once Upon A Time In The West, which is where my defence kind of falls down, as how could you NOT count that?) so doesn't have the templates to draw on. And to write an old-style Western where you fuck with the established rules wouldn't work quite so well if you changed the rules right at the beginning- then you're not writing an old-style Western at all. You're not cheating at football by picking up the ball if you decided beforehand that you're actually playing rugby.

Bear in mind, I've only read five of his (I think) ten novels, so all this could be balls anyway; I'm largely basing it on Blood Meridian, which so far seems like it could be the most problematic. It's also the furthest removed from reality- everything takes place through an almost Biblical filter. The stuff with the ferry is like a twisted, failed version of the parting of the Red Sea, for example.

I think we may need spoiler tags soon!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:41 / 21.05.07
At some level, men who love Cormac McCarthy seem to believe, of those of us who find his work problematic that we "just can't handle the truth."

I'm not sure where you're getting this from, either.
 
  

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