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Nobilis RPG Character Development

 
  

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Blake Head
02:11 / 07.12.06
This thread is for prospective players of a Barbelith Nobilis RPG to collaboratively discuss the creation of characters and setting, to talk about the broad themes they’d like the game to explore, and to ask and hopefully have answered any questions about the setting or the game mechanics.

Useful Links:

Nobilis on Wikipedia
Useful basic introduction to the game.

Quick Guide – So You’ve Been EnNobled

Concept Synopsis

Nobles as Aspects of Reality

Introduction to Chancels

Introduction to Imperators

Character Creation Reference Tables

Nobilis Chapter 1

Example of Play

Character Sheet

Chancel Sheet

Imperator Sheet
(The last two aren’t sheets you’ll probably really need, but feel free to make use of them anyway)

Nobilist
Excellent list/archives for discussing the finer points of Nobilis mechanics or for gaining inspiration.
 
 
Blake Head
02:16 / 07.12.06
Ok, rather than try and do it all at once, we’ll start off with basic character ideas and work out what people want to do with the game, how familiar they are with the concept, then move on gradually to things like details of setting. If you’re not sure of anything then post here, no matter how entry level: I’d be quite happy to see questions like “I want to play the Power of Political Activism – how will that work?” alongside “What’s your take on how Nobles not being part of any Estate, Auctoritas and the Rite of Holy Fire interact?”. Hopefully there will be enough material in the links above for those without the book to make sure everyone has a decent basic idea of the setting, and we can go straight to the potential for that setting. I’m going to steal one thing from the main book to start us off:

Here is what Nobilis is about.

You’re a perfectly normal person, when suddenly someone scissors open your soul and puts… something as large as the world inside. This isn’t about power. It’s not about… anything you ever dreamed of. The Imperial shard in your soul makes you as large as the world. That’s what being a Noble is. It’s exceeding every boundary you ever dreamed of. A lot of humans think our powers make us like gods. They don’t. They make us like God. I’m not omnipotent, or omniscient, and I’m certainly not omni-benevolent, but I’m part of something that is. I’m a slice of Creation large enough for all Creation to see. I am one of the building blocks of the world. I am, by extension, all of the building blocks of the world. I hold them close to my heart. My estate’s arms wrap around everything in the universe.



Nobilis doesn’t have any particular themes to explore. A few were central to its creation – but there is no limit on the themes you can use. There is no single genre. It is not a mystery game, or a game of daytime soaps, or a game of science fiction. It’s not not any of these things either. You can play one of them, if you like.

Nobilis does not have a genre, in the classic literary sense. What it has is an approach to the genre of your choice – an approach in which the characters and events are absolutes. Where they operate on the highest levels of reality. And where the whole world turns on a word in the right ear. Within those bounds, you may play in whatever genre you like.



So: characters and themes. What concepts are people interested in playing, what are the personalities behind those concepts like, what do you want a character embodying those concepts to be able to do?

Thinking about Estates briefly… It’s important to pick a concept that’s metaphorically big, but still has a manageable range of influence, without, at the same time, being of too small a focus. The Power of Change, for example, would be quite a large conceptual Estate, superficially with the ability to affect everything capable of change in limitless ways. Someone who wanted to play this as “I make a Lesser Creation of Change turning his head into a melon” would need to have a more clearly defined idea of what type of change they could create or modify, affecting the idea of change itself, like gradual change, or personal capacity for change, rather than it just being a catch-all. None of which should mean that a character who wants to embody Change as a meta-concept of mutability, of someone who turns “the euer-whirling wheele / Of Change, the which all mortall things doth sway,”, would be disqualified from doing so, just that they’d probably have to accept a broader sense of what their powers are capable of doing.

The Power of Loose Change, by comparison, would probably be quite a narrow focus, as loose change, in and of itself, isn’t very metaphorically significant. If someone wanted to play this, I’d probably ask them to think about what they wanted to do with such a concept, and maybe to consider a Secondary Domain focusing on small amounts of currency; having enough quarters for that cup of coffee that gets you out of the cold, lucky pennies, working for tips, begging for change, the drain on the economy of money that goes out of circulation, and so on.

It’s important to remember that an Estate doesn’t have a “correct” attitude to adopt. It’s a matter of the personality of their Power, the human component with imagination and free will, interacting with the immutable nature of their spiritual existence, and it’s also a question of that Power’s affiliation. We’ll probably need to talk more about affiliation, whether to Heaven or Hell, the Dark or the Light, or something else, in more depth, but preliminarily, you should think about how a Power of Love who serves the Light will differ from one who follows the codes of Hell – one might see Love as a force which binds humanity together while another could concentrate on how love corrupts the strength and principles of those who are oppressed by it. Both views are appropriate for a Noble of Love, and the perspective offered by their personal affiliation will be central to how most characters will view their Estate, and the pairing of incongruous affiliations / concepts could potentially make fascinating characters.

With regard to groups, Imperators embody several concepts, and while there can be and often is a close relationship between those concepts, there doesn’t have to be, or at least it doesn’t have to be overt. It’s perfectly possible to have a family of Powers of Streetlights, Fine Art, Murder and Charity, so long as people think about how those concepts would interact. Imperators move in mysterious ways. The other thing is that as a group the players will have a reason to work together, so seemingly irreconcilably disparate or opposed Estates will have at times Powers with greater loyalties to their Imperator’s Estates as a whole, or the properties of existence in general, than inter-Estate rivalry. Which isn’t to say a family of Nobles should always get on! One more thing on naming concepts (for both Imperators and Powers): Estates can usually be described in one or two words, but again, that might not necessarily be accurate or possible. There’s no reason for people not to choose Estates that are quite abstract or can’t be summed up as one concrete thing, as long as they have a good understanding of it.

I’d be interested to see if people wanted to consciously develop a game with Powers dealing with typical Barbelith concerns, if such things exist. We could think about the commonalities of interest in the occult, or science-fiction or equal rights, the Invisibles style encounter with a higher reality, something focusing on the dialectic between structure and anarchy, whatever you want. I suspect there’s no need to do this consciously, as everyone will bring something from themselves to the table, and personally I’m quite happy just to see what that is without planning it out too much.

Right, I’m going to stop writing now. I have some thoughts on some very basic foundations for the setting, but generally they are such that they will fit into whatever you, the players, decide you want to do with the game, so I’ll let you get on with it. If there’s a feeling of more of a need for a general overview then I’ll try and do that when I next pop in as well.
 
 
Isadore
03:24 / 07.12.06
A couple of ideas I've got popping around:

* The twelve-year-old, homeless until recently Marquess of Lost Causes, who travels all over Creation with his faithful squirrel companion Razz, righting wrongs and helping the underdog, or at least trying to. Possibly cursed.
* The Duchess of Steam, a Victorian adventuress a good century on from the time of her Estate's greatest influence but surviving quite nicely in the modern world. Also a great excuse to build odd mechanical constructs that may or may not function. (Former NPC, so as much as I love her, possibly not the best idea to continue.)
* The magpie Regal of Distraction with a secondary Estate in Shiny Things. Prone to babbling, kleptomania.

I'm generally not much good with Realm and/or sitting about the Chancel all day, though I'll stick a point or two in just to be polite. My characters tend towards a high Domain, high Spirit point spread with a couple of nifty gifts.

How do any of those sound?
 
 
iconoplast
18:14 / 07.12.06
I don't know much about Nobilis, I've tried reading through the book, but didn't really grok what to do. However, if the first step is a concept and a title, I'm golden.

I would like to play Johannes, Reichsfreiherr of Story.
 
 
gridley
19:35 / 07.12.06
In 1969, acidhead Lazlo Tonk decided to close up his record store in San Francisco and hike from Goa to Kathmandu. One night while tripping on the banks of the Ganges, just outside of Benares, his mind came into contact with something enormous and he became the Guru of Hippie Mysticism.
 
 
Blake Head
20:02 / 07.12.06
A Power of the Dark, gridley, leading humankind astray?
 
 
charrellz
20:10 / 07.12.06
I've got two concepts I want to flesh out a little better before I decide on one: Jesse, Avatar of Gender-Neutrality. Or Sarah (pronounced 'Frank'), Archduke and Supreme Fishgod of Absurdism (that chancel will be sooo fun).

Also, I'm not sure how to work this one, but if anyone else can it's up for grabs. A Lord of Things You Couldn't Possibly Begin To Comprehend would be fun. Or just the Lord of Pretentious Arrogance.
 
 
gridley
20:19 / 07.12.06
A Power of the Dark, gridley, leading humankind astray?

Hehe... not intentionally so. Lazlo is an idealist, but he could probably be misled.
 
 
Blake Head
20:33 / 07.12.06
Celane: They could all work, so I’ll let you ponder it a bit more or consider new ones if you like. I’d wonder how easily you could use Domain for Lost Causes, and the Regal of Distraction sounds particularly good but I’m not sure it’s the right word – is it diversion, or beguilement, or absorption maybe? Or maybe distraction is fine, I’m just curious what exactly you want to do with it, as it's touching (slightly) on a planned NPC.

Low Realm is fine – it’s worth bearing in mind that players with a low score in Realm get comparatively less say in both the creation of the Chancel setting, as well as less in-game clout. I’ll try to cover the traits system next time, though generally there should be good character reasons for having the maximum or minimum score in any attribute.

iconoplast: Follow the link to the Concept Synopsis above. It should have all the basic info needed to follow the game and create a character. Titles usually refer to specific areas of mastery within the setting. A Baron of Story would have a relatively weak control over his Estate (Domain), although you’re free to call yourself the Reichsfreiherr Johannes should you wish, as it might refer to your authority/responsibilities in the Chancel (Realm) that you occupy. Have a think initially about what sort of personality Johannes will have, and whether you want to use the idea of Story as something crafted which inspires (Heaven) as a creation of beauty, something made-up which deceives and presents the listener with a false view of the world (either Hell or the Dark), a teller of tales which meanders or never really end (The Wild) or maybe something else, a Power of Story who rigidly enforces the dictates of Narrative, eg stories must have a beginning, middle and an end, lives are like stories, so lives too must follow certain formal constraints, otherwise they get… edited. Whatever, (and this applies to everyone) try and give me an idea of your “take” on a particular concept and we’ll be flying.

Thinking about it gridley, a Power of Hippie Mysticism might be too narrow and temporal a concept. Would an Estate of Mysticism or New Age Mysticism not give you greater range for the character (whose background could easily stay the same)?

Thinking about tone, are people generally happier with less serious concepts? Personally, if I have the right to any input in the matter, I’d prefer to have concepts/Estates that aren’t inherently wacky, and then play out the inevitable humour/silliness in-game through the characters - but then I am an old grouch.
 
 
grant
20:35 / 07.12.06
This thread is the first I've heard of this game and it seems *fascinating*. I'm presuming this is based on some discussion in G&G?

I'll have to check that out....
 
 
iconoplast
21:53 / 07.12.06
Do we need to agree in advance as to our allegiance (Heaven/Hell/Wild) and do we all serve the same Imperator, or...

Okay - I've printed out that link & will read it before asking anything else.
 
 
Blake Head
22:11 / 07.12.06
You (the players) will all "serve" the same Imperator, although it's probably better to think about it as each Noble being an earthly expression of their Imperator's spiritual nature (Apologies if I'm being really florid here, please say if I could be doing a better job of explaining this conventionally). Each Imperator will have a family of Nobles (conveniently small RPG group sized) who will largely be left to their own authority in promoting their individual Estates on Earth, while the Imperator generally attends to loftier concerns elsewhere. An Imperator is, literally and metaphysically, an agent of one of the great spiritual factions. Imperators of Heaven are angels. Nobles individually choose an allegiance to one of those factions, but don't necessarily follow their Imperator's nature (though they often do), and are expected to follow and promote the codes which they adopt; there lots of scope in the background for Powers at odds with their Imperator's "politics" being an expression of an Imperator with multiple, even conflicting spiritual perspectives within their identity.

The setting really is fascinating as an elegant combination of lots of different concepts, and it's the main thing about it I enjoy, so IMO it's definitely worth reading up on if you're playing, and even if not really.
 
 
iconoplast
22:25 / 07.12.06
Ok - how is this for a character?

Baronet Johannes, Reichsfreiherr of Story.
Aspect 1, Domain 1, Realm 3, Spirit 2.
Gifts of Gatemaker and Flight, Flaws of Affiliation (The Wild) and Inability to Interrupt a Story Being Told.

I like "Story" as a domain, because it's kind of broad and can cover a lot of ground - since I'm not exactly sure what we're going to be doing, I wanted to choose a Domain that can be easily adapted. Similarly, emphasizing Realm and Spirit over Aspect and Domain says (to me) that Johannes is recently EnNobled, and while he is strongly bound to his Domain and to his Imperator, perhaps he is not so convinced of his ability to wreak changes out on the earth?
 
 
iconoplast
22:31 / 07.12.06
Sorry for the double post.

My take on Story - I like the "lives are like stories" idea, but instead of editing for length, I saw him as editing for content. "This story isn't going anywhere. What you need is (a love interest / a nemesis / insurmountable odds to struggle against)."

And his affiliation to the wild is, I think, indicative of valuing the quality of the stories told over their endings. While heaven might want the sotry of someone's life to have a happier ending, Johannes would only involve himself in such a rewrite if it served the life's story - some stories are just supposed to end badly for the hero.

I wonder about the possible metagaming of making narrative adjustments to Johannes' (and the Chancel's)own stories. Shifting genre from Resevoir Dogs to Keystone Cops at a crucial moment, for instance.

Gatemaker is that classic Gaiman schtick where you can walk from story to story, in and out of dreams. Flight... I don't know - I sort of felt sorry for the character, and though the ability to fly might cheer up this whole prospect of being EnNobled.
 
 
Isadore
22:34 / 07.12.06
Re: concepts:
They could all work, so I’ll let you ponder it a bit more or consider new ones if you like. I’d wonder how easily you could use Domain for Lost Causes, and the Regal of Distraction sounds particularly good but I’m not sure it’s the right word – is it diversion, or beguilement, or absorption maybe? Or maybe distraction is fine, I’m just curious what exactly you want to do with it, as it's touching (slightly) on a planned NPC.

Domain of Lost Causes could go a couple of ways (including Dark) very easily. The particular grasp on the domain I'm going for with that character, though, hinges on a sort of statistical analysis of whatever battle (physical or social or... etcetera) is under consideration. The kid's got a pop culture mentality where the good guys are always the underdogs doomed to lose, and yet, inexplicably, win sometimes in fantastic and showy fashion. The tragedy of the character is that even when he gets involved (perhaps especially when he gets involved) with worthy causes, most of them fail -- otherwise the high probability of failure which is his domain wouldn't be there in the first place. Once in a while, when you've got David and Goliath, David wins -- but if it happened all the time, the Estate would be meaningless.

So the character runs around helping out causes that seem particularly worthy to a naive twelve-year-old with a pet squirrel, incidentally dooming most of them by turning the odds in favor of the other side in order to make them fit the archetype he subconsciously expects.

I have no idea if that made any sense or not, so please, pick it apart. Miracle-wise: A Preservation would keep the statistical probability of success low but greater than 0; a Creation could take a balanced fight and turn it into an unbalanced one; likewise, a Destruction could twist whatever's causing the low odds to suddenly be far less important, evening the fight into something resembling fair odds. As to Ghost Miracles -- well, I always have a hard time with those.

If Distraction is an NPC Estate then I'll step back on that one; the concept I was going for is "things that turn our attention away from what we know we ought to be doing", be that a shiny bit of tin foil or a flashy political scandal or war (see: Wag the Dog). More of a 'diversion' than anything else, but a purposeful one -- 'diversion' can also cover entertainment, such as video games, whose pursuit has been chosen, whereas a distraction is involuntary, an important part of shill games and cons.
 
 
Blake Head
22:35 / 07.12.06
Cool!
 
 
Blake Head
22:40 / 07.12.06
That was actually to iconoplast's first post, but I'm really glad to see people are thinking about the game! I'll go over anything else in more detail tomorrow when my head's less fuzzy, but it all looks good.
 
 
Quantum
16:43 / 08.12.06
I'm reading links but just to mention I'm thinking of playing someone concerned with secrets, allied to teh eevil, so the patron saint of blackmailers.
 
 
grant
17:08 / 08.12.06
OK, that did it.

I want in. I want to play the Noble of Unexpected Events.

Rains of frogs, deus ex machina (how the hell do you pluralize that?), bleeding statues, and that friend you were just thinking of who moved to Malaysia three years ago and fell out of touch but who, you just realized, is opening the door for you as you're walking into the local bookshop.

I have some ideas about Gifts and Attributes, but I want to know if this is upsetting any applecarts first. (The links to Blackmail and Story, though, seem kinda obvious to me.)
 
 
grant
17:22 / 08.12.06
(Not to mention Distraction, of course.)
 
 
Triplets
11:01 / 09.12.06
Powers of Streetlights, Fine Art, Murder and Charity

Did anyone else just think of Batman's origin?
 
 
Crux Is This City's Protector.
13:22 / 09.12.06
Viceroy of Convenience.

More to come.
 
 
gridley
13:29 / 09.12.06
So, if Lazlo Tonk has a primary domain of Mysticism, could he cause some average guy to have a mystical vision? And if he had a secondary domain of Drugs, could he cause someone to have an acid trip? Or would he just be able to affect people who are already mystically inclined or already taking drugs respectively?
 
 
Blake Head
19:27 / 09.12.06
Mysticism, and for that matter the relationship between intoxicants and the observation of the Godhead, feels like something that’s been around for ages. It would make sense to me if Lazlo was only the most recent Noble to hold those Estates, so an origin in the late sixties is fine. And yes, he could absolutely cause Joe Bloggs to have a mystical vision, even a specific one, as a Lesser Creation.

Drugs, though, for the reasons above, doesn’t sound like a Secondary Domain, it feels too big - at least to me. How about something like Divine Intoxication – where you would have a purview over the particularly mystical elements of intoxicants, and would be able to simulate their effects as a Lesser Creation? It’s the most common thing in the world for Nobles to have a history where their Estates overlap; perhaps the Power of Drugs originally had a trifling Estate on par with your Secondary Domain, but has since risen to a position of far greater strength with ties to an increase in hard drug use, international drug trafficking, the pharmaceutical industry, and so on, and they almost certainly would be a Power of the Dark.

Iconoplast: I like your take on Story very much. Three things briefly: 1) Does he have wings, or does he just float spookily? 2) Gatemaker doesn’t technically work like that, but it will be simple enough to come up with a Gift that does what you describe, leave it with me. 3) Narrative adjustments would be an excellent use of the Estate, but one of the things Nobilis (as a set of rules) insists on is that Nobles are not themselves part of any Estate. Which means that the Power of Change can’t transform another Power’s body into a giant pumpkin, Celane’s Power of Lost Causes couldn’t transform the cause of a Power she was brawling with into a lost one, and you couldn’t affect change on other members of the Chancel, even to their benefit, or that of other Powers you were facing off against. That said, you can affect yourself, and you can affect the “conventional stories” in play around you, so it’s by no means a worthless idea, and I’ll have a think about to what degree you could affect the style and outcome of the stories that you are embedded within. For example, if you were to miraculously make yourself the protagonist in the midst of a heroic fantasy, it could naturally be assumed that you’d win through whatever battle you were undertaking, which is quite powerful, but most Nobles would be able to circumvent or completely ignore that miracle.

I’d like to see what a Power of Convenience could do. It’s unquestionably a force in the world, although part me is I admit thinking that if Nobles possess earth-shattering power I’m not sure where convenience, as a concept linked to moderate, practical, mainly small things, fits in, or how it would work in-game. So let’s just say I’m intrigued for now.

Grant: it’s great to have you! Because I don’t know much about the hagiography of the specifically patron saints, can I ask why and how you think they’re tied to Nobilis? Meaning, how did they get to be patrons, why were certain ideas attributed to them and by whom?

I’m also getting the links between Powers of Unexpected Events and Story, but also really with Celane’s Lost Causes, if that’s what she goes ahead with. I like the idea of what you described Grant, but I’m getting the feeling that there’s more than one power in there, or a power with a different name or range maybe. Both the ideas of deus ex machina (Di ex Machina?) and the creation or destruction of the property of something being a lost cause seem linked by the idea of (im)probability, almost as antitheses of each other, and both being in some sense narrative motifs linked to Story. All of which is fine, although I do wonder if maybe in game terms they’re too close, and you’ll largely be doing the same sort of things. My first thought with a Power of Unexpected Events was “uh, that’s Surprises isn’t it?” while what you actually describe is less the unexpected but the improbable, with a particular focus on freaky and/or coincidental events. So… I dunno, that might be fine, but if you want to stick with the idea you might want to ponder something like Improbable Phenomena, either as the main Estate or as a secondary sort of emphasis to something else that’s related. By all means keep it if you think it works though, and you and Celane talk through the differences/shared interests of your characters.

Similarly, Celane, I’m liking the idea of the character (though you do need to talk more about the squirrel!) although employing the actual mechanics as you describe them I’m not sure the character would ever get anything done. If, statistically, the creation of the property of “lost cause-ness” in some situation makes one side highly unlikely to succeed, although the intention of the character is for the underdog to win through, you’re be asking me (as HG) to decide on whether in that particular situation the underdog did beat the favourite, which realistically in most cases they wouldn’t, or you’re not quite describing the idea of why an improbable victory is occurring. I’d question why the character doesn’t seem aware of the (negative) effect he has, and if you want to play a Power whose effects and intentions seem so contradictory. There is stuff you could do with a Major Change, like on a world-wide level the actual nature of lost caused-ness changes to where lost causes are far more likely to be competitive than they should be, but it feels like quite an unwieldy way to do the quite small-scale Miracles you’re talking about, and you’d probably eventually piss off the Dominus of Logic and Probability no end! If you want to keep going with the idea, I’d ponder something around the idea of being able to upset the balance, subversion of likely victory, the mutability of position, something like that. Also, Distraction would be close enough to a possible NPC to confuse things, so if you’re not too invested and are happy to play something else that would be great!
 
 
iconoplast
23:05 / 09.12.06
1) Does he have wings, or does he just float spookily?
- He soars without wings. The power of flight without wings just seems so fundamentally fictional, and at the same time is so viscerally compelling an image – I really like it for a Noble of Story.
2) Gatemaker doesn’t technically work like that, but it will be simple enough to come up with a Gift that does what you describe, leave it with me.
- Sounds good. I may be bringing some Mage baggage with regards to splitting flavor from mechanics.
3) That said, you can affect yourself, and you can affect the “conventional stories” in play around you, so it’s by no means a worthless idea, and I’ll have a think about to what degree you could affect the style and outcome of the stories that you are embedded within. For example, if you were to miraculously make yourself the protagonist in the midst of a heroic fantasy, it could naturally be assumed that you’d win through whatever battle you were undertaking, which is quite powerful, but most Nobles would be able to circumvent or completely ignore that miracle.
Making myself the protagonist in a heroic fantasy in order to win a fight is *exactly* what I was picturing doing. Well, a heroic Fantasy, or if it feels like it’s veering close to a Heroic Tragedy – the line’s blurry - a Keystone Cops routine (slapstick), an ‘80s TV Show (So gunshots always hit people in the shoulder), &c... We’ll see how this plays out.
Since what it's doing is changing the world around us, I imagined other Nobles would be caught in the changes, but not affected by it except inasmuch as it changed the local physics.

Anyway, in terms of Chancel, I humbly submit…

 
 
grant
00:14 / 10.12.06
(1. quick lookup: The Latin phrase (deus ex m?chin?, plural de? ex m?chin?s), so there we go.)

2. ecause I don’t know much about the hagiography of the specifically patron saints, can I ask why and how you think they’re tied to Nobilis? Meaning, how did they get to be patrons, why were certain ideas attributed to them and by whom?

Mostly just that they're metaphysical operators who have kind of abstract spheres of influence. If you've lost an important letter to your father in a hurricane, you could pray for help to St. Anthony (Lost Objects & Mail), St. Joseph (Fathers) or St. Medard (Storms). Saints all started out as ordinary people who lived lives of holiness, or who became exemplars of holiness before they died. Patronage is sort of decided through something like consensus, although really it's more just things that the cult of the saint have decided that saint is good for. (Catholics who are big fans of one saint or another become labeled as members of a "cult" of that saint, and often cults are instrumental in petitioning the Vatican to beatify & canonize their special hero. Thus, pronouncements about St. Christopher being taken off the official, Vatican-endorsed calendar of saints because there's little historical evidence such a person ever existed... those pronouncements might mention the dismay of the cult of St. Christopher, or "despite having an old and influential cult" or something similar. Most often, cults spring up around the place where that saint lived or died, which is probably why most saints who are patrons of anything are patrons of particular places first -- although I'm not sure why St. Andrew is patron of Greece and Scotland, for example.)

3. I like the idea of what you described Grant, but I’m getting the feeling that there’s more than one power in there.... My first thought with a Power of Unexpected Events was “uh, that’s Surprises isn’t it?” while what you actually describe is less the unexpected but the improbable, with a particular focus on freaky and/or coincidental events. So… I dunno, that might be fine, but if you want to stick with the idea you might want to ponder something like Improbable Phenomena, either as the main Estate or as a secondary sort of emphasis to something else that’s related.

"Surprises" was my first thought, too -- but I definitely wanted to emphasize, well, the kinds of things that made the movie Magnolia work (or not, depending on your tastes). "Improbabilities" is pretty much it, although it seems like... well, mentioning probability makes me think of things like games of chance, winning at roulette and that. And while that's pretty cool, it seems less inclusive of Forteana, which is based around things that Should Not Be. Although mulling it over, the "Phenomena" part does lend itself to that kind of thing.

So, yeah, I could live with that description. Or would "Curious Surprises" be more apt?

I also had a very freaky question about how necessary it'd be to be, uh, a human being. More on that via PM, I think.
 
 
gridley
01:25 / 10.12.06
How about something like Divine Intoxication

Yeah, that sounds perfect. So, I'd have my hand in hallucinogenic mushrooms, hashish, peyote, and such. Even communion wine, I suppose.

Lazlo Tonk, Guru of Mysticism and Divine Intoxication.
 
 
gridley
01:59 / 10.12.06
It would make sense to me if Lazlo was only the most recent Noble to hold those Estates, so an origin in the late sixties is fine.

I'm thinking of moving his origin up to 1963 so that his predecessor could be Aldous Huxley.
 
 
grant
04:02 / 10.12.06
Funny, I learned in school that Shiva was connected to Divine Intoxication, but if you put "divine intoxication" in google, you get a couple Jesuits and a lot of Sufis.
 
 
iconoplast
15:21 / 10.12.06
Head Count (or: The Chancel So Far...)

charrellz (Gender-Neutrality or Absurdism or Pretension or Things Beyond Comprehension)
Quantum
xk
iconoplast (Story)
Celane (Lost Causes)
Lekvar
Crux (Convenience)
grant (Unexpected Events)
gridley (Mystic Visions & Divine Intoxication)
 
 
Blake Head
02:41 / 11.12.06
Nobles and What They Do

I was particularly thinking of something like this when talking about intoxication:

“Now I am light, now I fly, now I see myself beneath myself, now a god dances through me."

Didn’t I see something about Martial Arts earlier? I think it was…gridley? There’d be no problem with an Estate of Martial Arts, there almost certainly is one. But if possible I’ll use a couple of your ideas to talk about what Nobles can actually do, which means talking about Miracles.

Aspect covers what humans are able to do, physically, and at higher levels what animals, machines and mythological figures are able to do. Humans can balance, therefore high-Aspect Nobles can balance on thin branches. Very high aspect Nobles might be able to balance on spiderwebs. Humans can jump, therefore high-Aspect Nobles can jump very high. A Power of Martial Arts would probably be handy in a fight, but all Nobles with Aspect are going to better at combat than those without it; humans can fight, Nobles with high-Aspect can fight Batman. Which means that Aspect might be thought of as a less subtle or creative trait than the others, but there’s no need for it to be. Aspect covers thinking, it covers making things with your hands, it covers people skills, it covers teaching. The Power of Martial Arts might be able to throw you over their shoulder, but they’re just as likely to be able to demonstrate a new form of martial arts, or train someone to achieve their peak capabilities in an existing one. Actually effecting Martial Arts as an Estate, however, would use Domain. This covers what humans absolutely aren’t able to do, which is affect the building blocks of reality directly, without using their hands.

Domain (and Realm) miracles basically operate through magics of Divination, Preservation, Creation, Destruction and Change. Like Aspect, the higher one’s Domain, the more power to influence the world a character will have. What people should perhaps think about is not just what they want their character to represent, but also what they want them to be able to do.

Here’s a quick run through of each grade of the Domain/Magic system:

Level 0 Miracle – Estate Driven Divination
The character’s Estate will alert them if is being attacked in some way. If the Power of Drugs is using its influence to introduce Peyote to a mass-market, the Estate of Divine Intoxication will signal to Lazlo that an element of their Estate whose essential nature as a highly individual, reality altering experience is being corrupted.

Level 1 Miracle – Ghost Miracles
Essentially, any use of the suite of magics available which is generally insignificant, and usually insubstantial. The Power of Mystic Visions could create semi-transparent auras, or use Divine Intoxication to give someone a mild buzz.

Level 2 Miracle – Lesser Divinations
Gives the character general information about their Estate.
The Power of Mystic Visions would be aware of the general structure of different mystical traditions, or through Divine Intoxication have an understanding of what experiences an intoxicant might provide, even without having personally tried them before.

Level 3 Miracle – Lesser Preservation
Intensifies or preserves pre-existing objects of the Estate. Power of Mystic Vision: make the impact of a mystical seminar or dream a life-changing effect. Power of Divine Intoxication: prolong someone’s high.

Level 4 Miracle – Lesser Creation
Creates a sample of the character’s Estate from nothing. Power of Mystic Vision: give someone a strong mystical vision, start a small movement around a previously unknown mystical teaching. Power of Divine Intoxication: produce a small quantity of a certain drug, induce the effects of an acid trip in the local mayor live on tv.

Level 5 Miracles – Lesser Destructions and Major Divinations
Lesser Destructions remove samples of the character’s Estate from existence. Power of Mystic Vision: remove a prophet’s mystical vision. Power of Divine Intoxication: end the crippling flashbacks your best friend’s been having for years, instantly cause someone to sober up.
Major Divinations allow the character to use their Estates to find out information their Estates might be able to perceive. Power of Mystic Vision: Surf the dreams of the world’s mystics to glean insight into the future. Power of Divine Intoxication: draw from the minds of the drunks, dreamers and sages the image of the apocalyptic figure which haunts their rituals.

Level 6 Miracles – Lesser Changes and Major Preservations
Lesser Changes alter objects of the character’s Estate without destroying or creating them first. Power of Mystic Vision: Someone’s dreaming perceptions have found a window into Hell, torturing them; change their vision into a more passive warning about the dangers of a life spent not thinking of others. Power of Divine Intoxication: change the manifestation of DMT elves into something else more or less lucid, talking unicorns, giant red satellites.
Major Preservations greatly increase the length and intensity of objects of a character’s Estate. Power of Mystic Vision: Make the recipient of a mystic vision so deeply touched by its message that they spend their life preaching it to others, inspiring them with their zeal. Power of Divine Intoxication: turn a casual drinker into a god-touched rambling irretrievable drunk.

Level 7 Miracle – Major Creations
Global, epic creations of the relevant Estate. Power of Mystic Vision: Introduce a new mystical meme into the global consciousness. Power of Divine Intoxication: Create a new drug, with an entirely different set of experiences.

Level 8 Miracle –Major Destructions
The ability to remove objects of the Estate on a massive scale – though not the Estate itself. Power of Mystic Vision: The mystic sight of everyone in the world goes dark. People stop caring about 2012. Power of Divine Intoxication: Sobriety rules. Hashish no longer has any intoxicating effect whatsoever.

Level 9 Miracle – Major changes.
Anything else that can be done with the Estate. Power of Mystic Vision: All mystic visions now share common features that point towards a single truth, world religions struggle to accommodate these overwhelmingly uniform perspectives. Power of Divine Intoxication: Change the basic nature of intoxication, no longer a perspective on or a route to mystical knowledge, intoxication becomes the physical means to possess that mystical knowledge; seekers all over the world wake up without hangovers but with unprecedented levels of gnosis.

Realm miracles are pretty much exactly the same as Domain miracles, except that they can effect any Estate (which is pretty much everything apart from Anchors, Nobles, Imperators) but they only work in your own Chancel.

Spirit has more passive abilities, but can be a bit difficult to follow, so we’ll come back to that one as and when people start asking questions.

At a basic level, what Nobles do is perform Miracles. Things which are qualitatively different, and have a different order of reality to, mundane actions. You should get an idea (if you haven’t already) of how you want your characters to use their main concepts under the structure above. I’m going to be busy for a couple of days, I’ll do a run-through of spending points and on what after that if it will help.
 
 
Ticker
14:47 / 11.12.06
well I'm reading the links and this thread and trying to learn but feeling a bit lite weight. I had a dream the other night in which I was sitting down trying to come up with a character and it had to do with Heartache. I'm thinking I'd like to do something with Heartache as Doomed Romantic Love but I'm not sure just what to do with it.

My learning curve maybe a bit longer than other folks so I'm hesitant to suck up your time while I figure this out. Though suggestions would be most appreciated.
 
 
Quantum
14:48 / 11.12.06
Okay, I'm still absorbing the system mechanics (will borrow a copy of the pretty rules soon) but my character is Richard Saldana, ex-investigative journalist, practiced at ferreting out dirty laundry and guilty secrets, finding skeletons in closets etc. Having moved on to blackmailing from journalism (more lucrative) he became nobbled and deals with the estate Dark Secrets. A lover of creature comforts, charming and/or caustic, pretty selfish and incurably curious, dressed well and preferably with a glass of champagne in hand. Like an evil Mycroft Holmes or Sebastian O.
I'm still not sure of the breadth of estate we should be aiming for so if you want to downsize it to Blackmail or upsize it to Secrets feel free. Does that sound workable Blake?
 
 
Quantum
14:51 / 11.12.06
xk- let's PM each other to thrash it out if you fancy. I need to drop my Mage baggage like Iconoplast so I'll be digging into it over the next few days.
 
 
grant
15:12 / 11.12.06
Y'know how in D&D (as in, like, superhero comics teams), it's useful for a team to have a Brick (tough!) and a Brain (figures things out!) and a Face (wins friends & allies) and a Sneak (gets in and out of tight places)?

I can't quite figure out what roles like that would be useful in this game. How to tell what would make the big fighter, the thief, or the wizard. (or B.A., Murdock & Hannibal, if you like).
 
  

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