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Videogames & OverMind

  
  

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E. Coli from the Milky Way
16:03 / 19.06.06
Quantum, thanks for the links.
 
 
Quantum
17:11 / 19.06.06
No problem, here's a first hand report from Wired and a bit more on the technology of the helmet itself from innerworlds.com which also has a bazillion interesting articles too like 'the spiritual personality'
"The part of the brain that manages our states of consciousness, the temporal lobes, is a little busier in these people than most, producing personality traits that appear over and over among spiritually oriented people."
 
 
Quantum
17:33 / 19.06.06
There's so much that can be done, if you just approach it in the right spirit

Especially if you sell the game as a VR total immersion experience with integral Persinger helmet and narcotic injectors, teledildonics and pseudo-AI acolytes.
Mathers as the bad guy at the end of level 1? The tricky Spare-seduction subgame and Equinox-editing puzzle level could be fiendish, and the possibilities for comedy summoning are endless... I can hear Al's sampled scratchy voice right now saying 'Welcome to Netzach. Whack the demons for extra gnosis when you see the flashing seal of Ba'al!'
 
 
Queer Pirate
18:28 / 19.06.06
What about invoking Link as a godform? Isn't he the archetypical Boy On An Adventure, adventures that have been experienced so far by millions of people, much more than a character on his own? Even Shigeru Miyamoto himself, the creator of Zelda, said that the point of the original Legend Of Zelda was to let the player experience that feeling of being a young boy running around in a field waving about a wooden sword and experiencing imaginary adventures. Aren't there ways of using such a powerful archetype in a magical spell?

Also, I am reminded of the first time I ever finished Super Mario Bros as a kid, thinking on how focused I was and how I just leaped screaming when I finally cleared the last stage (and saved the Princess )... What if I had used that "climax" to charge a sigil? Or what if I tried to clear a very difficult game for the first time while repeating a mantra representing some intent over and over again during the whole play-through?

Finally, a few months back, I saw one of my friends' "kid" brother (he was 14 of 15) playing an online version of Tetris called "Speed" Tetris. The speed at which he was playing the game was nothing short of hallucinating (and I make a living as a video game tester, which means my own skills as a gamer are quite decent). I'm just wondering what kind of magicians this "cyber" generation could become.
 
 
Quantum
18:40 / 19.06.06
The screenagers will make us look like fossils thinking at a snail's pace I'm sure, but I bet they never run around in a field with a wooden sword having imaginary adventures.
 
 
rising and revolving
18:54 / 19.06.06
Wa-hey!

Trajectory has firmly moved from A) to B) now. Which is a shame.

I am kind of interested in the stuff being discussed, but it's pretty quickly veered towards a non-productive discussion. Well, it sorta started there.

The important thing about gaming, beyond basic narratives is that video games contain feedback loops. Combine this with bio-feedback and you can get to certain brain-wave states faster than you can alone. Which is simply to say that if you have a machine that goes ping when you're in an Alpha state then you'll learn more quickly how to go into an alpha state.

What's the point of an alpha state? Don't really know - but it's one of the signs of meditative states, and I'm a big believer (from experience) than meditative skills are the backbone of good ritual practice. Self reflection is needed to ensure you don't go putting to much of yourself into your experiences - people who meditate regularly don't tend to proclaim themselves god-emperors of the astral plane nearly as much as those who don't, in my experience.

So, we have a meditation machine. Good-o. We have feedback. Also good.

How would it work? What would you be able to do with it, that you couldn't do with out it?

Nothing, of course. It's a tool. Is there something you can do with shamanic drumming that's impossible to do with a high magic ritual? I doubt it - the practitioner is the key, not the tools. Near as I've experienced, anyhow.

However, it's a good tool - because it can feedback from your experience. Because it can reinforce associations into the muscles and reflexes and bypass concious selection. There are kids who can tell you the number of frames (that's 60ths of seconds) that each attack in Street Fighter takes. That's thousands of attacks. They have this information at their fingertips so much that they can make decisions based upon them in 10ths of seconds.

That's the kind of understanding, as Crowley has pointed out (amongst others) that you need to have of the Qabalah before you're really using it. Why not learn that in an interactive, supported environment? Why not learn Gematria by walking through a world in which by looking at things you can bring their Hebrew names up on screen? Why not shuffle those letters around, interactively, in order to reshape the world around you?

What would doing that achieve? It should achieve a new perspective on the world around you. Which is a little bit magical in itself - it shifts your relationship to reality. It's training wheels for the real deal, sure, but it's intensely useful.

It's not really that hard to enter magical trance using any number of already existing methods, what would be the purpose of pouring millions into a videogame that accomplished what can be done easily without it?

Why is a duck? I mean, why not? Are we talking about millions? Maybe. Maybe not. Because it hasn't been done, and interesting things may come out of it. Making games commercially is just like making movies - it costs a lot of money and sometimes you get a result that's worth it. On rare occasions, you get something genuinely magical, because it connects to people.

You learn things much faster by doing them, and games offer the opportunity to learn a lot of the groundwork of various traditions by doing them. That's the start, from my opinion. There's other places this can go, but you learn than when you start - not in preliminary theory land.

As for the "what is trance," question, why does this need to be defined? We can say alpha states (as I suggested above, simply because it's been tested and done) but there are many different practices that can be adapted for an interactive experience. It's like asking "Well, what do you mean you could write down in a book the steps you take to get into a trance? Which trance? What do you mean by that? What is the person who reads the book going to do?" - the question itself seems to ultimately miss the point - which is you can communicate technique easily through a book. Hopefully that means people who read the book can do some of the work you've done, but without having to learn it all yourself, the way you did.

You'll note I'm not really engaging with Ignostic in what I'm writing. That's because there's nothing really there to engage with. On the other hand, the field *is* interesting and there's a lot of fascinating stuff coming.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
20:09 / 19.06.06


You'll note I'm not really engaging with Ignostic in what I'm writing. That's because there's nothing really there to engage with

I don't care if you engage with me or not, but after posting al i've posted don't tell me there is nothing.

BTW, there is a little visual joke. Hope you'll like it.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
20:18 / 19.06.06
And, wait a little bit rising, i'm not proclaming myself nothing like an god-emperor of the astral plane or something like that. But i've had my experiences and i talk about them, linking with, well, ill theories. Don't like it?

Why not make points on them indeed of look down on them (and that's a a thing Quantum & Mordant & Gipsy are doing)
 
 
Unconditional Love
20:50 / 19.06.06
The third doom has lots of necronomicon like sigils running through it, in all probability just a design feature.

BUT i do like those games, something about surviving the horror of ourselves turned into brutal killers and remaining human, probably more obvious as i play it as the story of the movie and games have fused as a narrative inside of me.

Thats happened quite a bit of late with movies and games the narratives of both media representations start to inform each other.

The problem i have with alot of first and third person games is the limited actions, so much so that the repetition of action detracts from what are sometimes complex story lines and involvement. Some of these games have such involving narrative structures that i think that is where the power of transforming consciousness could come in. i dont really see it as placed in the repetitive trance like nature, that just bores me after a while.

Having said that i have bought and played some pretty racist and sexist games as well, the games industry seems to suffer the same bigotry that was prevalent in the early movie industry.

If more concentration went into game mechanics and narrative in game structure, i think they would have more potential as magical tools, but they so easily fall into set patterns of game play. Alot like creating electronic music its easy to get stuck in loops, and the loops have limitation in structure, where as say listening to wynton marsalis i am being moved around by a constantly shifting pattern changing shape and form rather than bound by a repetitive structure. Games need a more organic feel, a wider expanse of interaction and a shift of pattern, far too ordered, the structures need to be as versatile as the human imagination.

Ideas from the movie exitenz come to mind of organic game units, but that scares me shitless.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
21:15 / 19.06.06
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_plasticity

Continuing with ill theories. Frome here i've got this:

Ryuta Kawashima at Tohoku University, found that excessive game playing may stunt development of the frontal lobes — including the cerebral cortex and its impulse control functions. Kawashima compared the brain activity of teens playing Nintendo games with that of teens doing arithmetic. He found that the Nintendo group only used the parts of the brain associated with vision and movement, while the math group had activity not only in the vision and movement areas, but throughout the frontal lobe — including the areas associated with learning, emotion, memory and impulse control. Kawashima argues that the study shows that teens who play video games at the expense of other activities, like math, reading aloud, or even just socializing or playing outside, will stunt their prefrontal cortex development end up more violent.

Ok. Now from here i've this:

The initial fleeting and fragmentary images experienced during remote viewing are also similar to the process called "graphic ideation," described by Robert McKim in his book, Experiences in Visual Thinking McKim explains how solutions to mechanical engineering problems are extracted from the unconscious through the process of sketching meaningless doodles, with the expectation that the answers will gradually appear in the drawings. Even though it may not be recognizable in early sketches, some-thing will eventually appear that can be identified as the solution to the problem. McKim's book makes it clear why artists are often the best psychic subjects. It is not that they are necessarily more psychic than the rest of us, but that they have much greater control over their visual imagery processes.

Finally, from here :
Several facts suggest that neurons change the density of receptors on their postsynaptic membranes as a mechanism for changing their own excitability in response to stimuli.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
21:23 / 19.06.06
Temporal lobe isn't in lymbic system? And is a brain zone intimately related with music.

Ohhh, what the fuck, i give up!
 
 
*
21:52 / 19.06.06
Ignostic, I'm interested in the way videogames could enhance magical practice, although so far I don't see anything which leads me to believe that they currently are. In order to help me see the merit of your thoughts, I want to encourage you to relax some of your attachment to your ideas and your posts. That gets people respect here. Mordant, Gypsy, and Quantum have earned respect in that way, and so far you haven't.

The problem as I see it is that when people asked you to better formulate your ideas, you responded indignantly, as if you felt they were questioning your worth as a person instead of your ideas. Inevitably some people found your defensiveness irritating, and some found it laughable, and you have been further hurt by people's responses to their feelings of anger or amusement at your defensive and angry response.

I've been on both sides of this on a number of occasions. It adds nothing in the way of pleasure and enjoyment in your life if you are too attached to your ideas and then are wounded by people's questioning of them. Your hurt and anger that people are questioning your ideas adds nothing in the way of barbelith's potential to educate, illuminate, and provide pleasure and joy to its members. I hope you are here for pleasure and joy, if not education and illumination. If so, I recommend that you become more flexible with regards to accepting criticism.

We could all do better to differentiate valid criticism from "looking down on" someone's ideas. Part of this is being able to recognize a valid point no matter the tone it's couched in. Part of it is being able to make a valid point. It's part of an ongoing debate at the present time how much responsibility posters have to point things out in a neutral tone even if they feel angry, hurt, or amused, and how much responsibility the board has to accomodate posters' perfectly valid feelings of anger, hurt, and amusement. I believe as it stands now, we acknowledge that using a neutral tone helps people fully grasp the point of a post without distraction, but we also acknowledge that it would be too restrictive to ask everyone to use a neutral tone all the time, and also that a tone may be read into something where it is not intended. That said, I would like to invite people here who want their meaning to have a better chance of being received clearly, to use a neutral tone as far as possible.

As far as I understand it, with the tone neutralized as much as I can manage, the discussion to this point has been as follows:

Ignostic: Reasoning from analogies based on Mozart and epilepsy, perhaps videogames can excite the brain in certain ways so as to produce mystical experiences. What effect might this have?

Mordant: The Mozart analogy and the epilepsy analogy are not actually valid. Here is a link which discredits the Mozart analogy. I happen to have both personal and researched knowledge which shows that the epilepsy analogy is flawed. Since your argument appears to be founded on these analogies, which I don't accept, I'm not sure where the discussion might go from here. Please clarify.

Ignostic: Based on the credentials of the researcher, I still think the Mozart analogy is valid. Seizures have to do with energy, qi has to do with energy, and videogames have to do with energy. With the rise of technology, we are surrounded by more and more energy. Could this have some effect?

QP: These are points worth exploring.

Quantum: Videogames take people's attention away from the real world, rather than encouraging engagement in it.

Ignostic: Maybe videogames develop one's ability to think in spatial, visual, and kinesthetic modalities. Could this not increase our abilities to apprehend the real world in different ways? Also, not everyone who plays videogames is removed from the real world.

r&r: It sounds like what you are talking about is trance induction. I think trance induction is only one part of overall development which might be overemphasized in this argument. However, I think videogames are extremely effective tools for trance induction. They effect the way we visualise. No one is intentionally putting these elements together effectively yet. Since I work in the game industry, I very much want to try.

Quantum: Cannot other activities also affect hand-eye coordination and thus improve a person's use of the kinesthetic modality? How are videogames different? I'm having trouble understanding the way Ignostic writes.

Evski: FPS engines would make a great teaching tool for ritual techniques.

QP: My mental state has influenced my success at videogames.

Ignostic: I'm referring to reaction time when I say such things as "central nervous system velocity."

Trouser: Since the 1960's, the idea of a link between epilepsy and spiritual technology in tribal societies has been heavily critiqued by Roger Walsh and others.

Gypsy: I would like to move the discussion towards exactly how and why videogames can help teach magical skills, but I feel prevented from doing so by an emphasis on the "coolness" of the idea. I have some specific questions about the topic that I think it would be more helpful for this thread to explore.

Stoat: It's very very rare for videogames to cause seizures. I too think the seizure analogy is not helpful.

This is about as far as I can get before the discussion breaks down into Ignostic's anger that hir ideas are not being well understood and appreciated, and Gypsy, Mordant, and Quantum's increasing irritation at Ignostic's angry reaction and the fact that their criticisms have not been understood and appreciated.

I find the potential of videogames as a teaching tool very interesting. I agree that they lead to different kinds of cognition, leading people to tend to think in the visual modality more proficiently. However, they are just one kind of useful tool. I would say that the use of videogames in this way would give people a new way to think about magic, in the way that developing writing has given people a new way to think about magic— but people in writing-oriented societies are not necessarily any more proficient at magic than people in societies which don't use writing.

I'm suspicious of the notion of technology as a catalyst to human spiritual development, because it seems to imply that more technologically dependent societies are fundamentally more evolved than those which do not use these technologies as widely. I think that implication breaks down in the face of real application.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
22:36 / 19.06.06
Well, maybe initial sarcasm of gipsy and mordant triggered my reaction. Sarcasm, in other way, understandable looking at the gibberish of my first post. But well, let's forget the past, i'm enjoying the debate.

Based on the credentials of the researcher, I still think the Mozart analogy is valid Actually, the study that the researcher quotes isn't included in the link mordant provides.

I'm suspicious of the notion of technology as a catalyst to human spiritual development, because it seems to imply that more technologically dependent societies are fundamentally more evolved than those which do not use
these technologies as widely. I think that implication breaks down in the face of real application.
It hasn't to be that way. Well, you have the shaman's drums (that, per se, they are a kind of technology) that induce spiritual experiences. Now we have electrical amplifiers, machines that can enhace the experience in a more spreaded way. Maybe our tecnhollogy will amplify the spiritual world, that's what i'm saying.

One thing has amazed me: in hindu cosmology, the element assigned to the quintaessencial ether (akasha) is linked to the ear. (shrotra)
 
 
+am
00:01 / 20.06.06
I have thinking about this subject a lot recently, prompted by dreams I had been having. The majority of the most vivid, ostensibly "magical" dreams I have had take place within a video-game setting. These are the dreams where the dream-reality is totally different to my normal reality, featuring bizarre creatures and landscapes and other video-game cues such as progressing to different levels, or having to get past certain enemies. Always with these dreams I either actively start playing the game in the dream and get sucked into the game, or simply have the knowledge that I am within a game, though still sensing fear and frustration and excitement.

An example would be finding a giant tree in a huge hallway, and built into the tree is a screen, wooden mouse and seat. I sit and start a game.. soon I am within the game experiencing a huge dragon, wooded realms, and all the other stuff characteristic of entering a different world - which i never get in normal dreams - though always with the knowledge that I am within a game.

I find this phenomenon puzzling. As an aspiring magician, I currently do reiki and other energy-current work some basic ceremonial magic, and whatever else I stumble upon and feels right. I have long been interested in the concept of the astral plane, of visiting different worlds within or without dreams, and this leads me to think that, as a child of the computer age (born 1983), perhaps the way I process the access of different "worlds" has been shaped by this involvement with games. As a child I would load up a game and become totally immersed in its world, to an extent I do not today. Perhaps this method of accessing other worlds or realms that at the time might as well have been real has imprinted itself upon my psyche, to the extent I do not perceive other spiritual realms as places to be "travelled" to via an astral body etc., but places to "load up"- compare walking to the library and finding a book and reading it to using the internet. That said, perhaps my experience of video-games as a child onwards has corrupted me into turning potentially informative dream experiences into mere "games" loaded up for me to play in.

Of course I have experienced things like playing Sim City all evening and then dreaming of the game, but these dreams are very different, immersive, vivid dreams that make me notice them, completely unrelated to any game I have or have not been playing (I am what they call a "causal gamer", though with exceedingly good taste, heh.)

I realise this is all very speculative, and that it could all just be a load of subconcious mumbojumbo and not my sleeping self's current way of coping with the intrusion other "realms", but I thought I'd chime in with my current thoughts on the subject...

I certainly agree with EvskiG's comment:

, since I first played Doom I've been waiting for someone to use an FPS engine to create a full 3D version of the LBRP, including all of the movements, drawing of the pentacles, vocalizations, visualizations, etc. etc. It would make a hell of a tutorial for people just learning the GD system.

I have thought about this a lot myself. Could computer "games" serve as excellent instruction tools for the magicians of today in high-technology information-overload visual-rich cultures? I certainly think so. But then how to actually implement this I have no idea. And would this run the risk of turning it all into "games" with no objective reality and thus having no real effect? Would this happen or matter? I'm not sure.

By the way, there are some programs on the internet you can download for free to turn your Pc into a "dream machine", but I can't remember what they're called right now cos I'm on a different computer. I think "Flasher 3000" is the one that works on recent machines. Quite fun to try. You probably all know this but just in case.
 
 
fluid_state
01:53 / 20.06.06
Well, while I may be the least effectual, uh, magic-forum-readerer here, I figured I should share some of the tricks I've used. I'm finding the vidgame trance state to be one of the most comfortable for me (although the most interesting games for this would be, IMHO, snowboarding /skateboarding/waveracing games, which are usually console based). All pretty vanilla, requiring editable/moddable video games (sorry, console users), using Sigils 101. The methodology for each differs from game to game, so if you need a specific game tutorial, PM me.

Skinning/Texturing - arguably the easiest method; Reskinning the models to suit your intent. Basically allows for the pasting of symbols on NPC's, enemies, and the landscape. Slightly more advanced (and possibly creepy) is reskinning an existing player/enemy model to resemble a certain person or creature.

ex: I've used this in a lot of games - in a sinlge-player game like GTA, I'd put sigils on the walls to charge while, say, fleeing the cops at 120mph. Changing the clothes in that game is effective as well, as it seems a great way to charge a sigil is to get into an intense situation, die, and experience that massive state change while the camera pans back from your sigil-marked body. A multiplayer game like CounterStrike Source allows for some very interesting permutaions on this, as you can spraypaint a sigil on a wall for everyone to see. Not that they have time to actually look at it, mind. I'd be very careful with this though, as it's not just you you're mucking around with here.

hmmm. long post, more later, so long as I'm not getting too far off the topic here.
 
 
*
02:47 / 20.06.06
It hasn't to be that way. Well, you have the shaman's drums (that, per se, they are a kind of technology) that induce spiritual experiences. Now we have electrical amplifiers, machines that can enhace the experience in a more spreaded way. Maybe our tecnhollogy will amplify the spiritual world, that's what i'm saying.
So I think you're saying that videogames (and digital media in general) can reach more people than drums, thus we can have a greater impact on the world. See, but this still hinges on the "Our technology is better -> our magic is better" thing, I think, if I'm understanding you right. I'm not convinced that spreading the experience out more, in magical terms, means it has more effect on the world. Am I still misunderstanding you?

One thing has amazed me: in hindu cosmology, the element assigned to the quintaessencial ether (akasha) is linked to the ear. (shrotra)
And this is another example of what is, I think, getting on people's nerves here. You say you're "amazed" by this. Why? Amazement implies that you think it's hugely significant, that knowing this fact changes how you think about things in a fundamental way. Please, speak to me as if I don't "get it" and explain how this is so amazingly significant to your construction of videogames as a better tool for producing spiritual experience than drums.

Further advice, if you will:
I think that people are finding your ability to be delighted with correspondences that you see between otherwise unrelated pieces of information a little distracting. Correspondences and synchronicities can be valuable tools, but one must be careful how much one invests in them. What I am getting from your posts is that when you see something which produces an association in your mind, you invest it with utmost significance without being particularly critical of that. This makes it hard to take you seriously, or to see which of your ideas are worthwhile and which will be ultimately dead ends. Then we do a lot of the work critiquing your ideas and find out there's not much to them in some cases. This is work that most of us do for ourselves on our own ideas before we post them to the board and ask others for their opinions. So it seems like we have to do your work for you. That, I think, is where the irritation (and hence the sarcasm) comes from.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
04:33 / 20.06.06
"Our technology is better -> our magic is better"
And I repeat to you: I'm not saying this in any moment.

And entitie, this ideas are not a fruit of a boring evening. I've been thinking on them for a long time. And yes, i'm amazed by the thing of the akasha. What's the problem? You find it irritating?
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
04:51 / 20.06.06
And about "spreading" the magickal experience (and i'm not talking about magick, i'm talking on perception of subtle sprectrums of reality):

when you look at phychic phenomena, you always read about that, oftenly, when the investigators are skeptical to them, it's hard to the psychic to reproduce them.

So this makes me think about "overmind"/consciousness field (wich, among other techniques, people acced by magic) like some kind of "electromagnetical" (i can't find a better analogy) that feedbacks itself. Here in Spain, there's an UFO contactee that is able to make you see UFO's. I think it was RAW in Cosmic Trigger that tells similar stories with Uri Geller.

So, the thing i'm saying is that, with more people acceding this subtle reality, the most this reality becomes "real". And that physiollogical changes done by electronic media could be a catalyzer.

I relate the buzzing quality of media, made of frequencies, waves and all this,with hiundu cosmology in where ether (that quantum element) is linked to the ear.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:54 / 20.06.06
Here's a quick summary of Roger Walsh's discussion of the 'pathological' understanding of shamanism (from "The Spirit of Shamanism", 1990). He starts out by noting that a wide range of labels - hysteric, epileptic, neurotic, psychotic etc., have been applied to shamans, and there has been a widespread view that shamans are psychologically disturbed. Walsh points out that this has tended to produce view of shamans as a single homogenised group. Obviously, this is a good example of cultural bias in action, says Walsh. He also discusses the related tendency to judge (and denigrate) altered states of consciousness from one's own limited perspective and experience - something Harner calls "cognicentrism" - and any state of consciousness that fell out of the narrow range allowed by western psychology was judged (often using psychoanalytic terminology) to be pathological.

The notion of the shaman's supposed epilepsy is related to the so-called "initiatory sickness". Firstly, says Walsh, these "fits" have rarely been observed directly by anthropologists. Secondly, Walsh says that anthropological descriptions of these "fits" are too vague for the purposes of clinical diagnosis. In any case, he says, shamans only appear to experience "fits" at specific points in their career, such as the initial "initiatory sickness", which would rule out organic forms of epilepsy such as temporal lobe epilepsy. Moreover, not all shamans experience fits.

Walsh goes on to review the way that shamans have been labelled as psychotics, schizophrenics, and hysterics.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:12 / 20.06.06
This is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, I'm afraid. Whilst I don't totally reject the idea that there may be some connection between 'shamanic' (how I loathe the way that word gets thrown around) abilities and trance states, and epilepsy, I find lazy, ill-examined assumptions about this possible relationship increasingly icky.

To get all militant epo about this for a sec: Any unquestioned assumption about a disabling neurological condition is a Bad Thing. For instance, I mentioned getting turned down for jobs that I'm perfectly capable of doing because of the way that the "videogames cause seizures" meme has infected popular consciousness. I find the "epileptics are natural shamans/witches ect" meme equally toxic because it others people with epilepsy, pops them into a nicely fuzzy category at one remove from the main body of society. It is used to diminish the real suffering experienced by people with severe forms of seizure disorder; I've actually had people say things like "Aren't you lucky? You're a natural shaman!" My condition isn't very serious but my definition of "lucky" would tend to include "not prone to keeling over and waking up with a bitten tongue and wet pants."

On the flipside, the same lazy thinking can be used to dismiss the experiences of magicians and mystics: "Oh, they're all epileptic, migraneous, psychotic or on drugs." Whilst I remain open to the possibility that the things I've experienced in my magical and spiritual life are the result of some neuron misfiring somewhere, I'm reasonably certain that they are not.

Right, moving on: Not that kind of aura, Iggy.

In a previous post, I mentioned the aura stage of epilepsy. Iggy wrote: "Do you see auras?" Unfortunately this tends to reinforce my impression of him as someone who hasn't done sufficient reading on the subject under discussion. I would have thought that someone interested in a possible connection between magic, spirituality or energy work, and epilepsy, would have come across the term "aura" as it relates to the condition.

The aura stage of the fit is a sort of mini-seizure, manifesting as a collection of perceptual and other disturbances. These can include sudden mood changes, flashing lights, odd smells and mental confusion, and function as warning signs for the epileptic. They can also occur in isolation, without being followed by a grand mal. In my case I often smell burning leaves or feathers; very rarely, I get more extreme perceptual distortion that I can only describe as being like having all the boundaries between myself and the Universe at large broken down. That's not happened in a while though.

I don't know where my epileptic focus is.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:30 / 20.06.06
In my case I often smell burning leaves or feathers

Well that proves it!

What could be more shamanic than burning leaves and feathers!!





Sorry.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
08:36 / 20.06.06
Ok Mordant.
 
 
Quantum
09:01 / 20.06.06
And yes, i'm amazed by the thing of the akasha. What's the problem? Ignosis

The problem is, so what? The Akasha is associated with the ear, so that means music is the way to the soul? We should use our ears to whack the buttons on Doom to experience the overmind? I'm amazed by the thing of the akasha too, what's it got to do with what you're saying?
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
09:10 / 20.06.06
Read my second post.
 
 
Quantum
11:20 / 20.06.06
This post? Where you say the Zelda theme is a modern musical mandala like Mozart that increases brain plasticity? I'm still not clear how that relates to Akasa, or magic, please elaborate.
Perhaps you're saying the Mozart effect on mathematical ability could be replicated using gaming technology and used to enhance, erm, the electrical activity of our central nervous system to achieve a democratisation of the spiritual experience?
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
11:37 / 20.06.06
Ehm, yes Quantum, and all of you have reason: all of this is a nonsense.

I need to develop more good manners if i want to be heared.

Thanks for pointing it, and forget all i've said. It's nonsense (anyway, checkout Hempel's work. It's ... well ... music for the soul.
 
 
Quantum
12:07 / 20.06.06
Couldn't you just elaborate a bit more and help us understand what you're trying to say? That would be better.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:11 / 20.06.06
I need to develop more good manners if i want to be heared.

Thread rot - but we might as well get this out of the way to try to contain the problem in this thread.

It's not manners that you need to develop, it's the ability to actually make a clear point with a structured argument behind it that you have thought through. What you keep doing at the moment is throwing out a series of random ideas that you personally see some meaningful connection between, but not really explaining to us what that connection is or what you mean by making it.

For instance, all we know is that you see some vague link between epileptic seizures, shamanism, the Mozart effect, the music off Zelda, electricity, Chi Kung and videogames. But you haven't elaborated on any of it convincingly or shown any evidence that you've done a basic amount of research into half of the things you are weaving together. Without presenting a solid argument yourself, it gives people two options for how to respond: We can either take everything you say at face value and unquestioningly absorb your pet notion so as not to hurt your feelings, or else we have to do the research for you and try to flesh out what you seem to be struggling to say. Since the links are not obvious and at best tangential, this latter process will tend to be critical rather than supportive.

Now you could argue that everybody is being mean, and we should allow you to speculate as much as you like because you are just playing around with ideas; but - speaking for myself - that would not be the sort of barbelith I would be too interested in reading or contributing to. I like the Temple because you have to really think your ideas through before you post them, or else you get ripped apart by the magical lions. This is a Good Thing.

I would suggest that, if you want your experiences on barbelith to be fun and enjoyable, you put a bit more effort into what you contribute. Nobody here has a problem with you personally, because you personally are not actually here – only your posts are, and it is the quality of your posts that you are judged by. Quality posts are well researched, fully thought out, clearly expressed, coherently argued, convincingly made and open to revision in the light of constructive peer criticism. Your posts aren't currently scoring so well on any of those fronts, therefore people are giving you a tough time in the hope that you will sort it out.

Sort it out.
 
 
Z. deScathach
10:07 / 23.06.06
I find this interesting: Journey to Wild Divine

Yes it's fluffy. Yes it's new agey. Way too fluffy and new agey for me to purchase, so I have no actual experience with it, but it does point to some possibilities. It's notable that it utilizes biofeedback, I see no reason why that feedback could not be of a deeper level. There have been many studies that point to video games as increasing hand eye coordination, but I'm not really sure how that relates directly to magic. I'd bet that any video game that could be utilized magically would probably need some sort of biofeedback in order to link with the player. There was a thread a long time back about the use of magnetic fields in close proximity to the brain in order to produce altered states of consciousness. Now that could produce an interesting biofeedback mechanism. This is your brain...... This is your brain on magnetic fields.....

So to some extent, the use of video games to entrain brain states is already going on. What that means is that over time it will probably become more sophisticated, (well, if people see money in it). In this game, the imagery is utilized to entrain the states, but certainly there's no reason why specific states could not trigger certain imagery.
 
 
Z. deScathach
10:13 / 23.06.06
BTW, the thread referred to above on patterned magnetic fields and their use in altering consciousness is here.
 
 
jihadreflection
10:18 / 24.06.06
I find that playing certain computer games is a good way to practice Zazen.
If you're very good at a certain game and you play it lots. (In my case super mario brothers), then you can do a whole level by reflex.
If you retain awarness while entering that level of reflex then you're Zen.
It's like say, Zen archery, only with a computer game.

Also. I find computer games fun. For me that's the best type of spirituality.
 
 
Bruno
11:10 / 24.06.06
I find that running over cats with my car is a good way to practice Zazen.
If you're very good at driving and you do it lots. (In my case a Seat Ibiza), then you can squash several in a row by reflex.
If you retain awarness while entering that level of reflex then you're Zen.
It's like say, Zen archery, only you run over cats.

Also. I find running over cats fun. For me that's the best type of spirituality.
 
 
jihadreflection
11:49 / 24.06.06
Cat crushing can be pretty Zen as well.
In relation to computer games specifically. It's an area where lots of people spend a lot of time doing a repetative task. If cat crushing was practised with such devotion, then I would surely do that. It's just last time I did it the RSPCA tried to fine me. I replied that I was just practising my spirituality but they fined me anyway.
 
 
Z. deScathach
09:51 / 25.06.06
Woooops! Missed the above links to electromagnetism! Sorry about that!
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:38 / 25.06.06
I have been trying to figure out what keeps people attracted to the trance state induced, and why others see a potential with it, so i have been doing alittle playing, mainly this free game Mono I am beginning to see what is being said, there is an excitatory buzz to playing and a growing appreciation of the repetition, i have been playing gun roar and torus trooper as well and noticing similar effects, all these games are based on very old models of game play, its much easier for me at least to get trance induction this way, i find it much more difficult with for example first person shooters or third person sims, can anyone postulate why that might be?
 
  

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