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Children of Men

 
  

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MintyFresh
05:42 / 26.08.06
Film website: story, photos, and a trailer
In the future, women are incapable of reproducing, the world has run out of children, and humanity has become an endangered species.

I just saw the trailer for this and was completely blown away. Directed by Alfonso Cuaron and starring Clive Owen, this is looking to be one of the greatest films of the year.

However, I'm noticing a few anti-feminine issues. In the film, it's the women who have a fertility problem, thus the extinction of the species could be blamed on women. Also, the film is called Children of MEN. Men, not women, which seems to be hinting that it's up to men to save the world by solving the female problem. Added to the fact that the whole film seems to center around a man protecting a girl who managed to get pregnant, I can definitely see a few feminist groups taking offence to this film.
Any thoughts?
 
 
Seth
09:40 / 24.09.06
I just saw this last night. I don't really want to spoil much about it s it's best to go in as unprepared as possible, but please, whatever you do, don't wait for it on DVD. In terms of technical achievement alone this is one of the greatest cinema experiences I've had and it really needs as big a screen as possible. Imagine that the Spielberg who constructed Minority Report, Saving Private Ryan and War of the Worlds suddenly decided that he needed to raise his game considerably and you'll be in roughly the right ballpark, but still unprepared for three of the finest seeming single-take shots I've ever encountered.
 
 
sleazenation
11:38 / 24.09.06
That Pale Chick - have you seen, or better still, read, The Handmaid's Tale (by Margaret Atwood) - it covers pretty similar territory, a postapocalyptic world with declining birthrates and would like to see if you felt that it was "anti-feminine" too. In fact, I think I'd just like you to unpack what you mean by "anti-feminine".

I haven't seen this film yet, but I want to - Julianne Moore is a fantastic actor, as is Clive Owen and Alfonso Cuaron has a good track record. I'm looking forward to seeing post apocalyptic London and even post-apocalyptic Bexhill-on-Sea...
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
16:39 / 24.09.06
Saw this on Friday and found it very powerful. It is an utterly compelling thriller, but so much more. The imagery and social/political issues central to a world two decades on are frighteningly familiar. One of those 'how far from reality is this' sensations. Like D-N I don't want to say too much and will probably come back to the thread when the film has been a little more widely viewed.

The scenes of 'combat' strike me as starkly real, though, obviously only as real as they could seem to someone who hasn't been in a war. I'd be really interested to know what someone who had been in a modern combat situation, Iraq, say, thought about them.

Technically accomplished, fabulous performances, compelling narrative and some genuinely confronting and moving moments. I had a couple of hmmms, but honestly, it feels churlish to even mention them.

Please go see it, it's really good.

TPC - I think your concerns are unfounded. First, the film focuses very much on the impact of and reaction to the infertility crisis. I'm thinking back and I don't recall any implication of blame, although some of the social consequences victimise sections of society - not exclusively women by any means. In fact, the film looks at the impact on society, men and women, of childlessness. This is not portrayed or treated as a 'women's problem', it is everyone's problem. The impact of lost children is shown to be equally devestating for men and women, both as individuals and as part of communities. I could go on, but honestly, I'd just recommend that you see it. I'd also suggest being cautious of linking issues of female biology with femininity, although I accept that I may be reading the word in a different way to which you intended it.
 
 
petunia
17:53 / 24.09.06
Amazed.

All the points above say it, really. Brutally 'real' at times. A true feeling of the humanity (warped or otherwise) behind all the events in the film. See it.

As for TPC's concerns, i found that the choice of women as infertile was more than likely made for cinematic reasons than anything else. The imagery of pregnancy and newborn children is highly effective as signifier and emotional affector. If it were the men who were infertile, we couldn't really have an effective visual representation of fertility, unless we were to have a pregnant women. A vial of sperm isn't quite so poetic as a woman holding her grown belly...

Admittedly, we could have both - the fertile man and the pregnant lady on their quest towards the Human Project, but this adds bulk and cast to what is a very trimmed down and fast storyline; the added 'clutter' would (it seems to me) spoil the aesthetic of the film.

Another factor is the fragility of the situation. A woman who is into the latter part of her pregnancy is in a pretty fragile situation. This adds to the tense air of the whole film (will she have a bad fall and a misscarriage?) and works well with the whole metaphor of human hope and faith trying to carry on in a brutal world. I doubt this metaphor could have been made if the fertile 'saviour' were a man or a woman who wasn't pregnant.

But damn. One hell of a film.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:14 / 25.09.06
TPC, I certainly think you should see this film before you comment on it, I've been reading this thread because I was looking forward to seeing the film and your comments suprised me. I went to see it today and I did think about your concerns, but like Tabitha I think they are unfounded.

Regarding the title, it's probably from the Bible, Psalm 21, verse 10: Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men. That's what I would suggest as the reason for the name of the book. I think PD James' history is helpful in understanding the motivations behind the book, here's the wikipedia link. It's worth remembering that she is an Anglican and a conservative, and the book is fairly moralistic.

In terms of the film itself I think it dwelled very little on things you might be deeming 'feminist issues'; I think it's worth mentioning that the leader of the Fish was a woman, for example. There is no distinct reason given for the infertility of women in the film - although there are suggestions like genetic modification and disease. It's certainly never suggested that infertility is the 'fault' of the women.

I did think the film was stunning - visually, in it's depiction of this infertile dystopia, and also it's narrative. But I didn't care a great deal about Theo and Kee as characters, I didn't feel like I got to know them properly really, especially Kee. I felt detached from them; I cared enough to will them to their goal but not as much as I cared about Jasper and his story.

I loved Jasper and his wife, I loved their house and the little removable laurels and I would have like there to be more political discussion scenes with Jasper and Theo.

I think that the film was frighteningly portentous in some ways and really quite horrifying. The Bexhill camp entry scenes made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. It was quite beautiful in its depiction of squalor though. It's funny how London keeps on featuring in these apocalyptic films - V for Vendetta, 28 Days Later, perhaps we have a good visual background for the required oppressive atmosphere?

I can only hope that all the people who whinge about "illegal immigrants, coming over here, stealing our jobs" go and see this. Perhaps they'll change their viewpoint when faced with a society follwing those beliefs to the extreme.

One thing; I do wish that I had not seen the trailer beforehand, I'd have liked to have been suprised by Kee's revelation. Instead through the beginning of the film I was waiting for her to appear.

Offtopic: Tabitha, I'm interested in your distinct separation regarding issues of female biology and feminism. I would say that far from being separate they are inextricably linked in many ways.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
18:23 / 25.09.06
Very quick offtopica response as I'm supposed to be working on something!
Lula - I was making a distinction between 'feminine' and 'female' rather than 'feminist' and 'female'. I'm very leery of femininity as a construct which has often seemed oppresive to me as a woman. I feel that feminine and feminist are distinctly different terms. In short, a female need not necessarily be 'feminine' but should bloody well be a feminist. IMO, obviously (and with mildly humourous stridency intended).

I agree completely on the lack of engagement with Kee, although with Theo there were moments when we were seeing him through the emotions and experiences of others (Julianne Moore's reactions to him and retelling of his activist past and Michael Caine's recounting of the loss of his child, I'm thinking of) that seemed to bring him a little closer. I'm not sure whether Kee's performance was not particularly strong, or whether we were not encouraged enough to empathise with her. One of my hmms was about the very childlike nature of her character.

I'll be back to this thread when the burden of evening work has been lifted...
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
20:38 / 25.09.06
I actually started to cry whilst watching this. I haven't cried over a film since I watched Blues Brothers as a child. It was simply amazing. Everything about it was amazing. The look of the future, the writting, the acting. London was possibly the most realised future I've seen presented on film. Clive Owen, who usually grates on me excelled, gave a fine performance. The image of him breakingdown in the woods will stay with me for a long time. Good I'm gushing. Umm, breathtaking. Shocking. I'm still shaken.

This film was everyhting that V for Vendetta wanted to be, but never was.

Also - how refreshing to see a film where the audience is treated like an idiot. The writing set up mirade little ideas, such as the event that occured in New York, and didn't feel the need to tell us what they were.

Michael Caine is a god. the bexhill entrance was horroficly topical and wonderfully realised. What else. Dunno. Everyone needs to see this - and to think my mother dismissed it as "too depressing".
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
20:45 / 25.09.06
With regards to Kee; While the story centred around her, I felt she was little more than a mcguffin. To me, the story was less about her as it was about depicting a world, and a man, completely bereft of hope. I don't know if it was whether we were not encouraged to sympathise with her, as I don't think it's a case of sympathsing or not; as she wasn't the central character, Theo's story was always going to be the main source of interreaction for the audience. But this didn't stop me from enjoying the film, but it does stike me as a little odd.
 
 
invisible_al
20:00 / 26.09.06
Saw this last night and was blown away by it, I've seen it described elsewhere as Curazon 'getting in touch with his inner Kubrick' and yeah it is as good as that sounds.

And I know precisely what Dix-Neuf means about some of those single take shots, some of the filming was masterful (I'm guessing we're talking about inside the tower block in Bexhill and The country road scene with them reversing, but what's the third one?). I almost cried during that tower block long shot, absolutely beautiful including how that shot ended.

Did anyone notice the fact the Theo never carried a gun throughout the film? I don't think he even picked one up. A pleasant change from what a standard action film would have done. I also liked what Curazon did with Theo's shoes to sabotage any classic hero images, the films full of cool little touches like that. I'm going to have a get a DVD with a commentary to catch all of them. I like that there were some things that just weren't explained, FISHes for example and things that you only caught a glimpse of on newspapers stuck to walls.

And despite watching the trailer (go and watch the film cold, it's worth it) I was wound as tight as a spring most of this film. It's amazing how Curazon provides you with a setup and then strips it all away and not being afraid to mess with you along the way. Some of those images in it are like a club to the back of the head.

And yes Kee was a mcguffin but she did great things with what she had and was utterly convinving throughout. And Clive Owen, occasionally described as 'teak like' but not here, he was brilliant, I liked the fact you only saw him get emotional when he was away from people, in the woods, listening to Jasper talk about 'Chance' and when he comes in on Jasper.

Micheal Caine, what a marvellous turn that was as Jasper, made you really care about him and his little oasis in the forest with his wife. And despite Chiwetel Ejiofor being great I would like to see him in some roles that don't have him as 'intense beliver' (should probably get out Kinky Boots). And Peter Mullan as Syd 'Show me your Fugee face' damm was he in fine form, he should get a lot more work on the big screen.

Damm it's hard to froth about this film without giving too much away, excellent film.
 
 
Seth
04:06 / 27.09.06
The third was the jump-start escape from the safe house.
 
 
The Strobe
21:51 / 27.09.06
Add to that a fourth: the pre-credits sequence, which is pretty impressive - from that tight interior to the vfx-heavy vision of London to the - well, you know.

I'm quite tired having only just got in from this, but want to discuss it more, because there's a lot in there, it's very fine, and it deserves discussion. I also want to talk more about the tiny details (the beat-up London 2012 t-shirt, etc), because there's a ton of them, and I think they help round this film out.

Seriously, though: the cinematographer deserves an Oscar.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
11:15 / 28.09.06
Am gonna see this again in about an hour. Am very excited.
 
 
Future Perfect
12:06 / 28.09.06
Completely agree, Paleface, all the little detail in the periphery really helped the film establish its time and place I felt. I found those little touches really diverting for the first half of the movie before things really got pacy.

Especially liked the video instead of photographs on the Evening Standard, Theo's cousin's assitant's finger-keyboard-thing, the look and feel of the computers in Theo's office, Caf Fine, the 2012 hoodies like you say and do we have super-long filtered cigarettes again? When did they have their last cinematic outing?
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
13:16 / 28.09.06
fifth element?
 
 
GogMickGog
09:59 / 29.09.06
What can I say?

Acting was superb and cinematography was stunning (how much did the ambush sequence have you IN the car?).

My only problem was I couldn't work out what was being said. There were parallels and references to now (check out the Abu-Graib style prisoner in a hood when they arrive at Bexhill) bu unlike, say 28 days later the worldwide affliction had no clear metaphorical subtext...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:31 / 29.09.06
I agree, fantastic production design and cinematography. I can't even remember when that Bexhill battle scene first cut ~ was it to a reaction shot of the people in the hallway gazing at the baby? ~ but the action choreography was unbelievably tight. Interesting too that they left the blood-drops on the lens, drawing attention to the filming for the latter half of that sequence and so changing the nature of the "realism" slightly ~ it felt then like a news report, not a transparent window onto the world, and I became a lot more aware of the camera operator as another actor (having to duck and run energetically, and know his or her precise cues).

The details of London were great ~ perhaps the most richly realised future world I can think of since Blade Runner? ~ and I was looking at the backgrounds, not the main characters, for most of the first hour. However, there was a lot of repeat material. The hut where Theo first meets Julian was plastered with maybe 10 different newspapers, and reverse shots had the same papers on different windows ~ fair enough in a way, but it did show limits to the set design. Also, among headlines from (I think) New Generation newspaper demanding that Charles be "throne" out, there was one about the Beckhams' golden wedding ~ which would surely be in 2049, not 2027. There are also no advertisements for anything but Quietus and government campaigns, which again is plausible (capitalism is clearly on its last legs) but made the commercials in the background a little samey.

Other interesting details ~ BCC news (standing for what?), the Guernica grafitti in the rowing boat tunnel near the end, the music (unfamiliar covers of familiar songs?) and Theo's shirts with two buttons close together, then a gap, then two more buttons.

Michael Caine's role seemed very similar to Edward G Robinson in Soylent Green, and I wonder if that was at all deliberate.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:36 / 29.09.06
I tell a lie, there was a GAP advert (for an "Eskimo" range of winter clothes?) on the side of the bus passing just as the cafe bomb goes off. I'm certainly going to be going over these early scenes very closely on DVD looking at the construction of 2027.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:16 / 29.09.06
Here's the best set of images I can get, from a high resolution version of the trailer. Quite interesting to examine.



Particularly noteworthy:

1. "Armageddon Begins: Russia Detonates Nuclear Bomb: Kazakhstan Annihilated."

"The Unforgettable Bobby Moore" / "FA Cup Cancelled". I don't understand this reference as Bobby Moore died in 1993.

"Scandal: Plastic Surgeon".

"A Right Royal Rip-Off: Charles Should Be Throne Out." Repeated in two different fonts on two different newspapers, which I think has to be just a continuity error and/or lazy set dressing.

"Crisis In Refugee Camps".

"...and ran out. It smelt of panic."

"Fertility Drug Kills."

"Violent Reaction"

"Nairobi: City of the Damned"

"Test Tube Daisy Dies"


2. "Exclusive: Beckhams Golden Wedding Anniversary"

"Immigrants Protest Against Government Racist Policies"

"Age Doesn't Matter" (both repeated twice)

Bobby Moore headline repeated in the background

3. "Africa Devastated By Nuclear Fallout: Millions of People Die In Seconds"

"Generation" masthead

"Property Seized..."

Headline about Mallorca, with image of gravestones

4. "Quater News: Government Forced To Admit Britain Is Unable to Cope With More Zed Violance [sic]"

"Two Soldiers Killed In Iraq"

"...ID Cards"

"... is getting better, doctors admit"

"The IPOD Generation" [these last seem quite out of place]
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:36 / 29.09.06


1. Caf fine: the drinks available would be familiar from 2006 (americano, cafe mocha, cappucino)

BCC logo

The scrolling ticker at the bottom gives the same news next day, in Theo's flat ~ about the extinct goose.

2. Knickerbox and Tie Rack are still (implausibly?) running in 2027. (To the left of them is WH Smiths, also with a 2006 logo).

The digital billboard above them scrolls "A Special Day", presumably over images of Diego. The corner announcement seems to read "Suspicious Activity is a Crime Please Report". Above that is a "TO LET", "AVAILABLE" sign advertising property.

The digital white on green translucent sign seems to read "Be Prepared To Stop".

A military helicopter in the sky. More rickshaws, quite possibly more pollution (the sky, the face-masks). Car design is subtly evolved.

3. The back of the rickshaw carries a government poster, "Report It". A Halifax, with the 2006 logo. Four Union Flags hang from buildings, echoing the flag iconography on the BCC screen ~ fitting with a more xenophobic 2027 mentality.

The police helmets seem to have ear-guards, and heavier-duty chinstraps than the 2006 model.

Another "Be Prepared to Stop" scrolling digital sign above the pavement. St Paul's in the background.

4. The bus has what looks like a GAP advert for "spring collection", with an animated puppy.

The scrolling ticker now reads "Help Britain Help..."

The torn poster reads "Kazak..."
 
 
Olulabelle
22:03 / 29.09.06
The blood on the lens technique appears in quite a lot of video games, so it's not a new technique. There is an arcade game (I forget which) whereby you know you've been hit when the blood appears on the screnn.

I actually found it a bit jolting; prior to that I was completely immersed in the action and then suddenly I felt pulled out, instantly aware again of my role as viewer. Perhaps that was what was intended.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:17 / 30.09.06
I thought Jasper's drawings could have been by Steve Bell (we see one quite clearly ~ I think it's of doves of peace being shot down ~ when we enter the house and the camera gives us a whole backstory by dwelling on newspaper reports and photographs). It certainly looks like a Bell version of Blair, probably also Bush, in the background. Though, of course, Jasper could just have an old drawing on his wall.

 
 
A Bigger Boat
07:39 / 30.09.06
I thought it was storks carrying babies being shot down.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:02 / 30.09.06
Oh yeah, quite probably!
 
 
raggedman
21:00 / 30.09.06
end trailer credits say twas Bell
sat through them all as my partner was too upset by whole thing to move or talk

for her it supercondensed all the news that she has to ignore to make it through the day without going suicidemental

speaking of the signs has anyone mentioned the 'Homeland Security' sign...it was above some kind of turnstile (tube station)
my heart gave a special cheer-sometimes you need to ram things home
 
 
Ganesh
22:17 / 30.09.06
'Homeland Security' was also on the side of a vehicle, possibly one of the buses transporting people to Bexhill.

Saw it today, and still hugely affected by it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:51 / 01.10.06
Remember, Battersea Power Station, star of both this film and the recent Cybermen Doctor Who episodes, is open to the public on Thurs-Sunday from the 8th October
 
 
sleazenation
14:14 / 01.10.06
Fantastic film, very well made.

Lots I want to say but to go into some of the details would run the risk of spoilerage.

Lots of lovely details - Battersey Power Station complete with Pink Floyd pig - although it was a little weird to see that they used the Turbine Hall from the Tate Modern to act as the interior - they were both power stations after all...
 
 
The Strobe
20:35 / 01.10.06
Lula - I don't think it's intended like that. The effect you describe is usually intended to represent that the person whose eyes we are seeing through has been "hit". In the Bexhill sequence, it's clearly somebody standing near the camera - the camera isn't a character in the film.

What I find affecting about that is that I really have no idea whose blood it is. That's the shocking thing; you can't identify where it came from, it's just detritus, like the mud and mortar flying around.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:55 / 01.10.06
Yes sorry, I just meant the technique was used.

Do you think it might be worth changing the title of this thread to include spoilers or to point out that it will include plot and character discussion? I think a good few people have seen it now and it looks like we could be having an interesting discussion. I'd really like to hear what people have to say without them worrying about spoilers.

I think I will put in a request.
 
 
The Strobe
22:01 / 01.10.06
Yeah, I think that's a good idea - it's been a week since release at least. Though bear in mind it doesn't open in the US until December - not that that's been a problem before in this parts.
 
 
Olulabelle
23:20 / 01.10.06
Well for once it works the other way!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:27 / 02.10.06
the camera isn't a character in the film.

Though it could be suggested that the camera becomes a character for the latter section of that sequence ~ that the blood on the lens makes us aware of the camera (and the camera operator as another performer in this location, as I noted) and perhaps makes "us" more a part of the battle.
 
 
captain piss
20:20 / 02.10.06
The realism and plausibility of this seems film incredible – I saw it on Saturday night and, like others have said, felt it had really gotten under my skin. It’s very exciting and my heart was absolutely pounding throughout loads of it. But it’s like a vivid nightmare that leaves a really awful kind of after-image after you’ve woken up

A shiver even ran down my spine today when my train stopped at Bexhill. Aaaagh
 
 
sleazenation
21:15 / 02.10.06
One thing that did amuse me - during one scene with bullets flying Theo attempts to huddle for cover in a corner with some fugees - they make noises of complaint of the kind you might expect on a crowded tube train, which prompts Theo to instinctively pull back and search for somewhere else to hide from the bullets while mumbling 'I'm sorry'.

It just rang true for me...
 
  

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