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Children of Men

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
14:16 / 30.01.07
Zen's Zed baby, Zen's Zed...
 
 
Corey Waits
23:59 / 30.01.07
According to SoundtrackINFO, the "zen music" was Aphex Twin's "Omgyjya Switch7" off the "Drukqs" album.

Excellent, thanks. I thought it was Venetian Snares 'cause the bass sounded more like Snares than Twins, but with a short sample of glitch it's always hard to tell.

/me goes and puts on some Snares anyway.
 
 
Blake Head
21:56 / 04.02.07
Saw it tonight. Still thinking about it.

Thought the realisation of UK society was very good, technology has progressed slightly but without significant innovation, virtual adverts slapped onto clapped out buses, there's no motivation to upgrade things for the future when no-one will be there to appreciate it. It felt real in a way that makes V for Vendetta look laughable. The shots of Theo walking around London with the police having a very visible presence was just close enough to reality to be convincing, but distant enough that the development of the idea of what we allow to happen now because it’s ever so slightly removed from our immediate perception was very potent. It was also surprising and extremely effective how they managed to combine humour and even moments of cuteness (the cat climbing his leg?) with the prevailing theme of horror.

was at least someone wearing the same(ish?) colors and with similar hair and build

Chiropteran: I think it was the older woman you see earlier when the rebels are sitting around the table discussing what to do with Kee.

One thing that confused me was why the midwife was singled out and presumably executed. There were a couple of moments like that where scenes designed to show the horror and chaos of oppression/conflict threatened suspension of disbelief yet overall worked well in the film, but where afterwards I was left wondering how they fitted into the narrative other than as generic random acts of violence. Only a couple though, I thought it was extremely compelling overall.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:36 / 11.02.07
Watched the DVD this afternoon. I loved the design of the thing, it really immersed me in the film in a way I haven't really experienced outside of Blade Runner and Lord of the Rings and the way they don't slap you round the face of it, there's no "And if you look over there, why, it's Picasso's 'Guernica' which I happened to save!" He talks about all this stuff he's managed to save but doesn't mention the huge piece of art next to him. This film really has confidence that it's viewers are intelligent.

So it's a shame that I found I wasn't really interested in the story. Maybe I've watched too much apocalypto stuff but I wasn't actually engaged with the quest, or the main characters to any great length. Plus there are some awkward plot points, such as how Julian is shot in a car moving backwards deliberately yet later people don't attempt to shoot Theo in case they shoot Kee. And others have commented on Miriam's sudden disappearance from the plot. But the last twenty or so minutes, when Theo and Kee are separated and he makes his way to the hotel, then up to her, then back down and out, looked amazing.
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
10:57 / 28.02.07
For those interested in the background set design, this promo reel from the digital graphics firm that did all the displays, tv and advertising in the film is brilliant. I love, love, love the little details that you can see in this reel, especially they rampant inflation (£249 for a dog jacket?). Brilliant stuff. Just ordered the DVD oh yes.
 
 
Lugue
03:56 / 17.03.07
Finally rented it tonight and watched it with some friends. Sorry to be bumping this, but I kinda feel like ranting.

I think an important point that's been made is how the movie works excellently the "show, don't tell" rule. Not only in the beginning, with a clear introduction to the general setting, but throughout, details such as, as mentioned, the way the midwife drew attention to herself (in a relatively subtle way; it somehow didn't feel immediately obvious to me that she was doing so) and then as the bus progresses the final shot of the lined-up corpses tells us exactly how this is likely to go. That one stuck with me.

And in terms of Le Action, damn. We commented, when watching the scene where Theo, Kee and the midwife run away from the Fishes in the car, "this has to be the worst escape I've ever seen", and laughed, but in a congratulory way: it felt messed-up, clumsy, about to fail. No wonderfully speedy car, no immediate entering vehicles to chase them (yeah, I liked the detail of Theo actually thinking, hey, might be best to actually stop them from chasing after us). If felt like an attempt at an escape rather than, immediately, an escape, if that makes sense. It felt as a moment developing rather than when already fulfilled and just rolling out before us in an obvious way. Because it could easily go wrong and in such a simple manner. And the way DreadBastard gets the door again and falls to the side of the road manages to be amusing and exciting at the same time. Killed me.

The previous scene that that bit refers to is brilliant, too (when all four are attacked on the road). I was genuinely surprised and confused by the car in flames, which suddenly came to make sense with the crowd attacking, all rage and a sense of lack of organization as they just pratically threw themselves at the car, only to be cut by the motorcycle, making a strange contrast of tech vs pack-mentality (if this makes sense), amping up the danger quotient... and the death. Wonderful. Sudden blood, and panick, and Theo's hand on her throat... I can't really remember seeing an action scene that was quite so raw and with a dense feeling of "Yes, this is all about to go to shit"; it genuinely felt wrong and disturbing. Wonderful.

Of course, none of this is new, but the thing is, well like just about everyone here I loved seeing it, but I can't say I loved it. Theo had no character arch beyond the notion of, after his child's death, taking up a, in a sense, "political" and active funcion again to protect a child. Granted, with Jasper's comment about how his faith was expressed in his son, and his death by random implied the end of his faith, his actions gain an extra weight and meaning as a regaining of faith. But his general lack of emotional presence kept that from coming into reality as an emotional process for me, and his death evades any sense of resolution for the character. His death is just, well, his active function taken to the extreme as sacrificial.

Jasper makes up for it, but not fully, when taking in consideration that the midwife is put out of the picture and Kee serves a function rather than being much of a character in her own terms.

Actually, Theo's death just bored the fuck out of me, as did the way it coincided with them being found. All Will Be Well!... but, Oh!, The Hero, He Shall Not See It! felt like such a major fucking cliché. Some sort of aftermath would have satisfied me as well. Nothing too obvious, of course, but if the film-makers had found a way to somehow give a sense of greater calm and security in the end, I'd be more satisfied.

I also got kind of stuck on a What If regarding the birth - for a second there, I genuinely though "Oh fuck, the baby's dead", and expected a wholly new direction for the film. It was an impressive shift of direction. It's a shame it... well, wasn't. It might be interesting to see how to play out that Kee herself, not the child, is "the miracle", and put that to work in a harsh, almost practical sense while doing away with the imagery of the baby in danger.

So I guess I'm saying, in essence... Wonderful "succession of events", all well-written and well executed, but a lack of a cohesive line of character development. So I enjoyed it. Sure. But I couldn't fall in love with it as some have.
 
 
diz
06:16 / 17.03.07
Jasper makes up for it, but not fully, when taking in consideration that the midwife is put out of the picture and Kee serves a function rather than being much of a character in her own terms.

I thought the way that Miriam was taken out so suddenly was one of the best parts of the movie. Kee attracts attention, she takes the fall for her, and boom! she's just gone, and that's the way it is. So effective.
 
 
iamus
21:14 / 25.03.07
Holy fuck. I saw this last night and it totally blew me away. What a beautiful, horrible film. I can't remember the last time I cried at a movie, but this had me in fits towards the end. A truly, truly great movie that so perfectly sums up everything that's right and everything that's wrong with us as a species. They should show it to aliens. It's such a perfectly judged piece in so many ways, from the subject matter, time of release, technical standpoint, aesthetics...

It's less a movie about where we could end up soon as it is one about where we are right as this moment, as viewed from another angle (though that's same difference, I suppose). It's about the very root problem of our self-destructive nature and the totally fucking moronic paradoxes in the way we think. It's a world where every single human being on the planet is united in mourning, where everybody shares the same deep and profound loss, but they express it by turning on each other and exacerbating the problem infinitely. It's so bad that the solution to the whole thing is transformed into a catalyst for it. Where people are so caught up in the nightmare that they'll put the only glimmer of light into mortal danger without a second thought just to perpetuate it.

It's perfect that that "cunts are still running the world" song by Jarvis Cocker plays over the credits, because all through the movie that's what's the problem exactly. A bunch of self-important dicks playing dress-up with guns and flushing the planet down the toilet because they can't admit to themselves (or each other) how vulnerable they are. Relevant much?


For me it really starts with that extended car sequence where Julianne Moore gets shot. That hits like a punch in the stomach, and from that point on, you know what kind of movie it is and the kind of world we're in, where death is more important to people than life, and anyone you see can and will be taken out needlessly. That's a nightmarish scene, all the more visceral and immediate because of the way it's shot and the way it turns from the light-hearted ping-pong moment (that really pulls those characters together). This isn't a film where love will triumph over all, because there's very little love left in that world. It kind of worked in my advantage leaving it so long to see this, because I thought I remembered Julianne Moore in more scenes than she was actually in from the trailer. That made her death even more shocking. It's worse when Miriam gets pulled off the bus and hooded. Nobody cares that these people are protagonists. It's not a Hollywood story.

It's one big Pandora's box. Everything good gets succesively stripped away, leaving Kee as the only ray of hope. A fragile thing that could go out at any minute. At the point where Theo catches up to her in the tower block (after being abducted by the Fish) and the baby's revealed to that reaction that shatters the whole war-game illusion (if only for a minute), it got a bit too much for me and it all came out. I really can't remember the last time a film did that to me.



I thought Clive Owen was amazing in this, and I'm not a Clive Owen fan. I think the guy's alright, probably a nice fellow, but I've been pretty unimpressed with his previous stuff (Closer was a pile of self-indulgent wank about a group of whiny rich fannies fucking each other over and then complaining about it, imo. Not his fault, but still..). Here, he was a bit of a revelation. The way he holds the camera for those long takes, hitting all the marks and pulling off the insanely complicated technical stuff while still delivering all the emotional wallop needed. That's not an easy thing to do at all.

Theo is a great hero for this movie. It's not about posturing, it's not about winning, it's not about proving anything, it's about survival in its purest sense, metaphorically stripped right back to the base point of all or nothing. He never picks up a gun because fighting is what everybody else is doing. Fighting is the whole problem. Theo's whole purpose is finding Kee a way through and around the messes everybody else is caught up in. He has little or no Ego (and limited characterisation in the classical sense) because he's defined by his goal, which is wholly nonconfrontational.


Kee.....

I think there's many reasons why this has to be a female fertility problem for the movie to work dramatically. If it's a male problem with a completely fertile female population, it lessens the dramatic weight by quite a bit. If we have a single fertile male in the movie then he could theoretically help with the conception of a dozen new children in one day (provided Barry White CD's are still available). With a single female, the odds are a lot worse and the situation is a lot more precarious because everything hangs on that one pregnancy. If Kee goes, you've lost it all. If Kee's baby goes, you've lost it all.


I know there's about another three times as much that I want to say about this, but my brain's conspiring against me... Hopefully I'll get back to it later.

Bloody wonderful movie.
 
 
Hieronymus
14:36 / 26.03.07
The DVD's out soon. *makes clacky, lip-smacking sounds*

Anyone think it won't have nearly the same oomf on the small screen as it did seeing it in theatres?
 
 
Feverfew
14:45 / 26.03.07
Hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.
 
 
iamus
00:52 / 27.03.07
It was the small screen I saw it on, thanks to naughty internet majicks, and it still reduced me to the emotional state of a toddler with a scraped knee.

I'll be buying it as soon as it comes out, mind. 'Cause it's a belter.

Would love to see this on the big screen, but being able to watch it all on my lonesome with absolutely nothing around to distract was a definite boon.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
18:45 / 27.03.07
I saw this at the time of its release and was fairly shocked at the emotional rawness and impact it had, for what seemed to have been marketed as A.N. Other blockbuster. Like iamus, it brought forth tears at several points.

The moment when I realised I'd completely invested in the film came when Miriam is being laid to rest in the forest and Theo, off by himself, just crumples and starts to sob. My thought at the time was: This guy's not a hero. We're not going to make it. It was somehow more shocking than anything earlier just because so many movies won't ever admit the possibility that the protagonist is likely to fail.
 
 
Janean Patience
11:18 / 28.03.07
The scene where Dreadies gets back to the farmhouse and gets yelled at, they spell things out pretty explicitly in that scene:

"Why did you bring the bike back here! We can't let her find out that we killed Julianne!"


This was one of the few things I disliked about the film; the revolutionaries turned out, predictably, to be the bad guys. Before that dialogue I had the impression Theo was going to take Kee away from them because, like many small radical groups, they were impractical and incompetent and unworthy of the responsibility they'd been given. It would have had the ring of truth, IMHO, if the arguments about what to do with Kee were all ideological and stupid and nobody was a bad killer.
 
 
Chiropteran
13:41 / 28.03.07
...the revolutionaries turned out, predictably, to be the bad guys.

To be fair, I don't know if they were the "bad guys," so much as also "bad guys." The Fish and the government were both organizations that had political interests in Kee, and were fighting between themselves for control over her as political capital - they were enemies, but they were on the same side of the polarity that the movie built up. On the other end of the beam was the Human Project which was, as far as we know, dedicated to finding a scientific solution to the infertility problem, politics be hanged (or, at least, the specific issues of fugee rights, etc. that concerned the Fish, and the control interests of the government).

It would have had the ring of truth, IMHO, if the arguments about what to do with Kee were all ideological and stupid and nobody was a bad killer.

History is full of bloody power struggles within revolutionary groups, whatever their stated ideology, so while the specific line quoted above may ring hollow, the scenario itself is based in extensive precedent, and quite grimly realistic. The Fish (or a faction thereof) and the government both kill to advance their aims. I don't think the point was to vilify the revolutionaries as such*, but to show that ideology and politics (and political entities, whether official or underground) are ill-equipped to deal with species-wide problems of this nature, and their rivalries and machinations can only obstruct the search for a real solution. At least, that's how I saw it.

*as in, I don't think the movie intended to be "anti-revolutionary propaganda," in a simple sense.
 
 
Chiropteran
13:55 / 28.03.07
On the other end of the beam was the Human Project which was, as far as we know...

To add, we don't really know that the Human Project is necessarily any better (for Kee and the baby, in personal terms) than anyone else - in pursuit of a solution to the fertility problem, they may well end up simply using Kee as a test subject, just as the Fish/government wanted to use her (and/or her baby) for political ends.

Theo represents the third option - he has no use for Kee, and his concern for her is simply, apolitically, human; she asked him for his help, he gave it. He is aware, of course, of the immense importance of the pregnancy/birth as an event, but finally he just wants to make sure that she and the baby are safe and healthy. The Human Project seems to be the best bet for survival, under the circumstances, but the movie specifically stresses the ambiguity of their fate.
 
 
Janean Patience
17:08 / 28.03.07
History is full of bloody power struggles within revolutionary groups, whatever their stated ideology. I don't think the point was to vilify the revolutionaries as such but to show that ideology and politics... and their rivalries and machinations can only obstruct the search for a real solution.

You've put what I meant to say better than I did. The Fish are a political group and, to them, Kee's pregnancy was a political act they could use to further their political aims. No matter whether their aims were objectively in the best interest of Kee and her child or not. I thought it slightly heavy-handed to have them be killers and for there to be a plot within their organisation when someone like Theo who has, as you said, concern for her which is simply, apolitically, human would probably see it as Kee's best option to get the fuck away from them anyway.

It is a minor quibble, though, in a superb film. I have to say that I fucking love Clive Owen. He's a movie star in the best sense, willing to pledge his talent and magnetism to the movie's cause rather than demanding it be tailored to him. (not that he's been in a position to make many demands in his cinematic career so far).
 
 
Mistoffelees
19:58 / 05.06.07
I bought the DVD and am a bit miffed. On the back cover it says "audio commentary by Slavoj Zizek". What it doesn´t say, is that that commentary is six minutes on the bonus disc. I feel cheated. Why do they think they need to fool the DVD buyer like that? The making of is also a joke, a couple of minutes with people patting each other on the back for some nice camera work. So if you want the DVD, buy a used rental DVD.
 
 
grant
20:32 / 05.06.07
Eh? The DVD I saw had a short standalone bit by Zizek, then a mound more Zizek stuff in a documentary about, well, the world of Children of Men being our world right now, where he was rattling on alongside Naomi Klein, Jim "Gaia Hypothesis" Lovelock, Tvetan Todorov and a bunch of other people. That thing was longer than half an hour, and full of stuff.

I don't actually remember anything about women or men being authoritatively labeled as infertile in the film. I mean, just that no one made any more babies - not that one sex or the other was "responsible."

I also read that as an ecological problem, probably brought on by some kind of pollution.
 
 
sleazenation
22:44 / 05.06.07
There are a number of different versions of this on DVD - I have seen a rental version that has minimal extras - I have also heard of an initial vanilla release that irked Cuaron, who was expecting a higher quality special edition version first - apparently the special edition which followed exchangable with the previous vanilla versions for a time...
 
 
grant
01:37 / 06.06.07
I have no idea which version I watched - it came from Netflix, though.
 
 
Mistoffelees
07:50 / 06.06.07
Eh? The DVD I saw had a short standalone bit by Zizek, then a mound more Zizek stuff in a documentary about, well, the world of Children of Men being our world right now, where he was rattling on alongside Naomi Klein, Jim "Gaia Hypothesis" Lovelock, Tvetan Todorov and a bunch of other people. That thing was longer than half an hour, and full of stuff.

I´ve got that short documentary, too. In the US, the DVD extras might be better. What makes me angry, is the obvious mislabeling of the extras content. They only would have had to tell me the AC is on the bonus DVD, and I would have known, it´s no real AC, but some flimsy thrown in commentary.


I don't actually remember anything about women or men being authoritatively labeled as infertile in the film. I mean, just that no one made any more babies - not that one sex or the other was "responsible."

In the movie, women are infertile; in the novel it´s the men.
 
 
Mistoffelees
07:55 / 06.06.07
I found a source for that question. Here´s an interview with the director, where he explains some questions about CoM.
 
 
posthumous parvenues
16:14 / 16.06.07
Actually, Theo's death just bored the fuck out of me, as did the way it coincided with them being found. All Will Be Well!... but, Oh!, The Hero, He Shall Not See It! felt like such a major fucking cliché.

I think I agree with this, and would add that there is a distinctly passive reliance on the trope of salvation - the Human Project functions, annoyingly, as a kind of Zion or promised land. Having said that, the refusal of the film to define exactly who or what the Project is (when Mirium reveals to Theo on the bus that the only contact is via mirrors, that smoke-and-mirrors feeling throws real doubt on it) is a difficult but open ending I felt both cheated by (for not getting my dose of heartstring-stroking relief from a 'happy' end), and totally jarred.

Would the film have worked if Kee or her child were killed, in a random and brutal way? or if all three had climbed aboard the 'Tomorrow' ship only to discover they were as bad as the zealots in Fish? To my mind, CoM walks a tight line between collapsing everything down to a Manichean morality tale (unsurprising to learn of James' faith - it must drive her novel) and urging the viewer to "look beyond" humanity for the all-encompassing answer. Ambiguous as the ending is, everything in the film drives towards this - a reminder that, ultimately, even a dystopia-realist film as superb as this one can only ever fall back on something sublime, out of reach, in order to end the bloody torture the film dramatises.
 
 
Blake Head
18:01 / 16.06.07
Hmmm, not entirely sure whether you ultimately think the unknowability of the Project is a good thing or not Cathryn. I think the film could have worked with either an "all is well" ending, or a brutal one, or something in between, but personally I found that the tension maintained by not resolving that issue (and I don't believe they did, though it was a while ago - hmmm, must get the DVD and re-watch) was far more dramatically satisfying. And because the Project has to stand in for all the "exits" to the film the more open-ended conclusion leaves the greater world the characters inhabit less determined, which feels more plausible and not as potentially as reductive as the alternatives.
 
 
posthumous parvenues
19:09 / 16.06.07
Yes - I think the unkowability of the Project is good, and the dramatic ambiguity important on those levels... what I have problems with is the fallback into the Zion trope, I think.. the very existence of the Project as the film's guiding beacon. Perhaps a crude comparison would be the thrust of the Matrix trilogy, although CoM is IMO a much more interesting film. What intersts me about it are those biblical parallels, how they are rendered with a dose of irony and whether or not they ultimately adhere to a stultifying, slightly banal form of essentialist humanism...?
 
  

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