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The Drawing Salon

 
  

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Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
20:38 / 10.10.06
To elaborate, I'm inclined towards a numero 3 at the mo (that's the red one at bottom on the left), and the others just have their occasional uses. Some people use surprisingly large brushes for inking (I'm sure I remember Cameron saying he used to use an 8 or something CRAZY). Not that I really know a great deal about it. I feel a lot more comfortable now though, using bigger brushes and just adapting my line to fit what I want to do. It used to be quite haphazard and precarious.

I'm hoping I can one day do a whole page with a paint roller or something.

This is quite fun to have a look at, if by no means definitive (whatever that would be). I think I can safely say that's what I used to learn everything I could about how to draw comics (the materials section, basically) and then just adapting to the various combinations of what I like best, now.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:58 / 12.10.06
Hey Nel-swoon, I'm curious, what sort of paper do you like to use for ye olde mapping nibs? I often get a bit of scratching and sticking, never really worked out if it was more fun to go at thick texture-y paper or careful on smooth pristine stuff.

This goes for everyone, too: let's talk about paper, guys!
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
15:36 / 12.10.06
Oh god, don't ask me about paper... Oh go on then.

For a long, long time I used thick, decent quality (but not overly textured) watercolour paper. Something about the way in which the nib engages with the paper encourages a slow, precise way of working, which was perfect for me at the time. You can get incredibly fine, delicate lines quite easily, almost like the kind you might find on a Lovely Old Etching.

I started working on bristol board a year or two back, what with feeling the need to loosen up and develop a faster style. The comic artist's paper of choice seemed the natural way to go. It's certainly a "snappier" kind of surface, and definitely had the desired effect on the way I worked, but never felt quite as satisfying and tactile. The ink tends to sit on top, and takes yonks to dry. It doesn't feel like the mediums are integrating. To my well beaten and weathered mind, this is just wrong.

(for the record, my first two Jenny Everywhere strips were on watercolour paper, and the last one was on bristol board, hence the sudden - some might say jarring - jolt in style)

Anyway, I've settled on a happy medium. The cartridge paper you get from those black ringbound Daler Rowney sketchbooks is absolutely perfect, I love it. You can go fast and you can go slow, you can be brash and you can be meticulous. Hurrah for that.

Soooo much more to address from previous posts, but I've loads of stuff to get done; will hopefully have bits and pieces shipshape for a nice big post soonish...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
18:34 / 12.10.06
Aye, you're totally right about ink sitting on top of bristol board for nibs. That's the paper I still use, and I'm always smudging it by accident (I'm sure once I'd actually finished the page and was just erasing the pencil lines and there was a huge black spot that still managed to smudge) but it's nice for me brush. I find other paper a bit too slow for that - it's really hard going - and it's pushing it to get more than a few lines out of a freshly dipped brush.

But then sometimes I think bristol board is a bit too clean - great for sharp lines, but it can be more of a struggle to get something a bit looser and textured. I try to change it up depending...
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
08:46 / 13.10.06
Arghhh. Those damn bubbles of ink with an outer crust of dry and a snarling pocket of wet lying in wait underneath. So much as touch them with the eraser and out it all smears like a skidmark.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
10:54 / 13.10.06
LYING. IN. WAIT. You speak of this most beautifully, Sir Evergreen. Sometimes the stuff just. won't. dry. Is there a technical term for this? "Bastard sneaky wet ink", mayhap?
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
15:45 / 14.10.06
You know, Suedey, I think I'm going to get stuck into some dry brush drawing, what with being temporarily tired of hard, clinical niblines, and that fine illustration of yours a few posts back having made me sit up and go "hmm...". I've been wanting to get a more fluid, less "defined" style on the go, and was wondering if pencil might be the way forward, but dry brush gives a similar tonal range, is more permanent, and great fun to boot. Simple!
 
 
the Fool
01:11 / 18.10.06
Progression...



 
 
the Fool
00:26 / 02.11.06
further Progression...



I'll put this in an animated gif when I finish...
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
09:43 / 02.11.06
It's fascinating to watch that lovely thing consuming it's surroundings. Roll on the gif.

Right then: Masks. Photoshop masks.

I found a brilliant little tutorial on the web years back, which explained them beautifully, but having just scouted around for it in vain I'm going to bite the bullet and attempt to explain them myself. You asked for it, iamus...

The gist is actually very, very simple, but notoriously difficult to get across. But here goes. Basically, you use them to manipulate areas of a layer's transparency while preserving the actual contents of the layer. Hiding (and revealing) parts of the layer, essentially, rather than erasing them.

A (hopefully) simple example might be to talk about how a mask can be used to produce ridiculously flexible shading.

Open an illustration, make a new layer at the top, and fill that layer with any colour, maybe a darkish red or blue. In the layers pallette, change the blending for the new layer from Normal to Multiply (if you want, it's not vital), and set it's opacity to 30%. You've now got a transparent colour sheen over the entire illustration.

Click the Add A Mask icon at the bottom of the layers palette (the dotted white circle on the grey background). The mask appears as a thumbnail next to your layer thumbnail, filled in white.

Now, if you press command/i (sorry, don't know the PC equivalent...), this inverts the mask and it's thumbnail becomes black. The effect this has on the actual image is that the new layer "disappears".

It's just hiding, of course.

Masks work in a greyscale spectrum. If it's mask is white, the layer is visible. If it's mask is black, the layer is hidden.

So, select a brush of your choice, set it to white and draw a few lines on your image. The areas drawn on will now reveal the contents of the layer, ie: the transparent sheen of colour. Set the brush to black, draw on these areas, and you'll hide them again.

Set your brush's opacity to anywhere between 0 and 100, and it'll produce a midtone on the mask, and thus the layer's colour sheen in that area will be semi-visible.

(NB: you're doing all this in Edit Mask mode, thus the mask icon is visible next to the layer's Eyeball. If you wanted to edit the layer itself, you'd click on it's thumbnail - the mask icon changes to a paintbrush. Click the mask thumbnail to return to Edit mask)

(Not essential, but nice to know: Alt click on the mask in the layer pallette, and the contents of the mask itself appears in the main window. Alt click on it again to return to the image.)

The real benefit of the technique is that you can now play around with the layer's colour, blending mode and opacity to subdue the shading, make it psychedelic, whatever you fancy. If you're anything like me you'll spend hours doing this. It's a fantastically "accidental" way of working, sparking off new ideas which can easily kidnap your illustrations and drag them giggling down quite unexpected routes.

There's looooads more you can do with masks, obviously, but the principle is always the same. What's visible, what's hidden and what's inbetween.

The piece you asked me to talk about was a bit of a maskfest:



The layered file bit the dust in a hard drive calamity a few weeks after it was finished, so all that's left is the lo-res website version above, and the original ink drawing:



It took weeks, if not months, of working on and off to get from b&w to colour. Acre after acre of the aforementioned mucking about with masks and blending, before finally settling on quite a simple, subtle look. But anyway, I need to re-do it for my portfolio soon and, what with knowing what the finished article is supposed to look like this time around, it's probably only a couple of days' work. I'll post images and walkthroughs of some of the more interesting stages, if that's any use.

Gosh. I'm going for a lie down.
 
 
will
10:55 / 02.11.06
Gosh.

Clever. Lovely. Good.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:54 / 03.11.06
Haha! I completely missed all this, and thought I was about resurrect this thread with talks of photoshop and indeed maskery, and lo and behold...



There's actually been quite a few versions of this (and it's quite possible there will be some more before it's done), and it started out being all lit and toned and whatnot, but in the end I like to keep things simple. It suits my art to keep things quite flat and subdued tonally, soft and clear. Quite minimal, no more than is necessary. There's two tiny masks in there (I used quick mask though, for I was merely compelled to try this thing everyone was talking about out) which are quite rough and ready but do their job well enough - setting the background buildings apart and integrating the pattern on her skirt (lazily). There's really no great change from the original...



I completely know what you mean about fiddling around for hours and hours Nelson (although I actually get quite annoyed at photoshop for this and it's many options, because they sometimes make me forget my GOALS - and nobody wants to go down the terrible "doing too much" route so often seen in comics, where they have these worlds where everything is perpetually shiny and sparking incredible reflections and light off everything regardless of where the light is actually supposed to be [although that actually sounds quite good now I've typed it out]. Ahem). I generally faff around a lot with the replace colour and dialling down the tones a bit, it sometimes takes an awful long time to get the right *balance* of colours and elements that come together, I certainly know I spent way too long on this picture before it all started to reveal itself to me... prime examples. Amusingly, and I think because I've been painting more recently, I tend to do my more complex versions on two layers and just blend all the colours on one layer...

Ha, I actually just had a little play around with masking as you explain it, and I can see it being another thing I take in to account when doing pictures, Nelson. Damn you! But thanks also, maybe I could just have a bit more of a play around with this picture... I can already see myself adding three layers of masks on to that picture (dark blue, dark red, opaque white-y reflection to accentuate where the light hits things). Although I may wait around until I really have a picture that demands to be done in this way (and I think I have one in mind...)

Sad you lost the original version of your pic (although like you say, now you know what you're actually going for, I'm sure it'll be much easier - that's what annoys me about photoshop the most; when I don't have a clear idea of what I want. I just like to know what I need to do and get it done because it makes me frustrated) I especially love the shadows of the plants and it's very interesting to see the elements of the original image that got cut, and rightly I'd say. I'm very fond of that picture! Please note the wine bottle/candle combo in my own picture - I'd completely forgotten people did this before! Ha, and it's actually a key sort of artefact for this comic I'm working on. I'm intrigued to know what you used to achieve the carpet affect, mind.

You seem in a fine vein of form at the moment, I must say, I've been keeping an eye on all your great caricaturing too... (as an aside, I was watching the football the other night and I'm always noticing just how spot on you are when you say "people look insane when they score a goal' ; for John Terry's head looked like it was about to pop in a scary way. And he didn't even score.)

Did you get round to doing some dry brush?
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
22:19 / 03.11.06
Ha! 'Tis lovely. We were working from the same brief there, although my protagonist's more interested in whatever televisual shite she's just hurried home to watch than whatever noble loftiness happens to be sat there on the bookshelf.

Photoshop's certainly all about options. Perhaps too many. But it's good to see your instincts winning out; as long as you know what's Right you won't end up over-egging your work just for the hell of it. And as you say, a freshly discovered effect may be wrong for the piece you're presently working on, but perfect for something in the pipeline.

(BTW, the carpet effect was almost certainly something to do with 'Noise' under the Filter menu... and while you're in that neck of the woods, try out Filter>Render>Clouds: it's the foundation for a million great texture effects)

(PS I bloody LOVE dry brush. Fast and flexible. Will post something shortly)
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:29 / 04.11.06
Ah Nelson, dont be fooled - you may think she appears concerned with noble loftiness, but she's not as much concerned with noble loftiness itself as she is concerned with appearing to be concerned with said noble loftiness! Our Emmé is something of an aspiring poser. Anyway this will all become apparent in the comic itself. Which I should stop talking about.

And finish.

Although the recent change in weather is really giving me all sorts of urges to draw something chilly.

I weep in anticipation of NELSON: DRY BRUSH ACTION!
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:21 / 04.11.06
So here is the picture with which I'm going to try out all sorts of fancy photoshoppery and masking and maybe even some NOISE for my plush window sill. Ha.



I used a new brush pen for this picture. I don't normally use brush pens, except for when I want something a little more robust and chunky than my more regular delicate brushy style. The brush pens I normally use (Faber-Castell Pitt) are good for this, they retain their shape well so you can be quite hard on them. They're cheap and they don't last long (although when they start to dry and lose their point they're still good to use for other effects) but I really like the change from delicate careful sometimes barely there lines to cutting loose with massive swoops of chunky bold-ness.

Anyway, this new brush pen isn't really like that and it feels more like an actual brush and isn't really very comfy, but I think it still sort of looks the same. Huh.

Anyway, I'll be back on this thread to show what comes of this picture...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
10:56 / 10.11.06
Work in progress...



I think it's now at the old tinkering stage, which always seems like it won't take long but inevitably takes the longest of all. Just until I find that sense of "Ah, it's finished".
 
 
Olulabelle
21:05 / 10.11.06
See all your beautiful clear lines? That's what I can't do. My drawings are really scrappy and messy:



There's no confidence in my lines like there is in yours. How can I learn to draw confident lines? Mine are all wibbly.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
21:40 / 10.11.06
Ha! Well, there seems to be one thing about artists in that they always want to be able to do that thing the other person can do, and thus they can't see the excellency of what they can do themselves!

By which I mean your drawing is really excellent. And wibbly in a way I don't think I could do, and looks like it would fit in a variety of nice illustrated books. I really think you could take and elaborate on your own distinct style, it's very unique and has lots of personality.

My line's aren't really confident at all, they're all quite careful and delicate; I've oft longed for when I could draw with a strong confident line that feels like I had complete control of it.

I'd love to see more Lula! I'd suggest you try out lots of different tools and pens and ink and brushes to see what you like best, just to get a good feel for it. Although maybe you don't even have to, your wibbly line is something to be embraced!
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
17:14 / 11.11.06


This is an example of my experimenting with photoshops, and masks... and pretty much everything in a way. I used lots and lots of things I never have before operating on a "throw everything at it, see what sticks" basis. Quite a learning experience, I now know a lot more about how all these things work and what I can do. But obviously, not all of this is necessary, or works here. It's very trigger happy. But the good thing about working like this is that it allows you to test out what might work for the picture (although I believe Nelson put this much better).

Eventually I stripped lots away (and it's all on seperate layers so that's easy enough) and went about integrating some little things I'd learnt on these ventures with my style a bit more and eventually settled on this...



I might still make a few little alterations and the like before I use it for whatever I'm going to use it for, but I'm fairly pleased.

Hurrah!
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
20:19 / 12.11.06
Yes, that third one's really clinched it. As assured as the original rendering was on, say, the trousers, that kind of 3D look would probably have swamped the inkline if you'd applied it to the whole thing. But you knew that already. Nice to see you've been feeling the noise there...

A happy aside is that the three of them work really well as a small 'series' (as in the same subject rendered at different times of the day, or under different weather conditions, like that Monet fellow used to do).

Lula: Suedey's absolutely right, you know. You really don't need to draw like anyone else. Well, alright, it can make for good practice, and you might pick up some useful tricks from doing so, but for god's sake don't do down your own style. I won't have it.

Here's my first stab at a finished drybrush.



It looked better at nine o'clock this morning, after which I somehow managed to simultaneously over and undercook the background, but feh. A bit more practice should tighten things up.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:01 / 01.12.06
Hee! It's actually part of the comic I'm working on at the moment - a key part of which revolves around the same subject rendered in lots of different forms/times of day/conditions. When I started, I didn't know it was going to be set at night, but it seemed more apt as I went on. I quite like that...

That dry brush is beautiful, it's great to see your unique style but done with something else! You seem to have a mighty impressive control over that line! I am imagining you using a really teeny brush for some reason. Oooh, I've got to try me some of that!

I am working pretty hard on my comic at the moment, and here are some tiny excerpts of things in progress...





However, I decided I needed to do something completely different as a little break from my comic... so I ended up seeing what it would be like if I ever did Spider-Man.



Which was lots of bright, chunky fun! Also I accidentally wrote a few stories for "SPIDEY!", which is either a four issue mini series or a bumper double issue. Um. Maybe I'll do some more pictures and send a proposal to Marvel one day...


Does anyone else suffer from aching hands? Any solutions? I mostly get it from the layouts and the lettering and the like it seems, which really takes its toll.

It's funny really, because after getting those bits out of the way, the actual drawing bit doesnt really take very long at all. Maybe a day or two of work. But equally, I'm unwilling to give up doing things in this way because I think it allows you to create a much more coherent page, because you get to balance things and integrate it all in to the page a lot more than if you did this later on the computer or something - merely drawing all the panels and placing things in over the top. I realise of course that there's lot of tricks in that area, but I think it's a lot better to be able to play around with the lettering as you go and have it all fit so you can utilise the space more fully (just as important, I think, as leaving enough space in the drawing so when it's sized down to be printed at comic size that is highlighted and accentuates the whole thing, rather than spending all your time drawing everything precisely and neatly then sizing it down and having the whole thing look a bit muddy and indistinct because of this). And of course, I don't so much work from a script anyway, it can all change and develop as the page comes along. Nothing is set out. The words are part of the picture and so they have to be a part of it as much as anything.

But fuck, my hand doesn't half ache.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:01 / 13.12.06


I've posted a whole sequence of this picture in it's various stages up on flickr there. It also includes me pretending to be the girl in the mirror. Quite pleased with the overall effect here, the little subtle stages of depth and crispness especially.

I'm going to have a break from my comic now, so I don't keep getting interrupted by all the kerfuffle of this festive season, and hopefully have one last burst early in the new year and get it all done in one shot rather than having everything getting continually broken up by family business.

What's everyone else up to?
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
17:55 / 16.12.06
Gosh, where is everyone...? Ah well, more absinthe for us, Mr Suedey.

I don't get aching hands anywhere near as much as I should; it only ever happens when a vicious deadline necessitates 10+ hours of frantic pencilling per day. Best solution is to submerge the ailing extremity in hot water for a few minutes every now and then, I reckon.

I'm enjoying your ongoing interest / obsession with women, windows, and, er... women next to windows. Again, that's a super, swooshy profile on the window girl from the last post but one. I think profiles are your current forte; there's an extra degree of stylisation there that's deeply retina friendly.

Me, I'm getting deeper and deeper into the Way Of The Brush. 'May never touch a bloody mapping nib again, frankly. Suddenly all my inking time seems to be spent actually inking, which hasn't half highlighted the fact that far too much said inking time in the past was spent waiting for the ink to dry or struggling to get lines to emerge from the nibs in the first place - a great way to lose much of the flow and spontaneity that makes an illustration more alive and vivacious.

A warm up sketch from t'other day:



This one started out as a caricature of Jarvis Cocker, promptly went wrong and turned into something else...



And here's the actual Cocker caricature that followed:



Lately I'm trying to think more about backgrounds, specifically architecture. It's a corner I keep cutting, and I need to put a stop to that. Basically, I find straight lines very, very dull, and much prefer the sweeping organic shapes you find on figures. I've been toying with the idea of treating buildings as characters when drawing them, imagining them as having a "personality" so as to make the process more interesting... stylise them into line.

Whatever, you can't beat certain humans for crazy shaped liberty-taking...



With someone like Russell Brand, you're exaggerating a hairstyle and a very specific way of moving/posing as much as you're exaggerating a face, if not more so, so he's a great subject. And I love drawing hair every bit as much as I dislike drawing buildings. Nothing beats a mad mess of hair.
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
09:37 / 18.12.06
Here's a new portfolio piece, first in ink:



Then Photoshopped:



Then re-mixed as a Christmas Card:

 
 
COBRAnomicon!
15:07 / 29.12.06


Here's the first page of a comic I've been working on (clicking on the picture should take you to the rest if you're so inclined). The whole thing came together during a really turbulent time-- new puppy, new house-- so I found myself having to come up with a whole new inking style because I never had the time or space to use brushes. There are spots where it came out rough, but overall, I'm happy with it.

The script for the comic was actually a short screenplay that my wife wrote; I thought adapting it to comics would make for an interesting exercise.
 
 
the Fool
03:15 / 24.01.07
Its taken a while, but here it is... the animated version.

Its a bit big so it may take a little while to load...

 
 
Mike Modular
09:01 / 24.01.07
I like that. I like that a lot.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
16:06 / 24.01.07
Can I buy it?

I'm serious. How much?
 
 
the Fool
00:45 / 25.01.07
Thanks for the kind words Mike and WP, I dunno if I can sell these things just yet (I want to do a gallery show with them all in it), but I can send to a big scale JPG for you to print, PM me if you are keen...
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
03:30 / 06.02.07
Allready lnked to them in the who are you thread, but here they are:

Jerry Cornelius

China Ink + Acrylics

Boxing Guy

China Ink + Photoshop
 
 
electric monk
16:22 / 09.02.07
I've found a lot of inspiration in this thread, so I want to share some of what that's led me to. Here's a drawing I've been working on over the past week. It's faaaar from done, and I think there's more wrong with it than right with it, but I'm going to keep hacking away at it. I'd eventually like to ink it, and will probably color it in Photoshop.



Critique appreciate, naturally.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:45 / 05.03.07
Aieee. My various replies to this thread have got a little too unwieldy to control when added to the various amounts of work I also now have to post/also talk about after neglecting to for so long. So firstly, keeping it simple - I offer an assortment of recent works, you can click through to view larger versions if you so wish!





 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:47 / 05.03.07


Sequence of an illustration for Plan B magazine.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:50 / 05.03.07
A few more recent bits -





 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
19:09 / 02.04.07
 
  

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