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Pirates of the Caribbean 2: Dead Man's Chest - Post Release Thread

 
  

Page: 123(4)

 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:05 / 25.07.06

Oh, hell, miss wonderstarr, I'm not taking offense. I'm just making lively conversation. And, yeah, my interpretation of his body language is debatable; your interpretation is as valid as anyone's.


OK, that's good... I just felt you were quick to insist you remembered it fine, as if you might not want to hear any suggestions about alternative interpretations, and I didn't want to get into anything too intense. I am all for lively conversation.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
07:48 / 25.07.06
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet (I haven't read the whole thread,) but, wrt racism in the movie, the scene where the pirates were apparently separated into two distinct ethnic groups by the cannibals (in one bone cage hanging over the sea there were the caucasians, and in the other, the 'others,') seemed particularly telling. Granted, neither side behaved all that well when it became clear that the boat didn't need a full crew - they're pirates! etc, they're allowed to do and say the things that you'd like to, but can't - but as an audience member, I felt very much invited to punch the air as the untrustworthy brown-skins went sailing off into that bottomless abyss.

Ok, it's a Disney film, and there's a certain obligation to carry on Walt's legacy in terms of crypto-fascism - they're always going to have one eye on what's likely to happen if Walt's head ever comes out of the cryogenic freezer, attached to a new and more powerful body (interesting that reanimation is a *big theme* in these films,) but that bit in particular did seem a little much. If the cannibals were supposed to be a mixed ethnic group (and I really don't think they were,) why were they that scrupulous about putting all the whites in one cage, and all the 'darks' in the other?
 
 
*
08:16 / 25.07.06
%Extra charge for white meat only.%

Actually, I believe there were some token background people of color in the "white" cage, but it was very hard to see. That doesn't get them off the hook for that scene, if true.

And miss wonderstarr, sorry for being a bit spiky in that line. I was, and I apologize. I felt condescended to.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:55 / 25.07.06
Sorry for making you feel that way!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:24 / 25.07.06
(PC? Et tu, Whiskey Priestess?)

It's not a dirty word, surely! Unless I would be "othering" someone (pirate or no) by attributing PC qualities to them?

Must say, though, that I do quite love the comic idea of a pirate movie completely free of the racism, sexism, homophobia and injustice that was rampant in the eighteenth century (which is when DMC is set, no?) Although I cannot shake the suspicion that it would involve little more than a two and a half hour long shot of Jack sleeping off a bottle of rum on that desert island.
 
 
Thorn Davis
09:31 / 25.07.06
"Although I cannot shake the suspicion that it would involve little more than a two and a half hour long shot of Jack sleeping off a bottle of rum on that desert island."

That wouldn't go over at all. Too white + hetero centric. You'd need about 14 or 15 pirates of various combinations of sexuality and race, with the camera spending precisely the same amount of time with each. Even then you risk being accused of stereotyping because of the signifiers you chose in order to demonstrate their traits. eg: "Did the gay pirates really *have* to swap their rum for a bottle of mineral water, wear tight pink T-Shirts and spend the movie comparing their abs and necking pills?" and other such PC gone wild criticisms.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:39 / 25.07.06
Sorry, reading that back it comes across a bit snarktastic.

I spose I just mean to say that if you are going to set a film in an era of history when slavery was rife and female emancipation a thing of the future, you can't ignore or rewrite those glaring aspects of that time in history and society and still do justice to a story that is of that time, however distasteful the slavery etc. is today.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:08 / 25.07.06
Must say, though, that I do quite love the comic idea of a pirate movie completely free of the racism, sexism, homophobia and injustice that was rampant in the eighteenth century (which is when DMC is set, no?)

Arguably, POTC isn't set in the eighteenth century but a fantasy version thereof, so really you could do whatever you liked in terms of ethnicity and gender representation. Just as there weren't (I believe) Kraken around in the C18, I doubt there were actually lily-white, porcelain-faced English beauties successfully disguising themselves as boys by smearing one streak of mud on their cheekbones and tucking their hair up.

Snark and rolleyes directed at POTC, not you.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:51 / 25.07.06
I spose I just mean to say that if you are going to set a film in an era of history when slavery was rife and female emancipation a thing of the future, you can't ignore or rewrite those glaring aspects of that time in history and society and still do justice to a story that is of that time, however distasteful the slavery etc. is today

It seems like a mistake to this movie too seriously, but still, it's one thing to acknowledge the sexism, racism etc, that went on at the time (as if anyone who's currently working at Disney is all that interested,) and quite another to play up same for shits'n'giggles in the twenty first century. I don't suppose these films were ever meant to be historically accurate, so, given that, it's hard to see why the director saw fit to go quite so far in terms of routinely dispensing with non-caucasian characters, as if they were nothing.

This and the last one are family entertainment, of course, but it does seem a bit as if the family being targeted is the Manson one, really.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
14:21 / 25.07.06
Anyone miss the Black people holding candles as the white crew members sail by, their eyes upturned in what looks like worship, while the white characters sail to the home of...

Not to dispute the racism criticisms which I think are valid but isn't that whole 'upriver' scene just a massive quote from Apocalypse Now? The reason why they quoted that is different of course and I think this sort of mirrors the 'but it's a pirate movie, they're *like* that' vs. 'they don't have to be' stuff from upthread but it may be interesting nontheless.
 
 
Chiropteran
15:10 / 25.07.06
the Black people holding candles....their eyes upturned in what looks like worship...

I figured they were mourning Jack (who, it grows increasingly apparent, may be rather important, in terms of big-F Fate).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:25 / 25.07.06
I got the Apocalypse Now thing, too, though I tend to see Apocalypse Now in EVERYTHING...
 
 
*
17:07 / 25.07.06
PC isn't a dirty word, but it does mean that anything someone says about making the movie more sensitive is dismissable by default as PC gone maaaaaad. Which is the territory we are now in, thanks very much.

Of course a pirate movie has to depict the unjust crap that pirates do, and that happens to pirates, but there's a difference between depicting racism and perpetuating it for fuck's sake. And PotC can't be arsed to be a little more complex in its treatment of race than "savage cannibal" jokes, as is the case with a great many movies of which this is merely one example. It wouldn't be that hard. Make the cannibals not really cannibals, or really a bunch of perfectly "civilized" people who've gone feral. Include some complex PoC roles. Show the social conditions of the 18th c. as something that exists that is a PROBLEM, not a hiiiilarious backdrop that makes the pratfalls better. Trust me, you can still do that and be funny. Take half a second to run the movie by a racial sensitivity focus group and then actually listen to their suggestions. Furthermore, when people express concerns, respond with an ounce more respect than iT WA5 0NLy A JO— i mean a M0v1E!!!11!!!!111!
 
 
*
17:13 / 25.07.06
And on a happier note: Architeuthis photos, and an article about mesonychoteuthis. Not big enough to eat whole ships, that we know of, but surely big enough to deserve the name of kraken.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:38 / 25.07.06
Ok, I've just seen the movie, and I'd like to make a few comments:

1 - I loved it. Loved, loved, loved it. I though I wouldn't, but I did.

2 - It's amazing how Bill Nighy still looks like Bill Nighy, even with all the prostetics and CGI on his face. Something about the voice and the body language.

3 - Davy Jones, and his crew: oh, my god, I wish I could slo-mo the film so I could catch every detail in their deep one's bodies. Awesome! I wish to see them fighting the undead pirates of the first PotC

4 - I'm a little fed up with this trilogy fad, where the second movie is always only the first half of a bigger movie. This is not really a trilogy, is it? It's a duology with a part 2 twice as big as part 1. Maybe it would have been best if the Flying Dutchman guys were defeated in this movie, leaving only the set-up (the rescue of Cappy Jacky) for part 3 at the end. BUT, I love Davy Jones crew design so much, I decided to forgive them that just for the extra two hour of that freaky mutated piracy.

5 - I loved to see the undead monkey back. To make it like a pet plague in the Black Pearl was really fun. It probably have been annoying the crew for so long that they've got used to him. "It's no use shooting him, capitan" "It made me feel better". Great fun

6 - At the very end, when Tia Murta said they needed a captian who knew the seas on the far side of earth and everybody looked up, I though they would introduce keith Richards/Jack's dad character, and I though "Man, that's going to be so lame!" (sorry for using the term "lame", but alas, that was what I thought at the time). But then, there's Barbosa. Not only that, it was Barbosa eating an apple with his pet monkey (which I hope is still undead) on the shoulder. I was "Wow, this is so freaking cool! Go B-man!"

7 - I love the fact the whole movie is populated with anti-heroes. Even the good guys (Will and Kathy) are out for their own sake most of the time. The two ex-undead pirates who were vilains/comic relief in the first movie come back as anti-heores/comic relief (very funny ones, no less), but still are vilains. The movie doesn't make any apologies: "yes, our stars are pirates, and they will do piraty things, even if it means raping, theft, backstabbing, and all that". Very edgy for a Disney movie, me thinks. And in the end they bring back an old vilain as the new anti-hero. Go, B-man!

8 - the lack of Ana maria character from the first movie was a bad, bad mistake. She was the most interesting member of the Black Pearl crew in the first movie (which was already very interesting, in a glorified extra kinda of way). She gave them personality, ans she would made an awesome first-mate for Jack. I hope they bring her back for part 3, maybe as capitain of her own ship, but I doubt, since there's already Tia Murta there, and if I have any clue as to how holywood producers think, two strong black female characters in a single movie would be just too much for their little minds.

9 - I loved the reapeated attacks of the Kraken. i'm tired of monters that pop up once, are killed, and that's it (or pop up twice, the first to show how mean they are, the second to be ass-kicked), In this movie, the monster is indeed an unstoppable killing machine, and it shows. In fact, I hope it comes back and survives through part 3...

10 - the movie makes wish I had kids, just so I can take them to a ride in the PotC ride. I remember it from when I was child myself, and it was the coolest one in all Disney World,

11 - I think now is safe to say that Pirates kick Ninja ass. But we may find out for sure in part 3. Here's hoping

12 - Fuck physics. I loved the three way sword fight, and not just the mill part. The "former comodore" character was great, and a great development for a secundary character in movie one.

13 - "The rum too?" oh no!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:00 / 25.07.06
Are they updating the "Pirates" ride at any of the Disney parks? This was actually my main thought about PoTC this week ~ that the ride would now seem distressingly old-fashioned and irrelevant to a lot of young fans of the films, and that if Disney was on the ball they should probably have launched a new "Black Pearl/Dead Man's Chest" ride or annex at at least one of the parks, perhaps retaining and rebranding the original as "POTC Classic" and promoting the new as "Pirates with a Spin!" or "An Old Friend Gets A Brand New Twist", you know. At the very least, I'd have closed the rides for a couple of months last year and jazzed up a couple of the rooms with animatronic Jack Sparrows, W. Turners and E. Swanns in the appropriate places.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:02 / 25.07.06
Also I made a bet around 2004 that the Autopia ride was being closed for 2006 relaunch as a "Cars" spin-off, so I'm hoping that might also have proved accurate.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:04 / 25.07.06
Lol, sorry I should have looked first, but this is rather telling.

In 2006, Walt Disney Imagineering debuted refurbishments at Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom inspired by the Pirates of the Caribbean feature films to coincide with the release of the second movie, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest. Described by Imagineers as an "enhancement" to the attraction's existing storyline, the refurbishments included Audio-Animatronic figures of Captain Jack Sparrow and Hector Barbossa, along with new special effects, improved lighting and audio, and an appearance by the films' supernatural character Davy Jones, all voiced by the original actors. The skeleton scenes in the Magic Kingdom version are now accompanied by a quiet, melancholy instrumental version of "Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me)."
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:14 / 25.07.06
[sorry off-topic but provides "closure" to my Disney film tie-in speculation, which was apparently along the right lines but... wrong.


In 2005, rumors circulated that Disney was planning on developing an overlay that would tie in with the Pixar film, Cars, which would require the ride going down sometime in 2006. However, Disney officials have not confirmed this. It has also been rumored that in 2006 the Autopia cars will be replaced with ones powered by fuel cells.
]
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:24 / 25.07.06
Sorry for continuing the threadrot but:

If Pirates of the Caribean was Disney's coolest ride, Autopia was cleary the undisputed Number 2. It was the first time in my life I actually drove something that was not a bumper car. I hope they re-vamp it indeed, and most of all, remove those annoying safety tracks that kept us kids from really having a great time, ha ha.

[sarcasm alert] Maybe the next ride-inspired Disney movie will be "Mission to Mars". Do they still have that snore-fest working?
 
 
Mark Parsons
03:06 / 28.07.06
I bought into all the dire reviews, but saw it with a ten year old which may have helped me feel less cynical. or maybe not. But I had a great time and was entertained. It's fluff, but fun, romping fluff with pirates and cool SFX and Depp & company.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:34 / 28.07.06
Hector Barbossa?
 
 
CameronStewart
14:11 / 28.07.06
>>>2 - It's amazing how Bill Nighy still looks like Bill Nighy, even with all the prostetics and CGI on his face. Something about the voice and the body language.<<<

There's actually no prosthetics involved - Davy Jones is a 100% CGI character. The tentacles, the hat, the clothes, his eyes and mouth, it's all entirely digital, created in the same manner as Gollum from LotR - Nighy was on set in a special suit covered in motion-tracking sensors, and was then erased and replaced by the digital character, which was animated using Nighy's performance as a guide. It's really an astonishing achievement.



 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:26 / 30.07.06
Hector = not a cool name. I hear ya.

But then again, it was the eighteenth century. They do things differently there.
 
 
MintyFresh
20:37 / 01.08.06
I apologize if this has all been said before, but I was thinking about the whole OMG BARBOSSA'S BACK thing, and came up with a nifty little theory. I think that Barbossa survived just long enough after being shot to get a cursed coin and become immortal again. The minute he fell under the curse, the bullet hole would heal. He could then put the coin back and end the curse. He ran into Tia Dalma somewhere(or perhaps he, like Jack, already knew her), and she had some kind of premonition that he was going to be useful and took him back to her place coughnastypiratesexcough. Or something. That's just my opinion; feel free to rip it to pieces.
 
 
FinderWolf
02:40 / 02.08.06
>> And it had Davey Jones playing an enormous organ with his face-tentacles. We can't forget that.

YES!!!! Tentacle music-playing!

Stellan Skar. really rocked here. Ditto the miraculous Mr. Nighy. For me, these 2 stole the movie.
 
  

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