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The Drawing Salon

 
  

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Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:13 / 01.09.06
Which I shall get rolling with some pictures... most recently, musically inspired comic!







 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:23 / 01.09.06
To elaborate a little. I thought the board could use a place to firstly deposit pictures and ongoing work for persual, and secondly to have an actual place to talk about said pictures and how they got made (and thirdly hassle each other). I certainly know I've been guilty of just posting stuff all abaaaaaht the place more conversationally than anything, and I figured it would be nice - and also productive, inspiring and somewhat enthusing - to have an actual topic that keeps on keepin on.

Ask questions, post pictures, art queries - it all goes here! Tips, treats, secrets, pretties!
 
 
iamus
13:27 / 01.09.06
I think it's precisely the sort of thread that the barbeartists (and The Creation) need.
Will come back when I have some time, and work, to show.
 
 
Olulabelle
14:03 / 01.09.06
But we already have the Barbelith Art Gallery.

Perhaps if you wanted you could make this specifically about comic book drawing?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:48 / 01.09.06
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but this thread is really already intended to be quite different to that. S'why I mentioned drawing so much in the thread title, y'see.

Sorry if it's not clear enough (and I understand it isn't, but I have a clear idea of what it should be/become in my *mind*), I was mainly thinking of this as an extension of the kind of art postings that have occurred so often in the Conversation and elsewhere involving certain folk such as myself, Bed Head, iamus, Nelson, possibly Cameron et al - but given a permanent home and place in the forum. Really this topic is to keep that sort of pleasant mutual art enthusiasm thing ongoing, and quite unrelated ye olde Art Gallery.
 
 
Bed Head
15:56 / 01.09.06
Ah, but maybe if the other thread is a gallery, purely for hanging and displaying and, er, picking up people, then this thread says it has room for Tips, treats, secrets, pretties and suchlike? So, really, it’s maybe more of a salon in here. Ok, a Comic Art-y salon if you really want, but still. Tips and secrets! That sounds like the sort of spirit-elevating art talk that you get in a salon, I think.

*pours absinthe, reclines on chaise longue, peruses the pretties*
 
 
Bed Head
15:58 / 01.09.06
God, that’s what I get for wandering off to check my spelling of chaise bloody longue. What he just said, I mean.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:16 / 01.09.06
You put it very nicely, though! You flouncy bastard.
 
 
Olulabelle
18:13 / 01.09.06
I don't think the other thread is for picking up people so much as being a place to show people what you've been working on and discuss your work. I can see that this is a different idea, already based on mutual appreciation. Perhaps more of a drawing club?

Suedey, can you think of anything else to call this thread? Three lines is pretty long for a thread that you presumably plan should be around for a while. It's alright for something that will go away after a few days but I think this might get a bit irritating. Maybe you could call it the Drawing Room or something.
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
18:26 / 01.09.06
Seconded, Olulabelle.

Suedey, the profile in "Autumn" is especially swooshy, and if the frame above it doesn't show up in a NYPC CD booklet imminently then they, and you, will have missed out large time.

Here's a couple of "scribble sheets". In theory, these buggers come in handy for breaking in new nibs, troubleshooting difficult ones, and making random nonsense while waiting for the ink on your "proper" illustrations to dry.

In reality, their contents can all too easily shit on the finished stuff.

Kind of. But it's a lovely means of unselfconsciously playing around with lines, shapes, faces and figures, and birthing potential stylistic offshoots of what you usually do. Plus, inking straight onto blank paper is a slightly less terrifying leap of faith when the results don't really matter.





Some of it might even show up in a "proper" finished illustration in a page or two...

(the "Nelson Evergreen 2006" isn't a proprietorial thing, BTW, I was just practicing my signature)
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
10:39 / 03.09.06
Eeeee, yes! This is exactly what I was hoping for. I love seeing these sorts of things. Do you have any tricks to keep your nibs (a-ha) in order, Nelson? Mine are often awfully troubling (and generally I only use them for letters and backgrounds) sticking all over the shop, refusing to produce any sort of line at all.

They're all I used to use, as well! I feel a lot more suited to using a brush, I think, it's all light and swooshy. SWOOSH! Also it dries a hell of a lot faster. I do love the thick inky blackness though, although I invariably end up smudging it drawing as I do with the patented left hand claw.

It's funny seeing the few bits of pencil drawing in there as well, only cos I've never seen anything you've done in pencil! Is that Velma from Scooby Doo snuck away in there?

Here's some sketchbook





Faffed up colour version.
 
 
Bed Head
18:06 / 04.09.06
Wowzer. You kids and your lovely neat sketchbookery! I am too jealous. I don’t keep a sketchbook myself, because I’ve finally accepted that I can’t keep them neat or focussed, or organised, or free of shopping lists, or ‘to do’ lists, or lists of People I Currently Hate And Will Have Revenge On, or whatever. Basically, I rapidly end up using them as paper, rather than as drawing paper. So instead I have a big bulldog clip that keeps together a wodge of all sorts of different bits of paper, and I regularly weed out any non-drawing stuff that creeps into this wodge, and replenish it with new blank sheets as required. You get to use every last scrap and offcut from other stuff you’re working on, and I’ve found it cheaper than buying a new sketchpad every 5 minutes, too. It's ok.

Er, not that I have any sketch-stuff to show now. I don’t have easy access to a scanner at the moment. Boo. My sketches are all incomprehensible rubbish, anyway. I’ll just admire your fantabulously lovely sketches instead.

What I do have to show, however.... well, it’s sort of a sketch. I’ve been playing around this summer and trying to teach myself etching, and this is the very first etching that I produced (!!111). I’ve done, well, much better stuff since, I promise, but this is all I’ve got that’s been scanned and uploaded, so I’m showing it despite its many, many flaws.

CSpand_


Ok, so, first, it’s not such a great likeness (Buuuut - drawn from memory! In maybe 10 minutes! In a medium I was wholly unfamiliar with!), but it’s, uh, supposed to be a portrait of this mysterious pianist called Charlie Spand, and it’s sort of from my soon-to-be-forthcoming Barbelith Music Forum thread on Boogie-woogie pianists of the 1930s and 40s, I think, I hope. And, yes, there’s lots of Arghh Badness about the drawing itself, lots of lines gone awry and stuff, but leaving all that aside, one of the things I’m really liking about this technique is the swirly, inky, splodgy tone that you can get just by leaving a little too much ink on the plate. Real etchers knowingly refer to this as 'Plate tone,' apparently. I’ve sort of overdone the ol’ plate tone here, but, dammit, I love it. The ink smells nice, too. And I’m getting rather excited about how I can use this effect in this comic I’m working on at the moment, which should ideally have a swirly, smoky, late-night feel about each and every panel. So, yay. Subtle tones have always been a bit of a problem for me - I’m not a fan of washes, which to my eyes can be just too different to yr solid comicbook-y lines; I think letratone and suchlike looks mechanical and ARGHH UGLY; 'atmospheric' cross-hatching can seem, well, too much if you’re already using More Than A Certain Number of lines to describe the shape of all the solid stuff. I've been trying using a sort of scuzzy dry brush effect to do that sort of thing, and that's been okay. But I think I’ve finally found a reeeally good way to put *space* into a picture - to draw the air around the figures, so to speak - without needing to use anything too ‘solid.’ If that makes any sense. I like this effect because it’s almost not there at all.


So, anyway, that’s me. Do I sound overly ART-serious and furrow-browed? I hope not. I think I might be talking about things happening in my head that aren’t really apparent in this objectively-rather-poor first picture out of the press, but the point is, really, that I’m currently enjoying playing around with this whole thing. Also that etching involves TURNING A BIG WHEEL, and a fair amount of BURNING THINGS WITH ACID. It’s fun! Yay art.
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
14:20 / 22.09.06
Bed, you'd best get yourself scannered up so we can feast our eyes on the rest. That's a great start.

I absolutely loved printing at college... etching and lino cut, mmm. Lino in particular is an incredibly tactile technique, gouging out chunks of the board with yer scalpel. I always meant to return to it, but never did.

Etching does tend to give good half tone, doesn't it? Me, I'm all digital nowadays, but I've been thinking about putting together a "texture library" for use on the computer; doing a load of texture rubbings just like we all do on the first day of art college, scanning them in and having them on call for those occasions when nice flat clean computer colours just aren't cutting it.

After which, of course, all manner of Photoshoppery can be applied to render them doubly ace.

The above waffle would've appeared sooner if not for this here job I just finished.



I'd long been meaning to caricaturise That Nice Young Wayne Rooney and his "angry bag of potatoes" face and physique for my portfolio, so was pretty damn chuffed to recieve a commission requiring me to do precisely that.

Plus other sporting giants...





This sort of stuff would be a hoot to draw even without the demented triumphalism of the subjects' expressions. People look insane when they score a goal. It's great.
 
 
iamus
00:06 / 01.10.06
So.....

I've recently been up to Hope Street Studios and had some very illuminating pointers from the All Star team, in particular the very lovely Jamie Grant. I brought up a piece of linework, which we scanned and after a wee bit of colouring tutorial, I've been left to my own devices.

The result:




It's not quite finished yet. Still not sure how to tackle the veins on the flower-halo. But I'm pretty pleased with how it's going. Certainly the best colour job I've ever done. Picking up just a few simple tricks (like knowing how to separate the thing into flats, tints, inks, ink flats and the like) really goes a long way. I have other sketchbook stuff which I'll be working on just now, including a caricature of the legendary Tom Weir... so I'll post when I can.

I've not done any Lino printing since secondary school. Liked it lots, apart from severe scarring to the thumbs. It's that tactile, gouging quality that's so great about it. Leaving lino shavings all over the place like the aftermath of a giant rubbing out his pencil drawings. I need to practice some more alternative forms of art. There's more fun to be had than simple mark-making and colouring in.
 
 
Olulabelle
13:40 / 01.10.06
Nelson, your sports pictures are amazing. You should sell them to a newspaper.
 
 
StarWhisper
14:34 / 01.10.06
Yes, lino prints are good. They are satisfying to make. The best way is to heat up the lino in the oven for a few minutes, or put it on a radiator. There is less chance you will injure yourself that way.
To get a good idea of the finished piece or if you're having a hard time visualising it, you can make a frottage before you print.
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
16:57 / 01.10.06
Thanks Lula. They were actually done for a DVD cover - some interactive quiz type thing for talkSPORT radio - but I'll certainly be using them to try and get some newspaper and magazine work...

iamus, it's interesting to see that you do realistic too. Are you using masks yet? That's where Photoshop really took flight for me.
 
 
iamus
18:08 / 01.10.06
Realistic style is something I do, though not nearly as often because I find it a lot harder. It's something I'm definitely working on. I'm getting into study mode these days, as opposed to "swing the pen.... see what happens".

The linework is a bit strained and unsure in the above and the thing doesn't have as much character or .......hang to it..... if you know what I mean. It's a bit too stiff, I think, and that's at odds with the pose and general feel.


As for masks.... not yet. They are still in the area of the strange and frightening to me. I had the briefest of brief introductions to them during the year I did of a Computer Arts course. Enough to know that they're incredibly useful, but that's about it. Any chance you could share a bit on them, or point us in the direction of decent intertron resources? As far as 2D computer art goes, masks and vector art are the two areas I simultaneously know least about and want to know more about.


Vector.

I have a copy of Illustrator, but I've yet to make any headway into it at all. I'm a big fan of Mucha, y'see. That particular style of Art Nouveau. The elegant ladies with the long, flowing perfect lines.

While the man obviously didn't have all the computer frippery at his disposal, vector art lends itself to that perfectly, which is why I really want to learn it. It's the sort of thing I reckon I could really go to town on if I managed to wrangle it.

Otherwise, I don't have the means at my disposal to replicate it. I only work in pen at the mo and have to ink straight to the page, on top of pencils, having to go veeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyy sllllllloooooowwwwllllllyyyy and deliberately (hence the lines above), whereas that sort of form would come out best with a strong and assured sweep.

The closest I've gotten to that sort of thing (mixed with Chinese influence) is this picture....



That's from a while ago now, and unfinished because that arm on the right is horribly out of proportion, causing "art fatigue". I bought some white ink and plan on going back and fixing soon.


Urm..... apart from that..... I'm taking a stab at both proper inking and fine pencil work. Bought in inks, brushes, brush pens and nibs (and I have it on good authority that you are the Nib Master, Nelson) to take a stab at the former, and am currently chasing up non-reprographic pencils (which, it seems, are impossible to find in art shops nowadays) to help with the latter.

I also dabble a bit in pixel art....





It's a medium I really love and it helps with form and colour theory. I've learnt a lot from pixel artists, their uses of dithering, interlacing and ability to suggest so much with so little space. I can point in the direction of other people's work that expands on that if anyone is interested in that.

I'm in the early planning stages of an odd one-page animated pixel-art Jenny comic, but we'll see where that goes.

Nelson. There's a picture on your site of a girl watching TV. It's all purpley-pink and indescribably lovely. Is there any way you could talk a bit about how it was done?


Apart from that....

Suedey: More here please. I want notes in the vein of your LJ stuff.

Bed Head: Updates on your printing and etching.

Lula: I've seen that you draw goblins on envelopes and stuff. Anything more you want to show us?

Everyone else who draws but hasn't posted here yet: You know who you are. Set about it!
 
 
Mike Modular
21:47 / 01.10.06
Well, if you insist iamus... A recent doodle that just sort of kept going and became, like, a composition:



I'm probably too old and into a career now to fulfill teenage dreams of being a Serious Artist (ie. drawing comics) but I've always had a sketchbook on the go since school. Mostly they all look a bit like Nelson's scribbble sheets (though not as good, obviously) and most of my drawing time now is between cues at work...(!) Ink straight to paper usually, no one to please but myself, sometimes interesting/satisfying results come out. I might just scan some more in... Hoping to get some good tips and inspiration from this thread whilst otherwise marvelling at the (entirely expected) quality so far (and to come...)
 
 
iamus
14:59 / 02.10.06
B....but...... that's dead good!

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about not being able to fufill childhood dreams because of career. You seem to have the means at yr disposal to do a nice wee web-comic at least. Even if you don't think you'd be doing it professionally, it'd be worth it just for the lark of it.

Like to see more of yr stuff.
 
 
Mike Modular
19:08 / 02.10.06
Aw, thank you. Yeah, a web comic could be fun, just need to get round to it one of these days... Will certainly scan some more pics shortly and be back with questions for the pros...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
18:03 / 03.10.06
I keep meaning to come back to this properly, and the reply keeps getting bigger and bigger in my mind... come back I shall. One day. Mostly cos I'm working on bigger things which I don't want to reveal too soon. But in due time, I'll hit you with so many notes you might cry.

But for now, Mike, that picture is great! I especially like the face of the guy on the right, with the 'tache. Very nice. Seeing as that's what you doodle, I see no reason why you couldn't doodle up a comic while at work!

Have some veg.

 
 
the Fool
22:12 / 03.10.06
Hey kids,

I thought I'd post one of my organics pieces, in progress, to show how they form, and to show how incredibly scrappy they are underneath, LOL!

I'll keep taking 'snapshots' to show how it eventually envelops the page and converts the scribble into organic thingies!

 
 
iamus
23:36 / 03.10.06
Oooooooo. I didn't realise that's how you built them up. I reckoned the structure was just built up on a blank page as you went along.

You should take loads of pictures of one from beginning to end, and string them together in an animated .gif
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
15:06 / 04.10.06
Mike: Yes, you must draw and post more, I like that sketch very much. Fool: cool, let's see that doodle develop. Suedey: All hail the wonder of Broccoli.

I'm going to reply in stages, otherwise I'll be at the keyboard all bleedin' day.

Firstly: NIBS.

For years I used these rubbish plastic mapping nibs which, despite their rubbishness, still gave the kind of wildly diverse line that I couldn't seem to replicate with anything else. Then I discovered a metal equivalent - much sturdier and harder to spoil - which instantly made the inking experience a far happier one (Hiro Leonardt no. 800, it says on the neck).

If you trawl the net for pro inking tutorials, you'll find a lot of chaps talking about "good" nibs which give you days - if not weeks - of selfless service, and "dud" nibs, which get maybe an hour's use and go straight in the bin. This is about right, but the truth is that all mapping nibs are temperamental buggers. Good ones can get moody and need resting, while even the most obstinate dud will usually come up trumps and go through some sort of golden age if you persevere with it. Of course, every minute spent getting that dud to see sense will be annoying when you just want to, y'know, draw, and positively excruciating if you're working to a tight deadline...

So, I've recently started having two nibs on the go, the idea being that if one goes peculiar and stops giving line, I'll put it out to pasture for a while and continue working with the other. They do seem to get uppity when you work them too hard, but it's rare for both to be difficult simultaneously.

The scheme is hardly infallible: from time to time I still get angry and swear loudly at the bastards, but the whole foaming at the mouth thing that was formerly my lot is thankfully in decline.

From my point of view, having two on the go works in other ways too. Sometimes I like to really attack the page, hacking brash, thick, jagged lines onto it. This is a fantastic way to kill a nib, so I'll more likely use the older of the two. The other one might be just about broken in, entering it's prime and giving a perfect, smooth variation of line, so I'll employ that for finer detail until it's ready to go out in a brutal blaze of glory like it's co-worker did before it.

Jesus, me and my bloody nibs.

One really important thing is to use hot/boiling water to soak them before and after use, and for cleaning them during use. For years I used cold water, oblivious to the notion that things generally work better when they're warmed up, until a wise soul suggested as much. And it does work, it helps the flow.

There's more where all that came from, but the rest is so stupidly specific and technical I'll keep it buried unless anyone badly wants it unearthed.

Back with stuff about Mucha, masks, vectors and the pink lady later this week...
 
 
iamus
16:25 / 04.10.06
Ta, Nelson. You're a star.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:24 / 04.10.06
Fool, how wonderful to have such a beautiful doodle always on the go. So what happens, you write stuff down and then the doodle stuff just starts to flow around the bigger original notes things?

I am in awe of all of you.

iamus, I might post some stuff one day but I mainly feel afraid of people pointing out I'm crap. Then I'd feel gutted and sulk and not do things because what's the point, and that would make me feel ridiculously emo and teenage, neither of which I currently am or want to be, so it's best left alone really, I'll just keep them in my book where they belong.

Plus also I prefer to look at everyone elses. Ooer.
 
 
iamus
21:07 / 04.10.06
I might post some stuff one day but I mainly feel afraid of people pointing out I'm crap.

No such nonsense shall be permitted within this thread.

This is holy ground.
 
 
TeN
00:31 / 05.10.06
I didn't know that's how you made those either, Fool
that's fascinating and fantastic
 
 
the Fool
05:38 / 05.10.06
lulabelle, Iamus & TeN: They don't always start as scribble, but the more 'dense' ones do. These ones are just notes of what to do at work, phone numbers, reminders etc. Then, slowly, the organics spread, absorbing the words and scribble, using them as a framework. For other pieces its just a quick sketch that I slowly fill in. There is always a structure beneath though, whether notes and scribble or something more deliberate.
 
 
Olulabelle
07:37 / 06.10.06
Helpful hint for the day, from Quentin Blake on Radio 4 just now:

"It's best to draw when you're feeling relaxed. That way you're actually thinking about where that arm goes, or what that gesture looks like rather than worrying about whether or not you're going to spoil it."
 
 
iamus
12:19 / 07.10.06
Wise words.

I also read the other week that he drew his first cover for Punch Magazine with a cheap toothpick he bought from Boots. That's totally perfect.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:47 / 10.10.06
In the interests of keeping this afloat, on the board as well as just in my brain...



I love my brush. I really like how, using it, I can go from sharp black lines to dry tonal haphazard scruffiness. It's ace. Completely different styles, all fluid and linked! Eeee. It excites me somewhat.

Really liked hearing your nibs babble, Nelson! I just started soaking mine (not as often as I should) a while back, they still have a tendency to make me angry (I usually have three I can use, but like I say, I just them for finer background stuff really*) or become angry themselves. I could stand to hear some more, too! I really need to get some new ones, actually. Unfortunately they seem a rarity round here, even art shops (grr) look a bit baffled and just unearth some old box for me to rifle through that's merely full of the same ones.

*Because it's still a great quality of line, finer than a brush but not like say, some nasty fine line pen. I used to think that's all people drew with, and I harbour some bitterness by being led to believe this as a child because they were labelled "drawing pens" so clearly that is what everybody was supposed to use!

Also it's nice to see how you develop those things fool!
 
 
iamus
19:23 / 10.10.06
Ah... what brush do you use, S-man?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
19:36 / 10.10.06
 
  

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