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Pirates of the Caribbean 2: Dead Man's Chest - Post Release Thread

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
14:55 / 11.07.06
Cheated? Really? It's been fairly heavily publicised that they've filmed the two sequels back-to-back, and whenever that happens, it pretty much always means "one story, cliffhanger break".
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:10 / 11.07.06
God, judging by the reactions of the people in the cinema I went to (not least myself and those I was with) nobody felt in the slightest bit cheated- it was all "holy fuck! I can't wait until the next one!"

I like the idea of one lengthy story split up- so far it looks like they haven't managed to lose the plot (like the Matrix movies did... literally- and it was fairly obvious that was happening from early on in the second movie), which is obviously the big danger.

And yes. I can't fucking wait.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:12 / 11.07.06
I hated the "end" of Matrix Reloaded (well I hated the whole film, but the "to be continued" at the end was the final straw, burning away all goodwill to the point that I still haven't seen Revolutions), I hated the end of Back to the Future 2, but the ending of PotC2 made me laugh out loud and applaud, and rather than pissing me off, and made me really look forward to seeing the next one.

I find myself agreeing with much of the negative critiques levelled at PotC2, but I had so much goddamn fun watching it that I don't care.
 
 
Chiropteran
15:13 / 11.07.06
"holy fuck! I can't wait until the next one!"

Less cheated than teased. Unless one had expected it to be Keith, in which case "cheated" may still apply.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:15 / 11.07.06
To go back to speculating about the plot for a moment, when Jack gives Tia the undead monkey it runs off and there's a very deliberate shot of it hanging around in a back room - I didn't notice, but Wikipedia (see earlier link) says that what we see is the monkey sitting on Geoffrey Rush's boots. If that's the case, and if Tia and him are in cahoots, then it's possible they've been playing Jack throughout the film - putting him in a position where he needs Barbosa to save him and the Pearl, which B is not going to do without a (fairly obvious) price.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:17 / 11.07.06
Oooh...

and it would totally make sense for the monkey to be involved somehow. It is, after all, the seafaring ancestor of the Nazi monkey in Raiders.

If you're right about the ring, Fly, then I'll put money on the monkey stealing it at some point next movie.
 
 
Aertho
16:44 / 11.07.06
Fly:

I've not seen the film, and I know I've probably spoiled myself horribly, but I'm interested in what's being said here, there, and other threads in the Barb... zeitgeisty?

I plan to fully enjoy the film, regardless of incidents of insensitivity.
 
 
Evil Scientist
17:31 / 11.07.06
Tia Dalma knows where Jack is, and that he's not dead.

She may well know where he is, but I'm pretty sure he's dead. Hence them needing Captain "I was shot in the heart me" Barbossa to lead them to him.

Some sort of Pirate Valhalla perhaps? Considering the long-awaited Keith Richards/Jack's Dad cameo?
 
 
Spaniel
18:16 / 11.07.06
We got to the halfway point and then the boy decided he was having a good time - a very good time - a very loud time - and we had to leave.

Boo.

Must find a way back to the cinema.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
08:38 / 12.07.06
The 3way swordfest managed what I thought impossible: making the swordfights in the 1st seem tame by comparison.

Yes, I found it relentlessly awesome.

And, what's the deal with Barbosa eating the apple -- can't quite recall his fate from the 1st as it's been a while (Depp kills him?) -- does that mean that he is now flesh and blood?
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:53 / 12.07.06
And, what's the deal with Barbosa eating the apple -- can't quite recall his fate from the 1st as it's been a while (Depp kills him?) -- does that mean that he is now flesh and blood?

Shot in the chest at close range by Sparrow, seconds after the curse was lifted. It seemed pretty certain that he was dead (although perhaps he survived). If he did then he'd be human again like the rest of the crew.

The apple thing was something he obsessed about in the years of being an unfeeling, ever-hungry skele-pirate. Presumably symbolising his frustration that he couldn't even enjoy the simple pleasure of eating an apple.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:12 / 12.07.06
I'm not sure I like the idea of Tia Dalma playing Jack in order to help Barbossa get back his ship, though - it would be another example of 'ethnic character turns out to be evil and treacherous'.

Then again, she is a voodoo priestess...and as such presumably used to striking dodgy bargains with the supernatural and shifting out of them in a mercurial fashion; perhaps she's actually going to appear to be playing Jack while actually playing Barbossa. If they made her treacherous in the same way as Jack, capable of spinning vast webs of deceit but actually turning out to be one of the good guys - that would be super-cool.

In general I think all movies would be improved by the presence of a morally ambiguous voodoo character, and if you can throw in an evil monkey then so much the better.

As to the racism...I didn't mind the cannibals quite so much, and actually quite liked the 'releasing the soul from the body' thing, but the fact that it was the racially mixed pirates who were the eval tr8orz, led, indeed, by the Islamic-looking Asian guy, was more problematic. There's still time to make things good on this front in the third film, though - how many of us, after watching ESB, after all, would have been pissed to find that the only black man in the Star Wars Universe was a traitor? But then he gets to destroy the Death Star...basically look, what I'm saying is more Tia Dalma in the next one, lots more, and preferably have her stick it to Beckett and the East India Company big-time. And possibly hook up with Jack. And wear some kind of crazy voodoo pirate costume, that would rock. Yes.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
11:10 / 12.07.06
Tia Dalma flirts with precisely one character, Will Turner.

Wuurrlll ... she was kinda saucy with Captain Jack - but your point holds, as to be inclined to flirt with Mr. Depp merely indicates that her character has eyes and taste.

I reckon Jack will be discovered somewhere beneath the waves, alive but probably cursed/trapped in the Kingdom of Neptune, drinking shipwrecked Napoleon Brandy and getting off with a bevy of sexy mermaids.

OMG they have to have mermaids in the next one!!!
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
13:28 / 12.07.06
I really enjoyed it, but I'm surprised that people thought it was better than the first instalment. I though PotC was much tighter and neater and had infintely less irritating Will Turner (alright, maybe not *infinitely* less).

I'm not criticising the second for this, just saying I thought the first worked that little bit better as a roller coaster ride of piratey fun.

Apart from setting up the post-credits gag, I thought the whole cannibal scene seemed superfluous anyway. As it so clearly raises issues of stereotyping, I lean towards concluding that it must have been included because it re-emerges as relevant in some way in PotC3...

And Boboss, do you have a Picturehouse cinema near you? Our local one has 'Big Scream' screenings dedicated to those with screaming, or even potentially screaming, children (I assume, having never actually been to one - for all I know it's for anyone who can't shut up long enough to watch a film, in which case there are many, many 'adults' I would point in this direction). Which strikes me as a simply brilliant idea for everyone involved! I'm sure other cinemas have something similar.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:43 / 12.07.06
I really enjoyed that, though I was getting restless by the end. Although I knew there was a third movie being made I didn't realise it was running directly after movie two, has anyone noticed the three film structure is very similar to Star Wars (episode two taking place a while after one, ep three running straight on from two in which one of the main heroes is taken by teh evil forces to force the others to go on a quest)? Less hot tentacle action would have helped. I'm also not sure I like Barbarossa being back, I don't know why creators think bringing back a villain our hero has already defeated is a gateway to a good story, but then at least he's only died once, it's not like he's Magneto.

Does anyone think it significant that this film is not being advertised as 'Pirates of the Caribbean 2'? Again, it's like the first three Star Wars films, RotJ wasn't Star Wars III or even Star Wars VI in terms of marketing outside the film.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:04 / 13.07.06
Am I the only one who thinks the witch has something else up her sleeve and the mission she's sending Will et al on has absolutely nothing to do with Captain Jack? After all most people Jack meets tend to hate his guts afterwards, the witch is consorting with Barbossa, Jack's most hated enemy.

Argh! We have to wait a year for the next movie!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:13 / 13.07.06
I've just worked out what it is I missed in this film that I loved in the first (apart from a proper end) - and that's the element of emotional melodrama, which I really thought gave a depth and flavour to Black Pearl which Dead Man's Chest rather lacked.

I'm a sucker for a doomed (anti)hero anyway, especially when played by Geoffrey Rush (see Shine, Quills, Black Pearl, Life and Death of Peter Sellers etc. etc.) but I believe that it was the dynamic between Barbossa and Sparrow, not the well-meaning junior-lead antics of Bloom and Knightley, which kept Black Pearl cracking along and gave it that satisfyingly 3D quality - who would have thought that a Hollywood film of this type could do loud and soft, height, breadth and depth? Not I - which was why I was so pleasantly surprised.

Barbossa's plight in the first film is explained fully and comprehensibly, and is both deserved and poignant. He's the Big Bad, but sort of not - he's also suffering. (Rush is your go-to guy for this type of role, and I had high hopes of Bill Nighy, but the face-tentacles didn't help his acting much). The writers appear to be trying to sort-of reprise this character in the second film, with the Davy Jones/Flying Dutchman set-up. Davy's clearly going begging for some sort of emotional sympathy - fell in love so locked his heart in a chest, isn't very scary, Lord only knows how he got on the Dutchman or became the Godfather of the Seven Seas cos that's not explained - but it doesn't work, and so the empathy/enmity seesaw which was handled so brilliantly in the first film comes down firmly on Jack's side. Two of the things I did like (which tapped into my special fondness for fucked-up, morally ambiguous characters in pain, as many per film as they can cram in) were
1) Stellan Skarsgard as Bootstrap Bill, looking much more creepy and scary (yet sympathetic) than Nighy-Jones. Only reason for Will Turner to be in the film at all, IMHO.
2) Return of Norrington as a sozzled, sarcastic tramp. YES! Now we're allowed to like him! Although it wasn't necessary (or believable) to have him chucking up drunkenly between sharply observed, perfectly enunciated digs at Jack.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:51 / 13.07.06
But on the other hand it's the first time what's his name has shown emotion in a role since This Life...
 
 
Whisky Priestess
18:47 / 13.07.06
I know. Innit great?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:58 / 13.07.06
Davenport's not good as a straight man, certainly. The overwhelmingly Am-Dram awfulness of his performance in the first one was one of the more serious downsides, I felt.

Did enjoy this though. It could have replaced about a quarter of an hour of slapstick action with five or so minutes on the Davy Jones back-story to it's benefit, but then again, fair enough, such films are not aimed at old ladies on tranquilisers. Three and a half out of five.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:16 / 14.07.06
I'm not sure I care so much about Davy Jones backstory, he's the Emperor, he's just there for Barbossa to chuck down the Kraken's mouth at the end of ep three in order to redeem himself and... look, I'm going to keep on with the Star Wars metaphor until someone stops me. Then I'm moving on to comparing PotC to the 'My Little Pony' movies. It's been that kind of day.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
00:00 / 15.07.06
My Little Pirate?
 
 
Spaniel
17:23 / 18.07.06
Seen it now. Twas good.

And Boboss, do you have a Picturehouse cinema near you? Our local one has 'Big Scream' screenings dedicated to those with screaming, or even potentially screaming, children

Thanks for the headsup. We do indeed have a Picture House cinema (The Duke of York), not fifteen minutes from my door, in fact, and they do indeed have a Big Scream slot - which the Bosun has happily (read: no tears) sat through on more than one occasion. Sadly, however, they ain't showing DMC at the mo'.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:52 / 19.07.06
Gosh, I don't know... I just really didn't dig this film apart from the creature and ship design.

Depp's performance seemed more pantomimic than in the previous film, or perhaps was just more of the same and therefore seemed more ho-hum ~ tiptoe walking, hands out daintily, coupled with rummy wobblings; cowardly manoeuverings and selfishness as his only real motivation, making his behaviour as well as his performance pretty predictable throughout. Maybe it's inevitable that by faithfully continuing the same persona that seemed startling and charismatic in "Black Pearl", Depp as Jack would lose edge, novelty, and for me, a lot of interest, but he seemed very one-note. His change of heart when returning to the Pearl to shoot the Kraken was signalled as a deepening of his character, but as far as I could see, he didn't rescue the situation at all ~ Elizabeth was about to shoot, when Jack actually slowed things down by placing his foot on the rifle and insisting on doing it himself. Did he save the day at all, and did his return make any difference to their fate?

Only his last moments, ironically, made me consider him in a new light as noble, heroic, glam, dandy and a bit tragic, rather than Russell Brand as Captain Hook.

The other two leads, and Davenport as the third lead of sorts, were, I felt, an awful combination of pretty looks and utterly plain performance. In fact, more than plain ~ they were half-dead. They were undead. They were pretty corpses. Swann and Turner are just dead-weight anchors on this franchise for me. They kill it, ironically, whereas the villains and anti-hero always liven it up.

Further: plot. While I relished the first film as tight, this seemed all slack and loose ends. I'm one of those who didn't realise that was BTTF:II, a chapter rather than a self-contained film or even, really, an episode working in its own right ~ none of it seemed to tie up at all. I felt more closure at the end of last night's "Lost".

Finally: the action seemed very overblown and cartoonish here. I can't remember quite if this was the case in "Black Pearl", but the waterwheel swordfight, for instance, while impressive in terms of stunts and/or CGI, seemed over-the-top to the point of being ridiculous. It might seem silly to complain about realism in a series with skeleton pirates and men made of the sea-bed, but of course a film can have its own internal logic even if it involves supernatural elements, and I felt that the laws of physics were entering Tom and Jerry territory in most of the action sequences ~ which stripped it of any sense of risk, dread, danger and excitement for me.

The saddest thing is that I don't much feel like watching "Black Pearl" again now, in case I realise with hindsight that it was along the same lines as this largely yawnsome hokum.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:03 / 19.07.06
Oh, there was some other stuff I just didn't get, either because I drifted off (do you love my nautical images? "Anchors" in the post above, I think. I just keep motoring) or because the script was wonky, or perhaps scenes were cut.

1. Was there any explanation of how Jack became the God-Chief on that island? He was heading to land, and the next time we see him, his men are in a bone cage halfway down a cliff, and he's the doomed chief?

2. Was there any rationale or filling-out of that earlier situation where Jack ended up in a floating coffin? What was meant to be going on with that island where people were dragged off and their eyes pecked out by birds?

3. Did I miss a later pick-up on this, or was the second shot of the film, with the tea-cups filled with rainwater, just there in isolation?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:24 / 19.07.06
4. I'm afraid I didn't understand the rules or concept of the dice game either, which kind of undermined any tension.

Maybe I'm thick and inattentive or maybe the film was slapdash and careless, or a bit of both.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:59 / 19.07.06
I think maybe you just hate fun.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:25 / 19.07.06
I liked the first one though! I bought it on DVD and I very rarely do that with recent films.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
20:08 / 19.07.06
Look, all I'm saying is that you didn't like a fight atop a waterwheel (!) and that the child inside you has probably died since the last film.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:43 / 19.07.06
All I'm really saying is that Verbinski has violated my memories of "Black Pearl" and everything it stood for. Remember 2003? The sense of wonder? We can't ever get that back. I don't know how old you "Chest" fans are but for me, "Pearl" is bound up with my childhood. The early 2000s were a really special time, and "Pearl" is part of a year when I think I really found part of myself. Saddam captured... Jacko arrested... Concorde's last flight... it was a time of disappointment, disillusionment. A generation of POTC fans ~ my generation ~ learned something that year about what it was to be grown-up. And in "Pearl" we had a new hero to replace Jacko, an adventure wilder than any supersonic flight. An escape from the grim political times and the hard lessons in adulthood. What better place to go for our dreams to take shape than Disneyland. Who better, to teach us, than a trusted mentor like Mickey.

Now Mickey's taken off the mask, and with "Chest", we find he's ratted out the values of 2003. "Pearl" was made out of love. The sequel? You'll find this "Chest" is all about the "gold", "me hearties".
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:00 / 19.07.06
2. Was there any rationale or filling-out of that earlier situation where Jack ended up in a floating coffin? What was meant to be going on with that island where people were dragged off and their eyes pecked out by birds?

People are being dragged off and left to have their eyes pecked out by birds by someone(s) from whom Jack Sparrow has just stolen the drawing of the Key. We arrive in midi-ass rays (sp?).

3. Did I miss a later pick-up on this, or was the second shot of the film, with the tea-cups filled with rainwater, just there in isolation?

They're tea-cups set for the reception after Will & Elizabeth's marriage, which has been ruined firstly by the weather, and secondly by the fact that the navy have turned up and slapped the cuffs on Will. Also possibly an homage to the video for 'November Rain'.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
23:39 / 19.07.06
1. Was there any explanation of how Jack became the God-Chief on that island? He was heading to land,

I remembered while washing up that I did doze a bit here, and there was a scene where Jack is exploring the jungle and a scary black face (I imagine this might be how it was described in the script) appears suddenly. I woke up there and stayed awake for quite some time.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:58 / 20.07.06
I did doze a bit

So hold on. You weren't even awake for the whole movie?

That's a bit rubbish, whichever way you cut it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:12 / 20.07.06
It is partly my fault and partly the film's fault if I doze off during a film, I think.
 
 
Spaniel
07:54 / 20.07.06
The scene with the face? That was Will, not Jack

Oooooh, MW, naughty.
 
  

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