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BRICK OUTHOUSE: A Jack Reacher novel

 
  

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Thorn Davis
09:06 / 22.08.06
Yes, the oddball moments are quite funny. There was one moment where I almost laughed out loud, near the start of Echo Burning, something like

'The road was populated by low buildings with cars out front and chidren's toys around them.

"Houses," guessed Reacher.'
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:41 / 22.08.06
I guess I missed something upthread, but I am currently reading Without Fail, and I was just stunned to find Reacher actually use the phrase, 'brick outhouse'.
 
 
Jackie Susann
10:10 / 22.08.06
Very annoyed a few chapters later by Reacher's patently nonsensical references to Karl Marx. I want to believe Reacher has really read these philosophers and my disbelieve gets unsuspended when he attributes absurd nonexistent quotes to Das Kapital! (On the other hand, the Marx reference is exactly the kind of wtf moment I was just praising. Still bugs me.)
 
 
miss wonderstarr
10:15 / 22.08.06
If anyone can tell me who hired the 'watchers' whose activities open Echo Burning, and why I'd be very grateful.

It's a fair question because those characters are established early on, returned to a few times and then dropped ~ they were replaced by the "killing crew". I don't have the novel here and I've been through Killing Floor since, but I assume they were hired by Sloop's old buddy, the police chief (?) as part of a plan to kidnap Ellie, as leverage to get Carmen to kill Sloop. That I can't quite remember isn't a big vote for Child's plotting in that novel, I agree.

I think Thorn raises some good objections. I've found the big revenge climax quite disappointing in every Reacher novel so far ~ the last three chapters are always taken up with him finally taking out the bad guys, just as there's always a scene earlier on to whet the appetite and keep up the reader's lust for righteous, rough justice where Reacher takes out two (almost always) thugs with his bare hands or an improvised prop. The climax is usually on an overblown, action-movie scale somehow (attacked by tanks in The Enemy, burning a pile of a million dollar bills in Killing Floor, torching the red ranch in Echo Burning, taking out an office in the WTC in Tripwire, storming a peninsula mansion in Persuader, racing cross-country after the assassins in Without Fail) and it's always preceded by Reacher telling us grimly, despite the odds against him, that the perps are "dead as a man who's just stepped off a building... walking dead men." Unfortunately, as Reacher's such a superman, it's rare that we feel any risk or danger in these scenes ~ any possibility that he's not going to succeed. Tripwire and Persuader come closest because he gets badly wounded, but in the others it just feels like a done deal.

There is also a lot of superfluous, banal detail in the last two Reachers I read ~ Killing Floor and Echo Burning ~ just tedious information about how the town is laid out, how many kilometres it was from here to there, and how much faster he made the journey in this vehicle rather than that one, because of the fuel consumption and the height of the vehicle off the ground; what he thought about while he was waiting for hours, how he used the can and took a long shower, what kind of eggs he had in the evening and where exactly in the car he stored the bags of salted nuts and bottles of water. Stuff that contributes to Reacher's in some ways dully obsessive, careful character, but becomes a drag to read. In Killing Floor there's this dead pair of pages about the Coast Guard's operation and how the upcoming election is going to affect it, and you just know this is going to be a big plot point later because Child has basically typed out a whole newspaper story, but you're meant to forget it and think "oh yeah" when the story crops up again two hundred pages later.
 
 
Jackie Susann
20:47 / 24.08.06
As long as we have moved to criticism, I think the biggest problem with the books tends to be motivations - as in, having ones that are realistic. Reacher never does, but that's okay because he's this abberant force-of-nature. But two of the ones I've read are mysteries where you're trying to work out, not so much who did it (because they're not actually characters in the story, until the climax), but what kind of person - you (and Reacher) try and work out why they would be doing it that particular way, and figure out their identity that way. In both cases, the motivations have been psychotically unconvincing.

I think it happens because a) Childs wants the ending to be a surprise, and you would anticipate any plausible solution, and b) he doesn't understand human psychology very well.

Except what they want out of thrillers, of course!
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
22:37 / 24.08.06
just tedious information about how the town is laid out, how many kilometres it was from here to there, and how much faster he made the journey in this vehicle rather than that one, because of the fuel consumption and the height of the vehicle off the ground; what he thought about while he was waiting for hours, how he used the can and took a long shower, what kind of eggs he had in the evening and where exactly in the car he stored the bags of salted nuts and bottles of water. Stuff that contributes to Reacher's in some ways dully obsessive, careful character, but becomes a drag to read.

Hmmm, reminds me of something....





Er.....




James Joyce, Ulysses! Of course

Coincidence? Nope.

TEH LITERARY CONZP1RaXY!!11!1!
 
 
Jackie Susann
00:41 / 25.08.06
I didn't notice this before but

how he used the can

If there is an actual description of how Reacher goes to the can in one of these books please refer me to it ASAP!!!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
04:23 / 25.08.06
OK... that he used the can, not how.

Reacher never does, but that's okay because he's this abberant force-of-nature. But two of the ones I've read are mysteries where you're trying to work out, not so much who did it (because they're not actually characters in the story, until the climax), but what kind of person - you (and Reacher) try and work out why they would be doing it that particular way, and figure out their identity that way. In both cases, the motivations have been psychotically unconvincing.


With Hook Hobie and the Chelovek (is that his name? in One Shot) there are pages of "explanation", but I tend to agree, it basically comes down to the villain being a sadist ~ one who often likes to cut up women ~ in each book, and Child might as well have left it at that, as he does in Killing Floor and Persuader, where I believe we have a similarly nasty villain but without the psych background.

Reacher does have a motivation, though. Generally it's to keep moving and remain free, "off the grid", and in each novel there's a point where he gets "involved" ~ something that stops him from keeping moving on. That factor is invariably, I think, that he starts feeling he's battling for someone, an underdog or someone weak who's been abused or exploited. The parents of the vet, the local girl who was murdered, his brother Joe, his brother's ex-girlfriend, his boss's daughter, the accused man's sister, and so on.

I think negative criticism is a good way for us to examine these novels, too.
 
 
Jackie Susann
08:44 / 25.08.06
Oh, I didn't mean Reacher didn't have a motivation. Everyone in these books has a motivation. I just meant it is frequently not a motivation that would plausibly occur in any human being, ever.

For example - and there are SPOILERS here for WITHOUT FAIL - these guys concoct this super-complex, incredibly brutal rampage of a crime spree/assassination plot in order to get revenge against a guy who - who what? What could he have done to get them this angry? Oh, I see - thirty years ago he was there when his dad beat them up. Uh, what?

Reacher's motivation is, generally, in the same general ballground of ludicrousness (although I accept this is something between a convention and a requirement of the thriller genre).
 
 
miss wonderstarr
10:00 / 25.08.06
these guys concoct this super-complex, incredibly brutal rampage of a crime spree/assassination plot in order to get revenge against a guy who - who what? What could he have done to get them this angry? Oh, I see - thirty years ago he was there when his dad beat them up. Uh, what?

You're right, that's just insane ~ and it's also very disappointing, I think, when the climax involves Reacher just glancing at their drivers' ID, telling us they're just some generic guy, and leaving their corpses. The same, but worse, happens at the end of Echo Burning where we don't even discover the names of the three people in the "killing crew". 500 pages of hunting, and all we know is that they were totally-unremarkable professionals who were pretty good, but not as good as Reacher.

You could compare this to the decent novels of Thomas Harris (Red Dragon, Silence of the Lambs) where the villain is at least a fully-established character ~ perhaps Child was attempting this kind of development of the bad guy with Hook Hobie and the Chelovek.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:27 / 25.08.06
Just finished The Visitor... and yes, the ending may have been BEYOND STUPI, but what does it say about me that I'd guessed it fully two hundred and fifty pages before the end?

Not that that spoiled it, though- I was having too great a time finding out how it got there.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:27 / 25.08.06
I'm beginning to suspect that my diminishing enthusiasm for Reacher with each book is a combination of becoming used to Child's approach and technique, and learning Reacher's methods of detection and deduction.

Hence, in DIE TRYING so far, I've accurately predicted, a few pages before it was revealed, that the mystery woman was obviously wealthy and some kind of federal agent; that the workmen would obviously be shot by their employer; that there likely would be some business about Reacher and Holly Johnson (? does Child not remember Frankie Goes to Hollywood) having to go to the bathroom while chained in close proximity; that the second lot of workmen would obviously be shot by their employer (an easier guess); and that Holly was obviously someone's daughter.

So, maybe fandom and close reading of the novels actually works against your enjoyment of them en masse ~ as you become a kind of ex-military cop yourself, as a reader, there is a lot less in the stories to surprise you. I've been more surprised in this one so far by how ho-hum the minor "revelations" are.
 
 
Axolotl
17:19 / 25.08.06
Does that mean after reading the entire oeuvre you will become as Reacher is? Able to protect your principle, out-drive pursuers, deduce motivations, lay the smackdown on goons, even to stop bullets with your very face?
I'm heading straight to the bookshop.
Seriously though, with the discussion of Reacher as a "some ways dully obsessive, careful character" and that this "becomes a drag to read" I'm reminded of Andrew Vachss's Burke whose paranoia and obssessive secrecy and security really turned me off the books.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:36 / 25.08.06
I think the books might train me to have a brain like Reacher, yes. A body like Reacher, not so much. Maybe Child should include a Flex Mentallo-style fitness program to send off for though, at the end of each book.

By "someone's daughter" above I meant "the daughter of someone high up in US government"... my deduction was a bit more advanced than just figuring out that she must have had parents at some point.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:35 / 25.08.06
xoxoREACHER DRINKING GAMExoxo

Down a gallon of coffee when you read Lee Child's favorite phrases:

"dabbed the phone cradle" (ie. cut the connection to make a new call)

"jinked the car round the block" (ie... drove niftily round some corners, I think)

MORE TO COME PROBABLY
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:11 / 25.08.06
Two gallons every time Reacher makes an improbably literary analogy out of nowhere.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:23 / 25.08.06
This thread's getting a little too spoilery, given that quite a few of us are still only beginning our Reacher journey...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:26 / 26.08.06
I know... I'm sorry about that. If there are any spoilers in my posts to come, I will insert major warnings.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:21 / 26.08.06
Cheers! Just bought The Hard Way yesterday- like you, I really wasn't gonna go for a hardback (especially when I still have a godzillion of the Reacher paperbacks still to read) but they had it for nine quid in the supermarket while I was buying dog food (The dog, Reacher thought. He's trying to pin it on the dog. It's obvious).
 
 
Jackie Susann
14:21 / 26.08.06
Please tell me The Hard Way has Reacher teaming up with James Woods and Michael J Fox.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:54 / 26.08.06
I've only got one more novel to read (Die Trying) and then I have to save The Visitor for a long-haul flight in October, so I'm going to have to beg for no spoilers on the new one, and I'm rationing my Reacher from now on...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:12 / 29.08.06
As a result of this thread, I was given a charity shop copy of 'One Shot' as a present yesterday, so I don't feel too dirty. But on the other hand, I've just about finished it, and I was doing other things. Honestly I was.

Reacher seems a bit like The Littlest Hobo meets The Terminator in this. I suppose the knight errant version of the Incredible Hulk from the Seventies might be another reference - there's a similar sense of a big guy bouncing across the USA, involving himself in situations that don't especially concern him, but which he's nevertheless obliged to resolve.

Certainly, he's the kind of man's man you don't see too often these days in the movies, what with all those effete, short, fortysomething pretty boys cluttering the lots in Hollywood - I pictured Mickey Rourke and Dolph Lundgren at various points during the narrative (I know Rourke looks a little ... odd these days, but a touch of CGI could do wonders, possibly) but I couldn't really think of anyone else who could play the lead in the surely inevitable cinema franchise. Any thoughts?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:18 / 30.08.06
??



??
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:53 / 30.08.06
Ah yes.

Though he might want to swap the booze for black coffee. And dig a few swimming pools. With his bare hands. To prepare for the role.
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:03 / 30.08.06
I’ve read all of these up to One Shot, which is sitting on the shelf (‘Sturdy. Made of wood.’) and awaiting my eyes, and in all honesty I enjoy them – if you read them at the rate Child writes them (one a year), then the various repeated bits are less irritating.

Some bits of them really work for me – the lightning-lit house sequence in Killing Floor springs to mind – even if I find the main character a bit like Fleming’s Bond turned up to 11 sometimes.

Following on from the earlier comments about Reacher being Child’s on-page alter ego, I think it’s probably fair to note that just as Reacher left the army after downsizing, Child was made redundant from Granada TV after working from them for a long period of time.

Perhaps appropriately enough, I first came across reference to the series in the first issue of the now-gone (and frankly not very good) magazine ‘Jack’, wherein they were referred to as ‘the kind of books you lend to a friend and then a few days later they say they can’t return to you because they’ve lent them on to someone else, and so on…’ which I think is pretty fair, as I often suggest them as light relief reading to people, men and women alike, with positive reactions.

It rather feels as if this thread started a bit ironically and knowingly, but quite a few people are actually rather enjoying the books in spite of their expectations – is that a fair comment?
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
16:32 / 30.08.06
"I like salads," she said.
"Someone's got to, I guess."
"Don't you?"
"Get a chicken Caesar to start and a steak to follow. You eat the rabbit food, I'll eat the steak. Then get some kind of a big dessert. And a big pot of coffee."
"I like tea."
"Can't do it," Reacher said. "There are some compromises I just can't make. Not even for the DoD."
"But I'm thirsty."
"They'll send ice water. They always do."
"I outrank you."
"You always did. You ever see me drink tea because of it?"


Pure. Class.

Seriously, how can you not love writing like that? The Reacher novels, though variable in quality, and with really bad back-cover blurbs (though I suspect these are deliberately tongue in cheek) are excellent thriller fiction with an intriguing central character - what's not to like?

Get over your shame and wallow!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:38 / 30.08.06
It rather feels as if this thread started a bit ironically and knowingly, but quite a few people are actually rather enjoying the books in spite of their expectations

My first post was about enjoying the books in spite of my expectations, so I had already reached that stage, but other lucky travelers may have "gone on a journey" with Jack during the thread.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:46 / 31.08.06
I would ask if you had 'a gameplan,' VKMW. But I know you didn't. You were just moving from place to place. Sleeping in motels. Eating burgers. Drinking coffee. Minding Your own business. Leaving no traces. Not wearing socks or pants. And then you got caught up in this goddamn mess ...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:02 / 23.09.06
Unfortunately, as Reacher's such a superman, it's rare that we feel any risk or danger in these scenes

I just finished One Shot, and did indeed have this problem.

S


P


O


I


L


E


R


S


Taking out the Russians is just so very, very easy. When, having reached the house, Reacher confronts the only one who appears to pose any physical threat - also 6'5, also huge and muscular - and huggles him to death, you start to wonder just what the point is - Reacher could simply have had a cup of coffee (double espresso, foam cup) and somehow the universe would haved contrived to end the lives of all his enemies. In the trailer for the next book, Lee Child says that Reacher has never made a serious mistake - and that's just it. Who the Hell has never made a serious mistake? Reacher is infallible and indestructable, which means the denouement felt lightweight. The fact that his nemesis was an octogenarian with four fingers didn't help enormously, either.
 
 
Thorn Davis
07:27 / 25.09.06

I just finished that one, and thought the same thing. The villains ar supposedly pretty hardcore, but as ever Reacher just steamrollers them with a minimum of effort.

Also, I got pretty sick of Reacher's God-like ability to predict people's behaviour patterns. It's always "I figure a guy in this situation is going to behave like this because of this", and then he stakes everything on his elementary psychology and he's always right. I guess it's a way of covering over plotholes (as in stopping the reader going 'how the f**k did he know what hotel they were going to be in/ that he wouldn't go to the police/ that he wouldn't shoot etc etc'), but to be honest it's an absurdly reductive view of the universe. Although these trains of thought are usually quite logical, the truth is that people's interactions with the world can be dependent on things like whether or not you stubbed your toe in on the bedpost, had a rotten journey into work etc etc.

Actually, I'd quite like to read a scene where Reacher says something like "We can't trust him. I saw him hobbling when he moved behind his desk. Figure he mashed his toe getting up in the morning. Figure people get angry when they mash their toes. We talk to him now, he'll call the DA. Who's crooked. Usually."
 
 
The Falcon
10:54 / 26.09.06
I'm 2/3 of the way through Without Fail, and have Persuader(?) on the backburner for later - they were doing 3 for £10 at BookWorld and I reckon a serious contender for Reacher-on-film has to be, apart from Brock Samson:



I noticed early on Reacher met a couple who were, after reading a bit, obviously African-American yet this was elided from the text altogether. This kinda got me thinking; maybe Reacher's just the kinda guy who'd pay no mind to that, but then there's no racial description of anyone thus far (whether there ought to be is a legitimate question, but it seems most books of the type would definitely feature this - I'm hazarding,) so why need the Reacher family necessarily be white?

The Rock has the build and haircut, too, I think.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:25 / 26.09.06
Reacher does have "thinning blond hair" in DIE TRYING, which is the only mention I remember of his hair and, I would say by extension, his ethnicity (though he also gets a deep tan in TRIPWIRE). Actually, I think he also has blue eyes. His mother was a white Frenchwoman, I believe.

I finished DIE TRYING while in two hospitals, which I think coloured my response to it ~ the blithe descriptions of people being hit in the face then standing up smarting only at the indignity of it, and the grim, meaty relish with which Child/Reacher deals out skull-smashing punishment to wrongdoers, jarred a little with me and my own situation made the novel's milieu, personalities and physical laws seem even more silly and fantastical.

DIE TRYING is notable for a lengthy scene where Reacher is, unusually, in a panic and thinks he might die (he even screams, an exceptional moment of weakness) though he soon conquers his fear and the challenge is revisited as a euphoric triumph.

Also a valiant but often slightly ludicrous attempt to do "bullet time" in prose ~ when a gun is fired, Child goes into pages of meticulous description about exactly what happened in the first millisecond (the firing pin depressed, igniting the gas, sending the bullet rotating from the barrel at 1000 km p/h), how the prevailing breeze and gravity altered the projectile's arc, exactly how the other characters were moving in very, very slow motion during its transit, and exactly what impact it had on the antagonist's head (usually a "pink mist").

Finally, Child's coyness about sexuality starts to infect the whole fictional world ~ not only is a long and gruesomely detailed crucifiction and burial scene followed by a laughably brisk, probably 7-word account of how [I paraphrase] "they made love there, on the grass", but even the villains are remarkably gentlemanly. One scene of sexual threat culminates in the bad guy asking the heroine what she's wearing under her shirt ("Damn you," she hissed, finally whispering... "underwear") and in another, the female protagonist asks all the evil militia to turn their backs while she changes her top... which they happily comply with.

I only have one more to read before THE HARD WAY, and I think I've had my fill for the moment. Can't help but think that ONE SHOT may actually have been the best.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:14 / 26.09.06
Oh, The Hard Way's great, especially because he comes to England.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:12 / 07.10.06
Strangely enough, today's Sunday Times InGear supplement ("Cars, Gadgets, Adventure") has a column by, of all people, Johnny fucking Vaughan, in which he confesses his guilty pleasure in having all the Jack Reachers.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
14:39 / 09.10.06
I've just read my first Reacher. The Persuader. From the library. For free.

To answer the question on the first page of the thread the book is named after the utterly, shockingly, kickass shotgun that the villains are smuggling to terrorists and that Reacher uses against one of them to *cut him in half*. I imagine it being very like the seminal FPS shotgun in Doom (the game).
 
  

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