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Getting Back into the Game

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20:18 / 04.07.06

Thanks for yr input folks, and, for the record, I don't use drugs anymore, and I have never used pot at all. Hallucinogenics/psychedelics were my drug of choice. I certainly DON'T have a repulsion to nature, I just don't feel particularly drawn to it, on a spiritual level. I guess that what i'm trying to achieve, magically (see, got it right this time...), is a sense of 'otherness', for want of a better description. I have been in magical situations in the past, in which I felt the touch of other, non-human, consciousness...and I enjoyed that contact very much, I have to say. I've never felt particularly connected to the human world, and people in general..in fact, I tend to find prolonged contact with people to be toxic.

I think that right now, I feel very disconnected, and apart from everything, and I feel it most in the part of me that 'feels' magic. If that makes sense to anyone other than me?

As for my laziness and level of commitment, I think I exaggerate my laziness somewhat, mostly out of disgust for it. I am quite capable of focus, BUT I find, increasingly, pressures of work and marriage take up a lot of my time. Finding time for spiritual matters, let alone music, is hard.

trouser the trouserian

04:36 / 05.07.06

futilitarian

I have been in magical situations in the past, in which I felt the touch of other, non-human, consciousness...and I enjoyed that contact very much

erm, plenty of non-human consciousness in 'nature'... rats, insects, trees, crystals etc.,

08:48 / 05.07.06

I guess that what i'm trying to achieve, magically (see, got it right this time...), is a sense of 'otherness', for want of a better description. I have been in magical situations in the past, in which I felt the touch of other, non-human, consciousness...and I enjoyed that contact very much, I have to say. I've never felt particularly connected to the human world, and people in general..in fact, I tend to find prolonged contact with people to be toxic.

To be honest, I think it would be infinitely more productive for you to not indulge this self-indulgent personal narrative any further by yearning after "the other", whatever that means. What did you enjoy very much about contact with "non-human consciousness"? The license to avoid interacting with the "human world" and bolstering the ego up with fantasies of your outsider self? It's one of the most basic pitfalls that people getting into magic can fall into, and one of the biggest root causes of our planet's ever-growing surplus of rubbish magicians.

You are a human being and exist within nature. You really, really, really need to get to grips with that, find your peace and empowerment within it, and resolve the internal issues that make you consider contact with other people to be toxic - before you start chatting up celestial space squids from Venus. If you don't get the mysteries of being a living, breathing, fucking, fighting, eating, loving, surviving, growing human being sorted out – as your foundation in magic – then there is nothing of any value to be gained by consorting with non-human intelligences. It will just make you more isolated, more ineffectual, more uncomfortable with yourself, and basically just turn you into another ten-a-penny occult waste of space contemplating your own cosmic arsehole while the world burns around your ears and mine.

That's the best advice I can give you. Take it or leave it.

11:18 / 05.07.06

Spot the flaw here:

I've never felt particularly connected to the human world, and people in general..in fact, I tend to find prolonged contact with people to be toxic.

Followed by:

I think that right now, I feel very disconnected

Hmmm.

12:14 / 05.07.06

Futilitarian...

I can think of four magically charged letters that may help you out

12:45 / 05.07.06

Thats a serious suggestion by the way, Futilarian. Not me being facetious. Why not try and find out why you find contact with other people toxic sometimes. Do some charity work perhaps. One day a week in a charity shop. Treat it as a magical act. Record every detail in your diary. How do you feel with the customers, the people you work with etc. What feelings does it bring up? How do you act with them? After a while maybe try and adjust your behaviour and do the opposite. See what happens.

And if you are worried about the lack of non-human intelligences in this practice, don't. I mean, have you seen some of the old ladies working in charity shops!

20:49 / 05.07.06

A lot of hostility going on here. Thanks a million, people. I have no friends that I can discuss anything in this vein with, and I'm struggling to regain direction. Can the superior attitudes. I guess I'm not wanted around here. Thanks for your surprisingly christian attitudes.

21:03 / 05.07.06

In what sense "Christian"?

I think you've got some good advice there, between the lines.

And seriously, speaking from my own experience I'm convinced that chasing unspecified "non-human" weirdness rather than engaging with the mystery of what's around you is a dead end - and part of these mysteries is other people and nature. Why not try the book out that I linked to above and see where it gets you? What have you got to lose?

21:23 / 05.07.06

A point I might add is that some of the themes you've posted above are quite common tropes among occultists, and IMO deserve challenge and critque. This may well make me sound self-righteous (oh well, won't be the first time) but do you not think what you've posted deserves criticism? If we just simply confirmed what you'd said and offered some simple, non-specific pats on the back, what would be the value in that? Things that we find disagreeable and challenging on first hearing often hold some truths for us.

22:32 / 05.07.06

Well, i guess the 'christian attitude' might refer to my mentioning of the YMCA. My point and ideas and advice still stand though.

Maybe what you are looking for really is somthing that challenges you. And that is what magic should really be about IMHO. Hence all the talk about confronting the 'toxic people' through a charity shop situation. If you aren't fully engaging in what you do and it isn't turning your life on its head or at least revealing some good shit about yourself or the world you live in, then, as MC mentions upthread, all you're doing is fucking about with a hobby. Like you say, sigils are easy for you, so why keep on doing them?

You say you feel you have to 'shit or get of the pot'.

We'll fucking shit or not. But don't fucking whinge about it.

Comments like these...

Can the superior attitudes. I guess I'm not wanted around here. Thanks for your surprisingly christian attitudes.

Are not going to get you anywhere.

Yes You are wanted around here and everyone is interested it the suff you have to contribute. Don't be so thin skinned! The superior attitude is only people responding to what you have written. If people have comments on what you have posted they will post them. End of.

So anyway, chill out!

My advice, apart from the Charity Shop stuff, is get heavily into a divination system. Morning ritual with it every day.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:19 / 06.07.06

futilitarian, calm down. No-one wants you to leave, we just want you to be the best fecking magician you can be. Okay? We're on your side.

If you were comfortable where you are, that would be one thing. Thre's nothing wrong IMO with magic-as-a-hobby, provided you're aware that's where you are and you're happy to keep going at that level of engagment. You, obviously, aren't. Like so many before you, you've got stuck on sigil workings, even though you evidently find them uninspiring.

If people seem to be coming down on you a bit harder than you expect, it's because some of what you're describing--feeling disconnected from the human world, feeling disconnected from 'nature'--well, it's pretty much texbook stuff. Some people never get over it; their magical practice becomes a way of excusing and shoring up isolating and damaging patterns of behaviour. There's nothing wrong with being a bit of a loner or a homebody, but the language you're using to describe the way interacting with other people makes you feel suggests that something less healthy is going on.

There's a heck of a lot of people out there who never get past this point. They never tackle their social issues because it's so easy to make up a comforting little story about how the mundane world oppresses Crystal Children/how you're a lone predator stalking unseen through the mindless herds ect. They never connect with the living world because that's all treehugging hippy crap. And they never break out of an essentially masturbation-based practice because charging sigils is what magic REALLY is, underneath all the superstitious jargon created to blind the sheeple to the truth. Boring, solipsistic, self-indulgent and--here's the kicker--not even having a good time.

What got you into magic in the first place? What was it that drew you in? How did it make you feel? What would you give to feel that way again?

What is really important to you?

08:48 / 06.07.06

What they said. With a side order of *head-desk*

13:56 / 06.07.06

People are a planetary epidemic, better learn to love them.

So, getting back into the game- I'm going back to first principles to get a fresh perspective. I'm sorting practical obstacles out first, then establishing a regular practice, then tackling something I don't know much about, probably the runes I suspect but we'll see what crops up. A deliberate neophyte state of mind will help me I think, backtracking to a state of excited wonder and enthusiasm again. It's not as though I'm going to forget what I already know but it's like creative work, when you've been looking at a big project too long you get blind to it and your judgement becomes unreliable. Time to do something else and come back to it later methinks once my unconscious has had a chance to digest.

14:58 / 12.07.06

I just picked up a copy of City Magick by Christopher Penczak and I plan to work through it just like I was a neophyte.

That, I feel, is the best way to approach these things.

18:30 / 12.07.06

Indeed. Apart from the fact that City Magick is a really shit book and doesnt give the impression that the author even worked through it like a Neophyte, so much as came up with a bunch of ideas and slung them together under a marketable slogan. No sense of urban magic actually lived there at all.

18:50 / 12.07.06

Maybe that's another good way to get back into the game, get a book and follow the exercises diligently even if it's crap, then work out why it's not doing the job and use that as a basis to look elsewhere for something meaty. Good exercise in willpower at least to pursue something you think is rubbish, and in mental acuity to pick it to bits thoroughly.
Perhaps I should get a Ravenwolf book.
No. Perhaps not. Forget I said anything, move along, nothing to see... what was I thinking...

18:52 / 12.07.06

Sorry for being so dismissive, but I really didnt like that book. There are a few decent ideas in it, but it all seemed so superficial without much sense that the author had really lived it in any degree of depth. It just felt like a collection of ideas, really. There wasn't much sense of lived experience of connecting to the magic of cities behind it, and much of it fell totally flat for me. You would be better off throwing it in the bin and just walking your city until it teaches you its secrets and its magic - which it will, if you are smart enough to figure out how to listen.

19:06 / 12.07.06

I understand what you're saying Gypsy and, to a degree, I agree. I mean the first exercise is using a candle to aid meditation. I'm sorry, a candle? No flickering neon signs or sparklers?

Anyway this is me working back up from basics so I should be able to sidestep any pratfalls as long as I let the more experienced me look over my shoulder as I go.

As for just walking the city with my magic head on waiting for it to enlighten me... I try not to wear my magic head for too long at any one time just in case I go a little doolally. I mean crossing a street in magic mode when I'm not in tune with the enviroment? A one way trip to casualty I think; "oh look a truck, not to worry I'll just fly over it..." >splat<

21:39 / 12.07.06

Perhaps I should get a Ravenwolf book.

I've got a Ravenwolf book of Prosperity Spells that I found surprisingly helpful...go ahead, laugh all you want.

I mean crossing a street in magic mode when I'm not in tune with the enviroment? A one way trip to casualty I think; "oh look a truck, not to worry I'll just fly over it..."

How about putting yourself in a magic mode in which you're MORE in tune with your environment? I've been taking the long way home lately, observing all the little details of my surroundings, sometimes even making up little stories about them (once again, laugh all you like). I marvel at how carefully some people maintain their homes and gardens, and at nature's apparent success in subverting the machinations of humanity. I don't know if it's magic or not, but it is entertaining and even inspiring.

21:47 / 12.07.06

As for just walking the city with my magic head on waiting for it to enlighten me... I try not to wear my magic head for too long at any one time just in case I go a little doolally.

I think you're kind of screwed as far as city magic goes then... If you can't tune into a city.

I mean crossing a street in magic mode when I'm not in tune with the enviroment?

Why does "magic mode" have to mean not being in tune with your environment? For me, magic mode IS being in tune with my environment.

22:47 / 12.07.06

a Ravenwolf book of Prosperity Spells that I found surprisingly helpful

Well if there's one thing she knows it's making money. I found it to be a collection of folklore which is better sourced from books on folklore, but I did find some interesting stuff from it. A wise man can learn from a fool and all that.

About crossing the road- what Gypsy said. You're screwed if your magic head takes you *away* from the world, eh.

23:24 / 12.07.06

sometimes it is best to approach a City*, even a familiar one, as a stranger. Not just any stranger but one you desire as a friend or maybe lover. Whatever approach gets you to let the place show you who they are including all the little secrets, all the dirty little corners, proud glories, and soft spoken moments of history.

Like any relationship of note, it takes time and the courtship phase can be intoxicating.

I used walking at all hours in the last big city I lived in. Following the Emerald Necklace of parks, the looping alleyways, making offerings to the wild animals and the wilder humans, and learning just how the subway was full of surreal dreams. In return for paying attention my awareness of the City's moods increased. I was able to know when to avoid certain places or when I had to be at the riverside at sunrise, only to be just in time to catch a piper.

For me the magic was the relationship, the sense of being welcome, and to some extent feeling like the City had my back. There are places where I shared epic personal moments with the City and those bonds still resonate when I visit. We remember each other even though we have changed.

*or any place really.

07:52 / 13.07.06

I should elucidate. When I stay in a magical mindset, ie "magic mode" or "magic head", for too long I become slightly delusional. I've seen it happen to others first hand and heard second and third hand accounts of it too. It's the risk we all take with our Work. We all drive ourselves a little insane every time we do this stuff; the risk is of that insanity sticking around when we finish. I mean look at what a magical perspective entails: Being aware of the interconectiveness between all things, reading the messages in the roadside flowers and hearing the hidden language in lark song. We associate ourselves with mythic imagery and take on aspects of their stories. We craft ourselves new narratives and wear them like a second skin. These are the behaviours of schitzophrenics. Anytime someone starts doing things that "crazy people" do they they have effectively become crazy themselves.

Fortunately for me all I become is a little manic but even that can be dangerous. I certainly don't want to spend a day, week, or however long, wandering around a city constantly examining it from a magical perspective. That will put me under a bus; I'll be too busy gossiping with the gargoyles or something when the material world asserts itself painfully.

Magical perspective is something to wear lightly, like sunglasses, to put on and off at will. However its also addictive and addiction has its dangers.

I'm somewhat dissapointed that I feel the need to explain this here in Barbelith. I thought it was pretty basic stuff.

08:19 / 13.07.06

Yes, it's basic stuff in the sense that: being able to navigate that - to walk between worlds with deftness and grace without losing the plot and ending up insane or under a bus - is one of the key skills of magic. If you can't manage that, you have a big problem - especially if you want to get anywhere beyond the beginners steps. If you have trouble in this area, I would suggest practice and experimentation. Nobody is asking you to go walkabout for a week or a month, or even a day to start off with. An hour would do. Just spend an hour or two a week walking your city and trying to tune into it, to listen to its voice, form a relationship with it, ask it to teach you its secrets and its magic.

All you need to explain to people here is why you're making unconvincing excuses about why you are unable to attempt something that is fairly basic and fundamental to city-based magic.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:29 / 13.07.06

PlanetNiles, I know your fears of losing your sanity are real and genuine to you, but they're not very well founded. If anything, a healthy magical practice can help one maintain a grip on reality through various means, not least by allowing an accepting but critical approach to experiences that lie outside of what is generally considered 'normal.'

08:42 / 13.07.06

Magical perspective is something to wear lightly, like sunglasses, to put on and off at will.

I disagree completely. William Blake described it as a kind of double vision, seeing the mundane and the magical simultaneously. Not to put on and off like spectacles.

However its also addictive and addiction has its dangers.

Sorry, what do you mean it's addictive? Like crack is addictive or like food is addictive?

I'm somewhat dissapointed that I feel the need to explain this here in Barbelith. I thought it was pretty basic stuff.

I'm somewhat disappointed you feel that your perspective is the one true objective fact. Your idea of 'pretty basic stuff' is my idea of a practice based on fear and misunderstanding.

09:27 / 13.07.06

Yes, it's basic stuff in the sense that: being able to navigate that - to walk between worlds with deftness and grace without losing the plot and ending up insane or under a bus - is one of the key skills of magic. If you can't manage that, you have a big problem - especially if you want to get anywhere beyond the beginners steps. If you have trouble in this area, I would suggest practice and experimentation. Nobody is asking you to go walkabout for a week or a month, or even a day to start off with. An hour would do. Just spend an hour or two a week walking your city and trying to tune into it, to listen to its voice, form a relationship with it, ask it to teach you its secrets and its magic.

I've already been doing that; I just felt that I needed a framework in which to work. Also I'm now over five hundred miles from the last city I had any real relationship with and I havn't done any real Work, short a couple of decent hearth wards, in over four years. Touching base and getting back to basics seemed a good idea.

You did seem to be suggesting that I bin the book I'd just bought to provide a framework and plug myself straight into the undercity and get it to teach me directly. Sorry no. Slow and steady steps with that City MagicK book to aid in progression.

All you need to explain to people here is why you're making unconvincing excuses about why you are unable to attempt something that is fairly basic and fundamental to city-based magic.

No excuses, I'm just explaining why I'm not about to go out and do anything dangerous or stupid. I have small children and so I have to proceed with caution for their sake if nothing else. Fools rush in and all that.

One of the reasons I bought that (admittedly pretty useless) book was that the City Magic meme is fairly new to me and I'm working on a project, mundane with strong magical overtones, that involves urban magic. I thought that reading up other people's thoughts on the concept would be wise. Barbelith has already helped me in that regard (which reminds me: I need to go halves on a sacrifice to Ixat) but didn't provide much in the way of practical guidance. City MagicK has already given me insights despite its relative simplicity; knowing what one shouldn't do is useful in and of itself.

09:38 / 13.07.06

I have that Penczak book myself and quite like it as armchair reading, it was the first time I'd come across some of the urban shaman concepts too (skyscraper=axis mundi for example) but I did find it to be less rooted in experiential practice than I prefer.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:11 / 13.07.06

knowing what one shouldn't do is useful in and of itself.

Indeed, but is knowing what Christopher Penczak says you should and shouldn't do the same thing?

10:16 / 13.07.06

I told you to do that, and I still think that you should because the only way to learn anything of value about a City is to talk to it directly. I don't understand why you seem to think that Christopher Penczak or barbelith can tell you more about city-based magic than the City itself. Walk the streets. Tune into it. Learn it's secrets and it's magic over time. It's the only way.

I'm also really failing to grasp where the holy living terror is coming from of doing this? Why do you think that tuning directly into the City is going to put your life and your sanity at risk? What's that all about? What is "dangerous and stupid" about trying to form a living relationship with the geographical space where you live?

If you are magically in-tune with the City and responsive to its currents, its wildlife, its nature, its moods, its comings and goings - you will be MORE likely to avoid any dangers, not less likely. You seem to be operating from the assumption that interacting magically with a City means going into some detached "astral" head-space where you lose touch with what is going on around you. I'm not really sure where you're getting that from. Tuning into a City involves being hyper-aware of everything going on around you, all of the things that most people miss in their frantic rushings to-and-from, seeing the things that everyone else overlooks, knowing about secret spots, places of power, being responsive to what is going on. Your fear of this stuff seems more born of ignorance and faulty assumptions about what other people are trying to convey to you, than anything supportable.

Here's some notes on the kind of thing I'm talking about:

worldtree.tribe.net

10:50 / 13.07.06

One trouble I have with city magic is that I have to ignore the obvious messages that are repeated everywhere like LOOK RIGHT and STOP and adverts and such. Luckily in Brighton we have loads of great graffiti and posters and old, old structures, but there's always the danger the city will seem to be saying NO EXIT every time.

11:57 / 13.07.06

Those things tend to fade out with practice, I find. It's all part of learning the language, like initially getting hung up on certain aspects of punctuation in a foreign language, that after a while become second nature to you and you stop having to think about it so much.

13:27 / 13.07.06

Thanks for the link Gypsy.

13:39 / 13.07.06

Hold up a second.

Q - One trouble I have with city magic is that I have to ignore the obvious messages that are repeated everywhere like LOOK RIGHT and STOP and adverts and such.

GL - Those things tend to fade out with practice, I find.

I'm understanding you two as meaning that the ads and instructional stuff is unimportant to the understanding of a City. Why is this so? I've been operating under the impression that these things form a part of the "skin" of the City and as such are important.

Unless you're saying these things are the like "makeup" that the City puts on it's "skin". And by that, I mean easily removable and non-essential to the true character of the City.

13:44 / 13.07.06

That's not really what I'm saying. Sometimes a "Stop" or "No Exit" sign might be important to a communication, other times it might just be background noise. Over time, you learn to filter signal from noise so that you don't necessarily need to "turn left" every time you see a sign that says turn left, as you are involved in a dialogue with the City that's a lot deeper, more subtle and intuitive than just walking around obeying every written surface instruction that you see.

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