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Extinct clothing

 
  

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33
21:36 / 12.07.06
1) Black denim jacket

- So far I can find no quality non used ones at all which is annoying considering i had one that got stolen last year

2) Sleevless shirts that do not have lines , annoying logos and come in indigo, violet or any other similiar colour

- Again I can not find any plain sleevless shirts that resemble these colours anywhere though admittedly I am not exactly schooled in the latest desinger ware or frankly care for it.

Note - This is based on my random searches online and occassionaly foray into local and non local clothing stores here in Scotland.

arrr

33
 
 
Olulabelle
08:06 / 13.07.06
Have you tried charity shops, 33? I see a lot of plain shirts and black denim jackets around here. Failing that, try somewhere really obvious, like Matalan.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
16:40 / 15.07.06
33, have you tried looking in your local retro-type boutiques? Mainstays usually include classic denim, black and blue.


There's loads of garments I can't hold of, but mainly because of lack of money. i.e. the only place to find them is online and I don't even have a bank account.

e.g.

1) The old 80's Powell Peralta T-shits. I love the graphic design of virtually all the skate-T-shirts from that era, and had a few myself at the time. I still wince whenever I remember how a few years ago I found my long-lost, red, Mike McGill Skull T-shirt, and then lent it to a friend who ripped the neck because it was "too tight"!

2) This skull mask. I need this mask for a reason I can't go into (which probably isn't as interesting as that might sound), but you can only buy them in the US and they cost a bomb. Ho-hum.

(BTW, although I likes them, I don't have a skull fetish - in case you were wondering).
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
16:41 / 15.07.06
Sorry, 33, didn't see that you'd typed "non used" ones. Ignore me.
 
 
33
16:53 / 15.07.06
thanks for your suggestions..

I would not be adverse to wearing 2nd hand if it was in good condition , what i dont like about it though is the energy you pick from the previous owner .. so it would need some purging

Looked in Matalan but saw nothing .. it seems the homosexuals who are responsible for those stupid mock mochian hairstyle hip hugging trousers - for guys
and that disgusting dirty stone wash look that look like rust mixed with urine have a monoply on everything here.

I feel more and more like an endangered species every day..

help..

33
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
17:04 / 15.07.06
... it seems the homosexuals who are responsible for those stupid mock mochian hairstyle hip hugging trousers ... [etc]

Please, take that back, or explain what you meant. As it stands, it's homophobic and therefore offensive. Maybe I'm reading you wrong; I hope I am. But PLEASE clarify, or something...
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
17:07 / 15.07.06
And keep in mind that prejudice ain't welcome on Barbelith, so you're likely to get more flack around these parts if you say something along the lines of "I was only joking".
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
17:59 / 15.07.06
(Back on topic and sorry for the triple post)

There's the odd item of clothing worn in films which I'd love to own. The best example of this is my dream jacket of all time: the red jacket River Phoenix wore in 'My Private Idaho'. Dog knows how I'd find a jacket like that though...
 
 
Liger Null
22:51 / 15.07.06
I can no longer find a good, comfortable pair of Mary Janes. The ones I keep finding have that weird, duck-beaked shape that pinches my toes.
 
 
33
23:04 / 15.07.06
I am not homophobic at all
but regardless of what i said now would it make any difference ?

I used it a reference point not an insult because of the high proportion of folk oR desingers who are inclined that way and the fact the clothes that are popular are very feminine .

Maybe thats my percpetion but I sure as hell dont think white shirts turned up at collar and watered down mochians instill the male archetype very well.

Its an opinion i have and i admit its strong one regarding how folk regardless of orientation are infulenced or rather given no option of choice thanks to the folk who are steering the rudder .

I say this because denim jacket is common item of clothing ( cowboys or wear it ) that conjures certain popular images that most do not associate with those that way inclined.

But now there is almost a stigma it seems if you wear one or indeed dont want the a- typical look .

No one is buying that stuff so it doesnt sell.. why ?

I am not arguing about their sexual orintation but I am saying i find it ironic how their fads have ultimately brainwashed ( not that thats too hard ) culture here into becoming what they ultimately resented at some point.

Besides i thought this was discussion forum , and I am not insulting any one , if you find what i say insulting i suggest you look again at your own perceptions .

As it stand i compliment those that way inclined for turning the tables on the herd its just a damm pity there wasnt enough folk concious of this to allow for one to buy things that at one time were common..

arrr

grant
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:39 / 15.07.06
33, I'm not saying YOU are homophobic, but what you are saying definitely is.

e.g. ... I used it a reference point not an insult because of the high proportion of folk oR desingers who are inclined that way and the fact the clothes that are popular are very feminine ...

... I am not arguing about their sexual orintation but I am saying i find it ironic how their fads have ultimately brainwashed ( not that thats too hard ) culture here into becoming what they ultimately resented at some point ...

My first question is, who are "they"? I mean, doesn't that sound a bit "them & us" to you? And secondly, how could you know what sexual orientation most male clothing designers are? Do you have statistics to back that up? I personally know three male menswear designers and THEY are all heteresexual. I also know several women who are menswear designers.

Now don't get your back up. I'm trying to do you a favour, honestly. And as people join this thread and ask you to support what you've said with evidence, please, don't feel backed into a corner. It's not YOU, it's what YOU are SAYING. Remember, you can back down any time you want to, and the likelihood is that it will be appreciated and you won't look stupid or a week debater or whatever...

Seriously, the best thing you can do is apologise and take a longer look at your assumptions. (I'm talking from personal experience)
 
 
33
00:19 / 16.07.06
i am not here to compete or debate, if someone wants to be feel offended they will feel offended whether i accuse homosexual or hetrosexual being bad at driving or martial arts.

When it get to the point that i cant even use certain words i.e. them or they without fear of persecuting them or labelling them then its just ridiculous and only highlights even more the fact they are only given reason to be classified as " different "

And I used the word perception to emphasise that.

Its subjective to me , I just wanted to know if I was alone
in my thinking without being condemed for suggesting a word that they collectively points out something

There is gay / homosexual , culture ,clubs ?

I am complimenting them on what i see and yet you still claim I am offending them for pointing out something obvious..

I dont see why I should apologise if I dont mean it , i dont make exceptions to any one regardless of whether their black , asian , scottish , whatever
it makes no difference , dont think because i use the word homosexual that it makes you important or flatters your ego , I dont give shit what your ego thinks.

maybe i should say uk homosexuals so the rest of the world doesnt feel so hurt ?

The evidence will be in your responses , if you ban then i can assume that that phobias and parnoias are with you not me..


33
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
00:27 / 16.07.06
OK, I don't want to get into a row with you; I just wanted to point out that what you say offends me and a lot of people I care about.

If you don't think your assumptions are offensive and don't contribute to negative stereotyping, that's your call.

I'm going to go now and let other members respond to what you've typed.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:32 / 16.07.06
33 - as a matter of curiosity, is English your first language?
 
 
*
00:50 / 16.07.06
33, when I read your comment, I didn't think you intended it as an insult. But it just makes assumptions about people which, while seemingly reflexive to you— that is, "it's common knowledge that clothing designers are mostly homosexuals, and it's common knowledge that homosexuals are mostly effeminate"— are stereotypes. It also implies that homosexuals are somehow controlling things and inconveniencing you because of this— I assure you that this is not true. You've picked up on beliefs which are indoctrinated into people by homophobic society. That's not your fault, but the first step toward making society not homophobic anymore is for all of us who have those beliefs to critically examine them, and wherever they are not true, throw them out.

This is just a friendly heads-up that many of us on barbelith, when we see people repeating beliefs which are indoctrinated by homophobia or other -isms, challenge those beliefs, and ask the person who stated them to rise above them. If you cannot or don't want to do that, many people will get frustrated with you, and some of the things they say will be unkind. If you respond by attacking others or persisting in homophobic comments, precedent shows that you may be banned. You might have a look through policy to better understand how and why people have gotten banned in the past.

People who are good people and who mean no harm can say things which are homophobic, racist, misogynist, etc. Their mistakes can make others upset. If the person who said the comment in question apologizes or otherwise reconsiders, usually things are fine. If they persist, often they either leave the boards on their own or they are banned. This is sort of how things happen around here. I hope that you find a way to have fun on the boards which doesn't jeopardize your privilege to be here.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:04 / 16.07.06
Scottish is hir first language!

Dinnae youse try on ony uv them they big words on um, neither, eh, big man - 33's''ll fuckin' likely soil his kilt, if you do.
 
 
33
01:17 / 16.07.06
Oh i see excuse me,

So while its ok to call me homophobic and accuse me of something you have no evidence of other than one post on forum , its not okay to call other types certain things even though as you said its urban truth.

I think more to the point is your own inability to handle the fact I am not homophobic or influenced by culture , just the very fact you have said that is something I could find very insulting to me .

But I like to anaylse what people have to say if they think i am at fault , the trouble is I am not going to agree with you if it feels otherwise.

Then again I could agree and say yes I am indeed most sorry and feel disgusted at myself but now your own judgements have been made on me - i.e. homophobic and labelled so you can reason this I 'm sure it wont make much difference.

try again

33
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:25 / 16.07.06
33 I think you are mistaking our problem with your posts. It's not with the wording, it's with your perception of homosexuality as something that specifically relates to those stupid mock mochian hairstyle hip hugging trousers - for guys. Believe it or not you can't actually judge a person's sexuality on the type of trousers they wear. You're generalising clothes as if there's an absolute link. You know David Bowie, well he's married to a woman, a model called Iman actually and he wears tight trousers and heeled shoes frequently. Perhaps you would like to broaden your view on masculinity a little?

I used it a reference point

An inaccurate one and I suggest that you address that issue now.

I am not arguing about their sexual orintation but I am saying i find it ironic how their fads have ultimately brainwashed ( not that thats too hard ) culture here

Perhaps you would like to elaborate who exactly "they" are? Do you mean homosexual designers, gay culture? I'm quite unclear on this.

It seems more than paranoid, actually rather discriminatory to indicate that homosexuals have brainwashed straight culture. In fact I would suggest that straight culture, rather dominant generally, has co-opted elements of homosexual culture and that this started in the 1980's with a push towards a different kind of masculinity. However that point is highly debatable because these elements can also be taken as an answer from the male community to feminism. While certain wings of feminism co-opted masculinity, GQ (the first male fashion magazine) pushed for male femininity and the concept of the new male in British culture.

Besides i thought this was discussion forum , and I am not insulting any one , if you find what i say insulting i suggest you look again at your own perceptions .

This is a discussion forum but we don't have space for people to randomly insult groups while asserting comments that frankly show a basic misunderstanding of the cyclical nature of the fashion industry. I suggest you start looking into the way that fashion currently works on a high turnover, catwalk led basis before accusing homosexuals of influencing it. For instance many women design catwalk clothes that high street shops copy and probable colours, which lead to materials being purchased, are forecasted years ahead. There is no one person in control and no cultural groups are answerable to the types of clothes that you can find in shops.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:35 / 16.07.06
More importantly, what's an urban truth? Is it the opposite of an urban myth?

33 - again, is English your first language?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:35 / 16.07.06
'Try again' at what, though?

To bring you down as a thinker? To belittle your ideas?

This borderline demented line of argument represents, I gather, something like your tenth post on Barbelith.

Why are you so angry about the homosexuals? What have they ever done to you?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:38 / 16.07.06
Granny, I think he's already told us what he thinks homosexuals have done- they've removed his right to dress like a man. The question is why he believes that they have done that when it's... well, actually I think that's not simply implausible but impossible within the actual structure of the industry.
 
 
*
03:36 / 16.07.06
33, could you do me a favor and reread my post carefully, starting from the assumption that none of it is attacking you in any way? Thanks. I would really appreciate that.
 
 
33
04:44 / 16.07.06
I dont know you keep give me reasons for not being offended again - not that i blame you - your are basing that own your own frame of reference .

I am not offended by anything you say , I made an assumption
which has been challanged by something said that has encouraged straight males to identify with an image that to me personally and others i know feels very unmanly not homosexual just not masculine.

The fact I said it was related to homosexuals was based on the idea they are in majority desginging clothes and theirs is way more accepted - even cool .

Why they think that I dont know , why a lot of the blokes I notice like that act dress in way that seems feminine or ashamed to be male and all it entails i dont know..
Maybe women stealing their role has confused them .

My apologies to those in the homosexual community you have lot of talented folk and i dont mind at all what you bring to the table.

33
 
 
33
05:43 / 16.07.06
The one thing I will say though that I do not like with all I can loosely dub as "groups" / cultures is self pity or this sense of being victimised.

This is a common theme everywhere but it is highlighted in particulair by those groups who get insulted if you use certain words or feel isolated , denied something they feel they deserve.

Fact is no one owes you shit in this life , no one..

You say its not possible not to feel victimised then turn your attention to the Native Indian who have probably had worse than any other culture on this earth - so bad you'll be lucky to even see a genuine one that hasnt been assimilaited by white or black man and earased.

I dont hear any one fighitng their cause or them complaining about being raped of their land and put below jsut about every other race now there.

That to me is far far worse and yet they dont complain or feel victimised or get prissy and upset if they cant control someone.

And in the end thats what its about too - ego
Not your skin or your sexual orintation but your ego your no different and in fact worse than the majority of humanity because you use your differences as leverage as collective group.

Not all are like this but how often do we here the pity card played if and when things are not progessing as those groups would like , does it not occur to them that there is reason for this ?

Should I use my ill health as reason for making the comments I did , the fact I am angry at my lifes lot .. no because i have enough soberity to know ultimately i take all responsibilty... these were my choices and now i too like the Natives are on the bottom rung.

33
 
 
Ticker
06:19 / 16.07.06
Yo 33,

Why they think that I dont know , why a lot of the blokes I notice like that act dress in way that seems feminine or ashamed to be male and all it entails i dont know..
Maybe women stealing their role has confused them .


You've run smack into a problem with picking troublesome ways of describing things.

I suspect you and I can look at the same guy and you see feminine or ashamed to be male and I see a man who is defining his own personal image. Now we both might not think he is attractive (in the general looking at ads kind of way) so let me use this to say the problem here is not the guy's attractiveness or our sexual preferences at all.

My issue with your choice of words is this:

Maybe women stealing their role has confused them .

and

that seems feminine or ashamed


Strong assertive women are not stealing anything. Men who look receptive, gentle, and/or passive have nothing to be ashamed of.

Women regardless of sexual orientation can select any role they wish because it is a human role not a gendered role. Men may manifest their personalities without fear of being judged as flawed or weak.

Strong assertive women are not driving men into a weakened state nor are strong assertive men driving women into a weakened state. Rather bigoted small minded restrictive people are limiting their fellow human beings by creating artifical constructs of what is gender appropriate.

A man in woman's clothing has power unless you, not the clothes, deny it to him.
 
 
netbanshee
06:33 / 16.07.06
We've talked a bit outside of the board, so I'd like to reach out to you so that we might all find ourselves in a better position to move forward with the conversation. If you need more off-board discussion, please feel free to contact me. I'm not looking to interfere or compromise anyone else's position here since I think the questions and concerns that people here are raising are valid and need lip service.

I think that it's very important that you step back for a moment and consider the hard fought level of dialogue that we present and expect from our members. I'm certainly not the most articulate of the bunch but the conversation needs a different type of consideration on your end that needs to be met if you want to contribute to the board and offer things to us as well.

Speaking generally and using terms like "they, etc." to describe a cross-section of culture does not bode well since it's clear that it's unrealistic, rude, potentially discriminatory, and a bit lazy to lump people together in such a fashion. If you were to read many of the posts that people here have spent considerable time contributing to on topics such as race, gender, sexuality, politics and the like, it'll be clear to you that you either need to educate yourself further on such topics or to avoid such language until you are ready to engage the board sincerely on that level.

So all I'd like to say is this... please read, directly consider and answer the questions that have been proposed by our members and moderators in a q&a form if possible so that we can reach a mutual level of understanding and then proceed from that point. I guarantee that if you approach things in such a fashion and make amends, there's plenty of room to continue on from here...
 
 
33
10:23 / 16.07.06
But I am not political .

As I told you I dont care about politics at all .

It was not my intent to start a political debate yet I suppose the fact there is political section and all that entails might of given me some forewarning.

That said there is also a " Spiritual " section too and yet strangely enough or pehaps not i see they are no interested.

It is not that I am trying to be rude or offend any one i use these words everyday though I admit I am not in contact with "other cultures " to really gauge how using they would have an effect.

i suppose i can see why it might be considered rude when referring to " cultures " but it never dawned on me at all really ..

I see sub cultures like Goths use they so I suspect the issue lies elsewhere , i dont know how else to think about it..

It just does not seem offensive to me

What is it I am missing exactly that makes it different when talking about racial or sexual orintation that makes it worse than any other group to use words.

Again it boils to insecurity on some level to me , feeling of being the victim when every word is analysed as potential threat .

33
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:02 / 16.07.06
33 But I am not political .

As I told you I dont care about politics at all .


I hate to say, but your stated position on homosexuals controlling the fashion industry is a political statement. Politics is not just voting every four years on who you want to represent the area you live in a Parliament. Pretty much everything you do is political, even denying you are political. To a certain extent, politics is like mass.
 
 
33
11:05 / 16.07.06
They to me - means unit or force , comrades perhaps - or even the opposite

But it could also mean an objective group of things / people whatever ..

Aliens which is what dawned on me is where I sense the problems lies..

Even there though I dont understand why - because of my own beleifs - why people are getting their knickers in twist

Alien itself / different or not of this world doesnt sound too bad to me when you look at the state its in ..

But thats me I do not look at things in the sense of " seeing "

Words are not definites they are tools for exploration .

33
 
 
33
11:21 / 16.07.06

Is it political question though or something else ?

I did suggest they were in control - yes

But why that is , if its the case and why thats catering to and abolishing all other " looks / styles " I dont know ?

There is no balance you understand my friend , there is no choice or opition , that is not good

Goth culture is very strong in uk as far as I can tell and yet there is no clothing that caters for them other than independents , I could argue if those in fashion were catering to markets then why not there?

Does the answer lie in the fact Goth represent a side of culture along with Punk that those inclinced are trying to put down - almost genocide

You look at music today and you could argue the same with rnb , it has dominated the music scence along with uk garage over here..

The rockers and those who represent the more masculine / assertive non - passive are being smothered by indviduals who exmplify this feminie male - the james blunts / david beckams

need i say more..

33
 
 
33
11:34 / 16.07.06
You know that social factors etc play a part too i realise but that intself is based on other factors such as energy or lack of it ...

Suffice to say I realise I am already on landslide with most here perhaps in the parallels and conclusions I am coming to , to me you see it is not so much what is done but the lack of energy behind it.

You look eras , you look back to 80s to even 90s
so on distinctive in each way for certain things and then you look at this one ..

Each one had signficant fashion , music , movement - but this one , even my brother who is of this era admits
it sucks ..

Everything about it is clone-like no other time I can recall in living memory even without genetics you'll find if you take away all options it only leaves folk with one..

arrr

33
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:39 / 16.07.06
B-but James Blunt was in the army.

He could kill you with his bare hands, no doubt - no girly-man, he.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
12:03 / 16.07.06
33, please, take a step back and read other people's posts. For example, you still have not answered what I believe was a genuine question from Haus - is English your first language?

The way I see it, as you post more, you seem only to be making more and more generalisations based on... well, what exactly? Your gut?

e.g. You say its not possible not to feel victimised then turn your attention to the Native Indian who have probably had worse than any other culture on this earth - so bad you'll be lucky to even see a genuine one that hasnt been assimilaited by white or black man and earased.

I dont hear any one fighitng their cause or them complaining about being raped of their land and put below jsut about every other race now there.



Seriously mate, do you know ANY Native Americans, have you been to the US and tried to hear whether they are "complaining about being raped of their land"? Maybe the reason you don't hear them is because they are not on your TV screen or maybe you're not listening hard enough?

Also, if I may, I put it to you that you don't have any (e.g) gay friends and that you need therefore to take a step back and listen to what you yourself are saying about people and cultures that you seem to know nothing about. To me, this passage sums up your position:

It is not that I am trying to be rude or offend any one i use these words everyday though I admit I am not in contact with "other cultures " to really gauge how using they would have an effect.

i suppose I can see why it might be considered rude when referring to " cultures " but it never dawned on me at all really ..


Please, do yourself a favour and listen to these "other cultures" while you're in contact with them (i.e. on Barbelith). It will help you understand and avoid future conflict and pain.

I'm also sorry to hear you are ill, and I hope your condition improves in due course.

(Oh and Alex's Grandma, please, let's not fight prejudice with prejudice? Your attempt at writing in a Scottish dialect made me cringe.)
 
 
33
12:03 / 16.07.06
Strangely enough I did hear he was in the army..

But what difference does that make ?

Prince Harry is in the army too and he cant even grow a beard ..

It still doesnt change the fact they are as caught up in the same trip and need to be feminine most males are..
esp if its what the women want - aka david beckam

Army is just another group the requires your obedience to operate .

33
 
 
33
12:15 / 16.07.06
By the paranoid writer thank you for coming back and sharing your sentiments ..

I have been in the US quite a few times over the years and spent some months there , never once in media did I hear about the Native Amerincan plight even in their homeland .

My own interests in their culture stem from certain beliefs and traditions they use , and i am aware of how inspite of their hardships some of them are buying back the land through casinos they have built.

Those of Native American hertiage though that is tough call when just about most americans I have meet claim to have native american in them.

33
 
  

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